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drhoffmann

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So I am trying to narrow down my choice for residency. Pathology is in the lead. As a long time lurker of this thread I know how "taboo" it is to ask about salary. I know approximately how much academic pathologists are compensated but I am wondering if this survey seems accurate for folks in private practice. I am aware that salaries can have a large range. I plan to practice in the south after residency.

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

http://www.merritthawkins.com/pdf/2005_Modern_Healthcare_Physician_Compensation_Review.pdf
 
So I am trying to narrow down my choice for residency. Pathology is in the lead. As a long time lurker of this thread I know how "taboo" it is to ask about salary. I know approximately how much academic pathologists are compensated but I am wondering if this survey seems accurate for folks in private practice. I am aware that salaries can have a large range. I plan to practice in the south after residency.

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

http://www.merritthawkins.com/pdf/2005_Modern_Healthcare_Physician_Compensation_Review.pdf

In academics you'll make six-digits...but the first number will be a "1".
 
Those numbers seem kind of high for all the fields - they are probably including all benefits in with actual salary. If that is true, it's probably more reasonable.
 
The numbers on that survey appear to be high for someone with just a pathology residence. I agree that you will probably be in the $100's not the $200's.

However for a pathologist that completed a fellowship these numbers look about right.
 
The numbers on that survey appear to be high for someone with just a pathology residence. I agree that you will probably be in the $100's not the $200's.

However for a pathologist that completed a fellowship these numbers look about right.

Dunno, I dont think you are credible source. Im not ripping on you completely Jason, but your interests lay in lowering the expectations of outgoing trainees to take whatever scraps you throw em and magnify your cut of the year 1 salary.

Salaries vary alot and many groups if they really want you will negotiate.

My theory is this: figure out what you are worth. If that is 200, 300 or 400, whatever for a full time year. Rationalize why: extra fellowships, star rugby player at Philips Academy or Princeton grad etc... Maybe your father is Al Gore.

Then when a pathology group says "we can only afford 150", reply that 150 buys them X amount of time (70%, 50% etc) and you would be happy to accomodate their budget constraints. Job hunting is like house buying. Find someone in dire straits that absolutely needs to hire someone due to a death or unexpected loss. Get a sense of how at the breaking point the other pathologists are and negotiate from there.

In hindsight, it is probably better to find a good job and spend the time looking then taking a crappy one and hope to move up. Some may have financial constraints that make that impossible, but I would urge caution regardless.

From experience, I would say a solid majority of pathology positions are really crappy. Of 20+ interviews I went on, I would say maybe 2 opportunities really impressed me.

I think there is a fine art to feeling out a position prior to accepting an interview. Playing your hand too hard can really make you seem greedy but not asking any questions can lead potential employers to take advantage of you right off the bat. Once you are behind the eight ball like this it can be very hard if not impossible to negotiate your way out. I have walked out in the middle of an interview trip after realizing I had blown this delicate process early on.

From where I stand now though, I think there is a completely different road to travel on. It involves directly engaging hospitals and pitching your own pathology practice. This can be in the event of a death, retirement or simply loss of the primary services contract by another group. You can also see from ads that some groups are trying to expand their coverage and are recruiting new people to fill a seat at hospital X. Then contact hospital X and offer your services. This requires a special type of pathologist, one that is FAR more rare than the show up to work, suit up and push glass-type of employee.
 
So is it pretty easy to spot the positions that are crappy? Or do many pathologists get stuck into these positions before they realize what they got into?

Do you think that Path has a bigger problem with grads finding good jobs compared to other specialties or is this how the medical field is now?
 
Great post LADoc. Good advice for those of us who are new to this game.
 
So is it pretty easy to spot the positions that are crappy? Or do many pathologists get stuck into these positions before they realize what they got into?

I've seen some people take a 'crappy' job just because of location. I've also seen an FMG fellow where I went to medical school consider a job with ridiculously low pay and long hours just because he didn't have any clue about salary or reasonable expectations about hours.

I hear a lot of path AND non-path people talking about not wanting the hassle of dealing with the 'business' side of things, which I find very hard to understand. If you are not involved in the day to day running of your practice, you essentially have no say about anything. If your immunos suck, if you need a new processor, or if your transcriptionist can't spell for squat, you can complain all you want, but it is the managing partners who will be making the decisions.

After all, if you accept a salary from someone, you are allowing them to make money off of you. I would much rather be paid what I feel I am worth and know that that sum is somewhat directly related to the actual amount of work that I am putting into it. It is an fear of business and management that allows the pod labs and huge national path companies to treat us like gerbils on wheels.
 
So is it pretty easy to spot the positions that are crappy? Or do many pathologists get stuck into these positions before they realize what they got into?

Do you think that Path has a bigger problem with grads finding good jobs compared to other specialties or is this how the medical field is now?

No it isnt easy. And there are very smart people on the other end of the table who will try to make it as difficult as possible for you to spot the turd.

They will dress the turd up in fancy clothes, apply perfume liberally and wine and dine you until you think that turd is Elisha Cuthbert from "The Girl Next Door"..but in reality it is a steaming pile of ****, maybe with a bit of personality.

Some groups wont even bother to disguise the turd, they merely plop it down in front of you on a paper plate with a rusty knife and fork. In such cases, of course, run.

I could write essays on how to discern subtle signs but they are really gleamed from watching numerous residents/fellows take jobs and go down in flames. Thats what I would advise you do. Open your eyes and ears and spend the better part of your residency listening and asking lots of questions. Make many friends in different parts of the country.

IMO, Path has a far greater time than other specialities with this issue. You just dont see anywhere close to this level of game playing with surgical subs, rads or derm job markets. In fact I would even guess that across the entire medical spectrum pathologists have it the worst. That is a bad and a good thing though (realizing this may seem confusing..)

There are MANY simple and complex reasons for this but I will leave it to you to uncover. Do a search on such posts I have made in the past.
 
I hear a lot of path AND non-path people talking about not wanting the hassle of dealing with the 'business' side of things, which I find very hard to understand. If you are not involved in the day to day running of your practice, you essentially have no say about anything. If your immunos suck, if you need a new processor, or if your transcriptionist can't spell for squat, you can complain all you want, but it is the managing partners who will be making the decisions.

That, and the whole "part time" phenomenon that is growing in medicine, where a great many people want to only devote part of their life to their career (whether for family reasons, they don't need the money, or they have another career they really want to do but can't support themselves doing it).

I for one can see to some extent the desire for a simple, punch-in, punch-out career, but in truth, WTF? We go to college and work harder than most college students. We spend four years in med school where it completely consumes our lives and we pay enormous fees for the privilege. Then we spend multiple years in residency working for small amounts for long hours, again basically putting our lives on hold. And all the time we are uprooting every 3-4 years every time we have to move on. And people think there is going to be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, right there and easy to find without further work? Silliness.

I have heard people say they can't find a good job, but they want part time, total flexibility, autonomy, and high pay for those requests. 🙄
 
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