Is using Adderall without perscription cheating?

[halekulani]

I'm with Foster here. People take drugs all the time without having a prescription. Families save and share antibiotics etc. without the threat or worry of being charged for criminal activity.

And it's adderall. Not crystal meth. No one is going to care, unless the usage become deleterious to the user and/or others, or some overly sheltered premed blows the situation way out of proportion.

there's a difference between denying something and admitting what you're doing.

if i download something, i know i'm stealing. i'm not going to try to argue that what i'm doing isn't stealing.

the use of adderall w/o a prescription is drug abuse. it's intended effect is to treat people with adhd, people who have study impairments, not someone who is fully capable of studying.

if you're going to use adderall w/o prescription at least man up to your own responsibilities and claim the tag of abuse.

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[foster033]

It's stupid. Don't do it.

If you can't play with the big dogs [without using unperscribed adderall] get out of the park.

Why does having a prescription really matter....do you know how easy it is to get a prescription? Testing methods are purely subjective so you will always be able to find a doctor that will prescribe it to you.

Anyway, it's been estimated that 20% of all people with a prescription abuse the drug, take it to get high, or sell it to others. Having a prescription doesn't mean you actually need the medicine or that you're using it correctly...it only means you've obtained it legally.

 

[NickNaylor]

Why does having a prescription really matter....do you know how easy it is to get a prescription?

If it's so easy, then people should at least be getting perscriptions.

 

[foster033]

If it's so easy, then people should at least be getting perscriptions.

But why, what difference does it make? It makes it legal...that's it. It doesn't make it right or even prove that they actually need it. Are you okay with people taking the drug no matter what just because they have a prescription? That automatically makes it right?

There's a variety of reasons people don't go to the dr. and get a prescription...no health insurance, can't afford a regular prescription, don't actually take the pills that often.

 

[roseglass6370]

Why does having a prescription really matter....do you know how easy it is to get a prescription? Testing methods are purely subjective so you will always be able to find a doctor that will prescribe it to you.

Anyway, it's been estimated that 20% of all people with a prescription abuse the drug, take it to get high, or sell it to others. Having a prescription doesn't mean you actually need the medicine or that you're using it correctly...it only means you've obtained it legally.

if this is the case then we should probably go out there and revoke all adderall perscriptions ever perscribed that way it can never be abused! let's screw over all the poor little ADHD kids out there who struggle in school and have rough home lives due to some chemical inbalance beyond their control.

heck, why not take away all pain medication perscriptions too since people abuse those as well. there's no way to prove that that guy out there really has intense lower back pain...or that that woman's migranes are really as bad as she says...

many perscriptions are subject to tests that are imperfect and fallible. we're only human. but that doesn't mean that some people don't genuinely need the meds perscribed.

so let me rephrase myself:

"if you can't play with the big dogs [without using adderall that you don't medically require] get out of the park."

alls im saying.

 

[foster033]

if this is the case then we should probably go out there and revoke all adderall perscriptions ever perscribed that way it can never be abused!!!!let's screw over all the poor little ADHD kids out there who struggle in school and have rough home lives due to some chemical inbalance beyond their control.

heck, why not take away all pain medication perscriptions too since people abuse those as well. there's no way to prove that that guy out there really has intense lower back pain...or that that woman's migranes are really as bad as she says...

many perscriptions are subject to tests that are imperfect and fallible. we're only human. but that doesn't mean that some people don't genuinely need the meds perscribed.

so let me rephrase myself:

"if you can't play with the big dogs [without using adderall that you don't medically require] get out of the park."

alls im saying.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think anything remotely close to what you've said..never ever have I advocated taking away the medication.

I'm just saying having or not having a prescription doesn't tell you anything about using the medication correctly or actually needing it. It only shows that you obtained the prescription legally, which isnt' the same thing.

I actually really don't care how people obtain the prescription or the pills, like I said before I really have more important things to worry about than people illegally or improperly taking adderall...if they want to do it, and it works for them...great, have at it.

Personally, I think the drug laws in this country are sort of ridiculous and many of them are unnecessary, but that's a topic for another thread...

 

[roseglass6370]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think anything remotely close to what you've said..never ever have I advocated taking away the medication.

I'm just saying having or not having a prescription doesn't tell you anything about using the medication correctly or actually needing it. It only shows that you obtained the prescription legally, which isnt' the same thing.

I actually really don't care how people obtain the prescription or the pills, like I said before I really have more important things to worry about than people illegally or improperly taking adderall...if they want to do it, and it works for them...great, have at it.

Personally, I think the drug laws in this country are sort of ridiculous and many of them are unnecessary, but that's a topic for another thread...

sorry, i guess i misunderstood what you were saying and overreacted.

but yeah, i get what your saying but stick by my guns that it's totally not fair for people to take adderall that don't need it. illegal and yes, cheating.

im just totally against people abusing adderall.

 

[edmadison]

"...but violating the laws are not an acceptable route for change, and always wrong."

Tell Rosa Parks that.

Ah and here in lies the critical distinction.

"wrong" is a difficult word. It's like "sick" or "fat". Context is everything. I would suggest that we need to be careful not to mix the concepts of legality, morality and ethicality. Whether something is illegal is usually clear. Does is violate the laws of the state? Whether something is moral, is often much less clear. Morals are societal norms which are generally agreed upon. The are not codified, however. Ethics would be professional norms. One could even come up with eight different scenarios which cover each possibility. I will spare you that, however.

In my personal opinion, breaking the law in a democratic/republican form of government is an immoral act. However, sometimes not breaking the law is even more immoral. Of course, this is the foundation of civil disobedience. I do not believe, however, that Dr. King or Ghandi would have gone to jail over taking adderall to study for an exam, or my personal favorite illegality for philosophical discussion: music "sharing". There are some pot-heads who might argue that what they are doing is in fact civil disobedience, however.

Ed

 

[lol.psych]

Personally, I think "wrong" or "right" is extremely personal - I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do, I can only tell you what I think, and what the costs and benefits, as I know them, are.

Whether it is considered cheating or not depends upon your school - check out their code of academic conduct, or whatever similar document they may have.

Abuse, also, is relative. I think that abuse can be determined based on the relationship that you have with your drug of choice - take alcohol, for example. You can have three drinks in a night, in a positive atmosphere, with friends, while dancing and being happy, and have a good time. Similarly, you can not drink any alcohol and have a good time. You can also be extremely depressed, angry, and enraged, and have three drinks to deal with it. I think only the third scenario involves abuse, personally, even though the first scenario involved the same number of alcoholic beverages.

Relating this to adderall - it's hard to say what is abuse and what isn't. Did you convince your doctor to prescribe it to you by saying "key phrases" that you knew would get you the drug? What is your physician's relationship with prescribing adderall - is ze conservative and does ze prefer alternative routes before deciding on amphetamines, or does ze hand out prescriptions like candy? Are you buying the drugs illegally because you think you benefit from it, legitimately? Are you just scared of having the stigma of having the label "ADHD" stuck on you? Or are you taking them because you need to stay up for three days to study for your finals? Are you snorting them, or taking them in a physically repsonsible manner? The final decision, I think, comes from within - are you using this medication in a self-destructive manner, or in a constructive manner? Only you can answer that for yourself.

(Of course, if you do illegal things, you can get punished. That's just straight-up simple. To me, it has no place in this kind of discussion because there's really nothing about it to discuss)

 

[bozz]

Forget about getting caught or being labeled as a cheater by others. Forget about the quality of care I will deliver to my future patients. Forget about the drug's health effects. These are all just useless details to me, diverting my attention away from the real issue at hand.

Am I the only one in here who wouldn't do it b/c I'd feel like I were cheating myself? To me, This issue is about ME and noone else. I don't care if anyone else takes it.

I am where I am now due to my hard work. And I'd like to continue to keep it that way. Using a crutch for a couple of medical school tests. Nah, I just can't do it. Self-confidence and will power = the best drug I have.

 

[foster033]

Forget about getting caught or being labeled as a cheater by others. Forget about the quality of care I will deliver to my future patients. Forget about the drug's health effects. These are all just useless details to me, diverting my attention away from the real issue at hand.

Am I the only one in here who wouldn't do it b/c I'd feel like I were cheating myself? To me, This issue is about ME and noone else. I don't care if anyone else takes it.

I am where I am now due to my hard work. And I'd like to continue to keep it that way. Using a crutch for a couple of medical school tests. Nah, I just can't do it. Self-confidence and will power = the best drug I have.

I don't know...I think it's a little extreme to say you are cheating, or even cheating yourself...it's not a magic pill that makes you learn everything you need to know the second you take it. You still have to put in the work and learn the material, it just helps you to focus better...the same could be said for coffee, energy drinks/pills, maybe they're not as extreme, but it's the same basic principle.

 

[SarsMO]

I am where I am now due to my hard work. And I'd like to continue to keep it that way. Using a crutch for a couple of medical school tests. Nah, I just can't do it. Self-confidence and will power = the best drug I have.

Yay!!! QFT.

 

[JeanLuc]

Most people I know in undergrad, at least at one time, will find themselves in a position where they are overwhelmed. I would say that it is okay to use amphetamines just that one time to get out of a terrible situation provided that you learn from the error. The next time a similar situation arises, I'd say that you cannot use it since you should have learned from the mistake the first time. So... everyone gets to pull the "get out of jail free card" but only once.

Thats what I deem to be fair and not cheating. Using it after that one time is cheating and wrong.

 

[Dirt]

To the OP.

Is this the thirtieth thread re: this topic?


Search is your friend.

 

[brianmartin]

Is it considered "cheating" to use prescription drugs without a prescription?

I say no, as long as the other person has equal access to them.

BTW, a lot of people in this thread need to RELAX.

 

[flaahless]

there's a difference between denying something and admitting what you're doing.

if i download something, i know i'm stealing. i'm not going to try to argue that what i'm doing isn't stealing.

the use of adderall w/o a prescription is drug abuse. it's intended effect is to treat people with adhd, people who have study impairments, not someone who is fully capable of studying.

if you're going to use adderall w/o prescription at least man up to your own responsibilities and claim the tag of abuse.

You're absolutely right. But it's the kind of drug abuse that no one really cares about. The DEA, FBI, local PD, ATF or whoever checks in on drug abuse is not going to care if a premed is taking it without a prescription so they can study.

Now IF the OP was moving weight, I'm talking about shipping black market adderall pills domestically and internationally and making major cake while doing so, then maybe the SDN overreaction would be warranted. But that's not the case, at least I don't think so.

 

[flaahless]

This is actually far worse, because it leads to resistant bacteria who someday may kill us all.

Word. But there's no way to stop it. There are 6 billion people on Earth, can't control all of them. Also, antibiotics are everywhere, pills, soap, food... microbial resistance is inevitable.

Nonetheless, I doubt any of the people that do share prescription drugs will receive attention from the "authorities."

Hahaha, it's adderall man. ADDERALL. Not coke. Not even weed. And even if it were, I still don't think many people would care.

 

[PainKiller69]

adderol is similar to coke. its a dopamine agonist. like coke, it blocks reuptake of dopamine.

it certainly is performance enhancing. i once new a kid who tried this last week for the first time. he got a 97% on his first summer o-chem exam. if one student can take it, then every other student is equally justified.

just because i get a 97 and it merely rids tommy of his habit of dazing off during lecture doesnt make it okay for him and not okay for me. this drug doesnt make a kid with ADHD functional in society. they already function to begin with. so, idk what makes the distracted kid special.

why despise excellence derived from use of Rx while endorsing mediocrity derived from the use of Rx.

 

[dienekes88]

Personally I'm with the "just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's morally wrong" camp. This country is way screwed up in its attitude towards drugs (like, oh, alcohol isn't a risky drug, RIGHT?)

The problem with you taking adderall without a prescription is that it is addictive, and you could lose your source. Most people get caught buying drugs when they are looking around for a new supplier, and how incredibly dumb would it be to get a drug charge for adderall. I mean, seriously, if you're going to have that on your record might as well go for something less wussy like crack.

I agree that the country is screwed up in its attitude towards drugs, but the biggest thing is the American public's complicity in the abuse of performance enhancing drugs by its mainstream sports figures while they demonize the olympic sports figures who are caught doping. I think that the idea behind banning performance enhancing drugs is that you don't want a kid to think, "I have to risk my health and perform illegal activities in order to achieve my dream." If you're born without the ability (be it mental or physical), maybe you should consider another way to make a living.

Back on topic, if taking adderall becomes the norm, do you want to be the person who tells a kid, "to become a doctor, you're going to have to take the pills." That's not a way to live.

Taking adderall is cheating as much as taking steroids or EPO is cheating.

 

[SarsMO]

I agree that the country is screwed up in its attitude towards drugs, but the biggest thing is the American public's complicity in the abuse of performance enhancing drugs by its mainstream sports figures while they demonize the olympic sports figures who are caught doping. I think that the idea behind banning performance enhancing drugs is that you don't want a kid to think, "I have to risk my health and perform illegal activities in order to achieve my dream." If you're born without the ability (be it mental or physical), maybe you should consider another way to make a living.

Back on topic, if taking adderall becomes the norm, do you want to be the person who tells a kid, "to become a doctor, you're going to have to take the pills." That's not a way to live.

Taking adderall is cheating as much as taking steroids or EPO is cheating.

That's a really interesting way of putting it...I like it! Go you.

 

[bozz]

I don't know...I think it's a little extreme to say you are cheating, or even cheating yourself...it's not a magic pill that makes you learn everything you need to know the second you take it. You still have to put in the work and learn the material, it just helps you to focus better...the same could be said for coffee, energy drinks/pills, maybe they're not as extreme, but it's the same basic principle.

Depends on the individual and where they draw the line. To me, it's cheating myself and all the work I've done so far. I couldn't care less about whether I'm cheating the system or getting an unfair advantage. It's not a magic pill, but the results and the concentration boost you get are pretty dramatic.

 

[foster033]

Depends on the individual and where they draw the line. To me, it's cheating myself and all the work I've done so far. I couldn't care less about whether I'm cheating the system or getting an unfair advantage. It's not a magic pill, but the results and the concentration boost you get are pretty dramatic.

I respect that...it's your own personal choice, you have to do what's right for you, as does everyone...

but the reason so many people take adderall is to keep up with all the ridiculousness you have to go through today to get into med school/law school/enter your choice of school here. Everyone is trying to be better than the last person and look where it's gotten us. Competition is good but it seems it's gotten to the point where you almost have to do something that comprises you is some way along the journey...whether that's adderall, taking easy classes instead of the ones you're actually interested in, taking an easier major, withdrawing from classes you think you might get a B in, doing research you hate, etc.

I'm sure I'm going to get slaughtered with people telling me how the did everything by the book and they've succeeded, and I bet there are lots of people who have but I think more and more doing your best just isn't good enough, you need to do more.

 

[flaahless]

I respect that...it's your own personal choice, you have to do what's right for you, as does everyone...

but the reason so many people take adderall is to keep up with all the ridiculousness you have to go through today to get into med school/law school/enter your choice of school here. Everyone is trying to be better than the last person and look where it's gotten us. Competition is good but it seems it's gotten to the point where you almost have to do something that comprises you is some way along the journey...whether that's adderall, taking easy classes instead of the ones you're actually interested in, taking an easier major, withdrawing from classes you think you might get a B in, doing research you hate, etc.

I'm sure I'm going to get slaughtered with people telling me how the did everything by the book and they've succeeded, and I bet there are lots of people who have but I think more and more doing your best just isn't good enough, you need to do more.

Naah I'm with you G. What you just posted is reality.

People use whatever vices they can to get a leg up. Adderall is no different. And it definitely isn't criminalized to the point where people would truly worry for your safety and/or the safety of others. I think sdners need to get out of the premed bubble and see what goes on in the real world.

 

[calnation]

That viewpoint has no basis in reality, fyi.

Thanks for the counter-argument. Really opened my eyes O_O .

Hell, I'm for legalizing drugs and everything (sure would kill some gang business). It's anyones right to do what they want with their body.

I just think having to take uppers is a lame and pathetic way to do well in classes. I've been the laziest mofo around for all my life but I've still held my dignity and it's helped change my habits. Sure I'll still procrastinate sometimes, but I'm definitely much more on my game than I ever used to be. If I had used amphetamines what would I have stood to gain. A different letter grade on my report card?

When you're taking adderall without a prescription I wouldn't say you're cheating academically. Hell, you still learned the material. Coffee is the same way. But if you're taking adderall to do well in a class you're definitely cheating yourself.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I'm with Foster here. People take drugs all the time without having a prescription. Families save and share antibiotics etc. without the threat or worry of being charged for criminal activity.

And it's adderall. Not crystal meth. No one is going to care, unless the usage become deleterious to the user and/or others, or some overly sheltered premed blows the situation way out of proportion.

This is terrible. Also, I don't know if families really do this "all the time," at least I don't know if the practice is widespread. I would certainly hope not because that is how we make fun diseases like multi drug resistant tuberculosis.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Why does having a prescription really matter....do you know how easy it is to get a prescription? Testing methods are purely subjective so you will always be able to find a doctor that will prescribe it to you.

Anyway, it's been estimated that 20% of all people with a prescription abuse the drug, take it to get high, or sell it to others. Having a prescription doesn't mean you actually need the medicine or that you're using it correctly...it only means you've obtained it legally.

Completely irrelevant. The argument that since others are doing it, it's ok, is without logical basis. The reason drugs are prescription and not over-the-counter is because the powers that be believe that a patient taking it needs to be monitored, and doctors have defined abuse to be taking a drug in such a way that this monitoring process is interfered with.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Forget about getting caught or being labeled as a cheater by others. Forget about the quality of care I will deliver to my future patients. Forget about the drug's health effects. These are all just useless details to me, diverting my attention away from the real issue at hand.

Am I the only one in here who wouldn't do it b/c I'd feel like I were cheating myself? To me, This issue is about ME and noone else. I don't care if anyone else takes it.

I am where I am now due to my hard work. And I'd like to continue to keep it that way. Using a crutch for a couple of medical school tests. Nah, I just can't do it. Self-confidence and will power = the best drug I have.

I feel that. But if everyone felt that way, then there would be no cheating This is also easier to say when you have confidence that you can do well without the help.

 

[flaahless]

This is terrible. Also, I don't know if families really do this "all the time," at least I don't know if the practice is widespread. I would certainly hope not because that is how we make fun diseases like multi drug resistant tuberculosis.

Word. But a struggling family with multiple kids and no health insurance has more pressing issues than preventing the development drug-resistant bacteria. They gotta live first.

 

[lol.psych]

Thanks for the counter-argument. Really opened my eyes O_O .

Hell, I'm for legalizing drugs and everything (sure would kill some gang business). It's anyones right to do what they want with their body.

I just think having to take uppers is a lame and pathetic way to do well in classes. I've been the laziest mofo around for all my life but I've still held my dignity and it's helped change my habits. Sure I'll still procrastinate sometimes, but I'm definitely much more on my game than I ever used to be. If I had used amphetamines what would I have stood to gain. A different letter grade on my report card?

When you're taking adderall without a prescription I wouldn't say you're cheating academically. Hell, you still learned the material. Coffee is the same way. But if you're taking adderall to do well in a class you're definitely cheating yourself.

Just sayin, there's no relationship between interest in a subject and use of study drugs (as you claimed in the post I responded to)

 

[HiFi09]

I respect that...it's your own personal choice, you have to do what's right for you, as does everyone...

but the reason so many people take adderall is to keep up with all the ridiculousness you have to go through today to get into med school/law school/enter your choice of school here. Everyone is trying to be better than the last person and look where it's gotten us. Competition is good but it seems it's gotten to the point where you almost have to do something that comprises you is some way along the journey...whether that's adderall, taking easy classes instead of the ones you're actually interested in, taking an easier major, withdrawing from classes you think you might get a B in, doing research you hate, etc.

I'm sure I'm going to get slaughtered with people telling me how the did everything by the book and they've succeeded, and I bet there are lots of people who have but I think more and more doing your best just isn't good enough, you need to do more.

I pretty much agree with everything here. It seems to me that as a society we are simply moving too fast without any idea of the destination. Its the same game we have always played- survival of the fittest...but on speed. There might be a few people who take themselves too seriously who wont agree with this post, but on the whole, I think this is pretty much the reality the average pre-med student finds themselves faced with.

In regards to the question on adderrall, my opinion is this: If it does not hurt other people and you have weighed it out for yourself then go for it (this obviously takes some consideration). However, I dont believe in "right and wrong" in the traditional sense. Whether or not I chose to put something into my body will always be a cost benefit analysis for me, so I could care less what someone else decides to do with theirs.

 

[foster033]

Completely irrelevant. The argument that since others are doing it, it's ok, is without logical basis. The reason drugs are prescription and not over-the-counter is because the powers that be believe that a patient taking it needs to be monitored, and doctors have defined abuse to be taking a drug in such a way that this monitoring process is interfered with.

That wasn't the argument I was making at all...the point is, having a prescription doesn't mean you actually need the medicine or that you're taking it correctly as many people here are assuming.

The real argument I was getting at is that just b/c the medicine is obtained legal doesn't automatically make it right (correct usage), just the same as obtaining the medicine illegally doesn't automatically make it wrong (incorrect usage).
If you really want to get into the definition of drug abuse...well there is no one definition for drug abuse. Most definitions say something about taking too much of the drug or having a dependency on the drug but not that it's automatically abuse just because you don't have a prescription.

 

[phillySASer08]

...not that it's automatically abuse just because you don't have a prescription.

But it IS automatically abuse when you are using a drug without a medical need, i.e. the people who abuse adderall as a 'study aid' but do not have ADD.

 

[foster033]

But it IS automatically abuse when you are using a drug without a medical need, i.e. the people who abuse adderall as a 'study aid' but do not have ADD.

but it is being used for a medical need...it's helping you to focus better, which is what it's intended for... everyone's mind wonders off from time to time, it may not be as severe in some people, but it's still there, and adderall helps keep that in check.

although to you it might be abuse, I don't think it is at all...to me it's only abuse if you're taking it in crazy high doses, snorting it, or taking it to get high.

 

[phillySASer08]

but it is being used for a medical need...it's helping you to focus better, which is what it's intended for...

No, it's intended to treat people with ADD or ADHD and allow them to function normally in school/work/etc., not to help normal individuals focus better.

This situation is one I find perfectly analogous to steroids in sports. HGH is intended to treat people with pituitary deficiencies, not to help athletes exceed the bounds of what their bodies are normally capable. Under your definition, since they're not using HGH or anabolic steroids to get high, they are not abusing the drugs, even though they have no medical need. The use of these drugs allows them to gain an unfair competitive advantage against other players, and their actions are categorically labeled as cheating, despite the fact that HGH in particular was not specifically banned in baseball during much of its use. The fact that using it without a prescription was illegal however, still led its use being viewed as cheating, and for fans to question the validity of the product they were viewing.

In short, if you want to think that drug abuse is limited to getting high, go ahead, but be aware that congress, the DEA, FDA, the medical community, and judging from the example above the population at large, strongly disagree with you.

 

[Lacheln]

One thing you guys are overlooking is that for people who actually have ADD/ADHD (and are taking it as prescribed, same dose every day), the effect isn't due to the stimulant action, because that wears off in the first few weeks. After the stimulant action wears off the ADD/ADHD patient sees the most benefit - it feels like you are calmed down, not more hyper. In people without ADD/ADHD, once the stimulant effect wears off they don't get any benefit. So, if you are using it as a stimulant then you aren't using it as an ADD/ADHD drug, you are using it like speed.

 

[foster033]

No, it's intended to treat people with ADD or ADHD and allow them to function normally in school/work/etc., not to help normal individuals focus better.

This situation is one I find perfectly analogous to steroids in sports. HGH is intended to treat people with pituitary deficiencies, not to help athletes exceed the bounds of what their bodies are normally capable. Under your definition, since they're not using HGH or anabolic steroids to get high, they are not abusing the drugs, even though they have no medical need. The use of these drugs allows them to gain an unfair competitive advantage against other players, and their actions are categorically labeled as cheating, despite the fact that HGH in particular was not specifically banned in baseball during much of its use. The fact that using it without a prescription was illegal however, still led its use being viewed as cheating, and for fans to question the validity of the product they were viewing.

In short, if you want to think that drug abuse is limited to getting high, go ahead, but be aware that congress, the DEA, FDA, the medical community, and judging from the example above the population at large, strongly disagree with you.

I don't really care who disagrees with me, but there has actually been a lot of support on both sides.

I never said it wasn't illegal...but people don't get arrested for abusing drugs, they get arrested for obtaining them illegally, they're two separate things. It's not taking the drugs you get in trouble for, it's having them. You'd get in trouble if you were caught with them even if you'd never taken one, so your examples above about the DEA, FDA, etc. don't really apply to abuse so much as just having the substance.

As for your sports analogy...well, again..steroids aren't going to take a person and turn them into a professional athlete if they have no talent to begin with. They've still worked very hard to get to where they're at and if taking steroids is something they really want to do with their body, well then it really isn't my place to tell them not to. I think people who take steroids are stupid (I've had to take them before for medical reasons and I have no idea why someone would intentionally do that to themselves), but I don't think they're abusing drugs. As for the HGH, I think that's probably unnecessary...I understand why athletes think they have to do this, but having a pituitary deficiency is something that can be medically proven so I think it should only be given to people who have a proven medical need for it.
ADD or ADHD cannot be medically proven which is why there is such a gray area in it's usage. All the tests for it are subjective so there really is no way to accurately tell who needs the drug and who doesn't. Should the people who go to their dr. and get a prescription b/c they say they can't concentrate or are getting bad grades in school, but don't really have ADD be at an advantage just b/c they got a prescription? I don't think so. And like I said before, I'm pretty convinced that everyone has some form of ADD and can benefit from taking adderall so if that's what you want to do, it's not my place to tell you no. Obviously the students who take it feel like they need it and they know themselves better than I do so who am I to judge. I think people generally care about what other people are doing a little too much. Worry about yourself and that should usually be enough to handle.

Society has brought this problem on itself...we're not impressed with anyone, athletes, doctors, lawyers...unless they're better than the ones who came before them. People are only capable of so much, no matter how hard they work. We've been forced to go to pills to increase our natural aptitude to fulfill the demands of society.

 

[halekulani]

You're absolutely right. But it's the kind of drug abuse that no one really cares about. The DEA, FBI, local PD, ATF or whoever checks in on drug abuse is not going to care if a premed is taking it without a prescription so they can study.

Now IF the OP was moving weight, I'm talking about shipping black market adderall pills domestically and internationally and making major cake while doing so, then maybe the SDN overreaction would be warranted. But that's not the case, at least I don't think so.

i never mentioned anything about pushing weight or being a major distributor.

i just had a problem with foster who won't recognize non-prescription adderall use as drug abuse.

i dont think i could classifying adderall use as cheating to address the OP. however, i think it's a bit of an understatement to say it's abuse that nobody really cares about. i'm sure school administrations WILL have something to say about it if a case about a student is brought up. it's one of those, i know you do it, but don't talk about it things (eg. underage drinking - most people in college do it, most get away with it, but if you're caught, you might be in minor or even serious trouble depending on the situation)

 

[foster033]

i just had a problem with foster who won't recognize non-prescription adderall use as drug abuse.

and I never will....

under your argument a prescription equates to non-abuse and someone using it without a prescription equates to abuse...
you're confusing abuse with something being legal and illegal, but they're not the same thing.

you need to look at the individual circumstances of each case and determine that. There are plenty of people who get legal prescriptions for adderall or pain medication who abuse them just as there are lots of people who don't take the time to get the proper prescription for whatever reason and still very much need the drugs.

 

[coldweatherblue]

just the fact that there is a discussion about this is evidence that it is more honorable/respectable to study without the use of unprescribed Adderall and its variants.

Do you ever see someone asking the question: "Is it unethical to study naturally; getting good sleep, eating right and working hard in order to learn the material?" No.

No one wonders about that because it is very obviously the best, most respectable way to learn. The very fact that there is a question about the ethics of taking unprescribed meds is evidence that it is not the best way to study.

 

[foster033]

just the fact that there is a discussion about this is evidence that it is more honorable/respectable to study without the use of unprescribed Adderall and its variants.

Do you ever see someone asking the question: "Is it unethical to study naturally; getting good sleep, eating right and working hard in order to learn the material?" No.

No one wonders about that because it is very obviously the best, most respectable way to learn. The very fact that there is a question about the ethics of taking unprescribed meds is evidence that it is not the best way to study.

That makes no sense...you can't assume because there is controversy around something that it is bad. There are two sides (sometimes more) to almost every issue...ethics is more a matter of opinion, so why you think something is unethical other people might find it perfectly acceptable.

Studying without any medication is obviously not the best for everybody or adderall wouldn't exist.

prescriptions aside, because that's really only a question of legality, the real question should be is it ethical to take adderall at all?

 

[coldweatherblue]

Studying without any medication is obviously not the best for everybody or adderall wouldn't exist.

The indications for Adderall are not poor study habits; Adderall was developed to treat narcolepsy and ADHD. If a person lacks the dedication and intelligence to pursue a demanding career (be it law, medicine, business, etc) he has no right illegally taking a prescription drug to make up for his natural inability, imo.

Again, no one is accusing people who study naturally of anything unethical, so why not just bust ass and learn the stuff on your own? What's the excuse, can't concentrate? Can't sit still? Is that another way of saying, "I'm not dedicated enough to pursue this career but instead of bowing out gracefully and finding a career that uses my natural abilities I will attempt to self-medicate in order to live up to the expectations of my family/society."?

I just know too many kids who walked into a psych office, fidgeted around a bit, interrupted the psychiatrist, and walked out with adderall prescriptions, which they in turn sold at a profit or abused. Too many friends who were taken by their parents to a pysch to get adderall to help their "ADHD" only to end up not being able to sleep for weeks on end, having their natural personalities changed, selling the stuff, etc.

You can either take adderall to study and worry about what will happen if people find out, losing self-respect, and paying money to random people, OR you can do it all naturally and never worry about any of that stuff. Which way is better? Obviously doing it naturally is better; some people just make excuses for why they need something when what they really mean is that they can't hack it. Peace.

 

[foster033]

The indications for Adderall are not poor study habits; Adderall was developed to treat narcolepsy and ADHD. If a person lacks the dedication and intelligence to pursue a demanding career (be it law, medicine, business, etc) he has no right illegally taking a prescription drug to make up for his natural inability, imo.

Again, no one is accusing people who study naturally of anything unethical, so why not just bust ass and learn the stuff on your own? What's the excuse, can't concentrate? Can't sit still? Is that another way of saying, "I'm not dedicated enough to pursue this career but instead of bowing out gracefully and finding a career that uses my natural abilities I will attempt to self-medicate in order to live up to the expectations of my family/society."?

I just know too many kids who walked into a psych office, fidgeted around a bit, interrupted the psychiatrist, and walked out with adderall prescriptions, which they in turn sold at a profit or abused. Too many friends who were taken by their parents to a pysch to get adderall to help their "ADHD" only to end up not being able to sleep for weeks on end, having their natural personalities changed, selling the stuff, etc.

You can either take adderall to study and worry about what will happen if people find out, losing self-respect, and paying money to random people, OR you can do it all naturally and never worry about any of that stuff. Which way is better? Obviously doing it naturally is better; some people just make excuses for why they need something when what they really mean is that they can't hack it. Peace.

Actually, adderall is approved to treat narcolepsy and ADHD, but it was originally used as a weight loss drug, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't oppose using the drug as a study aid simply b/c I really don't care what other people do, you also have to consider the argument that non-prescription use doesn't always equate to not actually needing the drug, which you haven't done.

Anyway, you seem to think that if a kid in college wants to go out and have a good time with friends instead of study that he is unintelligent or doesn't care about his future career. That's a stupid thing to suggest...people have different priorities at different times in their lives...undergrad is a time to let loose and have fun, you have the rest of your life to be serious. If you want to be a doctor it seems you're not allowed to do anything but b/c there is now so much competition that you have to be virtually perfect in order to get an acceptance to med school, and there's no forgiveness on grades, no matter how old they are or how much better you're doing now.

And those excuses you mention about not being able to concentrate or sit still are the exact reason adderall is prescribed in the first place, are they still excuses if you have a prescription?

 

[bozz]

I respect that...it's your own personal choice, you have to do what's right for you, as does everyone...

but the reason so many people take adderall is to keep up with all the ridiculousness you have to go through today to get into med school/law school/enter your choice of school here. Everyone is trying to be better than the last person and look where it's gotten us. Competition is good but it seems it's gotten to the point where you almost have to do something that comprises you is some way along the journey...whether that's adderall, taking easy classes instead of the ones you're actually interested in, taking an easier major, withdrawing from classes you think you might get a B in, doing research you hate, etc.

I'm sure I'm going to get slaughtered with people telling me how the did everything by the book and they've succeeded, and I bet there are lots of people who have but I think more and more doing your best just isn't good enough, you need to do more.

Now that you mention that, I'm actually excited that many people are taking it ... If so people really feel like it's almost essential, that's something I'd like to prove wrong to myself. I'd like to see how I match up with the people who are on it.

You can either take adderall to study and worry about what will happen if people find out, losing self-respect, and paying money to random people, OR you can do it all naturally and never worry about any of that stuff. Which way is better? Obviously doing it naturally is better; some people just make excuses for why they need something when what they really mean is that they can't hack it. Peace.

I agree.. I'd rather not even worry about this issue

 

[coldweatherblue]

Anyway, you seem to think that if a kid in college wants to go out and have a good time with friends instead of study that he is unintelligent or doesn't care about his future career. That's a stupid thing to suggest...people have different priorities at different times in their lives...undergrad is a time to let loose and have fun, you have the rest of your life to be serious.

hah, didn't mean to imply that at all! it's a really funny to say if you knew me and my friends in undergrad. I meant that if you can't study when it counts (ie. the night before the exam) and you don't have a prescription, it is not good to take something like adderall to make up for it. By all means go out... I went out probably 4-5 times a week in undergrad and I'm not going to go into details because this is a professional forum.. but it was enough that I consider myself really lucky to be starting med school in two days. You still gotta keep your studying in balance though; if you can't party and get good grades, you should cut down and study hard rather than partying and taking adderall to make up for it. JMHO. I don't mean to make judgments on any individual case, just a generalization about what is the best way to go about studying, even though it may be unrealistic for some.

RE: people who have prescriptions... that's a touchier subject. Like I said before I know enough people who intentionally tricked a psychiatrist into prescribing Adderall or have been taken by their parents to get a prescription that has not ended well that I don't respect the drug. I'm sure it has uses but ultimately I think its over-prescription does more harm than its correct prescription does good. jmo.

 

[Lacheln]

I'm sure it has uses but ultimately I think its over-prescription does more harm than its correct prescription does good. jmo.

How so?

 

[SarsMO]

Anyway, you seem to think that if a kid in college wants to go out and have a good time with friends instead of study that he is unintelligent or doesn't care about his future career. That's a stupid thing to suggest...people have different priorities at different times in their lives...undergrad is a time to let loose and have fun, you have the rest of your life to be serious. If you want to be a doctor it seems you're not allowed to do anything but b/c there is now so much competition that you have to be virtually perfect in order to get an acceptance to med school, and there's no forgiveness on grades, no matter how old they are or how much better you're doing now.

Maybe this is the issue (in bold). Since when did college become a time for letting loose and having fun? I always thought it was a time to further my education, and I damn sure think it should be taken seriously. Maybe if more people shared my view we wouldn't have college students popping pills to be able to study through that hangover on a Tuesday...and Wednesday...and Thursday...

And for the record, I had a lot of fun as an UG, but I didn't do it at the expense of my education.

 

[coldweatherblue]

How so?

Read the sentence prior to the part you quoted.

Just anecdotal evidence. If you want to get a better perspective search for "over-prescription of adderall". jmo.

 

[Lacheln]

Read the sentence prior to the part you quoted.

Just anecdotal evidence. If you want to get a better perspective search for "over-prescription of adderall". jmo.

I did, but I don't think it makes sense to say it does more harm than good just because you know of more negative outcomes than positive. a) it's stigmatized - if people are actually ADD/ADHD and are benefiting from it they are less likely to talk about it than people who have had a negative experience. b) plural of anecdotes isn't data.

I do think it's over-prescribed, and I'm aware of the controversy, but it really benefits a lot of people - they aren't lesser people for taking advantage of options available to them. My ex for example was brilliant, but never did well in school due to his ADD - on ritalin he was amazing. He should have kept his contributions to himself in order to...in order to what?

People are just overly critical of brain-based issues. Nobody questions whether somatic complaints should be addressed in order to improve quality of life. Anyway, didn't mean to get sucked into this.

 

[atomi]

No it's ******ed. It's just as much of a drug as cocaine or amphetamine. Would you take those? Just because it's legal doesn't mean squat. It's still a drug and don't put drugs in your body unless you need them to live/function.

I can't believe anybody who wants to be a doctor would abuse drugs.

 

[foster033]

Maybe this is the issue (in bold). Since when did college become a time for letting loose and having fun? I always thought it was a time to further my education, and I damn sure think it should be taken seriously. Maybe if more people shared my view we wouldn't have college students popping pills to be able to study through that hangover on a Tuesday...and Wednesday...and Thursday...

And for the record, I had a lot of fun as an UG, but I didn't do it at the expense of my education.

Yes, college is about getting an education, but it's also a time to explore who you really are and what you really want to do, it has always been that way...but it seems like these days you better know what it is before you get there or you might be screwed.

It's unrealistic to ask 18 years olds, many who have never been away from home, to immediately become responsible adults without much supervision and always make the right decision. I don't think the majority of people are mature enough for college when they're 18 and find it hard to handle the social pressures that go along it. Which sounds more fun?... doing your homework or going out with your friends...most people know the responsible thing to do but are afraid of missing out on the social experience and find that with adderall they can overextend themselves without forfeiting their grades. The increased use is just a symptom of the unhealthy education system in this country.