Is the DO degree relevant anymore?

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

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Hi all!

I am going into medicine, and like all med students, I am concerned about matching. Given the recent residency merger and the indistinguishable curriculum of MD/DO schools (with the exception of the added OMM) I was wondering why there is so much resistance from the AOA to change the degree to an MD. In this current time, it seems like it just creates unnecessary bias when trying to get a residency spot. Furthermore, most DO students seem to dislike explaining what the degree is or whether they are real doctors. I personally don't think it's fair that DO students go through the same exact curriculum, take the USMLE and COMLEX, and now, go to an ACGME residency all while dealing with negative stigma and bias throughout their entire career. Is there resistance because the AOA doesn't want to give up the fees they receive from certification? I truly don't see a point in a separate degree and it just seems like stubbornness or politics that is preventing the title change.

I would appreciate any info on movements or organizations I can join to push this cause along.

Thanks!

 

[DNC127]

AOA / COCA = crooks

MD = DO after residency (unless you want ivory tower academic medicine)

DO degree = irrelevant

 

[Isoval]

AOA / COCA = crooks

MD = DO after residency (unless you want ivory tower academic medicine)

DO degree = irrelevant

Basically this.

The even shorter answer is that it's historical.

It'll probably merge for real one day. Just not today, tomorrow, or a decade from now.

 

[Rogue42]

If by relevant, you mean that it allows for you to become a physician and licensed to practice medicine in all 50 states? Then yes, it is very relevant.

 

[DNC127]

If by relevant, you mean that it allows for you to become a physician and licensed to practice medicine in all 50 states? Then yes, it is very relevant.

I think he means relevant in the sense that there is an actual difference between MD and DO, ie: should the DO degree even exist or should all schools just grant MD degree (even the ones that teach OMM)

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Relevant if you wanna specialize in OMM, irrelevant otherwise.

 

[IdealNFP]

I wonder what the process would look like to convert the degree ... years and years of legislation and $$$? hmmm

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just not today, tomorrow, or a decade from now.

I am starting to not be so sure about this. There have been things happening at my school behind the scenes, and even stuff said openly, that lead me to believe that they legitimately think they could be looking at a full blown merger sooner rather than later. Ya it's not happening anytime soon, but 10 years is a real possibility IMO. Maybe 20.

I mean, the AOA as a whole is fighting an already lost battle with board certification. Honestly accrediting medical schools/COCA, the NBOME, and managing the NMM/Osteopathic recognized residencies are really all they have left.

 

[Isoval]

I am starting to not be so sure about this. There have been things happening at my school behind the scenes, and even stuff said openly, that lead me to believe that they legitimately think they could be looking at a full blown merger sooner rather than later. Ya it's not happening anytime soon, but 10 years is a real possibility IMO. Maybe 20.

I mean, the AOA as a whole is fighting an already lost battle with board certification. Honestly accrediting medical schools/COCA, the NBOME, and managing the NMM/Osteopathic recognized residencies are really all they have left.

That's very interesting!

In my mind, I'm looking at our generation of DOs and thinking, "there's no way in hell we're going to continue propagating some of this bs" and hence, when our generation starts to take leadership positions, we'll see the AOA/COCA begin to collapse into AAMC/LCME. It's interesting to hear that there's a very real possibility that it may occur well before that happens.

 

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

I wonder what the process would look like to convert the degree ... years and years of legislation and $$$? hmmm

I was thinking about this but it doesn't really seem that hard if the AOA would stop pushing so hard to keep the DO name. There's an article that goes through the history:

Home - Journal of Osteopathic Medicine

jaoa.org

At one point, MD schools were offering transfers to those who wanted an MD and the AOA claimed that they were "stealing" their students. Absolutely ridiculous imo. If students were willingly leaving, that says a lot. Additionally, when they allowed you to purchase the MD initials, about 2000 out of the 2500 DOs at the time did it.

Now, it's just become pure politics given that MDs can now learn OMM. I'm not saying the degree is worthless or, even worse, trying to start a flame war. I only see negatives with keeping the DO initials, and honestly, it doesn't make objective sense anymore.

Please tell me what you all think. I'd really like to join/start a movement if possible.

 

[IdealNFP]

I was thinking about this but it doesn't really seem that hard if the AOA would stop pushing so hard to keep the DO name. There's an article that goes through the history:

Home - Journal of Osteopathic Medicine

jaoa.org

At one point, MD schools were offering transfers to those who wanted an MD and the AOA claimed that they were "stealing" their students. Absolutely ridiculous imo. If students were willingly leaving, that says a lot. Additionally, when they allowed you to purchase the MD initials, about 2000 out of the 2500 DOs at the time did it.

Now, it's just become pure politics given that MDs can now learn OMM. I'm not saying the degree is worthless or, even worse, trying to start a flame war. I only see negatives with keeping the DO initials, and honestly, it doesn't make objective sense anymore.

Please tell me what you all think. I'd really like to join/start a movement if possible.

This is super interesting info! I didn't know there was so much history behind the name.

I'll be honest I've shadowed and worked with quite a few MD and DO physicians, they're virtually identical with the exception of a DO sometimes practicing OMM (rare in office). I'm totally behind unification especially with the merging of residencies, but I feel there are powerful people behind the scenes that have something to lose. What other possible reason could they have to keep the name?

 

[Goro]

I am starting to not be so sure about this. There have been things happening at my school behind the scenes, and even stuff said openly, that lead me to believe that they legitimately think they could be looking at a full blown merger sooner rather than later. Ya it's not happening anytime soon, but 10 years is a real possibility IMO. Maybe 20.

I mean, the AOA as a whole is fighting an already lost battle with board certification. Honestly accrediting medical schools/COCA, the NBOME, and managing the NMM/Osteopathic recognized residencies are really all they have left.

I can only hope to be still alive to see this if what you're saying is correct.

OP, do not underestimate the power of the True Believers in the AOA.

 

[smukke]

That's very interesting!

In my mind, I'm looking at our generation of DOs and thinking, "there's no way in hell we're going to continue propagating some of this bs" and hence, when our generation starts to take leadership positions, we'll see the AOA/COCA begin to collapse into AAMC/LCME. It's interesting to hear that there's a very real possibility that it may occur well before that happens.

Problem is that those who are going to be taking the leadership roles are the True Believers of our generation. Most people aren't going to devote time to an organization that they want to dismantle when their time could be better used elsewhere, like getting a leadership position in an organization they believe in.

 

[sumtimesuwonder]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the big obstacle to this the different standards MD schools have in terms of facilities and research? Don't MD schools have to have things like home hospitals and X amount of research to be accredited? If a true merger were to happen some of these standards would have to be loosened so that some rural DO schools could continue to exist.

 

[Dr. Foresight]

Problem is that those who are going to be taking the leadership roles are the True Believers of our generation. Most people aren't going to devote time to an organization that they want to dismantle when their time could be better used elsewhere, like getting a leadership position in an organization they believe in.

This is absolutely correct. The AOA leadership is doing nothing but holding DOs back.

 

[Dr. Foresight]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the big obstacle to this the different standards MD schools have in terms of facilities and research? Don't MD schools have to have things like home hospitals and X amount of research to be accredited? If a true merger were to happen some of these standards would have to be loosened so that some rural DO schools could continue to exist.

Yes the standards for research and affiliated hospitals would have to be lowered, but the LCME would not do that. At least not for a very long time. DO schools would have to "elevate" to those standards.

 

[sumtimesuwonder]

Yes the standards for research and affiliated hospitals would have to be lowered, but the LCME would not do that. At least not for a very long time. DO schools would have to "elevate" to those standards.

Yeah that is what I would assume too, which is why I don't think a merger will happen anytime soon. A large proportion of current DO schools would have to suddenly come up with a boatload of money and find resources that simply don't exist in their areas. Sure, a bunch of urban DO schools like PCOM or Midwestern or NYITCOM might be able to figure this kind of stuff out, but good luck getting schools like WVSOM or KYCOM up to the MD standard.

 

[Dr. Foresight]

Yeah that is what I would assume too, which is why I don't think a merger will happen anytime soon. A large proportion of current DO schools would have to suddenly come up with a boatload of money and find resources that simply don't exist in their areas. Sure, a bunch of urban DO schools like PCOM or Midwestern or NYITCOM might be able to figure this kind of stuff out, but good luck getting schools like WVSOM or KYCOM up to the MD standard.

Exactly. PCOM, CCOM, even LECOM could easily do it. I bet the RVUs could find a way to do it too. I bet you would see some of the rural schools fold rather than go through the cost of gaining those resources.

 

[IsWhat]

MDs have been actively working to become the sole Physician title for years - and now with the GME merger it wouldn’t surprise me if there became some kind of pathway to an MD for DOs. Maybe something similar to India where you graduate from medical school with an MBBS and receive an MD after specialty/residency training. This would effectively erase the DO degree in a relatively palatable way and removes undergraduate medical education from the equation.

 

[deleted981229]

Is there a shortage for doctors in America? I don’t know much about MD and DO politics. But I know doctors are not considered as elites in many countries. If we continue to fight in the states, maybe it’s better to have foreign doctors take over many specialties. A lot of them are willing to get paid under $100k a year.

 

[ciestar]

Is there a shortage for doctors in America? I don’t know much about MD and DO politics. But I know doctors are not considered as elites in many countries. If we continue to fight in the states, maybe it’s better to have foreign doctors take over many specialties. A lot of them are willing to get paid under $100k a year.

It might be a good idea to find out how all of this works. No foreign doctor can just “take over” in any specialty. You have to complete a residency regardless and guess where most of the funding for those residencies comes from?

 

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

I'm totally behind unification especially with the merging of residencies, but I feel there are powerful people behind the scenes that have something to lose. What other possible reason could they have to keep the name?

This is exactly what I want to figure out. Also, it's true that DOs would have to "elevate" to MD standards but there are other, much easier, avenues that can be created to change the name for those who want to. The AOA keeps blocking them and I want to understand why. Why block the purchasing of an MD title? It makes no difference to the AOA at that point. They've already received their fees.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

This is exactly what I want to figure out. Also, it's true that DOs would have to "elevate" to MD standards but there are other, much easier, avenues that can be created to change the name for those who want to. The AOA keeps blocking them and I want to understand why. Why block the purchasing of an MD title? It makes no difference to the AOA at that point. They've already received their fees.

Because who cares what 2 letters someone has behind their name as long you're still getting attending salary.

 

[ciestar]

This is exactly what I want to figure out. Also, it's true that DOs would have to "elevate" to MD standards but there are other, much easier, avenues that can be created to change the name for those who want to. The AOA keeps blocking them and I want to understand why. Why block the purchasing of an MD title? It makes no difference to the AOA at that point. They've already received their fees.

Because it means nothing once you finish med school. The stigma really hits the hardest applying for residency.

I also have a feeling there would be blow back from MDs. DO schools are easier to get into, how many more would take that path if they could just buy the credentials?

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

Wasn't there a push to change the title from DO to MDO? I think there was some pretty intense push back from the AOA too.

 

[Rogue42]

Because it means nothing once you finish med school. The stigma really hits the hardest applying for residency.

I also have a feeling there would be blow back from MDs. DO schools are easier to get into, how many more would take that path if they could just buy the credentials?

Probably not as many as you would think. Easier is subjective - are the scores and GPA lower? Sure, but in 2017 only by .15 GPA and 6 MCAT points. So, you are talking what like 2 As instead of 2 Bs and a killer good test day? It is still HARD to get in. Second, MD schools have a better advantage for having their associated hospitals. Also, so much cheaper!

I am not arguing with you that MD schools are tougher to get into because they are, and I am not arguing that there is not a stigma or would be push back because there is and would be; just pointing out that the difference between the caliber of students is not HUGE and if given the opportunity, I do not think people would just choose DO if they could buy the credentials due to all of the other advantages MD schools offer.

 

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

Wasn't there a push to change the title from DO to MDO? I think there was some pretty intense push back from the AOA too.

I think they took a vote which resulted in a decision not to change the title. It was probably because people who don't like the title tend not to join the AOA.

This is what I mean about starting a movement. If we get enough people to join and make a statement about it, we could probably make it happen, especially given the recent merger.

Also, I think everyone wanted MD/DO but that wasn't on the table. I think trading DO for a completely unrecognizable initial like MDO would be even more confusing. MD/DO is much more clear.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the big obstacle to this the different standards MD schools have in terms of facilities and research? Don't MD schools have to have things like home hospitals and X amount of research to be accredited? If a true merger were to happen some of these standards would have to be loosened so that some rural DO schools could continue to exist.

Research and funding sources are the biggest differences. The clinical education requirements for LCME and COCA are the exact same. Same wording and everything. Not all MD schools have a home hospital.

 

[DO2015CA]

I think they took a vote which resulted in a decision not to change the title. It was probably because people who don't like the title tend not to join the AOA.

This is what I mean about starting a movement. If we get enough people to join and make a statement about it, we could probably make it happen, especially given the recent merger.

Also, I think everyone wanted MD/DO but that wasn't on the table. I think trading DO for a completely unrecognizable initial like MDO would be even more confusing. MD/DO is much more clear.

My all of our dues then

 

[IsWhat]

Research and funding sources are the biggest differences. The clinical education requirements for LCME and COCA are the exact same. Same wording and everything. Not all MD schools have a home hospital.

This.

SDN likes to make it seem like DO schools are an abomination to medical education. The reality is most DO schools would pass LCME inspection with a few tweaks here and there - just like the majority of AOA residencies became ACGME certified with relative ease.

Would we consider these schools top notch? No. Would they meet LCME standards? Most of them, yes.

 

[Isoval]

I think they took a vote which resulted in a decision not to change the title. It was probably because people who don't like the title tend not to join the AOA.

This is what I mean about starting a movement. If we get enough people to join and make a statement about it, we could probably make it happen, especially given the recent merger.

Also, I think everyone wanted MD/DO but that wasn't on the table. I think trading DO for a completely unrecognizable initial like MDO would be even more confusing. MD/DO is much more clear.

I actually have always wanted a change like that. In the short term, it's less clear.

Long term, we'll never be mistaken for chiropractor quacks ever again.

 

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

Ok, I'm serious about this so please post your ideas about how to get this moving. For now, I've thought of the following:

1. Get as many people to become a member of the AOA. It's free if you're a student!

2. Make a website where current DOs (students, residents, fellows, and doctors) can sign a petition. I can create this.

3. Once we get a decent number of signatures, start pushing the issue at the AOA.

This is just a general idea but I think we would have to ask LCME for advice. I don't really know what's required to make the switch. If we get info from LCME about how to do it, then the AOA can't blow smoke up everyone's *** about how they can't do it.

 

[Chibucks15]

Ok, I'm serious about this so please post your ideas about how to get this moving. For now, I've thought of the following:

1. Get as many people to become a member of the AOA. It's free if you're a student!

2. Make a website where current DOs (students, residents, fellows, and doctors) can sign a petition. I can create this.

3. Once we get a decent number of signatures, start pushing the issue at the AOA.

This is just a general idea but I think we would have to ask LCME for advice. I don't really know what's required to make the switch. If we get info from LCME about how to do it, then the AOA can't blow smoke up everyone's *** about how they can't do it.

Gonna be honest...you won’t find enough people motivated enough to take this on. It only matters if you want something crazy competitive, and then residencies can find new ways to screen former DOs out.

Once you start med school and get into the grind, you just wanna finish and you don’t care what letters are behind your name. Patients don’t really notice a difference either. If you want the MD, make yourself more competitive instead of trying to buy the title

 

[DO2015CA]

Gonna be honest...you won’t find enough people motivated enough to take this on. It only matters if you want something crazy competitive, and then residencies can find new ways to screen former DOs out.

Once you start med school and get into the grind, you just wanna finish and you don’t care what letters are behind your name. Patients don’t really notice a difference either. If you want the MD, make yourself more competitive instead of trying to buy the title

And you’ll find people that have finished medschool are even less motivated to do it. Like everyone says it’s residency selection that really hurts DOs. If they’ve gone through the match then why do they care anymore

 

[DrStephenStrange]

OP you are fighting for a lost cause.

 

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

This is why the effort always dies off. Patients do care. I've seen it in the hospital and I think it's really unfair to the doctor who went through the exact same training. They should be all MD to avoid confusion and bias but if we don't try, it'll truly never happen.

They may screen out former DOs but with an MD title, it'll be no different than screening out lower tier MD schools. There are practices out there that don't want to put DO on their list of providers. Change that, and the bias will be significantly reduced.

 

[Chibucks15]

This is why the effort always dies off. Patients do care. I've seen it in the hospital and I think it's really unfair to the doctor who went through the exact same training. They should be all MD to avoid confusion and bias but if we don't try, it'll truly never happen.

They may screen out former DOs but with an MD title, it'll be no different than screening out lower tier MD schools. There are practices out there that don't want to put DO on their list of providers. Change that, and the bias will be significantly reduced.

Nobody cares. 8/10 times the patient doesn’t know the difference. If you’re so concerned about this, then make yourself a better applicant and go MD. Switching the titles and merging them together won’t mean jack except the egomaniacs

 

[DrStephenStrange]

This is why the effort always dies off. Patients do care. I've seen it in the hospital and I think it's really unfair to the doctor who went through the exact same training. They should be all MD to avoid confusion and bias but if we don't try, it'll truly never happen.

They may screen out former DOs but with an MD title, it'll be no different than screening out lower tier MD schools. There are practices out there that don't want to put DO on their list of providers. Change that, and the bias will be significantly reduced.

Many patients also prefer going to DOs because of the perceived notion that DOs are more "holistic" and treat "the whole patient". Some people actually build their patient base and practice around that. So not everyone wanna change their DO to an MD. Have you ever thought about that?

And in general, patients don't even notice when Doctors have MBBS behind their names, why would having the DO letters confuse them? Are patients confused when their dentist have DDS instead of DMD behind their names as well? No one cares that much dude. Patients only wants you to be able to take care of their problems, and Doctors only cares about getting compensated for their knowledge. That's it.

And honestly, if I bust my ass, Work hard, take 2 set of board exams, and get through DO school and match, I certainly won't want my DO letters switched to MD especially knowing that no MD schools wanted me as a student. It's like trying to divorce someone that stayed by your side through all the bad times to marry your long lost crush who has never even noticed you all those years before everything started working for you.

 

[DO2015CA]

This is why the effort always dies off. Patients do care. I've seen it in the hospital and I think it's really unfair to the doctor who went through the exact same training. They should be all MD to avoid confusion and bias but if we don't try, it'll truly never happen.

They may screen out former DOs but with an MD title, it'll be no different than screening out lower tier MD schools. There are practices out there that don't want to put DO on their list of providers. Change that, and the bias will be significantly reduced.

Wrong. What makes you think patients care once they find out you are a real doctor not some endless allied health person they see instead of the doctor? The people it matters to is prestige ******, which they **** on anything not top 25 anyways, and DO student with an inferiority complex. I haven’t met one practicing DO that feels the way you are describing.

 

[DO2015CA]

Many patients also prefer going to DOs because of the perceived notion that DOs are more "holistic" and treat "the whole patient". Some people actually build their patient base and practice around that. So not everyone wanna change their DO to an MD. Have you ever thought about that?

And in general, patients don't even notice when Doctors have MBBS behind their names, why would having the DO letters confuse them? Are patients confused when their dentist have DDS instead of DMD behind their names as well? No one cares that much dude. Patients only wants you to be able to take care of their problems, and Doctors only cares about getting compensated for their knowledge. That's it.

And honestly, if I bust my ass, Work hard, take 2 set of board exams, and get through DO school and match, I certainly won't want my DO letters switched to MD especially knowing that no MD schools wanted me as a student. It's like trying to divorce someone that stayed by your side through all the bad times to marry your long lost crush who has never even noticed you all those years before everything started working for you.

The last paragraph exactly. I am extremely proud of my degree and hard work. I worked hard for this. I didn’t work hard for an MD. Not that I’m brainwashed in the cult of Still but I worked hard for MY degree... and MY degree is a DO. So I am attached to it

 

[CuriousGeorgeTA19]

I'm not proud of my degree. I'm proud of the work I did, and I for one, would like it to be accurately represented (i.e. - MD/DO). The truth is that DOs in most other countries are not practicing physicians and the DO degree was founded on a concept that is no longer unique to DO. Hence, the confusion, bias, and stigma that comes with it.

 

[Chibucks15]

I'm not proud of my degree. I'm proud of the work I did, and I for one, would like it to be accurately represented (i.e. - MD/DO). The truth is that DOs in most other countries are not practicing physicians and the DO degree was founded on a concept that is no longer unique to DO. Hence, the confusion, bias, and stigma that comes with it.

There is no confusion, and the only bias is at more competitive places because they have that luxury. You should’ve made yourself better for MD. Buying your way into MD won’t make you an MD. With the internet it’ll take somebody 3 seconds to look up your school if they tried.

Nobody cares in the real world. The only people that do need to swallow their ego

 

[mudpilesMD]

If DO students would start taking Step 2 CS (we already take Step 1 and Step 2 CK) then we would qualify to sit for Step 3. You DO NOT need level 3 to obtain licensure. You need one complete set of exams (even if you have a DO degree) whether that be level 1, 2 and 3 or Step 1,2, and 3. I confirmed this with the FSMB. There are only like 4-6 states, I can't recall which, that would not allow you to do this. But if this became mainstream that would change fast.

The point would be that if no one was taking level 3 that would be a massive loss to the AOA financially ($875 x 4,000 test takers each year on average). Additionally, it would destroy the utility of their licensure exams overall and prompt faster change. Because FSMB oversees licensure there is no way they can ever force anyone to take step 3.

Personally, I took Step 2 CS. It cost me an extra $1200 but I don't need to see OMM again, pay AOA dues once I graduate, or sit for another poorly written test. Also, it's very helpful when applying for fellowships which across the board is becoming more competitive.

 

[IsWhat]

The last paragraph exactly. I am extremely proud of my degree and hard work. I worked hard for this. I didn’t work hard for an MD. Not that I’m brainwashed in the cult of Still but I worked hard for MY degree... and MY degree is a DO. So I am attached to it

I think the main problem with the DO degree is the name grossly misrepresents the training we receive. We didn’t learn bone medicine. We learned medicine and received a few hours per week of manual medicine training the first two years of medical school. That’s it. We should be Doctors of Medicine with Osteopathic distinction (MD-O) or something in that vain.

One of the best things we can do to preserve “Osteopathic Medicine” is change the degree name to something more marketable. As it stands, American DOs will always have a hard time marketing themselves nationally and internationally, because the name makes no logical sense.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I'm not proud of my degree. I'm proud of the work I did, and I for one, would like it to be accurately represented (i.e. - MD/DO). The truth is that DOs in most other countries are not practicing physicians and the DO degree was founded on a concept that is no longer unique to DO. Hence, the confusion, bias, and stigma that comes with it.

There is a big difference between DOs and osteopaths. The latter aren't practicing physician in other countries. American trained osteopathic physicians aka DOs have full practice rights in over 50 countries. And if you are not proud of it and hate it that bad, then you should have made yourself better for MD schools. Sorry pal, but not sorry.

 

[mudpilesMD]

There is a big difference between DOs and osteopaths. The latter aren't practicing physician in other countries. American trained osteopathic physicians aka DOs have full practice rights in over 50 countries. And if you are not proud of it and hate it that bad, then you should have made yourself better for MD schools. Sorry pal, but not sorry.

"made yourself better for MD schools"? DO schools for 90% of students is a means to an end to become a physician. They could care less about osteopathy. Many down-right despise the pseudo-science that is.
Base on your current signature ("Future Bone Wizard here learning how to treat Mind, Body and Spirit in the name of Saint A.T.Still. And my name is Dr. Strange not Mr. Doctor.") I can tell you're already drinking from the poisoned cool-aid in year one.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

"made yourself better for MD schools"? DO schools for 90% of students is a means to an end to become a physician. They could care less about osteopathy. Many down-right despise the pseudo-science that is.
Base on your current signature ("Future Bone Wizard here learning how to treat Mind, Body and Spirit in the name of Saint A.T.Still. And my name is Dr. Strange not Mr. Doctor.") I can tell you're already drinking from the poisoned cool-aid in year one.

Haha, and that's all the DO is for me a means to an end. I could care less about OMM. I was just telling a self-hating DO student that he could have avoided all this by having better stats and going MD. I know jokes don't travel well through the internet, but if you can't get the sarcasm in my signature, dude you have an even bigger problem.

 

[Magus5454]

My big issue with the DO degree is that many countries still don't recognize it. It's a big issue with people at my school interested in international medicine

 

[DrStephenStrange]

My big issue with the DO degree is that many countries still don't recognize it. It's a big issue with people at my school interested in international medicine

I think with the merger, DOs and MDs now training under the same accrediting body, this might change over time. It wasn't too long ago where 15 African countries accepted US trained DOs as equal to MDs, and this might be a big reason why.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If DO students would start taking Step 2 CS (we already take Step 1 and Step 2 CK)

Gross. Another 1200? No thanks.

"made yourself better for MD schools"? DO schools for 90% of students is a means to an end to become a physician. They could care less about osteopathy. Many down-right despise the pseudo-science that is.
Base on your current signature ("Future Bone Wizard here learning how to treat Mind, Body and Spirit in the name of Saint A.T.Still. And my name is Dr. Strange not Mr. Doctor.") I can tell you're already drinking from the poisoned cool-aid in year one.

It's called satire....

My big issue with the DO degree is that many countries still don't recognize it. It's a big issue with people at my school interested in international medicine

A lot more do than people think... and for the countries that don't if you are there with an organization such as Doctors Without Borders then you have full rights anyway... Honestly the international thing is a non-issue for 99% of DO grads.