It's offical: this year is by far the most competitive cycle for Neurology

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

Under "Preliminary Data (ERAS 2018)" - click on Residency (excel)

ERAS Statistics - ERAS - Services - AAMC

This year - Neurology saw a 13% increase in applicants (while the past 5 years have held steady with a slight trend upwards) - highest of any other specialty in the list.

This is also confirmed by my home PD that this year he has seen the largest volume of applicants (US grads) - and also of high caliber.

Anecdotally, I applied to a similar list of programs as a resident 2 years ahead of me - and my yield of interviews was FAR lower than his - despite having higher board scores and identical research and grades. Out of 40 applications, he netted 23 invites - while I could only muster 19 this year.

What is perhaps more troubling is that according to the 2016 Charting the Outcomes - there are only around 770 neurology positions - now with 740 US MD vying for them. Once you include the DOs and IMGs - the competition this year will be FIERCE.

Everyone brace yourself for the match. Instead of optimistically hoping to match our top 3 - I am lucky to get matched AT ALL ranking 16 programs.

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[guylewis]

Under "Preliminary Data (ERAS 2018)" - click on Residency (excel)

ERAS Statistics - ERAS - Services - AAMC

This year - Neurology saw a 13% increase in applicants (while the past 5 years have held steady with a slight trend upwards) - highest of any other specialty in the list.

This is also confirmed by my home PD that this year he has seen the largest volume of applicants (US grads) - and also of high caliber.

Anecdotally, I applied to a similar list of programs as a resident 2 years ahead of me - and my yield of interviews was FAR lower than his - despite having higher board scores and identical research and grades. Out of 40 applications, he netted 23 invites - while I could only muster 19 this year.

What is perhaps more troubling is that according to the 2016 Charting the Outcomes - there are only around 770 neurology positions - now with 740 US MD vying for them. Once you include the DOs and IMGs - the competition this year will be FIERCE.

Everyone brace yourself for the match. Instead of optimistically hoping to match our top 3 - I am lucky to get matched AT ALL ranking 16 programs.

solid trolling

 

[mcribbits]

From my first year in med school to now, people have always told me that "this year's match is the most competitive ever."

I refuse to torture myself with what-ifs for a month. If I try and divine where I will match based on numbers and anecdotes, I can craft any story I want to. I'm trusting how I put myself out there on paper and in person and hoping for the best.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

From my first year in med school to now, people have always told me that "this year's match is the most competitive ever."

I refuse to torture myself with what-ifs for a month. If I try and divine where I will match based on numbers and anecdotes, I can craft any story I want to. I'm trusting how I put myself out there on paper and in person and hoping for the best.

Read the posted document by ERAs - it is not hearsay anymore. 740 US allopathic seniors + 300 DOs + 2,000 IMGs vying for 770 spots.

 

[mcribbits]

Read the posted document by ERAs - it is not hearsay anymore. 740 US allopathic seniors + 300 DOs + 2,000 IMGs vying for 770 spots.

Even if the total number of applicants are up, there is nothing that can be done at this point. Trust how you put yourself out there and hope for the best. You got a lot of interviews. At least some programs thought you were amazing, and I bet they thought you were even more amazing once they met you in person. Worrying about not matching before you even know if you matched or not is not helpful to you strategically and at least for me it would not be helpful for my wellness either. Relax, friend.

 

[CarlosDanger]

According to the prelim 2018 data you linked to, the total applicants to neurology is slightly increased from last year (from 1,274 to 1,319) and almost the exact same as 2016. The "average apps per program" stat is the lowest it's been in 3 years.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

One thing I'd like to add, 5 of the 11 programs I interviewed at are adding one position to their entering class. I asked two colleagues and both told me they noticed the same thing on their interview trail. If we assume that one third of the programs are increasing their class size by one, then there will be more positions per applicant this year than there were last year.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

According to the prelim 2018 data you linked to, the total applicants to neurology is slightly increased from last year (from 1,274 to 1,319) and almost the exact same as 2016. The "average apps per program" stat is the lowest it's been in 3 years.

you are looking at FMG's data.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

Ok - lets say 40 programs this year added one spot each (very generous estimate) - we still have 740 US MD, 300 US DO, and nearly 2,000 IMGs vying for 810 spots. That is almost 4 applicants vying for each spot in Neurology. If you focus only on the US MDs - there is roughly 1.15 positions for applicant - which makes this specialty on the same tier of competitiveness as many surgical subspecialties.

 

[guylewis]

Ok - lets say 40 programs this year added one spot each (very generous estimate) - we still have 740 US MD, 300 US DO, and nearly 2,000 IMGs vying for 810 spots. That is almost 4 applicants vying for each spot in Neurology. If you focus only on the US MDs - there is roughly 1.15 positions for applicant - which makes this specialty on the same tier of competitiveness as many surgical subspecialties.

Dude, just stop. I don’t think you know what you're talking about right now. Please enjoy a propofol drip for the next month while the rest of us enjoy our golden days of med school

 

[Postictal Raiden]

https://www.aamc.org/download/362774/data/residency.pdf

take a look at the graph above. many applicants are double dipping. look at how 1600 FMG applicants applied to both neuro and IM. not everyone is genuinely interested in neurology. I came across two applicants that I met on the interview trail that prefer another specialty but doing neuro as a backup.

 

[mcribbits]

Dude, just stop. I don’t think you know what you're talking about right now. Please enjoy a propofol drip for the next month while the rest of us enjoy our golden days of med school

+1

But seriously OP and everyone else freaking out about this. Relax and enjoy the last few months of 4th year.

 

[guylewis]

I had to break my four year SDN slumber just for this thread. That's how annoyed I was

+1

But seriously OP and everyone else freaking out about this. Relax and enjoy the last few months 4th year.

 

[CarlosDanger]

you are looking at FMG's data.

I'm looking at the "US and Canadian Medical Graduates" graph under the prelim 2018 data link. Am I missing something?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I'm looking at the "US and Canadian Medical Graduates" graph under the prelim 2018 data link. Am I missing something?

What graph?

OP is referring to a table with raw data regarding applications. Once you click on the link he provided, click on "Residency" under preliminary data 2018. It's an excel file. No graphs. Only tables.

Number of US grads applying or neuro went from 665 last year to 740 this year (75 more people, or 12% increase).

 

[drcuddles]

Among the programs I interviewed at, SUNY Downstate program increased the number of spots to 11, from 7, for 2018. I'm sure there are many others who did.
Other new programs opened as well.

 

[TUGM]

"We gon' be alright." - Kendrick Lamar

 

[TardyDoc]

take a look at the graph above. many applicants are double dipping. look at how 1600 FMG applicants applied to both neuro and IM. not everyone is genuinely interested in neurology. I came across two applicants that I met on the interview trail that prefer another specialty but doing neuro as a backup.

Yep and those double dippers are easy to sniff out.

My best advice to those reading this thread and hoping to apply to neuro in upcoming cycles is the following: treat every interview as if it is your best chance to match. Act as though you are genuinely happy to be there and grateful for the opportunity to be considered. Every one of my interviews had applicants present that acted as though they were too good for the particular institution and had better options. No matter how good you look on paper if you act like a jerk no one will want to work with you.

 

[anbuitachi]

Applicants follow the money!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Applicants follow the money!

Are you hinting that there's $$$ in neuro?

 

[SheepNeurology]

It does feel like care advancements in neurology such as in areas of stroke (thrombectomy), critical care (prevalence of new fancy cool neuro ICUs), neuroimmunology (new MS drugs and seems like paraneoplastic process is on every differential for subacute AMS now) etc. are giving neurology some deserved positive attention

 

[anbuitachi]

Are you hinting that there's $$$ in neuro?

I think neuro is one of the best fields for $$ compared to how competitive it is to get in. It's kind of like EM. Applicants are noticing that and competition is therefore increasing. But unlike EM i think Neuro has a lot more potential to do well in the future. Neurologists can also get into some procedures and become like GI/Cards.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I think neuro is one of the best fields for $$ compared to how competitive it is to get in. It's kind of like EM. Applicants are noticing that and competition is therefore increasing. But unlike EM i think Neuro has a lot more potential to do well in the future. Neurologists can also get into some procedures and become like GI/Cards.

I agree with you. I wanted to hear it from you because it feels good when others acknowledge that the field I applied to is awesome.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

OK so we have some preliminary data to analyze.

Total neuro positions increased by 73 spots this year (9.3% increase!!!).

Total unfilled position increased from 15 last year to 19 this year!

So Mr Chicken Little, do you still think the sky is falling?

 

[guylewis]

OK so we have some preliminary data to analyze.

Total neuro positions increased by 73 spots this year (9.3% increase!!!).

Total unfilled position increased from 15 last year to 19 this year!

So Mr Chicken Little, do you still think the sky is falling?

Let's not be too hasty here. I truly believe no one at all will match neurology this year or ever again. It's now ten times more competitive than dermatological interventional plastic radiology. I ranked 65 places but guys, we'd be lucky if we get the honor of scrubbing hospital toilets when this is all done.

 

[Dr. Bruce Banner]

I think neuro is one of the best fields for $$ compared to how competitive it is to get in. It's kind of like EM. Applicants are noticing that and competition is therefore increasing. But unlike EM i think Neuro has a lot more potential to do well in the future. Neurologists can also get into some procedures and become like GI/Cards.

hi, what kind of procedures are you talking about?

 

[Dr. Bruce Banner]

according to medscape 2018, neurology now has the highest burnout rate (along with critical care), higher than EM!! what are people's thoughts on that? One thing I saw when I was on neuro rotation was every altered mental status gets neuro consult... with the shortage of neurologist coming up real soon and increase in the elderly population, that means neurologists will have non-stop consults on mental status change if you work inpatient... that sounds like a straight path to burnout. thoughts? will the burnout get even worse in the future with shortage and longer work hours for residents and attendings?

 

[guylewis]

hi, what kind of procedures are you talking about?

currently neuro does everything from LPs to EMGs to EEGs to to Botox injections for migraines to intravascular interventional techinques (thrombectomies, aneurysm clipping, coiling, etc.)

 

[guylewis]

according to medscape 2018, neurology now has the highest burnout rate (along with critical care), higher than EM!! what are people's thoughts on that? One thing I saw when I was on neuro rotation was every altered mental status gets neuro consult... with the shortage of neurologist coming up real soon and increase in the elderly population, that means neurologists will have non-stop consults on mental status change if you work inpatient... that sounds like a straight path to burnout. thoughts? will the burnout get even worse in the future with shortage and longer work hours for residents and attendings?

how many of the respondents were neurologists?

 

[Dr. Bruce Banner]

currently neuro does everything from LPs to EMGs to EEGs to to Botox injections for migraines to intravascular interventional techinques (thrombectomies, aneurysm clipping, coiling, etc.)

EMG, EEG, and botox for sure! but maybe it's because i'm at a big academic center... the LPs usually go to other specialties, and the interventional always go to neuroradiologist. From what I know, unless you're a neurologist with a fellowship in neuroradiologist, residency alone does not give you enough training to do any interventional procedures including thrombectomy

 

[Dr. Bruce Banner]

how many of the respondents were neurologists?

466, pretty decent number of people

 

[guylewis]

EMG, EEG, and botox for sure! but maybe it's because i'm at a big academic center... the LPs usually go to other specialties, and the interventional always go to neuroradiologist. From what I know, unless you're a neurologist with a fellowship in neuroradiologist, residency alone does not give you enough training to do any interventional procedures including thrombectomy

You become an interventional neurologist by doing four years of neurology residency followed by:

Choice number 1:
Fellowship training in vascular neurology followed by two years of neuro-interventional training.

Choice number 2:
Fellowship training in neurocritical care and diagnostic neuro-interventional procedures over two years followed by one year of training in interventional procedures.

You need to read up on this more.

Training Pathways - Society of Vascular and Interventional Neurology . <----society of vascular and interventional neurology


thrombectomies are effectively split between neurosurgery and neurology with interventional radiology getting their share as well. there will be a huge increase in demand for doctors who can do interventional techniques thanks to the DAWN and DEFUSE 3 trials opening the window of treatment effectively to 16-24 hours after onset of symptoms.

NEJM - Error

Also, are you serious in saying that LPs are not done by neurologists? that is just blatantly incorrect. LPs is part of neurology bread and butter at every place I interviewed at. Big academic centers have LP clinics specifically for the neurology residents to train, and they do hundreds of them by the time they graduate. Are you just trying to convince yourself that neurology sucks? ok it sucks! so many patients and we can't do anything for them! Woe is us

466, pretty decent number of people

what is the total number of respondents and what is the percentage of neurologists for that survey?

 

[anbuitachi]

hi, what kind of procedures are you talking about?

i went to a neurologist once, spent like a hr at his office. my bill i believe was almost 2000 and it says my insurance paid it all.. she did a EEG and EMGs in addition to the consultation during that visit. Thats a lot of money for a hr!