It can be all good if you want it to be

[samisab786]

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also, please realize that there are far more options in medicine than i think most pre meds realize. as a woman, i have mulled over lifestyle issues as a physician and have talked to many female physicians. there is always a way to do it- sacrifices will be made.

Yeah, I feel like I'm mulling over lifestyle issues as well. Can you explain the options? I've heard many people become frustrated over the "long-hours" and I don't feel like I know many of the options simply because most of the females who I have spoken to who do medicine aren't too thrilled with their jobs.

 

[smq123]

Thanks to the OP for posting this. I am very passionate about medicine, so I don't mind the long hours and hard work that physicians face, but it bothers me a bit how some people on SDN make it seem as if physicians have absolutely no life. Like the OP, I think medicine is such a huge field that there's room for most science-oriented people to find something they'll enjoy.

The OP's point was not that you'll find a field that will make you happy.

The OP's point is that medicine offers many fields that are lifestyle-friendly.

The problem is....what do you do when the "lifestyle friendly" fields are, well, extremely boring to you?

I have zero interest in PM&R. Zero. I don't like anesthesia all that much, don't have the attention span required for radiology, found ophtho way too limited in scope for me, and derm grosses me out. (Which says a lot, coming from someone who has watched women with awful diarrhea deliver babies.) Whenever someone came in with a rash, I was itchy for the rest of the day. Yuck.

I just want to remind everyone here trying to make the decision right now that there are pathways within medicine that make it a well compensated, secure field with a damn decent lifestyle. Internal medicine, surgery, and their subspecialties are brutal and I think you have to truly love those fields to be happy in them. Family practice and primary care in general is filled with so much bullsh*t that it's hard to find a happy niche there. I've never run into a happy OB/GYN.

Actually, I HAVE met a number of happy OB/gyns, but that's beside the point.

Obviously, there are good lifestyles in medicine. That's all over SDN, and the news.

But the thing is, like anything else in medicine, you have to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario. What if you don't like any of the lifestyle specialties? What if the healthcare system changes, and the lifestyle specialties either require a) more hours, or b) are less lucrative? And you still have to survive residency and med school - what if residency is enough to break up your marriage? Heck, for some of my classmates, third year was enough to break up their relationships.

The problem on SDN is that pre-meds, across the board, really want to hear the "best case scenario," and assume that that will apply to them. The truth is, though, is that no one can guarantee that. Maybe they WILL be one of the lucky ones that falls in love with ophtho, manages to match, and works 40 hours a week for the rest of their careers. Or maybe they'll be one of the ones who hated everything except neurosurgery, and spends most of 3rd and 4th year enmeshed in a constant internal debate of interest vs. lifestyle. No one knows.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Maybe they WILL be one of the lucky ones that falls in love with ophtho, manages to match, and works 40 hours a week for the rest of their careers.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

[smq123]

It can be all good if you want it to be.....boring. Too bad surgery's so interesting.

👍

Yeah, I feel like I'm mulling over lifestyle issues as well. Can you explain the options? I've heard many people become frustrated over the "long-hours" and I don't feel like I know many of the options simply because most of the females who I have spoken to who do medicine aren't too thrilled with their jobs.

There are basically two types of "lifestyle friendly" specialties.

The first are the ones that are close to 9-5 jobs. That includes things like dermatology, ophtho, radiology, and pathology. These are fields with almost no life-threatening patient emergencies, and therefore most issues can wait until the morning. These are, however, quite competitive (except for pathology), and require that you be a stellar medical student in order to even be considered for them.

The second are the ones that allow for shift work. This includes emergency medicine, anesthesiology, and hospitalists/laborists. These are jobs where the individual physician doesn't matter - the jobs can be done by any physician in that field, pretty much.

In emergency med or anesthesiology, they relieve each other at prescribed intervals. Anesthesiologist A can monitor a patient's vital signs just as well as Anesthesiologist B can, so it doesn't really matter who is there during the operation, for instance.

Hospitalists and laborists are a new phenomenon that are becoming more popular. They tend to work on the "one week on, one week off" model, in which a group of hospitalists or laborists will rotate and take turns covering the patients. They often have a role in supervising residents, and basically just conduct rounds. Laborists do the same thing as hospitalists, but they work on the obstetrical units, and help deliver babies or supervise the obstetrical "emergency room." Hospitalists usually tend to be in internal medicine or pediatrics.

 

[jake2]

The OP's point was not that you'll find a field that will make you happy.

The OP's point is that medicine offers many fields that are lifestyle-friendly.

The problem is....what do you do when the "lifestyle friendly" fields are, well, extremely boring to you?

I have zero interest in PM&R. Zero. I don't like anesthesia all that much, don't have the attention span required for radiology, found ophtho way too limited in scope for me, and derm grosses me out. (Which says a lot, coming from someone who has watched women with awful diarrhea deliver babies.) Whenever someone came in with a rash, I was itchy for the rest of the day. Yuck.



Actually, I HAVE met a number of happy OB/gyns, but that's beside the point.

Obviously, there are good lifestyles in medicine. That's all over SDN, and the news.

But the thing is, like anything else in medicine, you have to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario. What if you don't like any of the lifestyle specialties? What if the healthcare system changes, and the lifestyle specialties either require a) more hours, or b) are less lucrative? And you still have to survive residency and med school - what if residency is enough to break up your marriage? Heck, for some of my classmates, third year was enough to break up their relationships.

The problem on SDN is that pre-meds, across the board, really want to hear the "best case scenario," and assume that that will apply to them. The truth is, though, is that no one can guarantee that. Maybe they WILL be one of the lucky ones that falls in love with ophtho, manages to match, and works 40 hours a week for the rest of their careers. Or maybe they'll be one of the ones who hated everything except neurosurgery, and spends most of 3rd and 4th year enmeshed in a constant internal debate of interest vs. lifestyle. No one knows.

Hmmm... my post was primarily directed at the subset of applicants who are interested in medicine because they think it might be an interesting job that would provide a good living, but are being put off because off all the talk of a lifestyle so bad that only the most dedicate could put up with it. More specifically, I was targetting the student who finds many things interesting and could be happy intellectually in almost any field, and is thus looking primarily for a job with a good lifestyle and compensation to be happy in.

There are several posts on this board that seem to imply that this is impossible in medicine, and that you should be passionate about medicine specifically or some sub-branch of it or else you can't possibly be content in the field in the face of all the difficulties involved in training and daily life. My point was that there are several areas of medicine that can provide a very comfortable life, along with an interesting job to those who are relatively broad minded.

If you are the type to find one specific thing interesting and not others, then of course there are no guarantees that you'll find something in medicine that both has a good lifestyle and involves a particular piece of content. For example, if you decide you like only neurosurgery, you're kinda screwed lifestyle-wise.

However, if you're like me, you'll find almost all fields in medicine are interesting/cool in their own way (with the exception of dermatology, seriously, rashes?) and not really be completely dedicated solely to anything, you can definitely find a field with a very comfortable lifestyle to call your own.

To be honest, I'm one of those types who would be interested in spending my life in school forever learning about different things if I were immortal and had an outside source of funding. In contrast, I had a friend who was incredibly passionate about the flute. She went to a high level conservatory and practiced the flute almost all day every day. She would tell me stories about hours spent in front of the mirror every day on pinky exercises.

My point was that if you are an intellectual dilettante like myself, don't be discouraged from entering medicine. In my opinion, if you gotta pick one field from the vast amount of choices you have if you have made it far enough in education to make it into med school, medicine is a really good choice. As long as you are relatively with it and can be about average or even slightly below average in med school, you can find an interesting/fun branch that will provide a better and more secure lifestyle than almost any non-medical field.

No "passion" to one specific thing required.

 

[jake2]

O, and yeah, I'm aware I may just be telling people what they want to hear to an extent, but I do really believe it. Seriously, if you are an open minded type, if you can get into a US med school odds are very good you can get a spot in, say, gas and love it.

Not to be too much of ***** for the anesthesiologists, but a job with 300k average earnings, and 50 something hour week in shifts, and where you get to save lives? Seriously, if you can get into the work, that is a hard job to top.

Compared to law, banking, business, entrepreneurship, engineering, consulting, etc, only the top earners in those field make more than that and they work their asses into the ground with little to no security. Sure the earnings ceiling is much, much higher, but it you have to be gifted and very lucky to get there. So if you think you could be happy in any of these fields, medicine is a darn good one for comfort and peace of mind.

And if you can get into the top half of med students nation-wide, man are your options golden.

(With of course the disclaimer that things stay the way they are and your willing to put up with a very difficult eduation until residency where you get to start doing your really cool field, albeit with bad hours.)

 

[smq123]

Hmmm... my post was primarily directed at the subset of applicants who are interested in medicine because they think it might be an interesting job that would provide a good living, but are being put off because off all the talk of a lifestyle so bad that only the most dedicate could put up with it. More specifically, I was targetting the student who finds many things interesting and could be happy intellectually in almost any field, and is thus looking primarily for a job with a good lifestyle and compensation to be happy in.

There are several posts on this board that seem to imply that this is impossible in medicine, and that you should be passionate about medicine specifically or some sub-branch of it or else you can't possibly be content in the field in the face of all the difficulties involved in training and daily life. My point was that there are several areas of medicine that can provide a very comfortable life, along with an interesting job to those who are relatively broad minded.

My point was that if you are an intellectual dilettante like myself, don't be discouraged from entering medicine. In my opinion, if you gotta pick one field from the vast amount of choices you have if you have made it far enough in education to make it into med school, medicine is a really good choice. As long as you are relatively with it and can be about average or even slightly below average in med school, you can find an interesting/fun branch that will provide a better and more secure lifestyle than almost any non-medical field.

While I agree with you to an extent, I kind of believe in the philosophy of "Don't choose general surgery just to go in a fellowship; choose it only if you can see yourself being happy as a general surgeon." In other words, realize that the worst case scenario is is that you don't actually like the daily dirty work of being an anesthesiologist/dermatologist/radiologist, and eyes freak you out, and you don't really know what other field to pursue. Or if your scores aren't good enough to get you into those fields.

I also don't feel like there's a huge need to reassure that subset of applicants. If they want to be physicians, they'll do the research into what options are open to them.

Seriously, if you are an open minded type, if you can get into a US med school odds are very good you can get a spot in, say, gas and love it.

Not to be too much of ***** for the anesthesiologists, but a job with 300k average earnings, and 50 something hour week in shifts, and where you get to save lives? Seriously, if you can get into the work, that is a hard job to top.

But I think that being broad minded isn't quite enough. You can be broad-minded, and still not like any one particular field enough to enjoy it.

I mean, intellectual interest in a wide variety of things is well and good, but I think that people still have to be willing to invest themselves in the daily work of the field.

For instance, take anesthesia. Yeah, it's a great field - pays well, and you work in shifts. Plus, as you said, you get to save lives. But there's the reverse as well - if you're careless, you can kill people, too. Even for me, as a fairly intense, surgically-oriented person, that scares the crap out of me.

One of the worst stories I'd heard was of an anesthesiologist who, during a crash c-section, accidentally intubate a woman's esophagus. By the time he discovered the mistake, she was already brain dead. While that's an extreme example, you can see how that could happen.

Radiologists, pathologists...if they make a mistake, it can really lead to a patient's death as well.

So, while I understand the point that you're trying to make, I think that people who choose medicine HAVE to have some dedication to it. It's not just a career that offers the chance of an intellectually stimulating job with good pay and decent hours.

 

[Pedsbro]

What exactly is the scope of PM&R? What would be the bread and butter? I've always been curious about this specialty, since it seems there's a lot of overlap with neurology.

 

[Isoprop]

And if you can get into the top half of med students nation-wide, man are your options golden.

that's the thing though. all premeds think they're smart but there's a 50% probability that you won't end up the top half of your class.

 

[Terpskins99]

What exactly is the scope of PM&R? What would be the bread and butter? I've always been curious about this specialty, since it seems there's a lot of overlap with neurology.

Well, I'm not an expert but from what I understand... PM&R has more to do with physical therapy and pain management. There isn't much diagnosing since the disease has already been diagnosed by another clinician. They help a lot of neurology patients (in particular stroke), but they also assist a lot of post-orthopedic surgery patients as well.

Neurology, on the other hand, spends much more of their time diagnosing their patients as well as medically managing their illnesses. Certainly identifying and localizing areas of the brain affected by stroke comprise a large portion of their patients. But neurologists also deal with the broad spectrum of other neurologic disorders including seizure, memory loss, movement disorders (parkinsons/huntingtons), autoimmunity (multiple sclerosis/guillain barre), cerebral palsy... etc.

 

[Pedsbro]

Well, I'm not an expert but from what I understand... PM&R has more to do with physical therapy and pain management. There isn't much diagnosing since the disease has already been diagnosed by another clinician. They help a lot of neurology patients (in particular stroke), but they also assist a lot of post-orthopedic surgery patients as well.

Neurology, on the other hand, spends much more of their time diagnosing their patients as well as medically managing their illnesses. Certainly identifying and localizing areas of the brain affected by stroke comprise a large portion of their patients. But neurologists also deal with the broad spectrum of other neurologic disorders including seizure, memory loss, movement disorders (parkinsons/huntingtons), autoimmunity (multiple sclerosis/guillain barre), cerebral palsy... etc.

Thanks

 

[8744]

So the point of this thread is that medicine is a fantastic career, full of happiness and light, and in which one may be insanely happy provided only that he does not land in a specialty where he is required to deal directly with messy, disgusting, smelly, and imperfect patients.

In other words, medicine is a great career the more remote you are from practicing medicine.

Folks, if you're salivating at the prospect of not seeing patients, maybe you need to reconsider your career plans.

 

[jake2]

Yeah, you all are right. What was I thinking. Unless you get an intense, almost orgasmic pleasure from working in outpatient clinics and rounding, there is no way you'll be content after medical school. You'll just be just be sad, alone, and and in a constant state of near collapse. And you need to be able to tell this after a few weeks of shadowing a GP or voluteering in the ER. Otherwise, there is no place for you in medicine.

So long as you like people and science in general, medicine can be a pretty darn good career choice peeps. Just be smart about it going in.

 

[circulus vitios]

RESIDENCY IS LIKE BEING SHOT IN THE STOMACH AND BLEEDING OUT ON A HEAPING PILE OF RAZORBLADES COATED IN SALT AND LEMON JUICE. YOU HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY LOVE MEDICINE AND GIVING RECTAL EXAMS TO EVEN CONSIDER APPROACHING THE HOLY ALTAR OF MEDICINE (PEACE BE UPON IT).

I get really sick of reading all of the doom and gloom posts. Yes, I get that it's a demanding profession that has its ups and downs. But why the hell are some people so negative about it ALL THE TIME? Are they really that unhappy with their situation that they have to constantly tell others about how hard and unfulfilling it is?

 

[Pedsbro]

RESIDENCY IS LIKE BEING SHOT IN THE STOMACH AND BLEEDING OUT ON A HEAPING PILE OF RAZORBLADES COATED IN SALT AND LEMON JUICE. YOU HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY LOVE MEDICINE AND GIVING RECTAL EXAMS TO EVEN CONSIDER APPROACHING THE HOLY ALTAR OF MEDICINE (PEACE BE UPON IT).

I get really sick of reading all of the doom and gloom posts. Yes, I get that it's a demanding profession that has its ups and downs. But why the hell are some people so negative about it ALL THE TIME? Are they really that unhappy with their situation that they have to constantly tell others about how hard and unfulfilling it is?

Yes

 

[smq123]

I get really sick of reading all of the doom and gloom posts. Yes, I get that it's a demanding profession that has its ups and downs. But why the hell are some people so negative about it ALL THE TIME? Are they really that unhappy with their situation that they have to constantly tell others about how hard and unfulfilling it is?

To be honest, I think that (at least a part of it) is the "casino effect."

You know how people say that slot machines only flash lights and make a lot of noise when someone wins? So that's all you hear....but you don't hear the dozens of other people who are playing the slots and losing.

That's kind of how SDN is. People don't get on SDN and say, "Today was a totally average day! Nothing bad happened! We weren't busy at all! I got home at a reasonable time, made dinner, and got to hang out with my friends for 2 hours!"

But people DO get on SDN to vent and say "My attending yelled at me for something that wasn't my fault, the nurse blamed me for something that was totally her fault, my favorite patient is probably going to die before the week is over, I got in to work at 4 AM, and didn't get home until 10 PM, I'm hungry, I haven't peed all day, and I HATE MEDICINE." And so that's what you hear.

But if you think people are going to get on SDN to tell you about every single one of their good-medium days, just to keep YOUR interest in medicine alive, think again! 😉 😛

 

[DocWalken]

To be honest, I think that (at least a part of it) is the "casino effect."

You know how people say that slot machines only flash lights and make a lot of noise when someone wins? So that's all you hear....but you don't hear the dozens of other people who are playing the slots and losing.

That's kind of how SDN is. People don't get on SDN and say, "Today was a totally average day! Nothing bad happened! We weren't busy at all! I got home at a reasonable time, made dinner, and got to hang out with my friends for 2 hours!"

But people DO get on SDN to vent and say "My attending yelled at me for something that wasn't my fault, the nurse blamed me for something that was totally her fault, my favorite patient is probably going to die before the week is over, I got in to work at 4 AM, and didn't get home until 10 PM, I'm hungry, I haven't peed all day, and I HATE MEDICINE." And so that's what you hear.

But if you think people are going to get on SDN to tell you about every single one of their good-medium days, just to keep YOUR interest in medicine alive, think again! 😉 😛

Sounds reasonable enough!

 

[bashir]

Thank you, Jake2. I needed to hear this. I am one of those people who loves learning about pretty much everything, and it has resulted in me questioning whether I have a "passion" for anything in particular. This mindset can be paralyzing and makes career choices extremely difficult. I have finally settled on medicine for many of the reasons you outlined. It's good to hear at least one future doctor offer advice counter to the conventional wisdom of "If you can imagine yourself doing anything else (rather than medicine), do it."