Is specializing overrated?

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not really
 
no
 
i changed my mind.

yes.
 
it's not if you really have an interest in the specialty. it is when you enter dental school knowing nothing about dentistry whatsoever.

personally, i have no interest in specializing.. but that doesn't mean that i think it's overrated. there are just aspects of entering GP I more appealing (pt relationships, business, less schooling, less stressful d-school experience, same earning potential, etc.)

jb!🙂
 
Yes, but I don't want to specialize.
 
I don't know if you can get a good answer from dental students for your question, you should probably ask the specialists themelves!
 
JMJRDH1 said:
I don't know if you can get a good answer from dental students for your question, you should probably ask the specialists themelves!
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The reason why I asked this question is because I have talked with a lot of dental students that look at general dentistry like it is something you settle for if you are not able to specialize. It reminds me of the idea some hold to that dental students are medical school rejects. I just wanted to see if you guys bump into this a lot.
 
I don't know any general dentists who wish they would have specialized. You are looking at this from a students perspective and not a real world perspective. Specializing is for those who want to limit their practice to one area. I don't know how a dental student can decide to specialize without actually knowing what they are getting into. There are so many things a general dentist can do and you can design your practice to focus on one specialty. I have a specialty practice within my general practice and it works well.
 
ldsmbhc said:
The reason why I asked this question is because I have talked with a lot of dental students that look at general dentistry like it is something you settle for if you are not able to specialize. It reminds me of the idea some hold to that dental students are medical school rejects. I just wanted to see if you guys bump into this a lot.
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I hope you're wrong just out of the simple fact that only 20% of students specialize and less than 10% of dentists are in the "prestigious" specialties. I hope most dentists are not disappointed with their choice.
 
diagnodent said:
I don't know any general dentists who wish they would have specialized.
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I have talked to quite a few GPs who say they would have liked to specialize. They comment on how hard it is to be a GP. In general, you have to work harder to make the money of a specialist. Interestingly I have met several GPs who said if they could go back they would specialize in oral and maxillofacial surgery. I've also met periodontists who said this. 🙄

There are many GPs out there who decide to apply to endo and ortho after being in the working world for a few years.

The good news is you can try out life as a GP before deciding to specialize. This can be as an AEGD, GPR, or just plain private practice. The only specialty you will have a hard time getting into after being in private practice for a few years is oral and maxillofacial surgery. I don't know why but that seems to be the case.
 
It's funny that they mention that general dentists specialize later on because they want to make the money of a specialist. The reality is that if they specialize they won't make additional money. The problem is with dentists as a whole. They don't have business sense or common sense, most dentists are stupid It's very easy to make 200k+ after 5 years of being a general dentist if you are smart as a business person.


I've heard from many older dentists that advertising is wrong. I have radio ads amongst others and make close to 500k/year and am 6 years out of school and run a ffs office.
 
A lot if not a majority of us started out in undergrad wanting to be MD's. But as the limitation of gpa and race sets in, we switch to dentistry and maybe further on down to optometry and then lab tech. All my friends who opened their own general practice right after graduation are doing extraordinarily well without the need to specialize. I am glad I opened my general practice right after graduation and make a lot of money early so I can retire early before the socialists take over our government next year.
 
Daurang said:
A lot if not a majority of us started out in undergrad wanting to be MD's. But as the limitation of gpa and race sets in, we switch to dentistry and maybe further on down to optometry and then lab tech. All my friends who opened their own general practice right after graduation are doing extraordinarily well without the need to specialize. I am glad I opened my general practice right after graduation and make a lot of money early so I can retire early before the socialists take over our government next year.
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Whoa.
 
diagnodent said:
It's funny that they mention that general dentists specialize later on because they want to make the money of a specialist. The reality is that if they specialize they won't make additional money. The problem is with dentists as a whole. They don't have business sense or common sense, most dentists are stupid It's very easy to make 200k+ after 5 years of being a general dentist if you are smart as a business person.


I've heard from many older dentists that advertising is wrong. I have radio ads amongst others and make close to 500k/year and am 6 years out of school and run a ffs office.
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The problem with SDN is posts like these tend to send the wrong message to predents. I'm not bashing you, as I am sure you are being honest, however, predents must know that this is not the norm. If anyone goes into a GP practice expecting to make 400-500K, they will be disappointed. How much you make is directly related to the amount you work, the area that you practice and the philosophy of your practice. If you run a high-end fee for service practice in an upscale area with an abundance of patients and little competition, having a practice like diagnodent is very possible, but the reality is these situations are few and far between.

Most specialize because they truly have a passion for a specific facet of dentistry, others specialize to make the most money they can. The person who choses the latter will undoubtedly be miserable in life as they do something they may not enjoy to try to make a lot of money, when there is little separation between the high grossing GP's and the average specialist's income. It just scares me when I hear so many people talking about going into dentistry because they can make a lot of money, you have to enjoy what you are doing as well or your patients and YOU will suffer!
 
Daurang said:
A lot if not a majority of us started out in undergrad wanting to be MD's. But as the limitation of gpa and race sets in, we switch to dentistry and maybe further on down to optometry and then lab tech. All my friends who opened their own general practice right after graduation are doing extraordinarily well without the need to specialize. I am glad I opened my general practice right after graduation and make a lot of money early so I can retire early before the socialists take over our government next year.
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What are the limitations of race that prevent you from being an MD? I am calling major BS on your statement.
 
the main reason people specialize is to make more money while working less, period. all the other reasons such as, 'they love the specific area of dentistry' comes as a distant second. you specialize to make more money while working less, while also liking the area you're specializing in since you'll be doing it for the rest of your life. i, on the other hand, rather practice as a GP just because it fits my future plans. and like someone else said, the earning potential is the same whether you're a GP or a specialist. the difference comes in the amount of work you do, and how you do it. i just love how people think dentistry is just a money-for-all profession. all the poor dentists thought that.

so to answer the original poster's question, specializing is not overrated.
 
vize said:
the main reason people specialize is to make more money while working less, period. all the other reasons such as, 'they love the specific area of dentistry' comes as a distant second. you specialize to make more money while working less, while also liking the area you're specializing in since you'll be doing it for the rest of your life.
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I couldn't disagree more. I couldn't fathom doing removable and fixed pros. I am passionate about pedo and love going to work in the morning. I'm not making squat as a resident, and I still love going to work. It's not because of my future income potential, but because I love my job. I would not feel the same as a GP or in another specialty. It's pretty silly of you to generalize people. The only person's motivation you can accurately discuss on here or anywhere is your own.
 
People tend to be happy with the decisions they make, its a matter of human psychology. We either conclude that some residency was worth it or feel glad that we didn't waste our time and effort as a means of justifying ourselves and feeling good about it. So my advice is to do what you want to do right now and ignore what other people think. Since your reflective self assessment is more than likely to be positive in the future, at least that way you can enjoy what you are doing right now, which is more than a lot of people can say for themselves.
 
capisce? said:
I couldn't disagree more. I couldn't fathom doing removable and fixed pros. I am passionate about pedo and love going to work in the morning. I'm not making squat as a resident, and I still love going to work. It's not because of my future income potential, but because I love my job. I would not feel the same as a GP or in another specialty. It's pretty silly of you to generalize people. The only person's motivation you can accurately discuss on here or anywhere is your own.
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so if pedo wasn't the HOT dental specialty that it is, and was making the same as general dentists, you'd still do it? i doubt it. also, i wasn't talking about the process of residency that attracts people. residency is looked at by many as just a means to an end of obtaining more money while working less.
 
capisce? said:
I couldn't disagree more. I couldn't fathom doing removable and fixed pros. I am passionate about pedo and love going to work in the morning. I'm not making squat as a resident, and I still love going to work. It's not because of my future income potential, but because I love my job. I would not feel the same as a GP or in another specialty. It's pretty silly of you to generalize people. The only person's motivation you can accurately discuss on here or anywhere is your own.
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Well said. Likewise....except not pedo. 😀 (I only like the good kids)
 
vize said:
so if pedo wasn't the HOT dental specialty that it is, and was making the same as general dentists, you'd still do it? i doubt it. also, i wasn't talking about the process of residency that attracts people. residency is looked at by many as just a means to an end of obtaining more money while working less.
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OK then what about the very un-hot perio or pros specialty. Very low on the specialty scale and the pay is slightly more than GP and you work less. I strongly disagree with your statements. I'd still rather do perio than be a GP even if I made exactly the same money as a GP. Some do it for more money, but I think the majority do it because they find that specific area of dentistry more appealing. Personally I would dread having to go to work everyday knowing that i would be adjusting prongs on a RPD or doing endo or taking crown impressions etc. I did enjoy restorative. Specializing is only over rated if you don't like the specialty that you're in. you are right, the earning potentials are similar for GP and specialists, but earning potentials and actual earnings are two very different things. on average the acutual earnings are significantly lower for GPs. The average specialist makes around 100K more per year.
 
vize said:
so if pedo wasn't the HOT dental specialty that it is, and was making the same as general dentists, you'd still do it? i doubt it. also, i wasn't talking about the process of residency that attracts people. residency is looked at by many as just a means to an end of obtaining more money while working less.
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You make no sense. Okay, you win. I went into pedo becaus it's the "HOT dental specialty".

In fact, that was my entrance essay. I would like to do pedo because it's the HOT specialty.
 
vize said:
so if pedo wasn't the HOT dental specialty that it is
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zoolander_face.jpg


Pedo...it's the HOT dental specialty
 
ldsmbhc said:
The reason why I asked this question is because I have talked with a lot of dental students that look at general dentistry like it is something you settle for if you are not able to specialize. It reminds me of the idea some hold to that dental students are medical school rejects. I just wanted to see if you guys bump into this a lot.
Click to expand...

From day 1 in dental school ~100% of the student body wants to specialize. By the senior year, reality to sets in.
 
doc toothache said:
From day 1 in dental school ~100% of the student body wants to specialize. By the senior year, reality to sets in.
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Uh, make that 99.9%. I have never, ever, even for a sec had any desire to specialize. What I want from my career as a dentist is to be found in general practice. That being said, good luck to all the rest that do want to specialize, with me out of the competition, it is better odds for all! 😀
 
doc toothache said:
From day 1 in dental school ~100% of the student body wants to specialize. By the senior year, reality to sets in.
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wow. a pretty bold statement coming from the SDN stats dude. make that 99.8%... i'm with johntara.

jb!🙂
 
doc toothache said:
From day 1 in dental school ~100% of the student body wants to specialize. By the senior year, reality to sets in.
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Not sure about this one. I talk with a lot of dental students and a great many of them come into dental school wanting to do general practice. Actually, I was one of them.
 
ldsmbhc said:
The reason why I asked this question is because I have talked with a lot of dental students that look at general dentistry like it is something you settle for if you are not able to specialize. It reminds me of the idea some hold to that dental students are medical school rejects. I just wanted to see if you guys bump into this a lot.
Click to expand...
I get this all the time. After I do a great endo people ask me If I want to specialize in endo. After completing full mouth reconstruction with many fixed units people ask me if I want to go into prosth. I just tell them why should I specialize if I can do the same thing as a GP. If General was a specialty I would choose it. As students we always thing of going farther, but this is a great time to take a deep breath and think about what will make you happy.
 
johntara04 said:
Uh, make that 99.9%. I have never, ever, even for a sec had any desire to specialize. What I want from my career as a dentist is to be found in general practice. That being said, good luck to all the rest that do want to specialize, with me out of the competition, it is better odds for all! 😀
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jackbauer! said:
wow. a pretty bold statement coming from the SDN stats dude. make that 99.8%... i'm with johntara.jb!🙂
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drhobie7 said:
Not sure about this one. I talk with a lot of dental students and a great many of them come into dental school wanting to do general practice. Actually, I was one of them.
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Ok 99.7% as of last count.
 
backaction said:
OK then what about the very un-hot perio or pros specialty. Very low on the specialty scale and the pay is slightly more than GP and you work less. I strongly disagree with your statements. I'd still rather do perio than be a GP even if I made exactly the same money as a GP. Some do it for more money, but I think the majority do it because they find that specific area of dentistry more appealing. Personally I would dread having to go to work everyday knowing that i would be adjusting prongs on a RPD or doing endo or taking crown impressions etc. I did enjoy restorative. Specializing is only over rated if you don't like the specialty that you're in. you are right, the earning potentials are similar for GP and specialists, but earning potentials and actual earnings are two very different things. on average the acutual earnings are significantly lower for GPs. The average specialist makes around 100K more per year.
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there are many reasons for the perio specialty averaging less than other specialties. reasons that i choose not to go into, but just know, every periodontist i know is making more than the 'average' oral surgeon. and i can promise, you would not do anything other than practicing as a gp if you would make the same as a gp. why? because as a gp, you can do whatever the hell you want. if you really loved perio, you would only do perio in your practice, minus the 3 years of schooling for the perio specialty. sure the average specialist makes 100k more per year. but tell that to every gp i know who makes more than twice the average of GPs. the bottom line is, the 'average' is just that, an average. if you choose to be average, you will be average. i, on the other hand, choose to excel way beyond average.


and to capisce, how do i not make sense? of course you didn't tell the pedo directors that you wanted to make x amount of dollars, which furthered your interest in pedo. you told them how much you wanted to help the little kiddies, which is borderline pedophiliac.

so, i repeat, for those who did not understand me, you only choose a specialty because of the prospect of working less while making more. it's time we all realize this. how can i prove this? just look at all the posts in the residency forums about omfs, ortho, and pedo from high schoolers/undergrads. LOL.
 
vize said:
there are many reasons for the perio specialty averaging less than other specialties. reasons that i choose not to go into, but just know, every periodontist i know is making more than the 'average' oral surgeon. and i can promise, you would not do anything other than practicing as a gp if you would make the same as a gp. why? because as a gp, you can do whatever the hell you want. if you really loved perio, you would only do perio in your practice, minus the 3 years of schooling for the perio specialty. sure the average specialist makes 100k more per year. but tell that to every gp i know who makes more than twice the average of GPs. the bottom line is, the 'average' is just that, an average. if you choose to be average, you will be average. i, on the other hand, choose to excel way beyond average.


and to capisce, how do i not make sense? of course you didn't tell the pedo directors that you wanted to make x amount of dollars, which furthered your interest in pedo. you told them how much you wanted to help the little kiddies, which is borderline pedophiliac.

so, i repeat, for those who did not understand me, you only choose a specialty because of the prospect of working less while making more. it's time we all realize this. how can i prove this? just look at all the posts in the residency forums about omfs, ortho, and pedo from high schoolers/undergrads. LOL.
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I think you need to take a step back and realize that there really, truly are people in this world who think with their hearts and don't see dollar signs in every decision they make. Capisce was right on with his statement. There are plenty of people who choose to specialize for the wrong reason, but there are also those of us who love what we do, love the patient base we work with, love the fact that we are limited to doing what we really enjoy, and love being THE most fine tuned practitioners in our particular field.

If you can't grasp this concept, I feel for you, as you have no sense of reality. I encourage you to be the very best GP you can be, and do any and all procedures that your patients walk through your doors requiring, however, I also hope I don't sit on the witness stand as an expert witness in a case where you were too thick-skulled/big-headed to know that maybe this was a case you should send out to a specialist....

So, go out there and make 2 or 100 times what the "average GP" makes, but please do so with some sense of class and compassion for yourself, your patients, and your colleagues.
 
vize said:
if you choose to be average, you will be average. i, on the other hand, choose to excel way beyond average.
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By doing perio? :laugh: You sound arrogant.

I've talked to a bunch of specialists about GPs and they invariably say general practice is much harder than doing a specialty. In fact they have a great deal of respect for general dentists. It's not easy to be good at everything. Hardly what I'd call 'being average.' Some of the smartest, most gifted people from my dental school class are general dentists. The care they provide their patients is exceedingly beyond average.

vize said:
you told them how much you wanted to help the little kiddies, which is borderline pedophiliac.
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That's pretty offensive...and gross.

vize said:
you only choose a specialty because of the prospect of working less while making more.
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You sound like you've got a chip on your shoulder. You can believe this if you want, but there are a lot of people who don't share your opinion.
 
vize said:
there are many reasons for the perio specialty averaging less than other specialties. reasons that i choose not to go into, but just know, every periodontist i know is making more than the 'average' oral surgeon. and i can promise, you would not do anything other than practicing as a gp if you would make the same as a gp. why? because as a gp, you can do whatever the hell you want. if you really loved perio, you would only do perio in your practice, minus the 3 years of schooling for the perio specialty. sure the average specialist makes 100k more per year. but tell that to every gp i know who makes more than twice the average of GPs. the bottom line is, the 'average' is just that, an average. if you choose to be average, you will be average. i, on the other hand, choose to excel way beyond average.


and to capisce, how do i not make sense? of course you didn't tell the pedo directors that you wanted to make x amount of dollars, which furthered your interest in pedo. you told them how much you wanted to help the little kiddies, which is borderline pedophiliac.

so, i repeat, for those who did not understand me, you only choose a specialty because of the prospect of working less while making more. it's time we all realize this. how can i prove this? just look at all the posts in the residency forums about omfs, ortho, and pedo from high schoolers/undergrads. LOL.
Click to expand...

You wanted to excel and went into perio? Ha ha ha ha. That is classic. It sounds like you wanted to specialize just to specialize and all you could get into was perio and now you hate it.
 
Sorry, but perio's don't make close to what OS make in terms of averages. That doesn't even pass the laugh test. OMFS has one of the highest income averages for any of the medical specialties. Perio's have much higher overhead given the fact that they have to pay numerous hygienists a high hourly salary. It is a passive income stream for them but it does increase their staff salaries more than it brings in income for them. OMFS don't typically have staff that have such a high salary. So OMFS has to produce less to have the same income as perio.
 
Is perio still a specialty?🙂🙂😉😕😕
 
OceanDMD said:
Is perio still a specialty?🙂🙂😉😕😕
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The perio specialty will die when perio dz is gone. As long as perio disease is ignored, as long as there are lacks of appropriate perio treatments, there will be plenty of implants for periodontists to place and there will be plenty of bone grafts for periodontists to perform.

The perio specialty will die when people no longer have the desire to save their teeth from being extracted. It will die when people no longer believe in the high success of implants. It will die when 100% of the GPs know how to place implants.

diagnodent said:
Perio's have much higher overhead given the fact that they have to pay numerous hygienists a high hourly salary.
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Perio's overhead is very low.... no. 15 blades and silk sutures are inexpensive…. and there are virtually no lab expenses. Hygienists usually help generate additional income for their perio bosses.
 
Much to my chagrin, perio has done a good job of brainwashing general dentists into believing they are 'soft tissue experts' and 'implant specialists', whereas surgeons are 'rough with soft tissue' and treat the gingiva with reckless abandon. 😛
 
drhobie7 said:
whereas surgeons are 'rough with soft tissue' and treat the gingiva with reckless abandon. 😛
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take the strap-on off next time before you take those bicuspids out.
 
charlestweed said:
Perio's overhead is very low.... no. 15 blades and silk sutures are inexpensive…. and there are virtually no lab expenses. Hygienists usually help generate additional income for their perio bosses.
Click to expand...

Perio does have a low overhead but it doesn't have as low as omfs, endo, ortho which are all about 50-55%. Perio overhead is I think an average of 65%.

Look at staff salaries because in a dental office those are always the biggest expense in your overhead calculation. If you have to pay a few staff members 40+/hr (hygienists) it dramatically increases your overhead. The hygienist are probably responsible for producing 100-150/hr. If you pay them 40/hr then their salary overhead expense is 26-40%/hr not including 401k/insurance/other benefits. A good staff overhead is under 21% so if they are being paid over that percentage then your staff overhead expense will be higher than an omfs unless you severly underpay other staff members which doesn't typically happen.
 
it appears that everyone has taken what i said and blown it way out of context, which normally happens when they have no real argument. when did i say i was interested in, or was participating in a perio residency? i, in fact, explicitly stated that i was going into general dentistry. and where did i say perio averages the same as oral surgeons? heh, what i did say is that every periodontist i know makes more than the average oral surgeon. and nowhere did i say going into a general dentistry practice makes you average. i, in fact, said you will make the average income if you choose to be average - no matter if you went into GP or specialty. 😀
 
Sorry, I just like to help dental students think about the dental business b/c I didn't know any of this when I was a student. There are many myths I see on this board and just like to give the real info.
 
Let's see...
Today I pulled #15,17,18, crowned #30, 7, and 10, endo on #12, saw a few 'toothaches' and a 6 yr old and 12 yr old for fillings and seals. I think that covered about 4 specialty areas. I can't choose which one I like the best because variety is the spice of life! Plus, I get to see all of these patients again and again and formulate a good relationship with them. I told the 6 yr old that I'd retire by the time she's 30 yrs old and she said I had to be her dentist forever. Personally thought that was cute.

I know that all everyone in school talks about is how much the guy or gal in the class ahead of them got offered and how much so and so's brother, father, etc.. makes now that they are in private practice. But as someone said in an earlier post, it only matters how hard YOU want to work and where you work and who you work on.

I have a good friend that went to UOP (great school) and is now an Oral Surgeon. We produce about the same amount (dollars) and work just as hard five days a week. The long and short of it is that his overhead and staff expenses are lower. There are no hygienists to employ, less front office staff, he pays his assistants a bit more than mine bc of the sedation and postop, and has NO lab bill. The malpractice insurance is a bit more but not enough to counter the lack of a hyg salary or lab bill. Therefore, he may get 50 cents on each dollar collected while the GP, if they are savy, can hope to get 40 cents after learing the ropes. I'll concede that he deserves that extra 10-20% of income because he went to school for 4 more years and is smart as hell.

I have some great literature from dental CPA's that prove all of this if anyone wants the data. Scary how slim the profit margin can be for a doc if they don't manage their practice well.

But, the long and short of it is how hard you work relates to how well you do. There are lots of us that work only 3 or 4 days a week which is great, I'll see those patients that they don't see the 1 or 2 days they're off!!

My hardest day in practice has never been harder than my hardest day in dental school.
 
jaxdds said:
Let's see...
Today I pulled #15,17,18, crowned #30, 7, and 10, endo on #12, saw a few 'toothaches' and a 6 yr old and 12 yr old for fillings and seals. I think that covered about 4 specialty areas. I can't choose which one I like the best because variety is the spice of life! Plus, I get to see all of these patients again and again and formulate a good relationship with them. I told the 6 yr old that I'd retire by the time she's 30 yrs old and she said I had to be her dentist forever. Personally thought that was cute.

I know that all everyone in school talks about is how much the guy or gal in the class ahead of them got offered and how much so and so's brother, father, etc.. makes now that they are in private practice. But as someone said in an earlier post, it only matters how hard YOU want to work and where you work and who you work on.

I have a good friend that went to UOP (great school) and is now an Oral Surgeon. We produce about the same amount (dollars) and work just as hard five days a week. The long and short of it is that his overhead and staff expenses are lower. There are no hygienists to employ, less front office staff, he pays his assistants a bit more than mine bc of the sedation and postop, and has NO lab bill. The malpractice insurance is a bit more but not enough to counter the lack of a hyg salary or lab bill. Therefore, he may get 50 cents on each dollar collected while the GP, if they are savy, can hope to get 40 cents after learing the ropes. I'll concede that he deserves that extra 10-20% of income because he went to school for 4 more years and is smart as hell.

I have some great literature from dental CPA's that prove all of this if anyone wants the data. Scary how slim the profit margin can be for a doc if they don't manage their practice well.

But, the long and short of it is how hard you work relates to how well you do. There are lots of us that work only 3 or 4 days a week which is great, I'll see those patients that they don't see the 1 or 2 days they're off!!

My hardest day in practice has never been harder than my hardest day in dental school.
Click to expand...

I would like to peruse said dental CPA literature. Sorry to send to everyone but I can't pm you...
 
jaxdds said:
Scary how slim the profit margin can be for a doc if they don't manage their practice well.
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This is the eternal pursuit. Finding that perfect margin between paying your staff well, getting the technology that will help your patients, keeping yourself well schooled, but not overdoing it (ie leaving enough for yourself at the end of the day). Ha ha. There is no absolute answer, the trick is finding out what is right for you and your patients.
 
ptrianon said:
I would like to peruse said dental CPA literature. Sorry to send to everyone but I can't pm you...
Click to expand...

I'll post the figures I got from the latest practice managament figures.

-Dr. J
 
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