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Ivy League?

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htdt

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I am fortunate enough to receive invites at 8 schools, 3 public and 5 privates. I did a lot of research in undergrad, totally love it and thus my top choice is a large research-oriented public school. The thing is, I come from an Asian family that really values prestige. With my competitive DAT score (24AA), my parents/relatives actually thought that I would have a shot at some Ivy League dental schools. They keep asking me if I have heard anything from the Ivies, to the point that it makes me think I'm not good enough to get invites from those schools. I actually want to go into research and academia later in my career, so I am wondering if attending those brand name schools will prepare me better for that path? Are those schools more expensive, and if so is it worth it?
 
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Likkriue

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Ivies have the most traffic post-dec. Most people go to their state schools rather than go to ivies. They have a huge turnover trust me. You know how many times i've heard from people saying "I got into upenn/columbia and was about to attend until I got off the waitlist at "x" college". Powerhouse state schools will prepare you for an academia path just as well as any ivy. Im assuming you have a 3.6+ sgpa as well, trust me Upenn and columbia are very likely to come knocking when the attrition kicks in.
 
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Incis0r

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I am wondering if attending those brand name schools will prepare me better for that path? Are those schools more expensive, and if so is it worth it?

Paging Dr. Scumbag.......Scumbag, where are you? @Scumbag_Steve
 

8_man

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Have you looked into DDS/PhD programs?

Attending a state school will certainly be the cheaper option. But if you're interested in academia, going to an Ivy wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
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Listen, you should be proud of yourself to have gotten as many interviews as you have. Last year out of 2056 applicants to Columbia, only 150 got an acceptance notification. I'm sure plenty of those 2056 were VERY qualified and strong candidates, but this whole process is a crapshoot and ivies are known to be unique in what they want in a candidate. Keep your head up and don't think you are out of the running just yet. Even if you are, so what? Join the other 1906 of us and be happy with any acceptance. You'll be a dentist!
 
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doktorinprogres

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Two trains of thought:

1) It's not yet Dec. I think you're a lock to get acceptance(s) but you don't know where those might be yet. Might be good to step back and make yourself at peace that you might be accepted to those schools that aren't your top choice or the ivy leagues.

2) This is you and your future. I think you should only go Ivy if you have some plan for that tuition and having to ask if those schools are more expensive or not kinda indicates you don't yet have one. If they offered you a significant scholarship and it's your strongest desire to go then sure. Or if you're all set to do HPSP or NHSCSP. Otherwise I think you should follow your heart to your top choice public school assuming you get it. There's a decent number of dentists on dental town and even on here that seem to indicate your happiness and satisfaction with dentistry is not completely unrelated to how much debt you have to take on.
 

doktorinprogres

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I'm starting to think it's not worth it anymore lol, I could respond to posts like this everyday until I'm 100 years old and there will still be people on here asking the same questions when tuition there is $2.6mil per year

@Scumbag_Steve don't flake on me now bro. You're one of those people I had pegged to be a lifetime contributor who pops in every now and then to set us younguns straight.
 
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wengerout

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I have a question - assuming one doesn't want to specialize, does it not make sense to go to an ivy vs. say another equally expensive private school?


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kidsaremypassion

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But how do we do that? Other than looking at the amount of chairs etc. I don't know how we can determine that.


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Clinical requirements. Do you need to seat 10 crowns or 30 crowns to graduate? How many extractions are required? How many have to be surgical? Any Pedo requirements at all?
How does the school go about recruiting patients for students? Is there a fairly even distribution of patients for requirements, or are 4th year students scrambling during their final semester to finish up their cases?
These are questions I'd ask.
 
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wengerout

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Clinical requirements. Do you need to seat 10 crowns or 30 crowns to graduate? How many extractions are required? How many have to be surgical? Any Pedo requirements at all?
How does the school go about recruiting patients for students? Is there a fairly even distribution of patients for requirements, or are 4th year students scrambling during their final semester to finish up their cases?
These are questions I'd ask.

Okay, I will try and find this out, thank you!
 

toothdoctor123

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I am fortunate enough to receive invites at 8 schools, 3 public and 5 privates. I did a lot of research in undergrad, totally love it and thus my top choice is a large research-oriented public school. The thing is, I come from an Asian family that really values prestige. With my competitive DAT score (24AA), my parents/relatives actually thought that I would have a shot at some Ivy League dental schools. They keep asking me if I have heard anything from the Ivies, to the point that it makes me think I'm not good enough to get invites from those schools. I actually want to go into research and academia later in my career, so I am wondering if attending those brand name schools will prepare me better for that path? Are those schools more expensive, and if so is it worth it?

Ivy League prestige doesn't really exist within dentistry. But yes, Harvard and Columbia would give you among the best educations for research and academia. Some of the most exciting research in healthcare going on right now is at the overlap of dentistry and medicine, so a school that gives you a medical education would serve you well. Penn is a little different because it is clinically oriented, functions independently from the med school, and is bigger. Lots of opportunities are there too, but you have to take the extra initiative to seize them. The same could be said of many state schools, though, including the one you're interested in...it's more about your drive to achieve your personal goals than whatever is being handed to you anyway.

If you were going to a professional school to please your prestige-focused family, then why aren't you applying to medical schools? I think that by choosing dentistry, you're already choosing personal success and fulfillment over outdated ideas of prestige. Just my opinion.
 
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wengerout

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Ivy League prestige doesn't really exist within dentistry. But yes, Harvard and Columbia would give you among the best educations for research and academia. Some of the most exciting research in healthcare going on right now is at the overlap of dentistry and medicine, so a school that gives you a medical education would serve you well. Penn is a little different because it is clinically oriented, functions independently from the med school, and is bigger. Lots of opportunities are there too, but you have to take the extra initiative to seize them. The same could be said of many state schools, though, including the one you're interested in...it's more about your drive to achieve your personal goals than whatever is being handed to you anyway.

If you were going to a professional school to please your prestige-focused family, then why aren't you applying to medical schools? I think that by choosing dentistry, you're already choosing personal success and fulfillment over outdated ideas of prestige. Just my opinion.

How are the clinical at Harvard and Columbia though? Good enough so that if down the line we decided we just wanted to be a GP we could do so without any problems?


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x0jessmariex3

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How are the clinical at Harvard and Columbia though? Good enough so that if down the line we decided we just wanted to be a GP we could do so without any problems?


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I heard from a D4 in Columbia its mainly a school if your looking to specialize, but I mean I guess you could go into GD if you really wanted to. He did say they aren't as clinically focused as other schools.
 
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wengerout

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I heard from a D4 in Columbia its mainly a school if your looking to specialize, but I mean I guess you could go into GD if you really wanted to. He did say they aren't as clinically focused as other schools.

Hmm that's what I thought, just tough that you have to know if you want to before you have even picked up a drill!


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toothdoctor123

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How are the clinical at Harvard and Columbia though? Good enough so that if down the line we decided we just wanted to be a GP we could do so without any problems?

The clinical educations at both schools are good enough, even though they're not the best for everyone. I can't really speak for Harvard, but I think Columbia's reputation for a poor clinical education is outdated; it is actually pretty good. Somewhere around half of Columbia grads become GPs, and the reason for high PG enrollment among Columbia grads is that many want a license in NY state, which is the only state that requires a GPR/AEGD.

Columbia gives you the flexibility to focus on the non-clinical aspects of your education if you're interested in certain career paths, but students who decide on GP don't have to put the extra time in to honor their medical courses, do research, etc. and instead can take it upon themselves to do extra work in the (pre)clinic.

Furthermore, from what many dentists have told me, no dental school fully prepares you for the private practice setting. You refine your skills, learn shortcuts, increase your speed/productivity, learn the business stuff, etc., AFTER you graduate. Learning by doing. How many currently practicing dentists learned implantology in dental school? None...they managed to learn it through CE and informal training. Generally speaking, as long as you solidified a basic set of skills in dental school, you can continue to learn new procedures, integrate new technology, and evolve your practice throughout your career. Nothing is holding you back if you're smart and driven.
 
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wengerout

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The clinical educations at both schools are good enough, even though they're not the best for everyone. I can't really speak for Harvard, but I think Columbia's reputation for a poor clinical education is outdated; it is actually pretty good. Somewhere around half of Columbia grads become GPs, and the reason for high PG enrollment among Columbia grads is that many want a license in NY state, which is the only state that requires a GPR/AEGD.

Columbia gives you the flexibility to focus on the non-clinical aspects of your education if you're interested in certain career paths, but students who decide on GP don't have to put the extra time in to honor their medical courses, do research, etc. and instead can take it upon themselves to do extra work in the (pre)clinic.

Furthermore, from what many dentists have told me, no dental school fully prepares you for the private practice setting. You refine your skills, learn shortcuts, increase your speed/productivity, learn the business stuff, etc., AFTER you graduate. Learning by doing. How many currently practicing dentists learned implantology in dental school? None...they managed to learn it through CE and informal training. Generally speaking, as long as you solidified a basic set of skills in dental school, you can continue to learn new procedures, integrate new technology, and evolve your practice throughout your career. Nothing is holding you back if you're smart and driven.

Perfect! Awesome to know!! Also, what schools are the best clinically anyway?


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htdt

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If you were going to a professional school to please your prestige-focused family, then why aren't you applying to medical schools? I think that by choosing dentistry, you're already choosing personal success and fulfillment over outdated ideas of prestige. Just my opinion.
By NO means I apply to d-schools ONLY for prestige. But HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, even if the only thing I seek is prestige, then your advice is absolutely HORRIBLE. Physicians deal with life and death, so I really hope that they are in for reasons other than prestige. You can't quite say the same about dentistry. Trust me, I do know dentists who are in just for the money (and maybe prestige), and they are perfectly happy with their career. ;)
 
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By NO means I apply to d-schools ONLY for prestige. But HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, even if the only thing I seek is prestige, then your advice is absolutely HORRIBLE. Physicians deal with life and death, so I really hope that they are in for reasons other than prestige. You can't quite say the same about dentistry. Trust me, I do know dentists who are in just for the money (and maybe prestige), and they are perfectly happy with their career. ;)
Personally, I'm in for both (vast majority I talk to are the same)
 
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I don't care what people say about schools in terms of cost or need to specialize, but could you imagine how awesome it would be to study in this building? I am honestly a sucker for good architecture. I remember seeing Tufts being housed in a highrise in the middle of the city and I found myself paying for the application fee 20 minutes later
 
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toothdoctor123

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By NO means I apply to d-schools ONLY for prestige. But HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, even if the only thing I seek is prestige, then your advice is absolutely HORRIBLE. Physicians deal with life and death, so I really hope that they are in for reasons other than prestige. You can't quite say the same about dentistry. Trust me, I do know dentists who are in just for the money (and maybe prestige), and they are perfectly happy with their career. ;)

I wasn't advising you to apply to med school...that was a rhetorical question. I'm trying to help you realize that you've already made a choice to pursue your own definition of success (which is real) rather than your family's (which is an illusion).

I'm presuming that based on your profile, you're also probably qualified to go to medical school, and everyone knows that studying to be a "doctor" (physician) who saves lives is more prestigious in the eyes of the public than being a dentist, even though dentistry is also highly honorable profession. By choosing dentistry, you've chosen the best profession over the most prestigious one. My advice is that you should continue on this path by ignoring institutional prestige altogether and following your personal values. You may end up at an Ivy League school anyway, but go there because it's the education you want, not the prestige.

And, by the way, just because you wisely believe that med students shouldn't be motivated only by prestige doesn't mean that such people don't exist. I know a few people like that...they are miserable and they will make horrible physicians.
 
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