Is using Adderall without perscription cheating?

[TehDoc]

Is it really that big of a deal? Besides, i doubt it would help you that much more.

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[NickNaylor]

I've never taken Adderall, but my roommate is ADHD-diagnosed and as an Adderall perscription. He doesn't take is regularly, but if he's having trouble focusing he'll pop a pill. Whenever he takes it, he can't sleep that night, so the next day he's a complete zombie once the Adderall is no longer affecting him.

Doesn't sound like fun to me. I'd rather just go to sleep and not finish everything than feel like that.

 

[lol.psych]

Illegal means that which society has deemed "wrong". Ethics and morals and justice may be underpinnings of laws. If you focus solely on ethical or moral consequences you may have a clear conscience, but often can end up in jail for committing a wrong. You have to realize that ethics, morals and laws are three different and sometimes disconnected things. But the bold statement of the prior poster that "Taking a prescription med without a prescription is a crime, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong." is simply inaccurate. Crimes are wrong -- society through its legislature has spoken and deemed it so. That you have morals, ethics that differ isn't going to make this legislated wrong a right.

I think the disagreement is a fundamental one - you believe that it is always wrong to commit crimes, while others believe that criminal actions are not always wrong (which is not to say that they don't believe that if found out, legal action will follow). It is going to be near impossible for either side to convince the other, so I think we should just effing DROP IT.

 

[majahops]

If you have real ADD, it won't just help, it will provide a night and day difference.

Is it really that big of a deal? Besides, i doubt it would help you that much more.

 

[Law2Doc]

No one is arguing that being "wrong" in the judicial sense as you have deemed it won't land you in a jail cell. It's more like an argument about the definition of a word.

Sure, but I'm saying that statements like "committing a crime is not necessarily wrong" is problematic. Criminal laws govern those action which society has deemed "wrong". That you may have ethical or moral positions that deviate from this doesn't make committing a crime less wrong, until perhaps you get the law overturned through the appropriate channels.

 

[majahops]

I had a response to this but nevermind. I don't want to get into this philosophical sideshow.

Sure, but I'm saying that statements like "committing a crime is not necessarily wrong" is problematic. Criminal laws govern those action which society has deemed "wrong". That you may have ethical or moral positions that deviate from this doesn't make committing a crime less wrong, until perhaps you get the law overturned through the appropriate channels.

 

[Law2Doc]

you believe that it is always wrong to commit crimes,
...
It is going to be near impossible for either side to convince the other, so I think we should just effing DROP IT.

It's not about what I believe, it's about what society has decided. Crimes are on the books as a statement of what society (all of us) through our representatives have deemed wrong, and thus punishable.

I agree that this kind of semantic argument is probably fruitless and can end.
My suggestion -- don't commit crimes. Even if you don't think it wrong, your ethics/morals won't keep you out of jail or get an adcom to overlook a drug possession charge. And don't use prescription drugs that you have no medical need for. Good luck all.

 

[foster033]

Illegal means wrong. Look in any thesaurus and you will see "wrongful" is one of the first synonyms for illegal. .

Let's look in the dictionary instead of the thesaurus

definition of illegal:
1.forbidden by law or statute.
2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.

hmm, I don't see the word wrong mentioned there at all...

No, illegal means illegal.
Right and wrong are moral or ethical statements. In kindergarten, they teach you that sharing is the right thing to do, and that being nice to classmates is the right thing to do, and that it's wrong to lie or be mean to your friends. None of these things are illegal - they are moral or social guidelines.

To some, breaking laws is morally or ethically wrong. To others, breaking laws is simply illegal with no moral consequences.

Thanks...perfectly said.

Probably better to argue 'law' with someone who doesn't have 'JD' behind their name.

haha...just b/c he has a degree doesn't necessarily mean he knows what he's talking about. Anyway, this discussion is more philosophical than law based.

If something is illegal it means society has deemed it wrong. So yeah, committing a crime is wrong. Society has made it so. And so they will punish you when caught. I'm saying it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER IT IS MORALLY OR ETHICALLY BAD, which is why I don't fall into the "logical fallacy" you describe. Ethics and morals MAY be underpinnings of the law, but they needn't be. The law is your legislature saying "this is wrong, don't do it". So saying it is a crime but not wrong simply doesn't work unless you are saying you are answering only to a higher judge, who works on ethics, morals, etc. But in the US you have to answer to a human judge and he will go by the laws as to whether what you did was wrong.

If something is illegal that means society has forbidden it which doesn't necessarily mean they've said it's wrong.

I think the disagreement is a fundamental one - you believe that it is always wrong to commit crimes, while others believe that criminal actions are not always wrong (which is not to say that they don't believe that if found out, legal action will follow). It is going to be near impossible for either side to convince the other, so I think we should just effing DROP IT.

Lol...we probably should, but I'm not good at leaving things alone. Besides, I don't think it's that simply. Wrong has to do with ethics not the law. If you disobey a law that you believe to be morally unjust you can't be considered wrong because you are acting according to what you believe is morally right or good. You can however, be punished for it.

 

[bodonid]

Gee, you think?

...And the irony there... is that I didn't see the irony there.

I thought that maybe there was a 1% chance you were kidding, but looking back I don't see how I missed it.

The outrages I have suffered today will not be soon forgotten! I will not be forgetting the outrages! No, the outrages, etc.

 

[Myuu]

Let's look in the dictionary instead of the thesaurus
definition of illegal:
1.forbidden by law or statute.
2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.

Not that I have any interest in arguing either side, but if you're going to cite definitions on a legal or philosophical matter, please use a legal or philosophy dictionary.

 

[foster033]

lol wat
explain.

hmm....well when I think of people abusing adderall I think of the ones I know who snorted it on the weekend in large amounts in order to get high.
If you are taking it in a normal dosage just without a prescription I don't think it the same as abusing it....

 

[Myuu]

hmm....well when I think of people abusing adderall I think of the ones I know who snorted it on the weekend in large amounts in order to get high.
If you are taking it in a normal dosage just without a prescription I don't think it the same as abusing it....

Well, it's only really normal if you actually have ADHD...

 

[foster033]

Not that I have any interest in arguing either side, but if you're going to cite definitions on a legal or philosophical matter, please use a legal or philosophy dictionary.

hmmm, well at least I used a dictionary instead of a thesaurus

but here you go...
illegal
adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity.

from law.com dictionary

I still don't see the word wrong...

 

[foster033]

Well, it's only really normal if you actually have ADHD...

I guess...but there's a difference between using it to get high and using it to focus, the intended purpose of the drug...

I personally don't consider it abuse just because you don't have a prescription....
I'm sure other people do though so it's really up to your own personal interpretation

 

[Insulinshock]

I have used Adderall before, and I probably will again. I've used it twice thus far, both during exam times. I have never felt these "horrible side effects" or "strong urges of dependency," and while it has helped me stay awake and focus longer it's not like my test scores were out-of-the-ballpark better. If someone were to honestly try and accuse me of cheating because I did this I would laugh at them.

That being said, I do know some who use it religiously, and I would not advise that. But using it once in a while? Give me a break.

 

[JaggerPlate]

haha...just b/c he has a degree doesn't necessarily mean he knows what he's talking about. Anyway, this discussion is more philosophical than law based.

True ... but he seems to be well versed in both. Plus, you have to make the assumption that in obtaining a JD Law2Doc has argued about the literal and theoretical practice of law/right vs wrong again and again. However, let the discussion continue ...

 

[phillySASer08]

I think sometimes we forget that this ISN'T a competition amongst physicians or physicians-to-be (even if the AMA and medical schools want to try to foster the sense that it is about this)... It is a mission to equip ourselves with the best tools we can to provide optimal healthcare to other human beings.

This is one of the more naive comments I have read on this site in a while. While your rationale may apply to a medical school setting, the fact is that the overwhelming majority of material you learn prior to entering medical school is utterly irrelevant to your future plans to practice as a physician.

It merely serves as a method to cull the herd of applicants, and frankly, if you need to illegally take a drug to gain an edge over those around you, and that edge enables you to get into med school over someone else who would have beaten you out were it not for the drugs, then you are thinking only of yourself and not your future patients. If you believe that patients are entitled to the best care possible, then you should believe that they are entitled to be treated by physicians who had the chops to make it through the system without using an illegal crutch, rather than someone who needed additional support.

The fact is, the path to practice medicine is a competitive one, and deservedly so; not everyone can or should be allowed to practice medicine. I could ostensibly see the argument that taking something like adderall once a practicing physicians could improve the care provided (but then you would be in a socially unfavorable position where those who abuse drugs have the power to dispense them), but as far as medical and premedical education goes, it is a rat race designed to select the most competent future physicians possible, and illegally using a substance to gain an unfair advantage is, in short, cheating.

 

[TehDoc]

I know the difference it can make on a person with add/adhd, I have a friend on meds. For a person without ADD, i seriously doubt it will have any major effect. Can someone who has taken them chime in?

 

[majahops]

I was talking about taking it during medical school... But I can tell from your statement that you are (most likely) a person with the type of general mentality on issues of moral righteousness and on what the practice of medicine can and should be about that I absolutely do not share. I respect your opinions and comments though, because I know that, if nothing else, they look great on paper.

This is one of the more naive comments I have read on this site in a while. While your rationale may apply to a medical school setting, the fact is that the overwhelming majority of material you learn prior to entering medical school is utterly irrelevant to your future plans to practice as a physician.

It merely serves as a method to cull the herd of applicants, and frankly, if you need to illegally take a drug to gain an edge over those around you, and that edge enables you to get into med school over someone else who would have beaten you out were it not for the drugs, then you are thinking only of yourself and not your future patients. If you believe that patients are entitled to the best care possible, then you should believe that they are entitled to be treated by physicians who had the chops to make it through the system without using an illegal crutch, rather than someone who needed additional support.

The fact is, the path to practice medicine is a competitive one, and deservedly so; not everyone can or should be allowed to practice medicine. I could ostensibly see the argument that taking something like adderall once a practicing physicians could improve the care provided (but then you would be in a socially unfavorable position where those who abuse drugs have the power to dispense them), but as far as medical and premedical education goes, it is a rat race designed to select the most competent future physicians possible, and illegally using a substance to gain an unfair advantage is, in short, cheating.

 

[foster033]

This is one of the more naive comments I have read on this site in a while. While your rationale may apply to a medical school setting, the fact is that the overwhelming majority of material you learn prior to entering medical school is utterly irrelevant to your future plans to practice as a physician.

It merely serves as a method to cull the herd of applicants, and frankly, if you need to illegally take a drug to gain an edge over those around you, and that edge enables you to get into med school over someone else who would have beaten you out were it not for the drugs, then you are thinking only of yourself and not your future patients. If you believe that patients are entitled to the best care possible, then you should believe that they are entitled to be treated by physicians who had the chops to make it through the system without using an illegal crutch, rather than someone who needed additional support.

The fact is, the path to practice medicine is a competitive one, and deservedly so; not everyone can or should be allowed to practice medicine. I could ostensibly see the argument that taking something like adderall once a practicing physicians could improve the care provided (but then you would be in a socially unfavorable position where those who abuse drugs have the power to dispense them), but as far as medical and premedical education goes, it is a rat race designed to select the most competent future physicians possible, and illegally using a substance to gain an unfair advantage is, in short, cheating.

meh...getting great grades is just playing the game...doesn't necessarily mean you're smarter or going to be a better doctor. You're right, not everyone should be allowed to practice medicine, but do you really think the criteria of getting a 4.0 deems you worthy?

You say it's a rat race designed to select the most competent future physicians...but really it's just a race designed to weed people out (and not necessarily the ones who wouldn't be good doctors) so they have fewer applications to sort through.

 

[majahops]

Your second paragraph just about sums it up, in my opinion. Particularly the phrase in parentheses.

meh...getting great grades is just playing the game...doesn't necessarily mean you're smarter or going to be a better doctor. You're right, not everyone should be allowed to practice medicine, but do you really think the criteria of getting a 4.0 deems you worthy?

You say it's a rat race designed to select the most competent future physicians...but really it's just a race designed to weed people out (and not necessarily the ones who wouldn't be good doctors) so they have fewer applications to sort through.

 

[DollBabyKG]

While I'm not sure it falls under the realm of "academic dishonesty," it certainly falls under the realm of "prescription drug abuse," which would be a very LARGE black mark on your application to medical school, not to mention possibly land you in jail. If you need to abuse prescription drugs to survive your UNDERGRADUATE education, how will you handle medical school? I know that personally, I don't want to have a physician who was impaired through medical school.

 

[flaahless]

While I'm not sure it falls under the realm of "academic dishonesty," it certainly falls under the realm of "prescription drug abuse," which would be a very LARGE black mark on your application to medical school, not to mention possibly land you in jail. If you need to abuse prescription drugs to survive your UNDERGRADUATE education, how will you handle medical school? I know that personally, I don't want to have a physician who was impaired through medical school.

Hahaha you'd be surprised.

 

[Law2Doc]

meh...getting great grades is just playing the game...doesn't necessarily mean you're smarter or going to be a better doctor.

If you aren't able to get good grades without drug enhancement, maybe you aren't cut out for this. Because honestly it gets harder and harder the further down the road you go, and where you may have just needed something like Adderall every now and then in college, you may find you need it more frequently in med school. And so on.

 

[scarletgirl777]

lol wat
explain.

Yeah I know, taking a prescription drug without a prescription or with a prescription but in a way that disobeys doctor's orders or is not appropriate for your medical conditions is the DEFINITION of prescription drug abuse.

 

[scarletgirl777]

hmm....well when I think of people abusing adderall I think of the ones I know who snorted it on the weekend in large amounts in order to get high.
If you are taking it in a normal dosage just without a prescription I don't think it the same as abusing it....

Actually it is. By definition. Ask a doctor.

 

[bodonid]

well, are we sure that it actually helps? I would find it easy to believe that someone thinks it has a greater effect than it really does.

 

[foster033]

If you aren't able to get good grades without drug enhancement, maybe you aren't cut out for this. Because honestly it gets harder and harder the further down the road you go, and where you may have just needed something like Adderall every now and then in college, you may find you need it more frequently in med school. And so on.

If you meant me personally, like I said before, I've never touched the stuff...


In a way I agree with you, it does get harder and if you don't have the intelligence now, it would be unlikely you'd make it in med school...
but there is a difference in being an irresponsible student (taking adderall the day before the test to stay up all night and study b/c you were out partying all week) and not being a good enough student (being unable to get good grades w/o adderall even with good study habits).

As a reformed irresponsible student I realize grades don't always equate with intelligence or the ability to suceeded. Many people will probably say that if you can't prioritize school work in undergrad you won't be able to do it in med school either....but priorities change and people grow up so I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely for that to be the case.

 

[Insulinshock]

well, are we sure that it actually helps? I would find it easy to believe that someone thinks it has a greater effect than it really does.

Well, it DOES help. When reading text the words seem to jump out at you, but I can almost gurantee as well that there is a least a little bit of a placebo effect.

 

[Bacchus]

I don't know if my university would call this cheating. However, 50-60% of our graduates each year graduate with a professional degree: PharmD, MOT, DPT, etc. Therefore, any student that the school gets wind of using any drug without prescription basically gets the choice of counseling or leaving the school. Its a big deal, definitely. Remember, even if you don't get ramifications now, you always have to get licensed in the future.

 

[halekulani]

hmm....well when I think of people abusing adderall I think of the ones I know who snorted it on the weekend in large amounts in order to get high.
If you are taking it in a normal dosage just without a prescription I don't think it the same as abusing it....

so if i take valium, pain killers, or morphine at safe doses but don't have a prescription i'm not abusing drugs?

you have a very NARROW minded view of drug abuse

 

[Flaxmoore]

Um yeah it does. Committing crimes is wrong. Which is why we punish people for doing so. There is really not much ethical gray area here. That some things that were once a crime may no longer be isn't a strong argument for committing what is currently a crime.

*boggle*

Are you seriously claiming that driving on the left side of the street (assuming that there is no other traffic) is immoral because it is illegal? It's a coordination problem, not a law based in morality- not all laws have to have moral backgrounds. Something being illegal does not necessitate it being also immoral.

One cannot legislate morality. Is using Adderall cheating? Perhaps. You'd fail a random drug test easily enough, considering it's an amphetamine. Is it immoral? Again, perhaps. You're performing an illegal act (obtaining and consuming a prescription medication without a prescription) and using that illegal act to gain an undeserved advantage over your classmates. It could easily be argued that gaining an undeserved advantage is the very definition of cheating.

 

[foster033]

so if i take valium, pain killers, or morphine at safe doses but don't have a prescription i'm not abusing drugs?

you have a very NARROW minded view of drug abuse

I was specifically talking about adderall but...

I guess you're right, I don't think if you were taking pain killers, and you actually have physical pain, at a reasonable dose that it's abusing drugs just because you don't have a prescription.

Here's a question for you...say you're prescribed a pain killer for migraine headaches and you get into an accident where you break a bone or injure a ligament...you take your prescribed pain killers, but not for their intended purpose, is this abusing drugs? Technically it would be since your only supposed to take the medicine how it's prescribed but you'd be foolish not to take pain killers that you had in your possession if you were in pain. In fact, I think most people would take them even if they belonged to a friend or family member. Would this still be abusing drugs?

You might think my view is too narrow, but I think yours is too broad...we have better things to worry about than this...someone taking drugs in responsible doses for there intended purpose without a prescription doesn't fall too high on my priority list of things that are wrong with the world.

 

[flaahless]

so if i take valium, pain killers, or morphine at safe doses but don't have a prescription i'm not abusing drugs?

you have a very NARROW minded view of drug abuse

I'm with Foster here. People take drugs all the time without having a prescription. Families save and share antibiotics etc. without the threat or worry of being charged for criminal activity.

And it's adderall. Not crystal meth. No one is going to care, unless the usage become deleterious to the user and/or others, or some overly sheltered premed blows the situation way out of proportion.

 

[amph119]

While I don't particularly care one way or another on this thread, I think before using Adderall without a prescription or real need for it one should take a good long look at themselves and at the fact that they feel they need drugs in order to keep up.

 

[flaahless]

While I don't particularly care one way or another on this thread, I think before using Adderall without a prescription or real need for it one should take a good long look at themselves and at the fact that they feel they need drugs in order to keep up.

Co-sign.

 

[ballerstatus666]

If you are getting wasted on Adderall, you are taking way way too much.

adderall helps you get wasted on booze real quick

 

[ballerstatus666]

While I don't particularly care one way or another on this thread, I think before using Adderall without a prescription or real need for it one should take a good long look at themselves and at the fact that they feel they need drugs in order to keep up.

so? medicine was made for a reason, f ethics/morality

 

[amph119]

so? medicine was made for a reason, f ethics/morality

Oh please.

 

[kanoe]

i think everyone is over reacting. i take adderall here and there, and it does wonders when you are studying for things like biochem. but it is not without its side effects. it comes with bad insomnia, cotton mouth, you crash after the high wears off, and it is terrible for your heart. so is it bad for you, yes. will i still use it as a study aid, yes.

however i digress, read your school's policies on academic dishonesty
for example don't take credit for others' work is the jist of mine. therefore taking adderall without a prescription shouldn't be either. for example would an 18 year old going to his ochem exam drunk be considered cheating since he is not 21? no, he would be considered an idiot.

ps to those who think this is an undergrad issue only, go to medical school and see how many more people are using abusing adderall.

 

[calnation]

Having to take adderall without a prescription only suggests that you don't have a strong enough exigence to perform as well as you should in classes.

In other words, you're only getting your education for lame and shallow reasons. How pathetic.

 

[foster033]

Having to take adderall without a prescription only suggests that you don't have a strong enough exigence to perform as well as you should in classes.

In other words, you're only getting your education for lame and shallow reasons. How pathetic.

huh? I have no idea what you're trying to say....

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

huh? I have no idea what you're trying to say....

I think he's trying to say that a person taking Adderall w/o prescription doesn't have enough of a desire to put forth the effort to do well in classes and is using the drug as a quick way to getting a good grade. I guess that's kind of lame, but I'm not sure what he meant by it being shallow.

 

[calnation]

If you need to take adderall, it means you're not really studying out of interest.
If you're actually interested in a subject, or even educating yourself rather, you wouldn't need adderall (unless of course you had some psychological impairment)

And if you're not interested in a subject, then why take it? To be a tool?

Yeah I know we all have to take our general ed or whatever, but nevertheless, people who take adderall without a prescription in order to pass "hard science classes" are only setting themselves up for disappointment and regret.

 

[Law2Doc]

*boggle*

Are you seriously claiming that driving on the left side of the street (assuming that there is no other traffic) is immoral because it is illegal?

No. I'm saying morality and legality are two very different and often unrelated things. Legality is society's deeming of what is right and wrong, which may or may not have ethical or moral underpinnings. At any rate, I think we have exhausted this line of discussion.

 

[Law2Doc]

Families save and share antibiotics etc. without the threat or worry of being charged for criminal activity.

This is actually far worse, because it leads to resistant bacteria who someday may kill us all.

 

[Lacheln]

Personally I'm with the "just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's morally wrong" camp. This country is way screwed up in its attitude towards drugs (like, oh, alcohol isn't a risky drug, RIGHT?)

The problem with you taking adderall without a prescription is that it is addictive, and you could lose your source. Most people get caught buying drugs when they are looking around for a new supplier, and how incredibly dumb would it be to get a drug charge for adderall. I mean, seriously, if you're going to have that on your record might as well go for something less wussy like crack.

 

[lol.psych]

If you need to take adderall, it means you're not really studying out of interest.
If you're actually interested in a subject, or even educating yourself rather, you wouldn't need adderall (unless of course you had some psychological impairment)

And if you're not interested in a subject, then why take it? To be a tool?

Yeah I know we all have to take our general ed or whatever, but nevertheless, people who take adderall without a prescription in order to pass "hard science classes" are only setting themselves up for disappointment and regret.

That viewpoint has no basis in reality, fyi.

 

[Slack3r]

"...but violating the laws are not an acceptable route for change, and always wrong."

Tell Rosa Parks that.

 

[roseglass6370]

It's stupid. Don't do it.

If you can't play with the big dogs [without using unperscribed adderall] get out of the park.