It can be all good if you want it to be

whoa.

edit: okay i'll elaborate.
path: according to the path forums, there's too many residency spots open that doesn't support the job market. so it's a little harder to find a job in path than other specialties.
rad: 240+ step I score for interview. nuff said.
rad onc: i think research is pretty much a de facto requirement to go into rad onc. most who match have a phd.
derm:

 

path, yeah sure of course the match rate is high. there's too many openings.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=579266

 

Match rates are actually higher now than they were in the late 90's, when there were 40% fewer positions.

 

Uhh...
* People get into radiology without 240+ on step 1
* People get into derm without the perfect package, too

There are match statistics available that show the range of scores and research experience among people matching in each specialty.

As for "easy life," it all depends on the job you pick and not just the specialty. There are some sweet hospitalist jobs out there where you work only like 48 hrs per week. Outpatient primary care's hours are dictated by how much you want to make and what sort of patient populations you see.

You should find something that you love to do for a career. If you're actually smart enough to get through medical school and residency, you are able to have your pick of careers.

 

oh and gas isn't exactly a walk in the park to match into.

my point is this: there's some people who go into med school wanting to do a ROAD specialty but end up "settling" for primary care b/c of board scores, grades, etc. so yeah, i think you should at least LIKE medicine b/c you could probably end up in one of those "BS" specialities you mentioned.

 

could the OP..maybe rephrase what he/she is trying to say, because I am exactly one of those people sitting here on the fence about "should I continue to go through these science classes, or should I just jump out and go ace a bunch of humanities classes to get into law school" people...I just wana hear ya exactly

 

okay rads example was a bit of a hyperbole. my point is that rads is pretty competitive to be banking on getting into.

 

I think ER would be on that list rather than derm in terms of difficulty to be matched into

 

Clearly you can see what are the top tier residencies for match purposes. Note anesthesiology and EM are not among the top tier.

 

jake2 rules

 

I agree, this is very refreshing to at least hear.

 

Great post OP. I could be happy in 1000 other jobs besides medicine. I chose medicine because it is a fulfilling career, it pays well, its stable, and it is intellectually challenging. Some people have more romantic reasons for choosing medicine--not me.

 

It can be all good if you want it to be.....boring. Too bad surgery's so interesting.

 

I don't want to enter medicine for solely for the salary, but for the intellectual stimulation, patient contact, most likely. Just wondering, how is the lifestyle of a pediatrics and pediatric specialties? I know that must greatly vary upon specialty, but just wanted to get an idea.

 

I...don't...understand... a medical student poster on SDN who is not overbearingly negative? What is the world coming to...
-Roy

 

Interesting, informative thread. What's gas though?

ps. Gut Shot, you have an awesome avatar. That scene broke me.

 

pediatrics is considered primary care. subspecialties aren't. so peds lifestyle, i imagine, would be a lot your PCP.

shocking

anesthesiology

 

I see EM being thrown around in this thread.. is that a lifestyle specialty? I figured it would be a slight step up from primary care (long long hours for comparably ****ty compensation). Please educate me if I'm wrong because it's a field that I am really interested in.
-Roy

 

All of the doctors I work with here in the ER seem to have a pretty nice lifestyle. Four 10 hour shifts per week for most of them, and they work with one another to schedule vacations.

 

And I should add that the more senior docs get the best shifts/shedules.

 

Oh damn, 4x10hr shifts, that sounds great. Are all EM positions like this or only the most sought after? How about compensation? Thanks for your input MadEvans, really eye opening stuff.


edit: i see that you are a skateboarder too, I was just doing a really late night sesh and i just snapped my board in two trying to grind a bench right outside my apartment. story of my life.

 

I also want to say that my biggest fear about entering medicine is having to work 60+hr work weeks for the rest of my life. I really think medicine is for me and it would be a shame if I got stuck in a position where a majority of my week was spent working and say, not spending time with my family etc.

 

You could probably find the true "facts" of the matter by doing a search here on SDN in the doctor forums or even just on google, but most of my knowledge just comes from talking here with doctors. Much of what they say may be inaccurate for national averages, gross generalizations, and the like... but, I've gotten by fine by their advice so far. One doctor I know had instate tuition at a CA school then came to work over here. She says she made enough money (from her salary total) to pay off all of her loans within one year, assuming she had ZERO other expenses. May not be that much, but her saying it that way just made it sound amazing and very appealing.

Sorry about your board. Us wood pushers are a minority in the pre-med realm... it's good to meet another one.

 

No, you'll be able to work it out I'm sure. A medical doctor degree is quite versatile... one of the docs here used to do medical journalism full time. It's not a restrictive degree that only allows you to do a few, certain things.

 

It broke a lot of us. Permanently.

 

While some of what you write makes sense, I'd suggest that if you have no passion in life and just want to make it day to day, then medicine is an extraordinarily bad choice. It is not a good day to day job. It's a job that is hugely consuming -- will such up much of your twenties during school and residency, and then require you to put in long hours, always keep reading, always need to keep abreast of the changes in your field. You will never get to the point in your career when you can safely say, I'm done with the learning phase, now I can just put in a normal week and enjoy myself on the weekends. You will in all probability be working 60+ hours a week in almost any specialty, and expected to be informed on the various field specific articles/studies. It is simply not a good job to be putting in your time until you can go home. There are plenty of jobs where that's the mindset -- where you don't need to keep learning, don't need to put in crazy hours during training, aren't held to such liability, aren't expected to pass relicensing exams and keep up to date on current changes and developments. They aren't in the professions, but they exist in abundance. If your goal is to make it day to day, then that is a much smarter direction.

As for telling folks -- you can always do a ROAD specialty -- that's just not going to be true for most of the class at most schools. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't advise someone looking at med schools to go if their sole goal was derm or rads. Because most likely they won't get it. About half of all folks going to med school are going to realistically have to decide between primary care, and other noncompetitive things. And a lot of the hours in those things aren't as good, nor is the pay as impressive. But if you are going into medicine because you like the idea of being a clinician, find it interesting, like working with people etc, then sure, it might be a good fit, because even on the down side you probably will be able to satisfy these sentiments.

I don't think you need a "passion" for helping people, or have known since childhood that you wanted to be a surgeon, etc. But I do think that when you are picking a path that requires 4 weeks of schooling, plus 3-7 years of residency (during which you may be working 80 hour weeks), plus possibly a fellowship, before heading into a practice that still probably requires 60+ hour work weeks, you have to like it. You cannot look at it as a "live for the weekends" or get through day by day kind of job. This is going to be the majority of hours of your awake life for the rest of your life. You have to really like it.

Folks who have no choices in life take the 9-5 jobs where they do something they don't care about and live for the weekends. They are basically "doing time" until they die. Folks who get into med school do have choices in their life, choices many americans don't. They are among the top educated folks in the country, with good grades and lots of doors open to them. When you are in that situation you HAVE to find something you enjoy and go with it. You are foolish if you figure -- well, this is safe and stable so I will "do my time" here. You are squandering the opportunity to find and do something you find enjoyable and fulfilling. Saying "I have no passion for anything" is really just saying you didn't take the time to figure out what you have passion for. Everyone has likes/dislikes -- you just have to spend enough time figuring out what they are. Lots of premeds don't, because the science courses, research and ECs eat up a lot of time in college. But it's a big mistake. Sorry, but I read the first post in this thread as a bit of a cop out by someone who didn't spend the time necessary to figure out where their passions lay.

 

I thought the hours were long in anesthesiology. Also, how much patient interaction is there? I'm looking at the primary care fields -- IM and peds -- because I love dealing with patients. I know residency will be tough, but I'm hoping I'll still have time for family as an attending.

 

I never understand why psychiatry isn't considered a lifestyle specialty. Granted it doesn't guarantee great hours with amazing pay like, say, dermatology, but most psychiatrists do pretty well on both those fronts. Those placing a higher premium on work hours tend to find salaried positions and work 40 hour weeks, while those who are willing to work more to make more usually go into private practice. Plus, as a U.S. medical student you are all but guaranteed to match into psychiatry, so there's no "I went to medical school to become an anesthesiologist and now I have to settle for primary care" dilemma. So, yeah, I want to go to medical school to become a psychiatrist and I am not at all worried about having to settle for something else.

I think I know what the OP meant in saying you don't need a "passion" for medicine to make becoming a physician a smart career choice. Would I say, at this moment, that I have a passion for medicine? No. I have a passion for literary theory, but I do not particularly want to be an English professor who can't get tenured and is always wondering where the next teaching gig is going to come from. Do I think I would enjoy working as a psychiatrist enough to deal with all the attendant headaches and responsibilities (not to mention the insanely long and intense* training)? Yes, or I wouldn't be on this path in the first place.

I think part of the problem is that the word "passion" has different meanings to different people. Some people use it to mean "something I would do all day long if I didn't have to get a job and could do whatever I wanted with my time." Those people get nervous when other people talk about the need for having a passion for medicine. The second group don't understand what the first group is so upset about, as they simply meant to say you should enjoy medicine if you decide to be a doctor.


*Of course psychiatry is known for having one of the more manageable residencies-- yet another benefit to choosing this specialty.

 

Hey why did you take my signature ?
-Roy

 

Dude... what the freak are you talking about???

Outside of monetary compensation, one big issue that pulls a lot of people away from Peds (including myself) are the crazy parents.

After speaking with two ER docs that switched into Rads, the shift-work lifestyle gets old very quickly (particularly when you're covering graveyard hours). You also have to deal with the high volume of BS patients that have no business being in the ER.

Crazy patients = high maintenance patients. Spitters, punchers, biters, the pee-on-themself-ers... you name it, psych has it.

There are positives and negatives to every specialty.

 

If I remember right, I read over on the EM board that the burn out rate is about the same (if not less) than other fields.

 

I was just trying to say that the "pleasant" specialties that OP was referring to are a bit difficult to obtain. Sorry if my post was incoherent.

 

so i really dont know much about match stats at all....but I am somewhat interested in EM and I was wondering just how difficult it is to match in EM. I know that today it is being considered more of a lifestyle specialty but I thought that it was still a "middle of the road" type of specialty as far as difficulty to match into it goes.

any info greatly appreciated

 

look at post 12. it goes from competitive to noncompetitive from left to right, generally speaking. and some programs in a field are more competitive than others. for instance, categorical IM programs are more competitive than community IM programs b/c the former sends IM grads to more competitive fellowships like cards and GI.

 

Thanks, the computer I was one earlier didnt show the graphic for post 12

 

Hey Enjoy and Madevans, I'm a fellow skateboarder too! We are a rare breed in the pre-med community for sure. And not to brag, but Bobby Worrest is one of my good friends...

 

Most med school grads could become a hospitalist or pediatric hospitalist if they wanted. You can have pretty good control of your hours there, and everybody knows that virtually anyone can get into IM or peds at least somewhere. I agree that advice of "Just be a radiologist or dermatologist and live the life!" is absurd for the majority.

 

Thanks to the OP for posting this. I am very passionate about medicine, so I don't mind the long hours and hard work that physicians face, but it bothers me a bit how some people on SDN make it seem as if physicians have absolutely no life. Like the OP, I think medicine is such a huge field that there's room for most science-oriented people to find something they'll enjoy.

If you don't like science, though... I don't think medicine is for you. But you knew that already .

 

But is being a radiologist really "living the life?" I mean, there are all sort of emergency situations that need emergency imaging right, so you'd still have to be on call. Someone elaborate on this specialty's position as a "lifestyle" specialty.

 

^^
Radiology IS a lifestyle specialty. I mean, what else do you call working in your underwear?

Well, in EM you can work in pajamas.

 

Oh ****, I would brag about that all day if I could.. the only thing I have is that I am close to some sweet skateparks in venice beach etc.. Haha being a skateboarder also means I have had quite a bit of experience with ortho surgeons. To keep to the topic, it seems like the ortho surg that has helped with my family's broken bones has quite a nice lifestyle, however he tells me the path to being an orthopedic surgeon is rocky. Could anybody elaborate?

(doc and mad what do you ride if you don't mind me asking, and do you guys longboard too?)

 

ok. a few points are being overlooked here.....

if you are counting on going into any of the "specialty" lifestyles ...you are forgetting that there is a HUGE step called training before you get to that point. you will be even more miserable than avg during med school and residency

also, in today's career world - practically all paths that lead to a high degree of "job success" are intense. i-banking, law school, etc etc etc. so choose the intensity path that you at least enjoy. goodness.......

how many of you have actually worked a full time job for several months that you DISLIKED? how was it?
you really need to think about that when you think about going into medicine for only PRACTICAL reasons- stability, salary, etc.....

as a personal anecdote, im fresh out of college- may 08 grad- and working an entry level job which i ABSOLUTELY hate. now, i started out thinking, so what? i'll enjoy myself on evenings and weekends, but soon realized that it doesnt work that way. its still completely blowsss to dislike your job, because you are there for a significant portion of your time.

i think back to times in college that i may have been at the library on a saturday night- i have weekends completely free now
i think back to times when i had to rush from my daily craziness to grab dinner as fast as possible and spend all night in the library- after 5 pm i'm free to do whatever i want now.

so, even though my "lifestyle" is better now- i am still miserable. i am miserable because it is NOT FULFILLING to my entire existence.

if you do something you truly enjoy, then even if it is longer and harder- you will STILLLLLL enjoy it. i enjoyed studying so i felt happier then than i do now with much more free time.

also, please realize that there are far more options in medicine than i think most pre meds realize. as a woman, i have mulled over lifestyle issues as a physician and have talked to many female physicians. there is always a way to do it- sacrifices will be made.

you are forgetting that physicians can have larger practices- larger as in more physicians- and split more days etc. sure, at the end of the day they may be making less, but like i said- sacrifices will need to be made.

 

It can be as shift work of a specialty as there ever was. Somebody is going to have to work overnight somewhere, but at the children's hospital I just rotated through, they send out some of their overnight imaging to some remote center, and the staff radiologists are just there during the day. The final reads all come from in-house staff.

Virtually every specialty, except things like derm and PM&R, are going to have some component of overnight work. It's just more tolerable if you don't have to work overnight after working all day and you have to work the next day as well.