It's Amazing What Pods Are Allowed To Do At Military Hospitals

[mrfeet]

I recently had the opportunity to go with a podiatrist friend of mine to the local military hospital where he is employed as a civilian contractor. As the military has a limited number of podiatrists, they have to contract out several civilian podiatrists to fill the gap.

At the start of the day, I asked him, "What scope of practice do they allow at military hospitals? Do you fall under the state or the government?" Interestingly enough, he told me that podiatrists are given great latitude in scope of practice at military hospitals. What was truly amazing was that he and the chief of orthopedic surgery were best friends and helped each other out on cases.

In the military, orthopods and pods don't fight for number of cases as they are paid the same regardless of whether they perform one surgery in a day or ten surgeries in a day.

My friend told me that on slow days he had assisted on broken clavicles, shoulder repairs, etc. He even said that the head of general surgery had asked him to assist on an appendectomy weeks earlier! I was truly amazed.

I think that it is great that pods are given these opportunities at military hospitals despite the fact that there are still discriminations against pods in regard to academic scholarships, professional pay, etc. Actually, you're better off to work at a military hospital as a civilian than you are as a military podiatrist.

My friend works at the military hospital two days a week and maintains his private practice the other three days. He told me that he makes about $75,000 a year just doing contract work. And that money is guaranteed!

Just thought I would let you guys in on this as many of you might want to think about pursuing civilian contract work with the government one day.
👍

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[Dr_Feelgood]

Cool post thanks for the info. Hope the trolls don't come out of the wood work to ruin it.

 

[i.<3.pharmacy]

My friend works at the military hospital two days a week and maintains his private practice the other three days. He told me that he makes about $75,000 a year just doing contract work. And that money is guaranteed!

That sounds like a sweet setup!!

 

[MacGyver]

I recently had the opportunity to go with a podiatrist friend of mine to the local military hospital where he is employed as a civilian contractor. As the military has a limited number of podiatrists, they have to contract out several civilian podiatrists to fill the gap.

At the start of the day, I asked him, "What scope of practice do they allow at military hospitals? Do you fall under the state or the government?" Interestingly enough, he told me that podiatrists are given great latitude in scope of practice at military hospitals. What was truly amazing was that he and the chief of orthopedic surgery were best friends and helped each other out on cases.

In the military, orthopods and pods don't fight for number of cases as they are paid the same regardless of whether they perform one surgery in a day or ten surgeries in a day.

My friend told me that on slow days he had assisted on broken clavicles, shoulder repairs, etc. He even said that the head of general surgery had asked him to assist on an appendectomy weeks earlier! I was truly amazed.

I think that it is great that pods are given these opportunities at military hospitals despite the fact that there are still discriminations against pods in regard to academic scholarships, professional pay, etc. Actually, you're better off to work at a military hospital as a civilian than you are as a military podiatrist.

My friend works at the military hospital two days a week and maintains his private practice the other three days. He told me that he makes about $75,000 a year just doing contract work. And that money is guaranteed!

Just thought I would let you guys in on this as many of you might want to think about pursuing civilian contract work with the government one day.
👍

My thoughts:

1) Its well known that military surgeons are generally much less competent than civilians. Military surgeons caseload is 1/10th what the civies get. Do you trust a surgeon who only does 1 surgery a week? Because thats the kind of case load they get. Go see the military medicine forum for more information on this.

2) To pay someone a flat fee regardless of how many surgeries they do is an absolute joke.

3) Pods doing appys and the other stuff you listed is also a joke, a major breach of scope of practice, and should never be tolerated. That would never fly in the civilian world, cause he'd get hit with malpractice suits all over hte place. But of course in the military, docs are immune to lawsuits.

4) If I told you a story about a neurosurgeon taking all the pods surgery cases at a particular hospital, would you say "oh wow thats a cool scope of practice?" Hell no, you'd be up at arms screaming about how he's not trained to handle those procedures.

 

[efs]

My thoughts:

1) Its well known that military surgeons are generally much less competent than civilians. Military surgeons caseload is 1/10th what the civies get. Do you trust a surgeon who only does 1 surgery a week? Because thats the kind of case load they get. Go see the military medicine forum for more information on this.

2) To pay someone a flat fee regardless of how many surgeries they do is an absolute joke.

3) Pods doing appys and the other stuff you listed is also a joke, a major breach of scope of practice, and should never be tolerated. That would never fly in the civilian world, cause he'd get hit with malpractice suits all over hte place. But of course in the military, docs are immune to lawsuits.

4) If I told you a story about a neurosurgeon taking all the pods surgery cases at a particular hospital, would you say "oh wow thats a cool scope of practice?" Hell no, you'd be up at arms screaming about how he's not trained to handle those procedures.

MacGyver, you may want to rethink your thoughts because they are way off base.

I am in the miliatary and a podiatrist. I'm not sure where you are pulling your info from, but it just isn't right.

1. I worked in both military and non-military environments. I would say that the docs are on par in both. There are competent and incompetent people both in and out of the military. You're painting with a broad brush, and I doubt you can back it up. I'm typically in the OR 3 days a week. My case load is on par with other PSR-36 programs. There may be some surgeons in some assignments who have a lower than normal case load, but these are often limited assignments and not the norm. For example, the general surgeon assigned to Iraq is probably not doing many gastic bypasses. Likewise the ortho surgeons there aren't doing many ACL reconstuctions or total joints. However they will also not be spending their careers there.

2. The flat fee thing is not unusual. Docs at county hospitals usually recieve a salary. Therefore no incentive for more cases. Similar arrangements for those on salary to insurance companies. (Kaiser?) All military docs are on salary, same deal. The military also hires people on contract, which I believe is the story from the original post. None of these people are paid by the case, and it is not an unusual arrangement. Happens both in and out of the military.

3. Wrong on a couple of counts here. Military docs can have lawsuits. It's a little more complicated than I care to go into. Active duty military cannot file a lawsuit, but others can. The military provides our insurance, so if a case is filed, they deal with it. Can be bad for us, as the lawyers can decide to settle, and we really have no say. Doesn't affect us financially there, but we may be reported to NPDB. If the lawyers elect to handle it, we may not be notified and find out later that we have a report in the databank.
Part two is that we can do cases out of scope. This is true on the civilian side as well. As a resident I've done appys, knee scopes, carpal tunnel releases and many other procedures skin to skin (under supervision). Insurance companies on the civilian side (in some states) will reimburse pods for cases where they are the "assistant" even if they are out of scope. Face facts; some things like sterile technique, tissue handling, retracting, suturing are common to all surgery. If we look at ortho surgery, the hardware and OA techniques are the same as well. We are well versed in all of these things. For many surgeries, everything goes easier if you have a well-trained assistant. If I'm not busy, I'd gladly help my ortho collegues with a case if they needed assistance. Sounds like this was what the original poster was talking about. This happens in and out of the military. The key would be that the podiatrist would not be credentialled for these procedures and would not be allowed to schedule them on their own. To assist a credentialled provider is fine. It's not a breach of scope of practice, it is tolerated, it does fly in the civilian world, and is no cause for lawsuits.

4. It comes down to credentialling. If the neurosurgeon is credentialled to do a bunionectomy, he can. I don't know of any that are. I would expect they could do a neurectomy, but this is far from being all of the podiatric cases. There are certainly MD/DO's out there who can do the same procedures as a podiatrist, but there are not many that could provide the same comprehensive foot and ankle scope that a podiatrist does. If any an orthopod would come closest. Most of them feel they have other things to focus on. In any case this part all comes down to credentialling. Not credentialled, can't do it. Doesn't matter what their degree is.

I hope you'll rethink your thoughts, because they were all off base.

 

[IlizaRob]

My thoughts:

1) Its well known that military surgeons are generally much less competent than civilians. Military surgeons caseload is 1/10th what the civies get. Do you trust a surgeon who only does 1 surgery a week? Because thats the kind of case load they get. Go see the military medicine forum for more information on this.

2) To pay someone a flat fee regardless of how many surgeries they do is an absolute joke.

3) Pods doing appys and the other stuff you listed is also a joke, a major breach of scope of practice, and should never be tolerated. That would never fly in the civilian world, cause he'd get hit with malpractice suits all over hte place. But of course in the military, docs are immune to lawsuits.

4) If I told you a story about a neurosurgeon taking all the pods surgery cases at a particular hospital, would you say "oh wow thats a cool scope of practice?" Hell no, you'd be up at arms screaming about how he's not trained to handle those procedures.

Gyver,

the pod assisted in the other surgeries. He didnt do them by himself. There's a big difference. I remember hearing that pods can legally assist in most surgeries (in the civilian world). Im not sure though so dont quote me on that. If anyone has any info on that feel free to jump in.

 

[mrfeet]

My thoughts:

1) Its well known that military surgeons are generally much less competent than civilians. Military surgeons caseload is 1/10th what the civies get. Do you trust a surgeon who only does 1 surgery a week? Because thats the kind of case load they get. Go see the military medicine forum for more information on this.

2) To pay someone a flat fee regardless of how many surgeries they do is an absolute joke.

3) Pods doing appys and the other stuff you listed is also a joke, a major breach of scope of practice, and should never be tolerated. That would never fly in the civilian world, cause he'd get hit with malpractice suits all over hte place. But of course in the military, docs are immune to lawsuits.

4) If I told you a story about a neurosurgeon taking all the pods surgery cases at a particular hospital, would you say "oh wow thats a cool scope of practice?" Hell no, you'd be up at arms screaming about how he's not trained to handle those procedures.

Hey McGuyver,

Stick to building bombs out of toothpicks and bubble gum for the Phoenix Foundation and leave the medicine to us. By the way, DON'T EVER QUOTE LAME MOVIES SUCH AS "MALICE" AGAIN, IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK PATHETIC!!!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Told you the trolls would move in.

I must be psychic 😀

 

[capo]

Told you the trolls would move in.

I must be psychic 😀

psyCHO is more like it, Dr. Feelbetter 😛

 

[do-ca]

Told you the trolls would move in.

I must be psychic 😀

Uh...and by the way, in the state of California McGyver, pods are allowed to assist in any type of surgery- neuro to hernia!

What is your frickin' problem?

OOOOHHHH...he must be smart- he spends all of his time crusing the pod website looking for a fight!

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

Uh...and by the way, in the state of California McGyver, pods are allowed to assist in any type of surgery- neuro to hernia!

What is your frickin' problem?

OOOOHHHH...he must be smart- he spends all of his time crusing the pod website looking for a fight!

I don't think we need to bash McGyver too much everyone. It is obvious that McGyver has not had exposure to podiatric medicine in real life and is just spouting off.

McGyver, your comments do not match those who actually practice podiatric medicine or who have immersed themselves in its study. Your comments are not representative of any situations I have personal seen. You have not been in an operating room when podiatric surgery is being performed or you would know that operating room procedure is the same across all surgical fields. Therefore, a surgeon assisting on a surgery in another field isn't the cause for much alarm. Even PA's are able to do this and their training is significantly shorter and does not necessarily include graduate education or a residency.

You ought not to write so authoritatively on subjects you know little about. It opens the doors for people to ridicule your statements and even you, personally.

Best Regards,

AZPOD Rocks

 

[whiskers]

My thoughts:

1) Its well known that military surgeons are generally much less competent than civilians. Military surgeons caseload is 1/10th what the civies get. Do you trust a surgeon who only does 1 surgery a week? Because thats the kind of case load they get. Go see the military medicine forum for more information on this.

2) To pay someone a flat fee regardless of how many surgeries they do is an absolute joke.

3) Pods doing appys and the other stuff you listed is also a joke, a major breach of scope of practice, and should never be tolerated. That would never fly in the civilian world, cause he'd get hit with malpractice suits all over hte place. But of course in the military, docs are immune to lawsuits.

4) If I told you a story about a neurosurgeon taking all the pods surgery cases at a particular hospital, would you say "oh wow that’s a cool scope of practice?" Hell no, you'd be up at arms screaming about how he's not trained to handle those procedures.

Honestly, mac, I don't mean to ruin your gloating and all, but at the end of the day, no one knows or cares where you or I went to trade school, we didn't invent the wheel, on a physician's/ podiatrist salary, we won't be well known and we'll not, nor never will be, as rich or famous as snoop doggy dog and we'll never pull in the babes like he does either. We're average middle class guys with jobs just like 200 million other blokes working to buy over priced garbage in the form of cars houses and clutter while dressing like snoop the trend setter!

You're under the false presumption that the worker at burger king will give you an extra french fry because you are a hayseed graduate of a trade school like the rest of us.

It's good that you know and can brag that you have talent and can do this that and the other thing so well! But how many others are there that do your same job day in and day out? If you didn't do it, there would be someone else that they'd let in to take your seat. It happens all the time. Harvard is a very large school that grants lots of degrees. boston is loaded with harvard medical grads.

Also, your degree won't protect you against lawyers who will eat your "skill" for lunch, make your kids not become prostitutes, drug addicts or failures.... Or even podiatrists (gasp).

In my opinion degrees are worthless. What gives them weight are the laws that make them legitimate.

I can share your anguish with being #1! I am #1 too! Just ask me how smart I am! I am here to tell the world that I am the smartest! Really! Someone,

Please, someone! give me more attention because of my degree!

Yikes has my nail dust really inhibited a super "smart" surgeons ability to get along with other people?

That's some powerful stuff!

 

[krabmas]

Honestly, mac, I don't mean to ruin your gloating and all, but at the end of the day, no one knows or cares where you or I went to trade school, we didn't invent the wheel, on a physician's/ podiatrist salary, we won't be well known and we'll not, nor never will be, as rich or famous as snoop doggy dog and we'll never pull in the babes like he does either. We're average middle class guys with jobs just like 200 million other blokes working to buy over priced garbage in the form of cars houses and clutter while dressing like snoop the trend setter!

You're under the false presumption that the worker at burger king will give you an extra french fry because you are a hayseed graduate of a trade school like the rest of us.

It's good that you know and can brag that you have talent and can do this that and the other thing so well! But how many others are there that do your same job day in and day out? If you didn't do it, there would be someone else that they'd let in to take your seat. It happens all the time. Harvard is a very large school that grants lots of degrees. boston is loaded with harvard medical grads.

Also, your degree won't protect you against lawyers who will eat your "skill" for lunch, make your kids not become prostitutes, drug addicts or failures.... Or even podiatrists (gasp).

In my opinion degrees are worthless. What gives them weight are the laws that make them legitimate.

I can share your anguish with being #1! I am #1 too! Just ask me how smart I am! I am here to tell the world that I am the smartest! Really! Someone,

Please, someone! give me more attention because of my degree!

Yikes has my nail dust really inhibited my "smart" surgeons ability to get along with other people?

That's some powerful stuff!

really - snoop doggy dog is a trend setter? 😕 Are we stuck in 1998?

 

[whiskers]

Hey McGuyver,

Stick to building bombs out of toothpicks and bubble gum for the Phoenix Foundation and leave the medicine to us. By the way, DON'T EVER QUOTE LAME MOVIES SUCH AS "MALICE" AGAIN, IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK PATHETIC!!!

I wonder how many physicians have used that same line to stroke their own ego?

"I've got to own that movie for that one single line and I will give it highest regards because it said something I can personally want to relate to!"

With regards to snoop, some people may quote malice, I like something a little more subtle, like snoop, that hunk of a fashion/financial genius!

I bet that if he actually wanted to he could go to harvard too! Think about that for a moment!!!

And an even stranger thing would be that they'd probably have more applicants too! And no one would remember joe average medical student.... instead they'd say, "Snoop was in my class!" And they'd be proud!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Honestly, mac, I don't mean to ruin your gloating and all, but at the end of the day, no one knows or cares where you or I went to trade school, we didn't invent the wheel, on a physician's/ podiatrist salary, we won't be well known and we'll not, nor never will be, as rich or famous as snoop doggy dog and we'll never pull in the babes like he does either. We're average middle class guys with jobs just like 200 million other blokes working to buy over priced garbage in the form of cars houses and clutter while dressing like snoop the trend setter!

You're under the false presumption that the worker at burger king will give you an extra french fry because you are a hayseed graduate of a trade school like the rest of us.

It's good that you know and can brag that you have talent and can do this that and the other thing so well! But how many others are there that do your same job day in and day out? If you didn't do it, there would be someone else that they'd let in to take your seat. It happens all the time. Harvard is a very large school that grants lots of degrees. boston is loaded with harvard medical grads.

Also, your degree won't protect you against lawyers who will eat your "skill" for lunch, make your kids not become prostitutes, drug addicts or failures.... Or even podiatrists (gasp).

In my opinion degrees are worthless. What gives them weight are the laws that make them legitimate.

I can share your anguish with being #1! I am #1 too! Just ask me how smart I am! I am here to tell the world that I am the smartest! Really! Someone,

Please, someone! give me more attention because of my degree!

Yikes has my nail dust really inhibited a super "smart" surgeons ability to get along with other people?

That's some powerful stuff!

Whiskers, I impressed. 😉 You've started to defend your profession and your posts have become witty and intelligent. 😀

 

[jays2cool4u]

really - snoop doggy dog is a trend setter? 😕 Are we stuck in 1998?

for shizzle dizzle. He has a car endorsement called the Cadillac Snoop DeVille which are custom made only. He had platinum album last year called the Masterpiece. His most notable recent achivement is with the Girls Gone Wild series. He was the first rapper to do that. You must not listen to hip-hop anymore. Snoop sets trends.

Jays2cool4u 😎

 

[capo]

Whiskers, I impressed. 😉 You've started to defend your profession and your posts have become witty and intelligent. 😀

Prozac does wonders doesn't it?

 

[do-ca]

Wow, I'd heard of Whiskers, but to see him in action in just unbelievable...

Dude, You are truly a trendsetter

 

[IlizaRob]

Whiskers, I impressed. 😉 You've started to defend your profession and your posts have become witty and intelligent. 😀

Woah! As entertaining as Whiskers is, lets not get too carried away.

 

[Faraaz23]

I never knew pods assisted on other operations (i guess I don't really know much about podiatry at all). But thats pretty neat actually, and now that you explain it, it does make sense. As someone else mentioned, PA's with minimal surgical experience assist... and pods are actual surgeons!

Hey guys, just thought that I'd mention that the movie quote at the bottom of MacGuyvers post is his signature and appears on all posts, he's not gloating about himself...

 

[MarsDominus]

I understand this thread is old. On paper, surgical podiatrist are allowed to assist in any type of operation. What kind of things can podiatrists do in surgeries beyond their normal scope of practice when assisting in procedures like hip replacement?