Is the difficulty of getting into med school overhyped?

[Jdoc91]

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Arbor Vitae--

Would you take this approach even if you didn't have your MCAT score yet? I plan to submit June 4 but will not be taking the MCAT until june 20 and will not have a score until July 23. In my shoes, should I submit first to only a couple to get verified and the add the rest once I know I have a decent score or roll the dice and submit them all at once.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Arbor Vitae--

Would you take this approach even if you didn't have your MCAT score yet? I plan to submit June 4 but will not be taking the MCAT until june 20 and will not have a score until July 23. In my shoes, should I submit first to only a couple to get verified and the add the rest once I know I have a decent score or roll the dice and submit them all at once.

Maybe just submit to 1 school to get verified.. Too big of a risk to spend that kind of money and time writing without know what your score is. Plus that is kind of on the late side for getting your score back. Don't feel rushed. I knew my score was good enough, if it wasn't I wouldn't have applied. It might be in your best interest to apply next cycle unless you are getting above 30s consistently on your practice MCATs.

 

[ImmunoLove]

While getting into medical school is difficult, the perception created by constant negativity, obsessive-neurotic concerns on individual factors, and the belief that cut-throat competition is normal, makes it at time appear mythically impossible. It really keeps good solid candidates from even applying with the concept that if there are not perfect, they will never get in.

This resonates with me. I'm not neurotic by nature (vigilant yes, but neurotic no), but I've become a head-case because of the hysteria surrounding med school apps. When I actually talk with MDs and MS, I don't feel the "it's impossible" anxiety I experience when interacting with other premeds...

 

[darkjedi]

This resonates with me. I'm not neurotic by nature (vigilant yes, but neurotic no), but I've become a head-case because of the hysteria surrounding med school apps. When I actually talk with MDs and MS, I don't feel the "it's impossible" anxiety I experience when interacting with other premeds...

To be fair, you're talking with a self selected population who were able to get into med school, so of course they are biased in saying it wasn't that hard getting in.

I think the 50% statistic speaks for itself. On top of that, with all the attrition before even the app season starts due to poor grades/MCAT scores/ECs/etc, med school only winds up working out for just a small portion of students starting as premeds.

I will also say that people who are overly neurotic are actually a relatively small portion of the medical student population.

 

[ImmunoLove]

To be fair, you're taking with a self selected population who were able to get into med school, so of course they are biased in saying it wasn't that hard getting in.

I think the 50% statistic speaks for itself. On top of that, with all the attrition before even the app season starts due to poor grades/MCAT scores/ECs/etc, med school only winds up working out for just a small portion of students starting as premeds.

I will also say that people who are overly neurotic are actually a relatively small portion of the medical student population.

Yeah, you're right. Most are weeded out before they apply.

But I think I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that the MDs & MSs said it was easy matriculating somewhere, thus soothing my anxiety (in fact, most stated the opposite); I meant that my personal/professional interactions with MDs and MSs did not produce anxiety within me. That is, most were very smart and capable, but I did not feel I was any less qualified or capable or whatever than they (the few of whom which are quite erudite and with frankly intimidating pedigrees, notwithstanding; interacting with those great ones, who often also happened to be the nicest/reassuring/supportive, definitely highlighted my shortcomings to myself, by comparison. It wasn't anything they did-it was who they were, how they were, that was impressive). Dunno if that clarifies.

PS. Love the avatar!

 

[darkjedi]

Yeah, you're right. Most are weeded out before they apply.

But I think I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that the MDs & MSs said it was easy matriculating somewhere, thus soothing my anxiety (in fact, most stated the opposite); I meant that my personal/professional interactions with MDs and MSs did not produce anxiety within me. That is, most were very smart and capable, but I did not feel I was any less qualified or capable or whatever than they (the few of whom which are quite erudite and with frankly intimidating pedigrees, notwithstanding; interacting with those great ones, who often also happened to be the nicest/reassuring/supportive, definitely highlighted my shortcomings to myself, by comparison. It wasn't anything they did-it was who they were, how they were, that was impressive). Dunno if that clarifies.

PS. Love the avatar!

I completely agree. I've found that the admissions process actually does a decent job of weeding out those that are in fact too neurotic pr can't play well with others. The vast majority of my classmates are awesome and amazing people to hang out with, and so are most of the residents and attendings I've worked with. I thought the pre-med environment in undergrad was incredibly toxic, but once you're in med school, it's a completely different atmosphere.

 

[Holmwood]

That's just for MD schools right?
If we factor in DO schools, the numbers don't seem so bad.

 

[ImmunoLove]

I completely agree. I've found that the admissions process actually does a decent job of weeding out those that are in fact too neurotic pr can't play well with others. The vast majority of my classmates are awesome and amazing people to hang out with, and so are most of the residents and attendings I've worked with. I thought the pre-med environment in undergrad was incredibly toxic, but once you're in med school, it's a completely different atmosphere.

I think you nailed it. Undergrad in my case was (a little but not terribly) toxic because it was a highly competitive program (for aspiring PhDs), but the coursework was so demanding that most students were pretty tight with each other, and supported each other (though I can think of one backstabbing villain whom we all banished on ethical grounds). I notice this "anxiety problem" when interacting with some (many?) premeds in particular: there's this cutthroat mentality rather than the "healthy competition, let's improve each other, may the best man win" mentality (which I quite enjoy, prolly because I was an athlete).

I definitely think that MSs and MDs are way nicer and laid back and frankly more decent people (ok not all), prolly because of your first point (ironically), because of a selection-bias (thankfully) imposed in the MD acceptance process. Man! It's fine for a little while to deal with this level of "crazy" (I don't like unproductive anxiety), but it's getting old. I can get used to it, but I'd rather not. Life is too short. Can't wait to nip this one in the bud and move on to greener pastures.

PS. Just registered your username. You might be my new hero. Maybe.

 

[ImmunoLove]

I think you nailed it. Undergrad in my case was (a little but not terribly) toxic because it was a highly competitive program (for aspiring PhDs), but the coursework was so demanding that most students were pretty tight with each other, and supported each other (though I can think of one backstabbing villain whom we all banished on ethical grounds). I notice this "anxiety problem" when interacting with some (many?) premeds in particular: there's this cutthroat mentality rather than the "healthy competition, let's improve each other, may the best man win" mentality (which I quite enjoy, prolly because I was an athlete).

I definitely think that MSs and MDs are way nicer and laid back and frankly more decent people (ok not all), prolly because of your first point (ironically), because of a selection-bias (thankfully) imposed in the MD acceptance process. Man! It's fine for a little while to deal with this level of "crazy" (I don't like unproductive anxiety), but it's getting old. I can get used to it, but I'd rather not. Life is too short. Can't wait to nip this one in the bud and move on to greener pastures.

PS. Just registered your username. You might be my new hero. Maybe.

I'm not certain if any of this is out of line...It's probably more on the order of venting or lamenting...sorry!

 

[IslandStyle808]

That's just for MD schools right?
If we factor in DO schools, the numbers don't seem so bad.

Interestingly the competition is pretty much the same, but the pool of people who apply MD have higher stats than the pool that apply DO. Kind of shocking really.

 

[Holmwood]

Interestingly the competition is pretty much the same, but the pool of people who apply MD have higher stats than the pool that apply DO. Kind of shocking really.

Well what I meant to say is that if we combined the number of people accepted into at least one MD program with the number of people accepted into at least one DO program, the "number of people accepted into at least one medical school" would be higher that aforementioned. Significantly more? Not sure~

 

[mehc012]

Well what I meant to say is that if we combined the number of people accepted into at least one MD program with the number of people accepted into at least one DO program, the "number of people accepted into at least one medical school" would be higher that aforementioned. Significantly more? Not sure~

Depends on whether the majority of DO applicants also apply MD. If not, then it could go either way, depending on the overall acceptance rate for DO schools. If most DO applicants applied to both, then you've essentially got the same applicant pool, but more matriculants, and therefore higher acceptance rate.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Well what I meant to say is that if we combined the number of people accepted into at least one MD program with the number of people accepted into at least one DO program, the "number of people accepted into at least one medical school" would be higher that aforementioned. Significantly more? Not sure~

Actually if you did that the percentage that get in overall would be the same, with competition being the same for both DO and MD. The thing that would change is the stats to get into a school. There would be an increasing percentage with X MCAT and Y GPA getting into "a school."

 

[fellowstudent92]

What's the point of having selective admissions if the foreseeable future of medicine isn't even that bright? lol some food for thought.

 

[BrCo]

I have friends in medical schools that are highly cut throat, where the class is in constant competition and the atmosphere is definitely one of neuroticism. I have seen the opposite as well. I would venture to say that every med school has it's own atmosphere.

I completely agree. I've found that the admissions process actually does a decent job of weeding out those that are in fact too neurotic pr can't play well with others. The vast majority of my classmates are awesome and amazing people to hang out with, and so are most of the residents and attendings I've worked with. I thought the pre-med environment in undergrad was incredibly toxic, but once you're in med school, it's a completely different atmosphere.

 

[Detective John McClane]

I completely agree. I've found that the admissions process actually does a decent job of weeding out those that are in fact too neurotic pr can't play well with others. The vast majority of my classmates are awesome and amazing people to hang out with, and so are most of the residents and attendings I've worked with. I thought the pre-med environment in undergrad was incredibly toxic, but once you're in med school, it's a completely different atmosphere.

Toxic is probably the most accurate way it can be described.

 

[235009]

Actually if you did that the percentage that get in overall would be the same, with competition being the same for both DO and MD. The thing that would change is the stats to get into a school. There would be an increasing percentage with X MCAT and Y GPA getting into "a school."

It would only be the same because you'd be counting a bunch of people twice since most DO applicants apply to at least one US MD school. I'd guess that if you factor in DO acceptance the med school acceptance rate would be closer to 75%. The ones who don't get in anywhere after applying MD and DO either aren't applying broadly enough or have no business applying at all.

 

[LizzyM]

@MeatTornado The medical school acceptance rate is far far less than 75% when counting in the DOs.

There are 4,800 new DOs each year. Let's assume that that is 95% of the pool that started 4 years earlier. (in other words, account for those who matricuate but drop out) That would mean about 5052 osteopathic students begin school each year. Let's assume that every one of those osteopathic students was also represented in the pool of MD applicants. In 2012 there were 45,226 applicants to allopathic medical schools and 19,517 matriculants to those schools. (43%). If we add 5052 DO students who would also be represented among the 45,226 applicants to allopathic schools we have the proportion of all applicants getting in somewhere at just under 55% and perhaps lower in that not every DO applicant also applied to MD schools.

 

[IslandStyle808]

It would only be the same because you'd be counting a bunch of people twice since most DO applicants apply to at least one US MD school. I'd guess that if you factor in DO acceptance the med school acceptance rate would be closer to 75%. The ones who don't get in anywhere after applying MD and DO either aren't applying broadly enough or have no business applying at all.

Sorry I thought you meant given similar stats. The acceptance rate well definitely not be 75% when DO schools are added to MD schools admissions overall. As Lizzy has stated, it will be lower. Almost to the point where the overall percentage will be the same when combined.

 

[IslandStyle808]

@MeatTornado The medical school acceptance rate is far far less than 75% when counting in the DOs.

There are 4,800 new DOs each year. Let's assume that that is 95% of the pool that started 4 years earlier. (in other words, account for those who matricuate but drop out) That would mean about 5052 osteopathic students begin school each year. Let's assume that every one of those osteopathic students was also represented in the pool of MD applicants. In 2012 there were 45,226 applicants to allopathic medical schools and 19,517 matriculants to those schools. (43%). If we add 5052 DO students who would also be represented among the 45,226 applicants to allopathic schools we have the proportion of all applicants getting in somewhere at just under 55% and perhaps lower in that not every DO applicant also applied to MD schools.

This is spot on.

 

[Anicetus]

Still with D.O., all you need really is a 3.3 GPA and a 27 on the Mcat to be a full fledged physician.

 

[Tawantinsuyu]

I think people (especially SDN) overhype the difficulty of med school admissions quite considerably. As long as you got mostly A's in college, got a 30+ MCAT, and have some clinical and research experience (you do not need anything close to 500+ hours), you'll very likely get in somewhere.

You say that like it's easy, lol

 

[fellowstudent92]

no offense but it is. the classes you take in college are BASIC ****. Getting 30+ in the MCAT is not hard as long as you put effort.

You say that like it's easy, lol

 

[Tawantinsuyu]

no offense but it is. the classes you take in college are BASIC ****. Getting 30+ in the MCAT is not hard as long as you put effort.

I guess this is why I shouldn't be on SDN. Haha I joined exactly a month after you!

 

[Goro]

To add to my learned colleague's comment, the stats at my schools are >5000 applicants for ~100 seats. Numbers for the other DO schools are similar, and in fact, these ratios mirror those of MD schools (ie, ~50:1). It is inaccurate to assume that a great majority of applicants to DO schools get in simply because the numbers requirements are more lenient.


There are 4,800 new DOs each year. Let's assume that that is 95% of the pool that started 4 years earlier. (in other words, account for those who matricuate but drop out) That would mean about 5052 osteopathic students begin school each year. Let's assume that every one of those osteopathic students was also represented in the pool of MD applicants. In 2012 there were 45,226 applicants to allopathic medical schools and 19,517 matriculants to those schools. (43%). If we add 5052 DO students who would also be represented among the 45,226 applicants to allopathic schools we have the proportion of all applicants getting in somewhere at just under 55% and perhaps lower in that not every DO applicant also applied to MD schools.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Still with D.O., all you need really is a 3.3 GPA and a 27 on the Mcat to be a full fledged physician.

Well ya know, there's also passing medical school and board exams... 🙄