1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

Is this allowed???

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by NYMC MD 2B, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. NYMC MD 2B

    NYMC MD 2B Member
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was just wondering (and I am not saying I would do this: it was suggested to me by another person, and I wonder what would happen)...after you have completed your applications, and matriculated, is it possible to view your LORs? Could you get them sent to another address, like of a family member, and see what people wrote about you? Or is this a violation of the honor code?
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. burntfries

    burntfries Senior Member
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    a violation of the honor code?

    um...yes??
     
  4. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
    Administrator Physician PhD Faculty Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    18,888
    Likes Received:
    4,104
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field], Attending Physician
    Did you sign a confidentiality statement agreeing to waive your rights to see the letters? If so, then you don't have any right to see them.
     
  5. NYMC MD 2B

    NYMC MD 2B Member
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again, I have no intention of doing this, but I know someone who was going to try. I never found out what happened to them....I am just curious
     
  6. DrFeelgoodMD

    DrFeelgoodMD below is a TRUE avatar...
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
    i would assume you could....but why would you want to? You are in, so all the crap you had to do to get in shouldn't matter.....just assume that the LORs people sent talked about all the good that is in you. :)

    J
     
  7. NYMC MD 2B

    NYMC MD 2B Member
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0

    Well put. I totally agree. As I said, I just wanted to see what your guys' take on the consequences of such a violation would be? I was wondering what would happen to this nosy person I know.
     
  8. Ema

    Ema Biti ili ne biti?
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I dont want to critisize, but this just plain wrong on so many levels. And... how exactly that would work, sending it to the familly memebers adress? People are not that stupid.... but it looks like .... :D

    What you should do instead is just to ask ifthey would show it to you plain and simple.But, if you already got into school then why bother.
     
  9. MSTP?

    MSTP? Senior Member
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0

    Some of my profs sent me a copy anyways--but I can't bring myself to read em b/c I just dont like reading about myself. In high school, after I was accepted a few teachers gave me copies to use for any future need. All of this was without prompting by me.
     
  10. MattD

    MattD Curmudgeon
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    What specific honor code are we talking about here? Is it some mystical honor code everyone is bound to by nature? Or is there a particular honor code you've signed? If the latter, read it to see if there's anything in there about reading LORs. If not, then there's nothing immoral or wrong about reading your letters provided the writer is ok with you seeing it. Waiving your right to see the letter does NOT make it wrong for you to see it, it simply means that you relinquish the right to view them. As in, before you signed, you had a RIGHT to see the letter, but afterward the writer had the right to withhold it if he/she desired. It doesn't mean it's now forbidden for you to see it if the writer offered to let you. Now, the whole point of waiving your right is so that the writer can be completely frank, and not have to deal with the repercussions of you seeing what was written, so it would probably be bad form for you to go back and now ask to see it. Waiving your right wasn't part of some 'med school application russian roulette' process, it was to protect the writer, so they may not appreciate you asking to see it. But, they also may not care, and print you off a copy to read. There's no need in trying to use some sort of subterfuge, if you really want to see it, just ask the writer if it's ok. I don't think anyone else is going to provide it to you anyway, so that's probably your only option anyway.
     
  11. ParvatiP

    ParvatiP Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I think people are confused here...the OP has already been accepted to medical school, correct? So what does it matter if he (or anyone) wants to look at his LORs? I'm not sure how you would go about this except for asking your profs for a copy. Why you would have them sent to a family member, I don't know though. But, as long as the application process is over I assume that there is no problem with trying to see your LORs. No ethical argument there either, at least to me.
     
  12. DoctorPardi

    DoctorPardi In Memory of Riley Jane
    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,625
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Assuming the agreement he had with his writers was that they were confidential then it matters a lot. The point was the letter writer could be honest and open about his feelings about the applicant. This isn't supposed to be a "confidential until.." type thing. It doesn't matter how long you wait to see the letters, it matters that you never see them.

    Now a lot of writers may not care and might even show them to you before they submit them. If that is the case then fine, there is no problem. It should be the writers right to relinquish confidentiality. If I were a writer and my policy was to keep my letter confidential I would continue to keep them confidential, even after the process is over. Then again, if I were asked to write letters I think I would show them to the applicant.
     
  13. ND2005

    ND2005 1K Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Honor violation?

    Come on. Get serious.

    Tacky to ask to see a copy of a LOR when? Sure.

    Honor violation? Not likely.

    Waiving your right to see a letter doesn't mean that you are not ALLOWED to see it -- it just means your profs aren't obligated to let you see it. If they are cool with showing you the letter, that's fine.
     
  14. DoctorPardi

    DoctorPardi In Memory of Riley Jane
    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,625
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Sure but, it isn't fair to see it by some deceptive means. Getting an LOR sent somewhere for you to read is breaking the agreement. If the professor wants to show you, then sure, that's their right.
     
  15. mvenus929

    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,579
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Random question... can't you ask to see your application file after you matriculate?
     
  16. Dr.TobiasFünke

    Physician 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    You likely signed away your right... looking at them without permission from your teachers or undergrqad school is, technically, against the law. My school is big on honor code... I have no doubt a deceptive act like that would consititute a violation
     
  17. eerapido

    eerapido EagleEyes
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Enjoy medical school, and don't worry about the LORs that helped you get there. Remember, you will need to work on getting more LORs for residency. =)
     
  18. ParvatiP

    ParvatiP Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I mean, technically, yes, you're probably not supposed to look at your LORs ever. But seeing them now is not as taboo as seeing them DURING your app cycle certainly.
     
  19. fullefect1

    fullefect1 Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am going to check mine out to see which ones will work best for research programs during medical school. So I guess I will have them sent over to a friends house or something.. haha. I guess I am a bad person, or lack honor according to some on this board.
     
  20. BuckerPark

    BuckerPark Float on...
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    When you waive your rights to view the letter, you are doing so as an applicant (read the fine print). Although I woudn't suggest being all covert and trying to send your letters to yourself, I think that after you begin school it isn't too far fetched to walk into the admissions office and ask to see your file. Once you matriculate, it is YOUR file.


     
  21. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers
    Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    21,362
    Likes Received:
    26,285
    Status:
    Academic Administration
    You can see your file anytime in accordance with the Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). However, if you waive your right to a part of your file (LORs), then that part is not available to you and will be removed before the file is handed over to you.
     
  22. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers
    Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    21,362
    Likes Received:
    26,285
    Status:
    Academic Administration
    At the time of matriculation, the LORs that the applicant waived access to are removed from the file and destroyed.
     
  23. njbmd

    njbmd Guest
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2001
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    140
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Hi there,
    I signed the waiver for my LORs but every letter writer sent me a copy of my letters. I do the same for individuals who ask me to write a letter for them. If I cannot write a strong letter (meaning that I do not believe that they are a good candidate for the program for which they are requesting the letter), I refuse to write the letter. In reality, are you going to request a letter of recommendation from an individual who cannot say positive things about you? It isn't much an honor code matter, it's just useless exercise. What do you care about what was said in a letter of recommendation if you have been accepted?

    njbmd :)
     
  24. MeBeans

    MeBeans Member
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Just ask the original teachers for copies of the letter.
    (If you want, mention to them you already got in and that you're curious how awesome they pumped up your profile)
     
  25. Quix

    Quix Herr Professor
    Moderator Emeritus 2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,660
    Likes Received:
    7
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Academic Administration
    I admit that I am curious to know what was written, but after being in academia for so long, I don't lose much sleep over it. I received a copy of one of my letters from the writer after he submitted it, but it was an unexpected boon. I'm going to echo the recommendations of others simply to enjoy medical school and not worry about your LORs.
     
  26. ParvatiP

    ParvatiP Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Hmm, that sounds kind of weird...but I guess just in case a bad LOR was written, people don't want to leave that kind of stuff in a file.
     
  27. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,849
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I seriously doubt that's a universal policy across all schools.
    At any rate, once you are in med school, I'm sure the school you matriculated to can show you the letters if they wish (assuming arguendo that they keep a file). But you have no right to demand to see them.
     
  28. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers
    Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    21,362
    Likes Received:
    26,285
    Status:
    Academic Administration
    Actually,if the applicant has signed the waiver, the letters are sent to the medical school with the understanding that they are confidential, for use in the admission process only, and are not to be shared with the applicant.

    Because of the federal law in this area, I suspect there is some uniformity in how medical schools (and all schools) handle student records and LORs.
     
  29. Puddintame

    Puddintame Junior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Academic Administration
    The reference letter service at my institution will no longer send letters to any place other than a verifiable admissions office/department or its equivalent. It's my understanding that this practice is becoming the norm, precisely to avoid the possibility of students getting a look at their letters in this manner.

    I don't know enough to speak to the honor code violation issue; but as a practical matter, if the confidentiality of "confidential" letters is no longer trustworthy then they're not worth a hell of a lot. It matters very little when the subject of the letters gets to see them--it's just no longer possible to assume the letter writer is being frank and honest.
     
  30. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,642
    Likes Received:
    1,767
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Anyone who needs that big an ego boost should just buy a dog.
     
  31. Dr.TobiasFünke

    Physician 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    They were good enough to get you in... why not just forget about it?
     
  32. Dr. Pepper

    Dr. Pepper Duffman in Disguise
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    In addition to defying the signed statement, it's also pretty irrelevant. If the LORs are sent, then they are sent. You can't change it. If they wrote a bad LOR, you will feel devastated and your confidence will take a blow. Furthermore, your recommender might be offended that you asked for the LORs.
    -Dr. P.
     

Share This Page