Is this clinical?

[conflicted0892]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a clinical research coordinator at a big name hospital under a big name PI. My day to day responsibilities include pre-screening patients for our studies (collecting medical histories), running their actual study visits, monitoring patient conditions throughout the study, and documenting results. I also do some psych testing with them. I am worried this will be considered as research because this is my main clinical experience. I feel it is adequate as most of my time is talking with patients and making sure everything goes correctly during the study. I work with a team of nurses, NPs, post docs, and physicians. I attend patient rounds and also get to talk about the patients condition with the research team. I feel like it can really go both ways and just wanted to see everyone else's thoughts.

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[Bored_Conscious]

I believe CRC positions can be counted as either research or clinical hours. Just choose which you want to prioritize.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

For activities that are borderline clinical/nonclinical (e.g., clinical research), the question isn't "do people on SDN think this is clinical?" The question is instead "Can I write about my interactions with patients and physicians in such a way that the reviewer will see this experience as unequivocally clinical?"

I think the default tendency is to categorize "clinical research" as "nonclinical" because these roles (especially at the undergrad level) are so often purely administrative or very limited in actual patient contact. You need to prove to adcoms that your experience was different, that you were seeing/interacting with patients every day rather than just managing data and paperwork like they might expect.

If you are planning to use your research for the entirety of the clinical hours you report on your app, then it's imperative you write rock-solid essays that really hone in on the patient contact aspect of this role. What did you learn about the patients you saw? How does this knowledge inform your pursuit of medicine? What did you learn about the role of the physician in these patients' lives? It's up to you to make the case convincing.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a clinical research coordinator at a big name hospital under a big name PI. My day to day responsibilities include pre-screening patients for our studies (collecting medical histories), running their actual study visits, monitoring patient conditions throughout the study, and documenting results. I also do some psych testing with them. I am worried this will be considered as research because this is my main clinical experience. I feel it is adequate as most of my time is talking with patients and making sure everything goes correctly during the study. I work with a team of nurses, NPs, post docs, and physicians. I attend patient rounds and also get to talk about the patients condition with the research team. I feel like it can really go both ways and just wanted to see everyone else's thoughts.

For activities that are borderline clinical/nonclinical (e.g., clinical research), the question isn't "do people on SDN think this is clinical?" The question is instead "Can I write about my interactions with patients and physicians in such a way that the reviewer will see this experience as unequivocally clinical?"

I think the default tendency is to categorize "clinical research" as "nonclinical" because these roles (especially at the undergrad level) are so often purely administrative or very limited in actual patient contact. You need to prove to adcoms that your experience was different, that you were seeing/interacting with patients every day rather than just managing data and paperwork like they might expect.

If you are planning to use your research for the entirety of the clinical hours you report on your app, then it's imperative you write rock-solid essays that really hone in on the patient contact aspect of this role. What did you learn about the patients you saw? How does this knowledge inform your pursuit of medicine? What did you learn about the role of the physician in these patients' lives? It's up to you to make the case convincing.

That’s very sound advice. Are you involved in medical school admissions?

 

[Bonne Nuit]

That’s very sound advice. Are you involved in medical school admissions?

Not in a formal capacity. However, my school does a large amount of outreach with local premeds, and I regularly participate in these "Ask a med student" panels, med school open houses, Q&A sessions, etc. as a student representative from my school. I also do some mentoring with high school women considering STEM careers, and premed advisors from my undergraduate institution sometimes have me Zoom into meetings with their advisees or premed clubs.

So, while I am not an adcom, I have no voting rights, and I don't have access to any individual application materials, I am required to remain current about the premed process and what my school looks for in their applicants. I also frequently interact with adcoms from both my school and other MD/DO schools in our region at these premed advising events. I pay attention when the other schools in my state give their "Here's what you need to know to get into our school", "Here's how to write a winning essay," "Here's how to get the most out of volunteering/shadowing" talks. Overall, I have a pretty good handle of what's going on in med school admissions on my side of the country.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Not in a formal capacity. However, my school does a large amount of outreach with local premeds, and I regularly participate in these "Ask a med student" panels, med school open houses, Q&A sessions, etc. as a student representative from my school. I also do some mentoring with high school women considering STEM careers, and premed advisors from my undergraduate institution sometimes have me Zoom into meetings with their advisees or premed clubs.

So, while I am not an adcom, I have no voting rights, and I don't have access to any individual application materials, I am required to remain current about the premed process and what my school looks for in their applicants. I also frequently interact with adcoms from both my school and other MD/DO schools in our region at these premed advising events. I pay attention when the other schools in my state give their "Here's what you need to know to get into our school", "Here's how to write a winning essay," "Here's how to get the most out of volunteering/shadowing" talks. Overall, I have a pretty good handle of what's going on in med school admissions on my side of the country.

So is the process as stat driven as it appears from the outside?

Are schools concerned with making offers to students who will accept?

 

[Bonne Nuit]

So is the process as stat driven as it appears from the outside?

Are schools concerned with making offers to students who will accept?

1. Like everything else, it depends. At some schools, they absolutely care about stats. You know which ones they are, because they're the ones that everyone on SDN obsesses over 24/7. But I was honestly floored at how little certain state MD schools care about your stats so long as you meet their minimum GPA/MCAT threshold and align strongly with their mission. I know of 505/3.6 applicants who got in and 520/3.9s who were pre-II rejected in the same cycle from the same state MD school. The matriculant MCAT range that school shared for that cycle was something insane like 501 - 523. No yield protection, but 100% mission protection.

2. Eh, moderately so. Med schools are obviously not going to waste an II on a bad mission fit or an applicant who falls wildly outside their typical stat range. But they have nearly bottomless resources to interview whoever they want and accept whoever they want. Every single school in my state receives thousands more applications than they can ever interview. Adcoms lose precisely zero sleep if a highly desired candidate matriculates elsewhere - they simply move on to the next highly desired candidate on their list. Eventually they fill all 80-200 seats with highly desired candidates. Of course, if an interviewee communicates any kind of disinterest about the program/city, that's essentially an autoreject.

 

[RI-premeder]

Would volunteering at a Nursing / Rehab Facility count as clinical experience? Specifically, helping with the senior patients in various ways.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Would volunteering at a Nursing / Rehab Facility count as clinical experience? Specifically, helping with the senior patients in various ways.

Short answer is that SDN adcoms are somewhat split on this issue. This is probably another borderline activity. I think it depends on the exact "various ways" in which you're helping the seniors.

Without knowing the specifics of your activity, I can only say that my advice to the original poster still stands. What you want out of a clinical experience is: familiarity with US healthcare systems, understanding the patient experience, witnessing physician-patient interactions, determining whether you even like being around sick people, and how you understand your role as a future physician because of the experience.

Not all activities, even some of the traditional "clinical" experiences, will meet this criteria. I'll give you an example: I knew a woman who was encouraged by her premed advisor to start volunteering at the local hospital to strengthen her application. So she did. She threw herself into the volunteering role and spent several hours a week at the facility. However, the problem was that she took the advisor's advice very literally and accepted a position in the hospital cafeteria. Zero patient contact. This is obviously not clinical experience in any way, but if she had just posted on SDN that she had "300 hours hospital volunteering", everyone would have assumed that it was clinical experience. It would only have become apparent that she had 0 clinical hours, not 300, upon reviewing her AMCAS activity description.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Short answer is that SDN adcoms are somewhat split on this issue. This is probably another borderline activity. I think it depends on the exact "various ways" in which you're helping the seniors.

Without knowing the specifics of your activity, I can only say that my advice to the original poster still stands. What you want out of a clinical experience is: familiarity with US healthcare systems, understanding the patient experience, witnessing physician-patient interactions, determining whether you even like being around sick people, and how you understand your role as a future physician because of the experience.

Not all activities, even some of the traditional "clinical" experiences, will meet this criteria. I'll give you an example: I knew a woman who was encouraged by her premed advisor to start volunteering at the local hospital to strengthen her application. So she did. She threw herself into the volunteering role and spent several hours a week at the facility. However, the problem was that she took the advisor's advice very literally and accepted a position in the hospital cafeteria. Zero patient contact. This is obviously not clinical experience in any way, but if she had just posted on SDN that she had "300 hours hospital volunteering", everyone would have assumed that it was clinical experience. It would only have become apparent that she had 0 clinical hours, not 300, upon reviewing her AMCAS activity description.

The following story should probably go in the scary stories thread…

A couple of years ago, a Princeton physics major, 3.8 GPA/525 MCAT, posted in the reapplicant board. No offers and only a handful of interviews (2) over 2 cycles. She seemed to have checked all the boxes, including 500 hours of clinical volunteering ….. all with a text based counseling service ……

I’m not sure if she ever rectified that or got into medical school.

 

[negasi]

Hey, I'm currently a medical assistant, but I miss doing research so much (I did it in undergrad), so I've actually been looking into clinical research coordinator positions. How do you like it? And, how did you find it? Thanks so much

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hey, I'm currently a medical assistant, but I miss doing research so much (I did it in undergrad), so I've actually been looking into clinical research coordinator positions. How do you like it? And, how did you find it? Thanks so much

Do a search under the Indeed website.

 

[negasi]

Do a search under the Indeed website.

I have been! Most of the ones that I'm interested in are just a few states. I def don't mind relocating, because that was the plan anyway. I'm just sort of stuck on when to apply. My lease ends in July, but as we know application cycles can take a long time!

 

[MyOdyssey]

I have been! Most of the ones that I'm interested in are just a few states. I def don't mind relocating, because that was the plan anyway. I'm just sort of stuck on when to apply. My lease ends in July, but as we know application cycles can take a long time!

Be careful about relocating mid-cycle. You don’t want to end up without a home state.

Another option: search the name of the medical school where you want to do research + clinical research.

I just tried it with the following: University of Pittsburgh Medical School research assistant” and found two openings right away being advertised on LinkedIn.

 

[conflicted0892]

Hey, I'm currently a medical assistant, but I miss doing research so much (I did it in undergrad), so I've actually been looking into clinical research coordinator positions. How do you like it? And, how did you find it? Thanks so much

Hi there, I really enjoy it! I found it by emailing PI's I found interesting. Indeed also has a lot of job listings. If you have anymore questions PM me!