Is top third good enough for any residency?

[ElPedorro]

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There's an old adage at my school that you must be top 10, even top 5 to do OMFS and Ortho. I've been working my tail off and while I think I can maintain top 1/3, it's highly unlikely I'll ever crack into the top 10 (out of about 90). Is this good enough for residencies or should I really be setting my sites on general dentistry? Thanks for any insight, friends!

Sincerely,
ElPedorro

 

[CMistry]

It is definitely "good enough" to get into a residency spot somewhere, at some point. Don't be surprised if you don't match into a highly coveted residency spot your first year applying.

 

[ElPedorro]

bump

 

[gn4]

if you trying to match ortho, that might be a bit harder, but if you do well on your cbse, you should be able to match OMFS

 

[Newgoalsdentdoc]

There's an old adage at my school that you must be top 10, even top 5 to do OMFS and Ortho. I've been working my tail off and while I think I can maintain top 1/3, it's highly unlikely I'll ever crack into the top 10 (out of about 90). Is this good enough for residencies or should I really be setting my sites on general dentistry? Thanks for any insight, friends!

Sincerely,
ElPedorro

Good enough but keep striving for what you want. Also, keep in mind that it's not always grades. You may not get into a particular program that is competitive or one where many apply, but you will get in somewhere. I strongly suggest keeping an open mind about going to a program that will accept you, even if it's not a place on your list. Opportunities are EVERYWHERE! Best wishes.

 

[Golfguy]

There's always perio if you would like that, or pros.

A rank out of the top 30% and a very high CBSE, will likely take an internship and CBSE retake to match to OMFS.

For ortho there are "fellowships" to add to your competitiveness, but I don't know much about them.

 

[Silent Cool]

There's an old adage at my school that you must be top 10, even top 5 to do OMFS and Ortho. I've been working my tail off and while I think I can maintain top 1/3, it's highly unlikely I'll ever crack into the top 10 (out of about 90). Is this good enough for residencies or should I really be setting my sites on general dentistry? Thanks for any insight, friends!

Sincerely,
ElPedorro

Yes, as long as you are willing to go anywhere, you will match out of the top 1/3.

Good luck.

PS: see the story about the student from the UW a few years back who was #1 and didn't match Ortho. It is because that person applied to only a handful of places. Apply everywhere.

 

[knife]

There's always perio if you would like that, or pros.

A rank out of the top 30% and a very high CBSE, will likely take an internship and CBSE retake to match to OMFS.

For ortho there are "fellowships" to add to your competitiveness, but I don't know much about them.

smh to everything in this response.

 

[Golfguy]

smh to everything in this response.

Hey didn't mean to strike a nerve man, but Pros and Perio are not competitive, sorry.

And as someone who matched to OMFS I stand by my statement. If you aren't in the top of your class you need to have a big CBSE score. An internship will go along way if said person can't get a great CBSE score. There are exceptions, but this is the formula that works for most applicants.

For Ortho I think class rank is even more pivotal considering no standardized exam score (GRE is mostly a minimum for the grad school (MS)), until possibly the implementation of the ADAT, of course.

I'm sure Pros and Perios go on to have great careers, but that isn't the subject at hand.

 

[vellnueve]

Hey didn't mean to strike a nerve man, but Pros and Perio are not competitive, sorry.

And as someone who matched to OMFS I stand by my statement. If you aren't in the top of your class you need to have a big CBSE score. An internship will go along way if said person can't get a great CBSE score. There are exceptions, but this is the formula that works for most applicants.

For Ortho I think class rank is even more pivotal considering no standardized exam score (GRE is mostly a minimum for the grad school (MS)), until possibly the implementation of the ADAT, of course.

I'm sure Pros and Perios go on to have great careers, but that isn't the subject at hand.

Perio and Prosth may not be as competitive as Ortho/Endo/OMFS but they're still competitive.

 

[The OMFS]

Generally, any program that require tuition is much less competitive. Perio and Pros are not competitive at all because of this. Ortho programs that require tuition are less competitive (Roseman, Pacific, Jacksonville, etc) than those that provide stipend.

 

[Golfguy]

Perio and Prosth may not be as competitive as Ortho/Endo/OMFS but they're still competitive.

By class rank? Perio and Pros will take people in the bottom 50% of their classes. I don't think that's competitive, just means you passed dental school.

Endo is more about experience than the others too. A person with a poor rank can still match endo with good work experience, while a guy in the top 5 with no experience will have difficulty.

 

[ProstheticTooth]

I have heard prosth becoming more and more competitive. Of course the tuition free programs seem to be the most competitive. There are people in the top of their class who apply to prosth. Anyways, back to the OP's question. If you are deadest on specializing, let nothing stop you. If you aren't near the top of your class, do an internship, GPR, and prove yourself. The key is to not give up.

 

[vellnueve]

By class rank? Perio and Pros will take people in the bottom 50% of their classes. I don't think that's competitive, just means you passed dental school.

Endo is more about experience than the others too. A person with a poor rank can still match endo with good work experience, while a guy in the top 5 with no experience will have difficulty.

Experience is part of competitiveness. Part of the reason I got interviews at a majority of the programs I applied to despite being just outside of the top 30% and not having a particularly strong CBSE.

And while Perio and Prosth may take some people at the bottom of their classes, there are still a good number of people who want those programs who don't get them. To say they aren't competitive is misleading.

 

[Golfguy]

Experience is part of competitiveness. Part of the reason I got interviews at a majority of the programs I applied to despite being just outside of the top 30% and not having a particularly strong CBSE.

And while Perio and Prosth may take some people at the bottom of their classes, there are still a good number of people who want those programs who don't get them. To say they aren't competitive is misleading.

See that's the thing, I'm not talking about outliers.

I don't consider it competitive if the majority of people who match to a given specialty are not in the top of their class.

 

[vellnueve]

I guess we'll have to differ on this. I believe competitiveness should encompass the entire package that an applicant brings to the table.

Would you then say that all those experienced GPs that go into Endo are outliers? While you pay tuition for it and class rank isn't as important, it would be hard to argue that Endo is not a competitive specialty to enter.

 

[Golfguy]

I guess we'll have to differ on this. I believe competitiveness should encompass the entire package that an applicant brings to the table.

Would you then say that all those experienced GPs that go into Endo are outliers? While you pay tuition for it and class rank isn't as important, it would be hard to argue that Endo is not a competitive specialty to enter.

Yeah I agree, it all depends on what a particular specialty values. OMS doesn't favor PP generalists like endo does.

I would argue it's much more easier to graduate somewhere in the top 50% and get a few years of work experience and apply to endo. The 2nd year endos at my program were not great applicants in terms of OMS, Ortho, or Pedo. One was pass/fail and other is low rank. Little chance they match to the aforementioned (OMS etc.) directly out of school. It's harder to be top 10 and have a high CBSE score, IMO. I think just about anyone can graduate and work for a few years to pad their resume. One could argue that it helps them in endo practice, but does little for OMS and ortho.

I think endo is competitive in terms of numbers, but I don't think it's as hard to achieve what they value, IMO.

 

[Endo16]

It all depends on the program. Programs that pay stipend are competitive.

 

[RoseEndo]

Yeah I agree, it all depends on what a particular specialty values. OMS doesn't favor PP generalists like endo does.

I would argue it's much more easier to graduate somewhere in the top 50% and get a few years of work experience and apply to endo. The 2nd year endos at my program were not great applicants in terms of OMS, Ortho, or Pedo. One was pass/fail and other is low rank. Little chance they match into the aforementioned (OMS etc.) directly out of school. It's harder to be top 10 and have a high CBSE score, IMO. I think just about anyone can graduate and work for a few years to pad their resume. One could argue that it helps them in endo practice, but does little for OMS and ortho.

I think endo is competitive in terms of numbers, but I don't think it's as hard to achieve what they value, IMO.

My husband barely made into top 30%, but scored 90+% on his NBDE and still matched to OMFS. OMFS Admission Committee is made up of medical school and OMFS faulty and they value standardized exams highly. One of our classmates was also top 50% of our class with average NBDE, did two year internship, and matched to 4-year program. It is case by case and hard to generalize it for any specialty. But I agree with Endo16 that non of that matters when you enter real world.

 

[Golfguy]

My husband barely made into top 30%, but scored 90+% on his NBDE and still matched to OMFS. OMFS Admission Committee is made up of medical school and OMFS faulty and they value standardized exams highly. One of our classmates was also top 50% of our class with average NBDE, did two year internship, and matched to 4-year program. It is case by case and hard to generalize it for any specialty. But I agree with Endo16 that non of that matters when you enter real world. We had a classmate who graduated first in our class, entered specialty, did not succeed getting referrals for variety of different reasons, and ended-up becoming a full time faculty. Having a business plan earlier even during your residency is a key to succeed as a specialist.

Yes there are exceptions, as I've stated. Doing 2 years of non-categorical internships is a terribly difficult path to OMS. God bless those pour souls who had to do that, it's inhumane punishment, and shows dedication to the specialty.

Most OMS admission committees don't have a medical school faculty on them, especially 4-year programs. Many 6-year programs have a med school interview where the med school will offer their assessment, but the selection is usually up to OMS attendings.

Most applicants match with similar credentials; high class rank, and high CBSE score. There will always be outliers like those mentioned above. Not to mention they will have much less choice of programs when they apply.

I do agree that it doesn't matter as much when you're in, but that wasn't the question at hand.

 

[fit_doc]

My husband barely made into top 30%, but scored 90+% on his NBDE and still matched to OMFS. OMFS Admission Committee is made up of medical school and OMFS faulty and they value standardized exams highly. One of our classmates was also top 50% of our class with average NBDE, did two year internship, and matched to 4-year program. It is case by case and hard to generalize it for any specialty. But I agree with Endo16 that non of that matters when you enter real world. We had a classmate who graduated first in our class, entered specialty, did not succeed getting referrals for variety of different reasons, and ended-up becoming a full time faculty. Having a business plan earlier even during your residency is a key to succeed as a specialist.

Just goes to show if there's a will there's a way

 

[RoseEndo]

I have been asked by several members about Endo application process, and I prefer to answer it here so everyone can see my comments. As a chief resident, I was involved in selection process and our program director valued interview ratings, NBDE score, GPR or AEGD experience, and class rank as important factors when selecting candidates. Regarding letters of recommendation, endodontic faculty, especially pre- or post-doctoral program directors, are the most highly regarded sources.

 

[DoctaFauci]

A lot of residency applications come down to politics (e.g. which school you attended/geography) and who you know. Grades get you the interview, but other factors sometimes play a role in the final decision-making process. Long story short, there's no hard rule as to what will secure you admission to a program. Apply, interview, don't put all your eggs in one basket, be humble, and hope for the best.

 

[beanary23]

There's an old adage at my school that you must be top 10, even top 5 to do OMFS and Ortho. I've been working my tail off and while I think I can maintain top 1/3, it's highly unlikely I'll ever crack into the top 10 (out of about 90). Is this good enough for residencies or should I really be setting my sites on general dentistry? Thanks for any insight, friends!

Sincerely,
ElPedorro

Absolutely; Having great grades is good but most programs look for more, if you are well diversed in other areas of personal care, community or have participated in student counsel..all are very nice accomplishements and will enhance your application.