Is the grass really greener?

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nonizondi

nonizondi

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On many forums a lot of pharmacists talk about how computer science, IT or engineering would have been a better career choice for them but they tend to forget that these fields have their shortcomings as well. The time and financial commitment to get IT/Engineering degrees are less when compared to pharmacy but they do not guarantee job stability either . I have engineer friends who find it difficult to get a stable job in IT/engineering.Most engineering jobs are contract based and you have to keep moving around the country to find jobs . For IT, you have to keep getting certifications upon certifications to stay relevant and they are the first to get laid off if there is a budget cut in any big firm. I work part time for one of the top five cable service providers and I have seen many IT professionals get laid off during these corona virus pandemic and this isn't peculiar to my company. Getting another degree in combination with your pharmd isn't totally a bad idea but you have to know what you plan to achieve with the combo. Pharmacy jobs aren't going anywhere but my beef with the system is the continous hike in tuition and no of expansion in the scope of practice of pharmacists.
 
What people are referencing when they bring up CS/IT/engineering is not so much about the nature of the work done by people in these professions; rather, much of the attention they get is due to the fact that their job markets are still much better off than pharmacy's in the sense that people in those fields can actually find decent jobs in medium-sized cities.
 
Yes they have it pretty good. My friend is a cloud engineer who lives in the Bay area. As soon as the pandemic spread there, he hopped on a flight to Hawaii. He can work anywhere in the world. He rented a luxury high rise apt on Airbnb for just $1600/mo while his roommates are paying for his mortgage back home. Did I mention he gets consistent raises, overtime and bonuses each year? Plus they get free food in the office when things are normal. Oh yeah and there is NO vacation policy. They can take vacation whenever they want for as long as they want. The company trusts them not to abuse it. Meanwhile some pharmacists can't even get Thanksgiving and Christmas off.

He was actually laid off from his previous job and wanted to take a break. But he kept getting calls to start up at another company within 3 weeks. So he didn't get to take the 6 month break that he hoped for. The previous company gave a year of severance so he was getting two paychecks for a whole year. What kind of severance do pharmacists get if any when they are laid off, 2-3 weeks tops?
 
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nonizondi said:
On many forums a lot of pharmacists talk about how computer science, IT or engineering would have been a better career choice for them but they tend to forget that these fields have their shortcomings as well. The time and financial commitment to get IT/Engineering degrees are less when compared to pharmacy but they do not guarantee job stability either . I have engineer friends who find it difficult to get a stable job in IT/engineering.Most engineering jobs are contract based and you have to keep moving around the country to find jobs . For IT, you have to keep getting certifications upon certifications to stay relevant and they are the first to get laid off if there is a budget cut in any big firm. I work part time for one of the top five cable service providers and I have seen many IT professionals get laid off during these corona virus pandemic and this isn't peculiar to my company. Getting another degree in combination with your pharmd isn't totally a bad idea but you have to know what you plan to achieve with the combo. Pharmacy jobs aren't going anywhere but my beef with the system is the continous hike in tuition and no of expansion in the scope of practice of pharmacists.
Click to expand...
I can't agree with people that are saying CS or IT is so much better but it is true that pharmacy is a dying career. Not even sure if comparing a medical profession to a non-medical profession is a good idea.

1. No other medical profession has zero growth prediction outcome for the next 10-15 years.

2. No other medical profession has ultra super captain america type of over saturation pharmacy has. Schools now just realizing they fawked up yet they don't know what to do to fix the problem. They are forced to close and layoff professors. Most of these professors and admins don't know what the problem is because they're so disconnected with the real world. They have zero clue that #3 is killing our profession.

3. No other medical profession has let other entities such as PBMs and insurance companies, take absolute control over their profession. I mean just dominating the fawk out of it and we are being completely cu@ked. Unknown and unpredictable DIR fees, unfair reimbursements, s#!tty PBM contracts forcing patients to go mail-order or "preferred" pharmacies taking away patient's freedom to choose.

Hell, I can go on all day but just on those above three should be enough to tell you this profession has no future.

Doctors, nurses, PAs, dentists, respiratory therapists, chiropractors, hospital janitors, lab technicians, hospital cafeteria workers have better future outcomes than us.
 
Pronounce Doxazosin said:
It's all perspective.
We all should be happy to have a white-collar job in a first world country
Click to expand...
The problem is pharmacy has gotten so bad that pharmacists and techs are being treated like a blue-collar worker in third world countries....
 
Are you talking about field IT techs? That's not a great job either. Some of the best jobs right now however are computer/software engineer, programmer, data science, etc. Pretty much every single friend I have is doing better than me right now financially (and I'm not doing bad at all compared to these new grads making low $40s/hr or working less than 40 hours per week). I have a younger friend who graduated last year with a bachelor's in computer engineering and got offered a job with one of the big tech companies making over $100k a year. No doctorate needed, no crushing student debt. That may be an extreme example, but everybody else I know who works in tech makes at least $70k with no doctorate and little debt. Even if you lose your job, there are plenty of other opportunities. Meanwhile I know for a fact if I lose my job now I will probably spend months looking, applying for other state licenses, having to move across the country, etc.

I don't agree with "pharmacy jobs aren't going anywhere". Look everywhere and all you see is cuts. Not just retail, but my hospital is looking to cut pharmacist positions too. Meanwhile tech is an ever growing industry. Those software engineers are needed to write software that will eventually replace pharmacists.
 
Anyone that keeps saying IT should bash their head into the walls until you can't.

IT is NOT the same as software developer / software engineer. No body cares about IT.
 
You only need to see how those in each profession are treated. Software engineers have been showered with lavish perks, i.e. catered gourmet meals, on-site gym and laundry, employee shuttles, on-site pet and child daycares, etc. and now privileges to work from home, whereas pharmacists are lucky to even get a lunch break and PPE during a pandemic.
 
I have no interest in Monday-Friday 8-5 jobs if I have a choice. I like my freedom.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
I can't agree with people that are saying CS or IT is so much better but it is true that pharmacy is a dying career. Not even sure if comparing a medical profession to a non-medical profession is a good idea.

1. No other medical profession has zero growth prediction outcome for the next 10-15 years.

2. No other medical profession has ultra super captain america type of over saturation pharmacy has. Schools now just realizing they fawked up yet they don't know what to do to fix the problem. They are forced to close and layoff professors. Most of these professors and admins don't know what the problem is because they're so disconnected with the real world. They have zero clue that #3 is killing our profession.

3. No other medical profession has let other entities such as PBMs and insurance companies, take absolute control over their profession. I mean just dominating the fawk out of it and we are being completely cu@ked. Unknown and unpredictable DIR fees, unfair reimbursements, s#!tty PBM contracts forcing patients to go mail-order or "preferred" pharmacies taking away patient's freedom to choose.

Hell, I can go on all day but just on those above three should be enough to tell you this profession has no future.

Doctors, nurses, PAs, dentists, respiratory therapists, chiropractors, hospital janitors, lab technicians, hospital cafeteria workers have better future outcomes than us.
Click to expand...
I mean Physicians have a better outcome, but not by much. Physicians also have allowed insurance and HMO groups and Big Pharma to dictate how they should practice medicine and allowed NPs and PAs to replace them and allowed the outsourcing of their degree to allow foreign doctors to come in.
 
Pronounce Doxazosin said:
US retail pharamacy job is far far far different from a third world country blue-collar job
Click to expand...
Went to Thailand with my ex gf a few years ago and got a massage at a really nice place for really cheap. They have WAY better life and job than we do... I wanted to open up a spa in Thailand I kid you not. Hell, I wouldn't mind living in Korea teaching english. Probably make just as much and have a better life there too. Granted, Korea is not a third world country but still, life as a chain retail pharmacist must be one of the worst.
 
Rx1992 said:
I mean Physicians have a better outcome, but not by much. Physicians also have allowed insurance and HMO groups and Big Pharma to dictate how they should practice medicine and allowed NPs and PAs to replace them and allowed the outsourcing of their degree to allow foreign doctors to come in.
Click to expand...
True, every profession i'm sure has issues... but we probably have it the worst all things considered. haha.
 
I think the real clincher is we have it bad FOR THE AMOUNT OF TIME WE WASTED GETTING OUR EDUCATION. Name another profession that regularly gets talked down to by high school educated middle management and is forced to tolerate it. Now that the $$$ is no longer there, there is simply no compelling reason to waste 7+ years of your life on a pharmacy education. There is no respect and never will be. The money was good once, but no longer. The jobs themselves are mind numbingly boring. Job satisfaction is NIL. Did I miss anything?
 
Pharm.C. said:
This is a very important distinction.

IT= high school nerd who like to tinker with computers who got hired at some company for $18 an hour to troubleshoot problems with Windows

Software Engineering=codes software for the big name companies and makes six figures and gets unlimited vacation to sit in an office and work on engaging problems all day
Click to expand...
When software development becomes saturated what will you do? Hoe yourself to another profession/field?
 
The reality is now is a bad time to make a career choice. ANY career choice. Wait until the smoke clears from this pandemic crap and see what is left standing. Jobs that seemed great before might not look the same after....
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
Went to Thailand with my ex gf a few years ago and got a massage at a really nice place for really cheap. They have WAY better life and job than we do... I wanted to open up a spa in Thailand I kid you not. Hell, I wouldn't mind living in Korea teaching english. Probably make just as much and have a better life there too. Granted, Korea is not a third world country but still, life as a chain retail pharmacist must be one of the worst.
Click to expand...
Going on vacation somewhere is way different than actually living there full time.
 
Pharm.C. said:
This is a very important distinction.

IT= high school nerd who like to tinker with computers who got hired at some company for $18 an hour to troubleshoot problems with Windows

Software Engineering=codes software for the big name companies and makes six figures and gets unlimited vacation to sit in an office and work on engaging problems all day
Click to expand...

IT can easily make over $40 an hour, and sometimes more if on contract.

Software engineer’s job isn’t as glamorous as you think. Otherwise you wouldn’t be called “code monkey”. Unlimited vacation? Lol

No where in corporate America you get paid big bucks just to chill.
 
Chrish said:
Unlimited vacation? Lol

No where in corporate America you get paid big bucks just to chill.
Click to expand...

Yes this is very common now. Of course if you don't get the work done, your boss will be on your ass. But if you produce results then go ahead and take vacation.

www.themuse.com

Unlimited Vacation Policy? What You Should Know

More and more companies are offering their employees unlimited vacation time—but what does that really mean?
www.themuse.com www.themuse.com

My sister works in cybersecurity (not engineering) and her company has this policy. She probably takes 2-3 vacations per year because that's all she needs. Some of her coworkers take 6-7 vacations per year.

There's much more out there in the world besides pharmacy.
 
mentos said:
Yes this is very common now. Of course if you don't get the work done, your boss will be on your ass. But if you produce results then go ahead and take vacation.

www.themuse.com

Unlimited Vacation Policy? What You Should Know

More and more companies are offering their employees unlimited vacation time—but what does that really mean?
www.themuse.com www.themuse.com

My sister works in cybersecurity (not engineering) and her company has this policy. She probably takes 2-3 vacations per year because that's all she needs. Some of her coworkers take 6-7 vacations per year.

There's much more out there in the world besides pharmacy.
Click to expand...

So even though you're aware of the perks offered to tech professionals (at least at some companies), you'd still advise someone to get a BFE retail pharmacist job instead of spending an extra 3 or 4 months to complete a bootcamp and qualify for a position that could very well offer the perks you're referencing?

Honestly, it sounds like the only case someone could make for why they think someone should go for the BFE retail pharmacist job instead of CS/cybersecurity/data science is to simply make some... as in ANY use of the pharmacy education so as to not waste it entirely.
 
Don't know anything about CS-have to go back and read all our you guys' posts. I just think that pharmacy and healthcare in general just have a lot of inefficiencies. Just a lot of people who are there who shouldn't be there, i.e., incompetent, inconsiderate, flat out lazy or too hell bent on doing it the old way.
 
Hedgehog32 said:
So even though you're aware of the perks offered to tech professionals (at least at some companies), you'd still advise someone to get a BFE retail pharmacist job instead of spending an extra 3 or 4 months to complete a bootcamp and qualify for a position that could very well offer the perks you're referencing?

Honestly, it sounds like the only case someone could make for why they think someone should go for the BFE retail pharmacist job instead of CS/cybersecurity/data science is to simply make some... as in ANY use of the pharmacy education so as to not waste it entirely.
Click to expand...

The perks I'm referring to are for people with 4 year degrees. Not sure if employees who did boot camp get the same positions as software engineers, I doubt it.

If someone spent 4 years in pharmacy school and had 6 figures of debt then yes I would recommend working any Rph job they can get and do it for a few years until the loans are paid off.
 
Hedgehog32 said:
So even though you're aware of the perks offered to tech professionals (at least at some companies), you'd still advise someone to get a BFE retail pharmacist job instead of spending an extra 3 or 4 months to complete a bootcamp and qualify for a position that could very well offer the perks you're referencing?

Honestly, it sounds like the only case someone could make for why they think someone should go for the BFE retail pharmacist job instead of CS/cybersecurity/data science is to simply make some... as in ANY use of the pharmacy education so as to not waste it entirely.
Click to expand...
You can get a job in BFE as a pharmacist. That's a perk that a software engineer doesn't have. Away from corona virus.
 
mentos said:
The perks I'm referring to are for people with 4 year degrees. Not sure if employees who did boot camp get the same positions as software engineers, I doubt it.

If someone spent 4 years in pharmacy school and had 6 figures of debt then yes I would recommend working any Rph job they can get and do it for a few years until the loans are paid off.
Click to expand...

It actually depends on the specific bootcamp program; some of them (such as Hack Reactor) subject their students to a more rigorous curriculum that prepares them for engineering positions. These are the most competitive bootcamp programs to get accepted to, though. There are also bootcamp programs for people who want to become data scientists or cybersecurity specialists (trying to figure out which path I want to take).
 
Momus said:
You can get a job in BFE as a pharmacist. That's a perk that a software engineer doesn't have. Away from corona virus.
Click to expand...

Well, that's got to be one of the most extreme examples of the whole "one man's trash..." saying
 
Hedgehog32 said:
So even though you're aware of the perks offered to tech professionals (at least at some companies), you'd still advise someone to get a BFE retail pharmacist job instead of spending an extra 3 or 4 months to complete a bootcamp and qualify for a position that could very well offer the perks you're referencing?

Honestly, it sounds like the only case someone could make for why they think someone should go for the BFE retail pharmacist job instead of CS/cybersecurity/data science is to simply make some... as in ANY use of the pharmacy education so as to not waste it entirely.
Click to expand...

kitcheck.com

Careers - Bluesight

Bluesight is growing and constantly looking to hire new talent. Check out our open positions and what our employees think about Bluesight.
kitcheck.com kitcheck.com

perfect type of niche for a pharmacy educated coder to get into.

There’s a shortage of over 1 million software developers over the next decade, and pharmacy is actually SHRINKING by 100 jobs lol. Couldn’t make this ish up LOL, look up the labor bureau statistics
 
Medicineman23 said:
kitcheck.com

Careers - Bluesight

Bluesight is growing and constantly looking to hire new talent. Check out our open positions and what our employees think about Bluesight.
kitcheck.com kitcheck.com

perfect type of niche for a pharmacy educated coder to get into.

There’s a shortage of over 1 million software developers over the next decade, and pharmacy is actually SHRINKING by 100 jobs lol. Couldn’t make this ish up LOL, look up the labor bureau statistics
Click to expand...

Makes sense. Pharmacies are closing, not expanding. Everyone's 401k took a big cut, so old pharmacists are not retiring anytime soon. Not surprised.

Yet pre-pharms think the job market will "correct itself" by the time they graduate in 2024 and beyond. What they don't realize is that the job market is already correcting itself. We have been overpaid for the past decade and now wages are coming back to reality.
 
mentos said:
Makes sense. Pharmacies are closing, not expanding. Everyone's 401k took a big cut, so old pharmacists are not retiring anytime soon. Not surprised.

Yet pre-pharms think the job market will "correct itself" by the time they graduate in 2024 and beyond. What they don't realize is that the job market is already correcting itself. We have been overpaid for the past decade and now wages are coming back to reality.
Click to expand...

I try not to all doom and gloom but that pay rate thread says it all. It’s like things are moving at light speed now, I don’t even want to guess a 2024 graduate pay rate
 
mentos said:
Makes sense. Pharmacies are closing, not expanding. Everyone's 401k took a big cut, so old pharmacists are not retiring anytime soon. Not surprised.

Yet pre-pharms think the job market will "correct itself" by the time they graduate in 2024 and beyond. What they don't realize is that the job market is already correcting itself. We have been overpaid for the past decade and now wages are coming back to reality.
Click to expand...
I had the same hopes that the market would correct itself by the time I graduated. That was nearly a decade ago. Ah, to be young and naive again.
 
Chrish said:
IT can easily make over $40 an hour, and sometimes more if on contract.

Software engineer’s job isn’t as glamorous as you think. Otherwise you wouldn’t be called “code monkey”. Unlimited vacation? Lol

No where in corporate America you get paid big bucks just to chill.
Click to expand...

Yup....CS is definitely a good field overall, but it isn't all candy and rainbows. Most of my friends that are doing well in a CS field are either constantly cycling jobs/getting laid off and have little job security, or have periods of little work interspersed with 100+hr work weeks as a salaried worker.
 
Momus said:
You can get a job in BFE as a pharmacist. That's a perk that a software engineer doesn't have. Away from corona virus.
Click to expand...
Not true. There is no advantage that pharmacy has over CS. A software developer can still work in rural hospital and will probably get paid more than a pharmacist. A software developer can live in rural area and work for the military , Area 51. A software developer can work for the local news network. And all those job descriptions are full time. In contrast, pharmacists are fighting for part time jobs in the BFE
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Momus said:
You can get a job in BFE as a pharmacist. That's a perk that a software engineer doesn't have. Away from corona virus.
Click to expand...

See my post. I have two friends that can work anywhere in the world as long as there's internet.
 
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