Is the University of Toronto considered an elite medical school?

[yogabbagabba]

As above.

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[Psai]

I dunno. I hear it's hard to get into canadian schools in general

 

[Petrichor1]

yea it is. The only reason canadian unis don't get a lot of notice is they are mostly large publics and people automatically think it's easy to get in. Unfortunately and contrarily, their medical school gpa cutoff is really high.

 

[yogabbagabba]

How difficult are Canadian schools to get into? Do they also take the MCAT? Some other test? What are their average GPAs and MCATs (if they take it)?

Yes they take the MCAT. Here are the admissions statistics page from U of T: http://www.md.utoronto.ca/admissions/statistics.htm

Most recent numbers for U of T - average GPA: 3.96/ MCAT: 33 / Acceptance rate: 7.4%

 

[davisfenos]

UofT med also has a weighting formula that helps applicants boost their GPA if eligible. I believe it's something like "drop the lowest course from each semester/year" or something. I'm not overly familiar with Toronto because my GPA is nowhere near good enough, even if I was eligible.

 

[torontopharm]

How difficult are Canadian schools to get into? Do they also take the MCAT? Some other test? What are their average GPAs and MCATs (if they take it)?

It's harder in the sense that you can't make up one part of your app with another. If you miss the cutoff for even one section on your MCAT, you're out, despite a very high MCAT or high GPA. US med school admissions are much more holistic/realistic/how it should be in my opinion.

 

[yogabbagabba]

MCAT isn't that impressive, compared to top US schools.

Also isn't Canadian GPA on a completely different scale?

Yeah, it's on a 4.0 scale.

 

[justadream]

No I would not consider it elite in the US.

My definition of elite is at least top 20 level (and in a stricter sense, Harvard/Hopkins/UCSF/Penn/Stanford/Yale/WashU level schools).

Also, acceptance rate info is the most useless statistic in medical school admissions. GT has a lower acceptance rate than HMS. But HMS >>> GT in "elite" status comparisons.

 

[yogabbagabba]

No I would not consider it elite in the US.

My definition of elite is at least top 20 level (and in a stricter sense, Harvard/Hopkins/UCSF/Penn/Stanford/Yale/WashU level schools).

Also, acceptance rate info is the most useless statistic in medical school admissions. GT has a lower acceptance rate than HMS. But HMS >>> GT in "elite" status comparisons.

According to the most recent iteration of the Timeshighereducation rankings in clinical, pre-clinical and health (https://www.timeshighereducation.co...inical-pre-clinical-health#!/page/0/length/25), U of T ranked 11th in the world, higher even than Yale, UPenn, WashU, and UCSF. QS rankings similarly place it at 12th in the world, so it is at least at the top 20 level in terms of their methodology. However, I do realize that these rankings may not be ranking the schools by level of eliteness, so can you expand on your thoughts about why you would not consider it elite?

 

[NewHorizons]

No I would not consider it elite in the US.

My definition of elite is at least top 20 level (and in a stricter sense, Harvard/Hopkins/UCSF/Penn/Stanford/Yale/WashU level schools).

Also, acceptance rate info is the most useless statistic in medical school admissions. GT has a lower acceptance rate than HMS. But HMS >>> GT in "elite" status comparisons.

UofT rivals top 20s... maybe it's not at the level of HMS and what not but all Canadian schools are well above average.

Not sure where people are so misinformed to put down Canadian medical schools. It's much harder to get into one Canadian school vs an American one.

 

[eteshoe]

I was under the assumption that U of Toronto and McGill were the top schools in Canada. I may be wrong.

 

[yogabbagabba]

I was under the assumption that U of Toronto and McGill were the top schools in Canada. I may be wrong.

I believe they are, but I am curious about how they match up to schools in other countries, namely the US and UK.

 

[eteshoe]

I believe they are, but I am curious about how they match up to schools in other countries, namely the US and UK.

It's hard to compare against european schools since they have a completely different system. I suppose the top schools in the US/Canada are comparable to top UK schools in the sense that the doctors they produce tend to be highly skilled and driven.

 

[justadream]

According to the most recent iteration of the Timeshighereducation rankings in clinical, pre-clinical and health (https://www.timeshighereducation.co...inical-pre-clinical-health#!/page/0/length/25), U of T ranked 11th in the world, higher even than Yale, UPenn, WashU, and UCSF. QS rankings similarly place it at 12th in the world, so it is at least at the top 20 level in terms of their methodology. However, I do realize that these rankings may not be ranking the schools by level of eliteness.

The reality is that nobody in real life cares about those rankings at all. Also, why are you even using rankings of pre-clinical health? That is not medicine. But even overlooking that...

Elite status (aka as "prestige") is based on perception. Nobody (at least in the US) is going to perceive U of T to be on the same level as Yale/Penn/WashU/UCSF.

You could show me 100 different rankings with HMS being ranked worst in each one. However, at the end of the day, for the things that matter (e.g., jobs, residencies, etc.), HMS will always be considered elite because of its perception - not because it its placement in any ranking.

UofT rivals top 20s... maybe it's not at the level of HMS and what not but all Canadian schools are well above average.

Not sure where people are so misinformed to put down Canadian medical schools. It's much harder to get into one Canadian school vs an American one.

This argument isn't about whether it is harder to get into one Canadian medical school vs. an American one. It's also not about whether Canadian schools are above average. A random school ranked say, #55, would technically be above average but I would hardly consider that "elite." This is about about whether U of T is considered elite (in the US). It's not. I highly doubt residency directors (esp at top programs) will look at the prestige from U of T as a "boost" for one's admissions chances. On the other hand, the prestige from HMS would be a boost.

 

[Guccitwotimes]

Any canadian med school should be considered elite because of how ridiculously hard they are to get into.

 

[sacholiver]

yes:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/clinical-medicine

 

[justadream]

Any canadian med school should be considered elite because of how ridiculously hard they are to get into.

That could be because
1) The applicant pool in Canada is weaker. Most of the top applicants in the US do not apply to Canadian schools.
2) Perhaps there are a lot fewer medical schools in Canada?

According to the most recent iteration of the Timeshighereducation rankings in clinical, pre-clinical and health (https://www.timeshighereducation.co...inical-pre-clinical-health#!/page/0/length/25), U of T ranked 11th in the world, higher even than Yale, UPenn, WashU, and UCSF. QS rankings similarly place it at 12th in the world, so it is at least at the top 20 level in terms of their methodology. However, I do realize that these rankings may not be ranking the schools by level of eliteness, so can you expand on your thoughts about why you would not consider it elite?

Another thing to recognize is that just in general, degrees from outside the US (exceptions being the notable European schools like Oxford and Cambridge and a few others) are often not really respected. For example, IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) and Peking University are the like respective "Harvard's" of India and China in terms of prestige in those counties. The admission standards are ridiculous. Yet in the US, there would be tons of American schools (that are all probably a lot easier to get into) that would be considered more prestigious than are IIT and Peking.

 

[sacholiver]

The reality is that nobody in real life cares about those rankings at all. Also, why are you even using rankings of pre-clinical health? That is not medicine. But even overlooking that...

Elite status (aka as "prestige") is based on perception. Nobody (at least in the US) is going to perceive U of T to be on the same level as Yale/Penn/WashU/UCSF.

You could show me 100 different rankings with HMS being ranked worst in each one. However, at the end of the day, for the things that matter (e.g., jobs, residencies, etc.), HMS will always be considered elite because of its perception - not because it its placement in any ranking.



This argument isn't about whether it is harder to get into one Canadian medical school vs. an American one. It's also not about whether Canadian schools are above average. A random school ranked say, #55, would technically be above average but I would hardly consider that "elite." This is about about whether U of T is considered elite (in the US). It's not. I highly doubt residency directors (esp at top programs) will look at the prestige from U of T as a "boost" for one's admissions chances. On the other hand, the prestige from HMS would be a boost.

Wrong.

 

[justadream]

yes:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/clinical-medicine

I didn't know MIT (#13) had a medical school.

But let's take this ranking at face-value.

So you actually think residency program directors will think U of T > Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford?

 

[sacholiver]

I didn't know MIT (#13) had a medical school.

But let's take this ranking at face-value.

So you actually think residency program directors will think U of T > Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford?

It's probably talking about the MD/Ph.D program that is run through Harvard/MIT.

And yes.

 

[eteshoe]

A PI in my department trained at McGill (another top tier Canadian school) and he had no issues doing well during his residency at Harvard. So with that anecdotal evidence, I would think that residency PDs would definitely not look down at U of T.

 

[summergirl]

U of T has a very low MCAT average for their matriculants (compared to elite schools in the US) because it really deemphasize it in their admission's process. It has a cut-off of 9/9/9 and many people agree that as long as you get above this cut-off, everyone is equal, at least in terms of the MCAT part of the application. On the other hand, it strongly emphasizes GPA and research. I think the average matriculation had a GPA of 3.94 or something last year? Schools in Canada have weird (and in my opinion totally un-holistic) ways of choosing people. Like Western sets it's MCAT cut-off at 130 for CARS this year. Last year it was 12 in BS and 11 in VR. But it has a relatively lower GPA cut-off of 3.7 in your best two full-time years with at least 60% courses at your year level or above. Ottawa has a GPA cut-off of 3.85 for in-province and 3.87 for out-of-province, and disregard the MCAT completely. Honestly one of the biggest reasons I want to get into an US school is that I don't want my children to suffer through this weird selection process into professional schools should they choose to pursue that.

 

[sacholiver]

U of T has a very low MCAT average for their matriculants (compared to elite schools in the US) because it really deemphasize it in their admission's process. It has a cut-off of 9/9/9 and many people agree that as long as you get above this cut-off, everyone is equal, at least in terms of the MCAT part of the application. On the other hand, it strongly emphasizes GPA and research. I think the average matriculation had a GPA of 3.94 or something last year? Schools in Canada have weird (and in my opinion totally un-holistic) ways of choosing people. Like Western sets it's MCAT cut-off at 130 for CARS this year. Last year it was 12 in BS and 11 in VR. But it has a relatively lower GPA cut-off of 3.7 in your best two full-time years with at least 60% courses at your year level or above. Ottawa has a GPA cut-off of 3.85 for in-province and 3.87 for out-of-province, and disregard the MCAT completely. Honestly one of the biggest reasons I want to get into an US school is that I don't want my children to suffer through this weird selection process into professional schools should they choose to pursue that.

No.

 

[sacholiver]

A PI in my department trained at McGill (another top tier Canadian school) and he had no issues doing well during his residency at Harvard. So with that anecdotal evidence, I would think that residency PDs would definitely not look down at U of T.

McGill is also a very good medical school from Canada.

 

[summergirl]

No.

?

 

[justadream]

?

He's trolling. Don't mind him.

 

[sacholiver]

He's trolling. Don't mind him.

Not at all. They're making a lot of assumptions and having a typical arrogant American attitude about things. U of T is a world renowned medical school - get over it.

 

[summergirl]

Not at all. They're making a lot of assumptions and having a typical arrogant American attitude about things. U of T is a world renowned medical school - get over it.

If my post was a CARS passage, you just failed. You can tell I am Canadian by the last sentence. The thesis of my post was that schools in Canada have weird admission processes. I did not comment on the quality of its medical education.

 

[sacholiver]

If my post was a CARS passage, you just failed. You can tell I am Canadian by the last sentence. The thesis of my post was that schools in Canada have weird admission processes. I did not comment on the quality of its medical education.

Got a 132 CARS thnx

Honesty didn't read all of your post, though. So I did miss your "thesis". I stopped reading after you were rambling about GPA stuff

 

[Guccitwotimes]

That could be because
1) The applicant pool in Canada is weaker. Most of the top applicants in the US do not apply to Canadian schools.
2) Perhaps there are a lot fewer medical schools in Canada?



Another thing to recognize is that just in general, degrees from outside the US (exceptions being the notable European schools like Oxford and Cambridge and a few others) are often not really respected. For example, IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) and Peking University are the like respective "Harvard's" of India and China in terms of prestige in those counties. The admission standards are ridiculous. Yet in the US, there would be tons of American schools (that are all probably a lot easier to get into) that would be considered more prestigious than are IIT and Peking.

With the gpas and mcats required for canadian med schools I have to say that the average high caliber canadian med school applicant can kick most US' applicants' asses, seriously. Canadian med school interview processes are far more ridiculous, like McMasters', who is almost single-handedly responsible for the ridiculous MMIs a lot of med schools use (you'll even see that a lot of MMI prompts at schools you interview at have a copyright McMaster written on it).

 

[NewHorizons]

With the gpas and mcats required for canadian med schools I have to say that the average high caliber canadian med school applicant can kick most US' applicants' asses, seriously. Canadian med school interview processes are far more ridiculous, like McMasters', who is almost single-handedly responsible for the ridiculous MMIs a lot of med schools use (you'll even see that a lot of MMI prompts at schools you interview at have a copyright McMaster written on it).

Just the typical American looking down on Canadians ... nothing new for medicine and everything else.

Fortunately most Canadians don't want to practice there anyways so there's no real problem.

 

[yogabbagabba]

The reality is that nobody in real life cares about those rankings at all. Also, why are you even using rankings of pre-clinical health? That is not medicine. But even overlooking that...

Elite status (aka as "prestige") is based on perception. Nobody (at least in the US) is going to perceive U of T to be on the same level as Yale/Penn/WashU/UCSF.

You could show me 100 different rankings with HMS being ranked worst in each one. However, at the end of the day, for the things that matter (e.g., jobs, residencies, etc.), HMS will always be considered elite because of its perception - not because it its placement in any ranking.

I disagree. A school's elite status is largely based on reputation, and reputation is largely based on rankings. Perception is also largely subjective, and people are usually fixated on numbers and rankings. People perceive these rankings to hold some sort of value, and over time, will adjust what they perceive to be elite to match the rankings, either subconsciously or consciously. It seems laughable that you imply that ranking does not influence perception - if HMS dropped down to 50th on rankings for 5-10 years, you can be pretty sure it will lose most (if not all) of its elite status in the eyes of the people.

 

[darkjedi]

Not at all. They're making a lot of assumptions and having a typical arrogant American attitude about things. U of T is a world renowned medical school - get over it.

you seem salty, thats not very canadian like

 

[bcemslayer]

MCAT isn't that impressive, compared to top US schools.

Also isn't Canadian GPA on a completely different scale?

applying to Ontario schools actually butchers your GPA, because they make an A a 3.9 and A+ a 4.0, so a 3.96 entering GPA is sky high

I was under the assumption that U of Toronto and McGill were the top schools in Canada. I may be wrong.

Too bad McGill is on probation haha

 

[darkjedi]

I disagree. A school's elite status is largely based on reputation, and reputation is largely based on rankings. Perception is also largely subjective, and people are usually fixated on numbers and rankings. People perceive these rankings to hold some sort of value, and over time, will adjust what they perceive to be elite to match the rankings, either subconsciously or consciously. It seems laughable that you imply that ranking does not influence perception - if HMS dropped down to 50th on rankings for 5-10 years, you can be pretty sure it will lose most (if not all) of its elite status in the eyes of the people.

I think you are just arguing over semantics. Justadream could have very well meant repuation in lieu of perception.

Rankings are roughly correlated with perception/reputation, but obviously not perfect. Just look at Mayo Clinic, which is probably one of the best hospitals and training in the world, but their med school is ranked in the low 20s. For people in medicine, theres zero question in anyone's mind that Mayo Clinic is equally as 'elite' as the other schools mentioned here. Maybe for premeds the USNews rankings matter a lot, but once you're in the world of medicine, people are generally aware of the reputations of top places, regardless of what some rankings may say.

 

[Mad Jack]

I disagree. A school's elite status is largely based on reputation, and reputation is largely based on rankings. Perception is also largely subjective, and people are usually fixated on numbers and rankings. People perceive these rankings to hold some sort of value, and over time, will adjust what they perceive to be elite to match the rankings, either subconsciously or consciously. It seems laughable that you imply that ranking does not influence perception - if HMS dropped down to 50th on rankings for 5-10 years, you can be pretty sure it will lose most (if not all) of its elite status in the eyes of the people.

Most people don't even know rankings exist, they're just a thing between other physicians and medical students. The average person sees "Yale" on your residency certificate and they just assume it's elite, even though many Yale residencies are so-so. The same would go for Harvard-they could be rank 100, no one in the public would give a damn, they'd just hear Harvard.

Now, as to OP's question, any Canadian medical student is elite in my book, the competition up north is crazy. The public, however, has no such perception.

 

[yogabbagabba]

Most people don't even know rankings exist, they're just a thing between other physicians and medical students. The average person sees "Yale" on your residency certificate and they just assume it's elite, even though many Yale residencies are so-so. The same would go for Harvard-they could be rank 100, no one in the public would give a damn, they'd just hear Harvard.

I can agree with that, but my original question loses its substantiveness if we are talking about categorizing the elite as per the public eye - I'm more concerned with the physicians and the medical students, as well as the informed, as that's what matters at the end of the day. I don't really care about what the Joe from down the street thinks about school x, partly because his opinion is most likely uninformed and is constructed on identifying "brand"-name schools (as you stated). I should have made that assumption clearer.

 

[yogabbagabba]

I think you are just arguing over semantics. Justadream could have very well meant repuation in lieu of perception.

Rankings are roughly correlated with perception/reputation, but obviously not perfect. Just look at Mayo Clinic, which is probably one of the best hospitals and training in the world, but their med school is ranked in the low 20s. For people in medicine, theres zero question in anyone's mind that Mayo Clinic is equally as 'elite' as the other schools mentioned here. Maybe for premeds the USNews rankings matter a lot, but once you're in the world of medicine, people are generally aware of the reputations of top places, regardless of what some rankings may say.

Yes I do agree that perception and reputation are semantically similar, but I was more so arguing that elitism is based on perception, and perception is to a degree based on rankings. This is of course assuming that rankings are accurate in what they purport to measure (i.e. domains that are significant for assessing a school's competency), as people's perceptions will ultimately fluctuate with a school's competency. For example, a top Canadian med school (McGill) was recently placed on academic probation, and without a doubt, perceptions about its competency - and by proxy - elite state, have changed.

Justadream was saying otherwise - that perception is independent of rankings. Both you and I agree that rankings are roughly correlated with perception/reputation, but there are obviously outliers (like Mayo); in the long run however, I believe many of these cases will align in terms of rankings and perceptions.

 

[justadream]

I disagree. A school's elite status is largely based on reputation, and reputation is largely based on rankings. Perception is also largely subjective, and people are usually fixated on numbers and rankings. People perceive these rankings to hold some sort of value, and over time, will adjust what they perceive to be elite to match the rankings, either subconsciously or consciously. It seems laughable that you imply that ranking does not influence perception - if HMS dropped down to 50th on rankings for 5-10 years, you can be pretty sure it will lose most (if not all) of its elite status in the eyes of the people.

I agree that rankings will influence perception over the long-term but current perception >>> any given ranking in the short term.

For example, if HMS was ranked #3 tomorrow, that would not matter in the short-term. Everyone would still consider HMS #1 in terms of perception. Now if HMS dropped to #100 for 100 years in a row, that's a different story.

But you must admit that the rankings that people brought up in this thread are not really relevant to the discussion.

With the gpas and mcats required for canadian med schools I have to say that the average high caliber canadian med school applicant can kick most US' applicants' asses, seriously. Canadian med school interview processes are far more ridiculous, like McMasters', who is almost single-handedly responsible for the ridiculous MMIs a lot of med schools use (you'll even see that a lot of MMI prompts at schools you interview at have a copyright McMaster written on it).

In this thread, we are comparing Canadian schools to ELITE US Schools (think HMS).

So I should clarify:

The top applicants to US Schools >>> the top applicants to Canadian schools.

It's simply a matter of the US having more students, having better students (since there are so many elite colleges in the US - as in, there are plenty more schools at McGill level and better in the US), and the US being probably the top "destination country" for students. Top US applicants rarely apply to Canadian schools (except for more uncommon situations like you have family there) whereas top [insert any country here] applicants often apply to US schools because the top US schools are better.

I mean just look at the students at U of T (supposedly the best or close to it in Canada). The average MCAT = 33. The average MCAT at most if not all top 20 school in the US is around 36+.

 

[Mad Jack]

I can agree with that, but my original question loses its substantiveness if we are talking about categorizing the elite as per the public eye - I'm more concerned with the physicians and the medical students, as well as the informed, as that's what matters at the end of the day. I don't really care about what the Joe from down the street thinks about school x, partly because his opinion is most likely uninformed and is constructed on identifying "brand"-name schools (as you stated). I should have made that assumption clearer.

People fill your practice, not other physicians. Hence their opinion of you is largely more important than that of your colleagues. You'll spend far more time with patients than other doctors...

 

[Lucca]

From a biomedical science perspective I can tell you that everyone really respects the Canadian Medical Schools, especially U of T and McGill. Most American schools probably don't compare in terms of prestige until you get to the really famous names.

 

[yogabbagabba]

People fill your practice, not other physicians. Hence their opinion of you is largely more important than that of your colleagues. You'll spend far more time with patients than other doctors...

While true, I don't think people care that much about where their doctor went to school. They care about competence and compassion (and all of the other things on sites like RateMyMD), and that is what largely forms their opinion of you.

 

[yogabbagabba]

I agree that rankings will influence perception over the long-term but current perception >>> any given ranking in the short term.

For example, if HMS was ranked #3 tomorrow, that would not matter in the short-term. Everyone would still consider HMS #1 in terms of perception. Now if HMS dropped to #100 for 100 years in a row, that's a different story.

But you must admit that the rankings that people brought up in this thread are not really relevant to the discussion.

I don't think perceptions take 100 years to equilibriate with rankings- more like 5-10. U of T has been in the top 20 for that long at least.

In this thread, we are comparing Canadian schools to ELITE US Schools (think HMS).

So I should clarify:

The top applicants to US Schools >>> the top applicants to Canadian schools.

It's simply a matter of the US having more students, having better students (since there are so many elite colleges in the US - as in, there are plenty more schools at McGill level and better in the US), and the US being probably the top "destination country" for students. Top US applicants rarely apply to Canadian schools (except for more uncommon situations like you have family there) whereas top [insert any country here] applicants often apply to US schools because the top US schools are better.

I mean just look at the students at U of T (supposedly the best or close to it in Canada). The average MCAT = 33. The average MCAT at most if not all top 20 school in the US is around 36+.

When did this become a thread about HMS vs U of T? There's definitely a spectrum of applicant quality between the highest ranked elite school (HMS) and the lowest, just like there's a difference between HMS and the lowest elite school in terms of eliteness. Im not denying that HMS > UofT, just that UofT > lowest elite school. That's the question originally asked.

 

[Mad Jack]

While true, I don't think people care that much about where their doctor went to school. They care about competence and compassion (and all of the other things on sites like RateMyMD), and that is what largely forms their opinion of you.

Depends on your field, generally. People tend to be wowed more by surgeons from bug name places than primary care docs from the same.

 

[yogabbagabba]

Depends on your field, generally. People tend to be wowed more by surgeons from bug name places than primary care docs from the same.

Not really. You can be wowed by your surgeon's credentials, but at the end of the day if they mess you up after your surgery or leave you with tons of unanswered questions and concerns, I guarantee that will have a larger effect on your opinion of them.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not really. You can be wowed by your surgeon's credentials, but at the end of the day if they mess you up after your surgery or leave you with tons of unanswered questions and concerns, I guarantee that will have a larger effect on your opinion of them.

Obviously. But most people select their surgeons at the beginning of the day, not the end of it.

 

[yogabbagabba]

Obviously. But most people select their surgeons at the beginning of the day, not the end of it.

Yes, that's also obvious. How do you think people select their doctors? They go on RateMD and not LinkedIn....

However, this is all besides the point and is rather tangential to the original question.

 

[justadream]

I don't think perceptions take 100 years to equilibriate with rankings- more like 5-10. U of T has been in the top 20 for that long at least.



When did this become a thread about HMS vs U of T? There's definitely a spectrum of applicant quality between the highest ranked elite school (HMS) and the lowest, just like there's a difference between HMS and the lowest elite school in terms of eliteness. Im not denying that HMS > UofT, just that UofT > lowest elite school. That's the question originally asked.

Well it depends on what your definition of "elite" is. What do you consider the lowest elite school? Or, to which school do you think U of T is roughly equivalent?

There is at least one person in this thread who thinks U of T is better than Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford. I highly doubt US residency directors would agree.

 

[yogabbagabba]

Well it depends on what your definition of "elite" is. What do you consider the lowest elite school? Or, to which school do you think U of T is roughly equivalent?

There is at least one person in this thread who thinks U of T is better than Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford. I highly doubt US residency directors would agree.

The original question was whether U of T was considered elite, which implies that it need only be considered better than the lowest elite school (and not necessarily Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford). I don't know about the entirety of U.S. schools that are considered elite - or which one would be the lowest elite school - which is why I asked the original question.

Secondly, no one said that U of T was better than Columbia or Stanford - only higher than Penn/Yale in terms of rankings. No conclusion were made about whether this made UofT elite, as the correlation between elite status and ranking is unknown. Again, another part of why I asked the question.

Finally, how can you be so sure as to believe that you know what US residency directors would or would not agree with.

 

[justadream]

The original question was whether U of T was considered elite, which implies that it need only be considered better than the lowest elite school (and not necessarily Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford). I don't know about the entirety of U.S. schools that are considered elite - or which one would be the lowest elite school - which is why I asked the original question.

Secondly, no one said that U of T was better than Columbia or Stanford - only higher than Penn/Yale in terms of rankings. No conclusion were made about whether this made UofT elite, as the correlation between elite status and ranking is unknown. Again, another part of why I asked the question.

Finally, how can you be so sure as to believe that you know what US residency directors would or would not agree with.

That one person was sacholiver (see post #22 in this thread). The rankings referred to in this thread are not a ranking of medical schools (after all, MIT does not have a medical school and it is included).

I expressed my doubt that residency directors would view U of T as better than Penn/Yale/Columbia/Stanford. This is just derived from common sense. Of course I can't know for sure what they would think. But I highly doubt that sacholver's view would be the prevailing view. It's not that radical to think U of T would NOT be considered better than those schools in terms of prestige...

Which brings up another point - if you need to ask the question, then chances are, the school is not elite. It's rare to see a question like "Is Penn elite?" because the answer is self-evident. Additionally, if there is controversy over the school's supposed "eliteness," then the school is probably not elite.

You clearly believe U of T is elite. So I'm not even sure why you asked the question.