Is verbal the most important score in the MCAT?

[mag master]

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Sometimes I hear people say that the verbal is the most important section in the MCAT because it says a lot about one's intellectual.

They say both science sections tell mostly how much you understand the materials. I don't completely agree with this above statement simply because that I see it also takes comprehension and integration to apply the basic knowledge.

Well, sometimes I also hear people say the MCAT score is a good indicator for how well one can do for the future Step I & II. However, do they mean the overall score or only the verbal section?

It may be obvious...the reason I ask this is... English is my second language and I did honestly try very hard to prepare for the MCAT. Both times I did not score well on the verbal section, although I did manage to get an overall fine score.

Repeat MCAT may not be a good idea since I already tried twice. Besides, the thought of retaking MCAT can give me a nightmare already… Yet, I only have one interview this past year, is it because my verbal score just won't cut it?

 

[Papa Smurf]

Yes verbal is the most important section on the MCAT. The reason is b/c there is apparently a correlation b/t verbal reasoning scores and performance during the 3rd year in med school according to the AAMC. Having said that, I think the VR section is the stupidest section on any standardized exam ever, save for the analytical/logic section on the GRE which was a colossal waste of an hour. To be honest, the Verbal reasoning section is nothing more than an exercise in speed reading and making inferences.

I really feel bad for you coz English is your second language, and hell, it's hard enough to do well on that section when all you've ever spoken is English. There are certain nuances in all languages that make them very difficult to pick up after a certain age. It's especially difficult in this respect, because so many of the questions on the VR section are in regards to the author's tone, etc, something very difficult to deduce unless you're comfortable reading English fluently and picking up on the subtle nuances and connotations of certain words/phrases.

I don't mean to offend you, but I would hate to be in your position. It's pretty much like being discriminated against for something beyond your control.

 

[nap]

I dont think that verbal is the most important...if i was to score below a 10 in something, that is the section i would want to score it in. That said, it depends how low of a verbal score you have. If its an 8 or 9, and you score well on the other two section, I doubt its as much of an issue. But below an 8 might be a problem. That is the case for any of the sections though, so really, i dont think its worse to get a 9 in verbal than in ps or bs, and I really doubt you would be that heavily discriminated against. but like any section, if you score too low it can really hurt you.

 

[borya_2002]

i don't think that you were born in another country has anything to do with this. my dad reads lots of books in russian. and he's very smart he doesn't speak english well, but he still does extremely well on reading comprehension, even not knowing many of the words. but i hate reading in russian and in english, so i memorized the dictionary words for the analogy section of sat1 and did well on that. but on reading comprehension i remember getting 32/40 after lots of practice. my dad got 37/40 and he was having a smoke during his test and finished the passages early!!

 

[borya_2002]

if you look at admissions websites of most schools i.e. nyu, they say something to the effect off 3.6gpa and 10+ on each section of mcat or spare your time and don't apply.

 

[lyle]

actually, the NYU materials say, essentially, "10's in the science sections or apply later", but they did not make specifications for the verbal. No section is the "most important". I scored an 8 in the verbal and interviewed at great schools (including NYU). top 5 schools. A great verbal score will definitely help you, but do not panic if you are below 10. You will still get into medical school. And if AAMC feels that a correlation exists between the verbal reasoning on the MCAT and performance during the third year of med. school, someone needs to kick them in the head. That is absurd. Standardized test = a measure of interpersonal skills. No bleepin' way. Whether that's what AAMC believes or not, I still think someone should kick them in the head for a number of reasons which I will not dive into here.

 

[borya_2002]

common, to a large extent, such standardized tests are a measure of iq. if you have students from same class getting same grade of A or B, and their scores are so different, it says something. and if "the student is just good at taking standardized tests", well then the student just has a higher iq. but of course you can study for the verbal section by reading a lot of similar passages. and for science, by reading the science material. but most students read it, and next day after their midterm they don't know ****.

 

[shorrin]

depends which school. I was told that UIC ranks the scores Bio > Physci > Verbal

 

[SMW]

The majority of schools weigh the verbal section the highest. There is a proven correlation between verbal scores and performance on the USMLE. It's not a matter of belief, but of research, lyle.

 

[Parrothead123]

I scored an 8 on the verbal section and have been accepted to 4 schools. I had always heard that the verbal was the most important section, but it did not seem to play role in my application. I was not asked about it, which was supprising. My father is an English teacher and I feel as though I have a good grasp on the English language. Borya, or whomever you are, I don't feel that the verbal section measures your intelligence or IQ as much as it measures your skills at reading comprehension. I am not much of a reader, so I got killed on that section. If I had read more and practiced more passages and not been as nervous, I would've done better on the verbal section, but does that mean i would have a higher IQ? The verbal section is imporant, as is every section, but it is not the be-all and end-all. Keep plugging away and you'll be in good shape. Although the two major components of admittance are the MCATs and GPa, there are other ways of getting into medical school if you're below par in those categories. Good luck to all!

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."

Mark Twain

 

[borya_2002]

if this research does not support affirmative action, it's bad research!!

 

[borya_2002]

ParrotHead, i agree with you. and as i said in my message above, if you read a lot, it helps. but it's not merely "good at taking standardized tests"<-because that just means higher iq. i also don't like to read much and have basically lazyness towards academics as opposed to sports.

but i'm sure if you do read a lot and have high iq, you'll do well on the test. while dumber people will still fail.

 

[rajneel1]

of course some of you got into medical school with less than 10 in verbal (i/c me)....they look at the whole application!!!!! but a low score, less than i think like 8 in verbal can kill your chances of getting into a medical school and will most definitely kill your chances at a top 20 school or something. verbal is very important and the hardest to get.
doing well on verbal is a plus (none is going to look at your mcat separately but a low score in verbal and a high score in the sciences will be a red flag). many people i know have suffered because of low verbal scores!!!

 

[Doctora Foxy]

borya, I don't think a high standardized test score is a measure of one's IQ. Have you taken an IQ test before? I have, and it wasn't a standardized test. Some people are just better at taking standardized tests than others. Of course other factors come into play, like how one works under pressure, or how good their reading comprehension is. I just don't see how you're making the correlation of standardized test scores to IQ. 😕

In any case, I think math could possibly be a better predictor of IQ, because it minimizes outside influences (like reading a lot, not knowing the language well, etc.)

ok, sorry, I didn't mean to ramble off topic. I think adcoms may view the verbal score with more weight because as doctors-to-be, most people have studied hard and are good at science, but since you can't study for verbal, they might add more weight to that score as an equalizer of some sort.

 

[borya_2002]

as i said before, i agree that how much you read can be more important than iq. but no such thing as "i'm not good filling out multiple choice blablabla". i know some people get nervous, but that's because they know they'll do bad on the test-nothing to be nervous about if you're up to the challenge. perhaps math section is better at measuring iq, but if you studied h.s. algebra well, you really need not be a genious to do well. also, it's more likely that people who like to read happen to have high iq's. there are lots of hunters living in remote places, like alaska or russia, and i'm sure many of them like to read outside of hunting.

but perhaps i was wrong with referring to iq. what makes this test really important is that you must like to read and memorize stuff to do well in med school-meaning not just pass, but be excellent.

no i didn't take an iq test, they don't give one in USSR. but i believe it's a timed multiple choice test, no?
i think i'm pretty smart, but there are obviously smarter people. my point is that a smart person can fail MCAT(though it would take him less effort to study to do well), but there is no way that someone with <100 iq would do well.

 

[borya_2002]

also i know many students don't actually read their chemistry or physics books. they just use some notes to study for the tests. so this test may check that people can actually read the chemistry book and understand the concepts without any underlined keywords.

 

[rxfudd]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by borya_2002:
•i know some people get nervous, but that's because they know they'll do bad on the test-nothing to be nervous about if you're up to the challenge.
•••••!!!!!!!!!

Go tell that to the thousands of people who panic around 7:55 AM each time the MCAT is administered.

 

[RT]

The Verbal section has been made difficult for the native. It's almost impossible to score well if English is your second language. While med schools generally indicate that they consider this factor while evaluating applicants, there would still be a lack of fairness in the application process especially in this aspect.

However, it's difficult for schools to do otherwise since they have proven scientific evidence indicating that Verbal score reflects performance in medical school and board exams. That's when affirmative action and URM status come handy. They give students a chance to become admitted to medical schools.

But it's again unfortunate to realize that URM status only applies certain groups of minorities. Many ethnic groups could be classified as URM but since they belong to a larger non-URM group, these groups receive basically little assistance in getting to medical school. The fortunate part is that the AAMC is currently reviewing its definition of URM.

As my wonderful mentor said, "as Jewish I had to work twice or three times as hard to get the same effect as a normal person." Meanwhile, as URM-equivalent-yet-non-URM applicants, we just have to cope with the hapless nature of living in a society where linguistic skills are essential to academic success. Hopefully our hard work will pay back someday in the future.

I feel your pain.

Charlie

PS: Btw PapaSmurf, I really like your comment.

 

[HanSolo]

I'm gonna add my $0.02 to the discussion. I believe the 2 most important sections in the MCAT are the Verbal R and Bio-sci. Some schools will weigh 1 more than the other and vice versa. An exceptional score on the BS (13-15) will compensate for a low par grade on the VR for non-native English speaker; however anything <8 in VR is probably not gonna do it for ya.
Borya_02 wrote: •••quote:•••there is no way that someone with <100 iq would do well.
••••Guess what Borya, I had <100iq, heck I even flunked the stupid Stanford 9?? test in high school, and still get double digits in the VR and BS in the MCAT, and guess what Borya...I'm going to UCSD 😎 It seems to me that you are making grand statements from the pinnacle of your relatively "modest" knowledge 🙄

 

[Asclepius]

A thorough IQ test can take the better part of a day, and several different types of intelligences are tested...the ability to understand mathmatical and spatial relationships, to visualize certain described images, to recall sequences of numbers, to desribe pictures of people interacting, and much more. The main point is that there are several types of intelligences, few of which can be tested by a standard exam. A true intelligence quotient should take them all into account.
The science sections of the MCAT test skills that are more-or-less concrete logic, application of information, and recall of data. The verbal section, as others have mentioned, would test the ability to detect nuances, reason more abstractly, and make inferences. The language of the verbal section shouldn't be that difficult for most native english-speakers, so the ability to make inferences, etc. is actually being tested somewhat. For non-native eglish speakers, however, it must be difficult to get past the language to even begin assessing a passage more abstractly.
Anyway, "IQ" is an elusive idea...it is relative to certain subject areas and conditions. I'm sure all the geniuses the world has ever produced were idiots in some regard.

 

[PlayaHata]

"It seems to me that you are making grand statements from the pinnacle of your relatively "modest" knowledge " Cong

Damn Cong that's good language I'm impressed. I agree with you but you said it best!

 

[trouta]

Along the lines of what Papa Smurf was saying, I have heard that the verbal is the most important section because adcoms and AMCAS believe it relates to how well you are able to communicate. Obviously standardized tests are not fool-proof and Im sure adcoms take this into account and let the interview offset verbal scores if needed.

However there is never a hard and fast rule. Many other elements of an application can offset poor scores in any of the sections.

 

[anteater]

Hey Mag Master,

I am gonna keep this simple, but I think you'll be ok if you verbal is not so hot and you are not a native speaker. I think schools really do take that into consideration, especially if you can impress them w/ your interpersonal skills during the interview. If your verbal was 8 or more (maybe even a 7, i hear that still worked out for people who weren't native speakers), and the rest of your sections were above a 10, you should leave the MCAT alone and just focus on the rest of your application and see how you can buff it. Anyway, that's the lesson I got from my interview experiences, and I had a lot...I feel your pain, verbal is a big goof, that's why I retook the MCAT (I got really nervous during the VR section and messed up). Good luck!

 

[panicking]

I am glad to hear a rumor that VR is the most important section and I hope that is true because it is my strongest section. However, I have a hard time beleiving it. It looks to me that BS should be the most important section.
My TPR instructor told me that one of his none-english speaker friend got in with 5 in VR and 14 and 15 in the other two sections. There are allways places for exceptional people.

 

[Tweetie_bird]

I have been speaking english since I was 5; lived in another country till I was 15; and now that I've been living in the USA, I still speak another language at home. It goes without saying, that not speaking in english at home definately affects me. My articulation is superb, yet, when it comes to writing and reading, I choke. I love reading literature (for pleasure), and thank God for this hobby b/c I wouldn't even be getting the lowly 7's on my MCAT verbal practice tests that i have been. if it weren't for my hobby, that score would be lower. And my sciences were usually 12-13.

I just wanted to say that there is a difference between being able to read literature (the kind in MCAT VR) and reading science. None of that is related to speed (except on the MCAT). Infrences need to be made, yes, but only in scientific terms while being a physician. Being able to articulate yourself to your patients and peers, is MUCH MORE important, than being able to read Tolstoy and have a timed quiz afterward. But unfortunately, AAMC wants to throw us just one more hurdle before we get into med school, and it's our job to jump over it.

 

[Zack90]

From one who earned a 7 on the verbal, and had 12's in both the science sections..... I can tell you, earning less than an 8 is NOT the kiss of death to being accepted.... I've been accepted to 3 medical schools so far, turned down a couple of interviews, and been waitlisted at another. My gpa is not stellar (about a 3.3) and I'm not a URM. So, it can be done.... I believe an Admissions Committee looks at the complete application... This is also a pretty random process - each school is different. So, maximise your odds and apply to MANY schools!

 

[Chnobli]

Hi Mag Master,

I am a non-native speaker as well, and also did not well in the verbal section... I still got 3 acceptances. Make sure not to apply to the Oregon Health Science University as they require an 8 on each section. I could have saved money and time if I knew that before applying.

Thus, if the rest of your application is in good shape, don't worry about the stupid verbal score (man, how I hated that section...). I still get goose-bumps just from remembering my struggle with the verbal... Also, having a high score on the writing section and good grades in the non-science classes may help you convince the committee that you can master the English language (that was the case in my situation).

Being bi-lingual and bi-cultural will give you an advantage in dealing with the diverse patient population living in the US... These patients surely won't ask you what you scored on the verbal :wink: ...

Good luck!

Chnobli
😀

 

[Taty]

My pre-med advisor told me that Med Schools do consider if English is your native language or not( esp. if your science score 14-15).
I have been lived in the USA for 2 years and I score on my practice tests 9's always, maybe because I read a lot.