Is this topic appropriate here

[deleted682700]

Recently the Indian government banned all old currency of 500 rupee ( approx7.5 us$). And 1000 rupee (approx 15$ usd). Obviously it is a very good move to unearth all the black money that lubricates the parallel economy. The choice for the underground money is to declare their money, by dec 30 , pay fine and taxes or loose 50%. Old notes get exchanged for new notes and u loose 50% to keep it unaccounted.

This sudden move has devastated the real estate in several cities and has deflated realestate values by 50%. Any one with dollars can go to india and buy property. Name your price and you are most likely to get it, particularly high end luxury markets.

Will the 100$ bill be abolished and only smaller notes be valid in the US? Will such a move ever happen.
Kenneth Rogoff, has made the case to abolish cash. When the banks charge negative interest rates, the general public withdraw their savings and keep it at home. This causes bank runs and TPTB want to abolish all cash transaction.

May be next step is Gesselian economy to force people to spend money today to increase the velocity of money exchange. Something is not right, particularly the huge disconnect between wall street and main street. Why does the layoffs continue if everything is so good

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[dhb]

India is the number 1 country i wouldn't go to (number 2 being china).
But yeah governments are trying to slowly shift to a cashless economy: negative rates and no way to take money out of the bank
...

 

[ZzzPlz]

The amount of people on this forum that say "loose" instead of "lose" is beginning to startle me.

 

[urge]

Recently the Indian government banned all old currency of 500 rupee ( approx7.5 us$). And 1000 rupee (approx 15$ usd). Obviously it is a very good move to unearth all the black money that lubricates the parallel economy. The choice for the underground money is to declare their money, by dec 30 , pay fine and taxes or loose 50%. Old notes get exchanged for new notes and u loose 50% to keep it unaccounted.

This sudden move has devastated the real estate in several cities and has deflated realestate values by 50%. Any one with dollars can go to india and buy property. Name your price and you are most likely to get it, particularly high end luxury markets.

Will the 100$ bill be abolished and only smaller notes be valid in the US? Will such a move ever happen.
Kenneth Rogoff, has made the case to abolish cash. When the banks charge negative interest rates, the general public withdraw their savings and keep it at home. This causes bank runs and TPTB want to abolish all cash transaction.

May be next step is Gesselian economy to force people to spend money today to increase the velocity of money exchange. Something is not right, particularly the huge disconnect between wall street and main street. Why does the layoffs continue if everything is so good

They want to be able to tax everything. That is the driving force.

I have read in non mainstream news outlets that there is talk behind closed doors to eliminate cash in the US for the same reason.

It's a good argument in favor of gold. I don't understant why gold is lower when the price is skyrocketing in India which is a huge market.

 

[pgg]

I have read in non mainstream news outlets that there is talk behind closed doors to eliminate cash in the US for the same reason.

It's a good argument in favor of gold.

What, you think they are going to ban cash but let you keep your gold? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[pgg]

Will the 100$ bill be abolished and only smaller notes be valid in the US?

What does this question have to do with what's happening in India?

India isn't banning cash. Theyre not even banning large denomination cash. They're removing the current 500 and 1000 Rupee notes from circulation and replacing them with new-issue 500 and 2000 notes. (With typical government inefficiency and clumsiness, apparently.)

They're not trying to go cashless, as far as I can tell. They're (ostensibly) trying to clean up counterfeit bills and the black market. It seems India has large problems with tax evasion and unreported income, real estate held in false names or other persons names to launder money or avoid taxation.

India is a weird place, might as well be a totally different planet. I don't fully understand what they're doing, or why, or its consequences, or if I should even care.

 

[pgg]

I don't understant why gold is lower when the price is skyrocketing in India which is a huge market.

Supply and demand.

You can buy as much physical gold as you can afford for spot + a few percent and have it delivered to your door tomorrow. There's no gap between paper & physical gold. The price is what it is. No magic or conspiracy needed.

The price of gold is skyrocketing in India because their cash is worth less, not because gold is worth more.

 

[Wiscoblue]

There is a huge 'black' market and a second cash economy in India. It is not taxed. Most real estate transactions occur with 80% 'white' and 20% 'black' money. It's not so bad here in the US to justify demonetization of the $100 bill. The 'cash' transactions that don't get reported or taxed are usually in bars restaurants and payments for domestic workers and babysitting.

The 'black' economy in India was being used for drugs and, more importantly for supporting terrorists and separatists in Kashmir by neighboring Pakistan. Demonetization was the only way to kill two birds with one stone. Stop the terror cash pipeline and kill the illegal second economy.

The price of gold is high in India because there's not enough to go around. It's a sellers market. Importation of gold is regulated and heavily taxed. Some gold is smuggled in but its hard to then convert it into legal tender.

No fear of any of that happening here in the US. I wouldn't invest in anything in India. Or China.

 

[Pharmado]

Since the initial question "is this topic appropriate" has yet to be answered, I'll do it. It isn't inappropriate, but it isn't likely pertinent to the lives of the vast majority of people on this message board (say
>95%). Perhaps an international finance discussion board would be more appropriate, although I thought it was interesting in a 'hey what's going on in a part of the world I'll never visit' sort of way.

 

[deleted682700]

What, you think they are going to ban cash but let you keep your gold? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Correct, gold confiscation of 1933. All the gold was confiscated except for numismatic coins

 

[Planktonmd]

They want to be able to tax everything. That is the driving force.

I have read in non mainstream news outlets that there is talk behind closed doors to eliminate cash in the US for the same reason.

If it's on the internet then it must be true!

 

[epidural man]

Since the initial question "is this topic appropriate" has yet to be answered, I'll do it. It isn't inappropriate, but it isn't likely pertinent to the lives of the vast majority of people on this message board (say
>95%). Perhaps an international finance discussion board would be more appropriate, although I thought it was interesting in a 'hey what's going on in a part of the world I'll never visit' sort of way.

Every topic is appropriate on the SDN Anesthesia boards. Take a look at our history.

 

[deleted682700]

The main reason why the USD was delinked to gold was because, gold was acting as a constraint to the unlimited expansion of debt money.

80-90 years later, physical cash seems to limit the amount of digital electronic money expansion. Abolish physical cash and all your labor is rewarded with electronic fiat.

Banning cash, serfdom in our time, feb 9, 2016
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/02/09/banning-cash-serfdom-in-our-time/

 

[pgg]

80-90 years later, physical cash seems to limit the amount of digital electronic money expansion.

What kind of word salad nonsense is this?

 

[Mman]

Something is not right, particularly the huge disconnect between wall street and main street. Why does the layoffs continue if everything is so good

The last time initial jobless claims were this low was 1973. And the US population has grown 50% since then so the rate of people filing new claims is staggering low on a historic basis. So why do you claim the "layoffs continue"?

 

[epidural man]

The last time initial jobless claims were this low was 1973. And the US population has grown 50% since then so the rate of people filing new claims is staggering low on a historic basis. So why do you claim the "layoffs continue"?

This is a little deceiving, right.

A better measure is the Employment-Population Ratio
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000

We never have recovered really from the last dip.

 

[Mman]

This is a little deceiving, right.

No, not really. OP was talking about layoffs continuing to happen. They aren't. Those people are the ones that newly apply for benefits. That ratio is as low as anybody here can ever remember. You are referring to workforce participation ratio (or percentage) which is a different measure of employment and has to do more with people choosing not to look for a job. A problem with that measure now, though, is the rise of the part time independent contractor type stuff like driving for Uber and how you measure/define that sort of arrangement. It isn't as simple as it was 30 years ago when nearly everybody that had a job was getting a W2 from their employer. Now there are a lot more grey areas.

 

[Mad Jack]

Recently the Indian government banned all old currency of 500 rupee ( approx7.5 us$). And 1000 rupee (approx 15$ usd). Obviously it is a very good move to unearth all the black money that lubricates the parallel economy. The choice for the underground money is to declare their money, by dec 30 , pay fine and taxes or loose 50%. Old notes get exchanged for new notes and u loose 50% to keep it unaccounted.

This sudden move has devastated the real estate in several cities and has deflated realestate values by 50%. Any one with dollars can go to india and buy property. Name your price and you are most likely to get it, particularly high end luxury markets.

Will the 100$ bill be abolished and only smaller notes be valid in the US? Will such a move ever happen.
Kenneth Rogoff, has made the case to abolish cash. When the banks charge negative interest rates, the general public withdraw their savings and keep it at home. This causes bank runs and TPTB want to abolish all cash transaction.

May be next step is Gesselian economy to force people to spend money today to increase the velocity of money exchange. Something is not right, particularly the huge disconnect between wall street and main street. Why does the layoffs continue if everything is so good

America doesn't have the systemic cash-based corruption economy India has. Something like 80% of the Indian economy is dealt with via cash, so they were losing massive amounts of tax revenue. In the US, cash isn't that big of a problem, as even most cash transactions occur in legitimate environments.

 

[Mad Jack]

No, not really. OP was talking about layoffs continuing to happen. They aren't. Those people are the ones that newly apply for benefits. That ratio is as low as anybody here can ever remember. You are referring to workforce participation ratio (or percentage) which is a different measure of employment and has to do more with people choosing not to look for a job. A problem with that measure now, though, is the rise of the part time independent contractor type stuff like driving for Uber and how you measure/define that sort of arrangement. It isn't as simple as it was 30 years ago when nearly everybody that had a job was getting a W2 from their employer. Now there are a lot more grey areas.

Plus the aging of the population and increased educational participation- higher percentage of people over 65 and in school equates to lower 18+ population participating in the workforce.

 

[deleted682700]

America doesn't have the systemic cash-based corruption economy India has. Something like 80% of the Indian economy is dealt with via cash, so they were losing massive amounts of tax revenue. In the US, cash isn't that big of a problem, as even most cash transactions occur in legitimate environments.

Why does underground or parallel economy survive. Does government exist to serve the economy and its participants? Does government participation ensure winners and loosers and by its very nature facilitate graft?

Men resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work, frederic bastiat. Once upon a time, the empire would fight distant country and bring the loot and its citizens would have an immense prosperity and standard of living. Alas what can we get from invading Afghanistan, spending a trillion dollars. No resources. But the extraction continues from the tax payer.

The present day delusion is to enrich everyone at the expense of everyone else, to make plunder universal under the pretense of organizing it, frederic bastiat. Most on this board can understand the above, the insurance companies and its CEO elk enrich themselves.

 

[Mad Jack]

Why does underground or parallel economy survive. Does government exist to serve the economy and its participants? Does government participation ensure winners and loosers and by its very nature facilitate graft?

Men resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work, frederic bastiat. Once upon a time, the empire would fight distant country and bring the loot and its citizens would have an immense prosperity and standard of living. Alas what can we get from invading Afghanistan, spending a trillion dollars. No resources. But the extraction continues from the tax payer.

The present day delusion is to enrich everyone at the expense of everyone else, to make plunder universal under the pretense of organizing it, frederic bastiat. Most on this board can understand the above, the insurance companies and its CEO elk enrich themselves.

Everyone is trying to get ahead of everyone else all the time, that's kind of how life works. India, however, has a particular issue in regard to their cash and taxes, that being that taxes do little for them in comparison to here (they do not see infrastructure benefits, medical care, social security, or environmental/regulatory benefits that we see here) due to the inherent corruption and waste in their system, coupled with the facts that they have a culture that sees nothing wrong with dealing under the table and that bribes/corruption are viewed as a part of day-to-day life and you get a system in which cash-based cheating of the system is basically baked in.

 

[deleted682700]

They want to be able to tax everything. That is the driving force.

I have read in non mainstream news outlets that there is talk behind closed doors to eliminate cash in the US for the same reason.

It's a good argument in favor of gold. I don't understant why gold is lower when the price is skyrocketing in India which is a huge market.

Although all debts are finally settled in gold, and all the valuations of real estate, stocks, bonds are derived from gold, see inverted pyramid of exeter, who is going to have money to buy gold? Better to have small denomination silver coins as a store of value

 

[deleted126335]

They want to be able to tax everything. That is the driving force.

I have read in non mainstream news outlets that there is talk behind closed doors to eliminate cash in the US for the same reason.

It's a good argument in favor of gold. I don't understant why gold is lower when the price is skyrocketing in India which is a huge market.

Speculation that gold imports to India will be restricted. Possible limits on ownership in India who is a huge consumer of gold.
Thus price of gold in India goes up. It goes down for the rest of the world since India gold consumption would be expected to drop.

 

[deleted682700]

Speculation that gold imports to India will be restricted. Possible limits on ownership in India who is a huge consumer of gold.
Thus price of gold in India goes up. It goes down for the rest of the world since India gold consumption would be expected to drop.

The value of the fiat currency, rupee in this case is going down. The central bankers around the world dont like loosing control. There is a rumour that free money is going to be deposited in all the bank accounts that were opened by Jan Dhan Yojana.

The question is where does the government get all the free money that it promises to the have nots? By taxation and debauchery of the currency. Slogans and inciting class warfare may gain short term votes and power, however these are not pathways to long term success.

Although I am all for ending black money, there are tons of legitimate bussinesses that are affected, particularly small bussinesses and elderly. Black money unearthed from this accounts to 6-10%. Rest of the illegal gains have found safe havens in UAE? under benami names.

The very very rich and powerful are being given a free pass, such as Mr Nandan Nilekani / patels are given mega contracts at tax payers expense.

 

[Wiscoblue]

That happens everywhere. The rich get richer. Politicians get rich by helping the rich get richer. The average guy works his ass off and dies leaving maybe a little something for his wife and kids. My neighbor travels to India regularly on business. He is amazed at the amount of money and sheer wealth that many business contacts have. Cars, servants, fancy jewelry and trappings of successful life. And they don't pay taxes on any of that.

How do you think people like Koch brothers and Soros and Buffet got rich? They grease the politicians that then facilitate their business interests with legislation that is beneficial to them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[urge]

It's all about collecting taxes.

Greek banks propose “tax on cash withdrawals” to combat tax evasion.

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/20...ax-on-cash-withdrawals-to-combat-tax-evasion/

 

[Mman]

How do you think people like Koch brothers and Soros and Buffet got rich? They grease the politicians that then facilitate their business interests with legislation that is beneficial to them.

I don't think you can lump those vastly different individuals in the same light. How did they get rich? Very different methods. The Koch brothers got rich because their dad started a very profitable oil refining business that branched out into other industrial and manufacturing areas. Did that company spend money on political donations? Of course, but it made money because it created things that people were willing to spend money on. The Koch brothers lobbying today has relatively little to do with trying to make their business more profitable and has more to do with the personal political views.

Soros made his money with financial speculation and investment. He has greased plenty of wheels to help keep the taxes he pays on those earnings low.

How did Buffett get rich? By investing in individually profitable companies and letting them keep earning money. He certainly didn't get rich by greasing politicians. He's too thrifty (cheap) for that. Besides, do you really need to pay off legislators to have companies like See's Candy and Coca-Cola make money? Legislation has nothing to do with why most of Berkshire is very profitable and has been for decades.

 

[Wiscoblue]

It's hard to get super rich like that without some 'help'. Why is there so much protesting going on about a gas Pipeline being placed under a river in North Dakota? Does a Buffet company benefit from a delay or cancellation of that project? It would be safer to carry all that gas by railroad. If you think Buffet doesn't have a whole bunch of lobbyists working the politicians, you're being very naive.

 

[deleted171991]

It's hard to get super rich like that without some 'help'. Why is there so much protesting going on about a gas Pipeline being placed under a river in North Dakota? Does a Buffet company benefit from a delay or cancellation of that project? It would be safer to carry all that gas by railroad. If you think Buffet doesn't have a whole bunch of lobbyists working the politicians, you're being very naive.

BNSF.

Any company has to put the interests of its shareholders first, and that includes lobbying for them. Still, one cannot compare Buffett's ethics with most of his competitors'. That man has been in the limelight for decades, and still he has more admirers than detractors by orders of magnitude.

 

[Mman]

It's hard to get super rich like that without some 'help'. Why is there so much protesting going on about a gas Pipeline being placed under a river in North Dakota? Does a Buffet company benefit from a delay or cancellation of that project? It would be safer to carry all that gas by railroad. If you think Buffet doesn't have a whole bunch of lobbyists working the politicians, you're being very naive.

Buffett does lobby politicians, but that isn't how he got super rich. He got rich by wisely investing money and wisely purchasing profitable companies and letting them do their thing without his interference.

 

[deleted682700]

What kind of word salad nonsense is this?

The banks do fractional reserve lending. That means for every dollar that they have as credit, 9 dollars can be created out of thin air and given for lending. There is a minimum requirement by law for the banks to hold as cash and liquid assets.

When interest rates are driven below zero to artificially stimulate the economy, the retired and people on fixed income may not be able to afford to lose any of their savings, making them take the cash out of the banks. This will decrease the lending ability by 9 times. Recipe for a bank run or failure as a zombie japanese central bank for lost 2 decades.

How do banks make a profit? By lending money to productive industry. If the banks cannot lend or if there are no qualified borrowers, then the banks have to get government bailouts to survive. Too big to fail got postponed from 2008.
Abolish cash and that fractional lending survives a little while longer

 

[pgg]

When interest rates are driven below zero to artificially stimulate the economy, the retired and people on fixed income may not be able to afford to lose any of their savings, making them take the cash out of the banks.

Except retirees in this country don't have their money in cash accounts, they have it in stocks and bonds (for the most part ... with a tilt toward bonds). Unless they have no money to speak of, in which case their actions mean nothing.

This will decrease the lending ability by 9 times.

Unless the fed just uses more QE to keep he banks solvent, which they have before and we know they will again. Paper money has nothing to do with that.

Abolish cash and that fractional lending survives a little while longer

That doesn't make any sense at all.

We know the fed will create money to lend to banks. The presence or absence of paper money doesn't affect that.


If there's a shred of coherence to anything you're writing, it's that you have it totally backwards. Hyperinflation caused by unlimited digital money creation would make cash useless, unless higher denomination bills were printed and distributed. A physical cashless situation could result from digital money expansion if $100 bills became insufficient to buy a stick of gum, and $100,000 bills didn't exist.

80-90 years later, physical cash seems to limit the amount of digital electronic money expansion.

This is nonsense.

 

[deleted682700]

Pgg,
Just spewing out what is traditional voodoo economics is for losers. Fed creates money and distributes to banks!
Why doesnt the fed /banks give it to all the homeless people?

Did you read that article about kenneth Rogoff, the curse of cash. Please read before you talk about hyperinflation.

 

[pgg]

I guess I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume there's a language barrier here that prevents you from communicating what you actually mean, or comprehending what other people write. Because half of the things you post are non sequitors, and the other half are just goofy.

 

[deleted682700]

I guess I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume there's a language barrier here that prevents you from communicating what you actually mean, or comprehending what other people write. Because half of the things you post are non sequitors, and the other half are just goofy.

http://news.goldseek.com/CliveMaund/1482170400.php

We are in a goofy world where the producers and savers are being punished at the expense of debtors who cannot qualify for loans. There is an American saying dont shoot the messenger. Instead lets focus on the topic and the links that are provided. Saying that i dont understand English for the inability to understand the con of economics may not pay off well.

Yes, English is a second language and i speak three other languages.

What do I get out of educating other anesthesiologists on this board?

 

[pgg]

What do I get out of educating other anesthesiologists on this board?

God only knows what you're getting out of this ...

I took the time to write a specific response to you above (post 32) and your only response was "spewing out what is traditional voodoo economics is for losers."

Now, three weeks later, you get around to reviving this silly thread with a goldseek.com link and yet another silly shoot-the-messenger non sequitor complaint? I don't know if your problem is language, a short attention span, gullibility (goldseek? really?), or too many paint chips consumed as a child, but nothing you post is educational.