Job search etiquette

[mumixam]

Navigating the job search for the first time as a new grad

What's the etiquette regarding number of interviews/contracts/recruiters to pursue?

Should I get multiple contracts in hand and compare them?
Talk to multiple recruiters at the same time?

At the moment I have 3 job site interviews lined up for the next few weeks.
Is this a no-no? I feel dirty.

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[CanadianMaple05]

I am also in the same boat and would appreciate some insight!

 

[bobow98]

Ask yourself how many people they are interviewing for each spot. You will feel so clean you won't need to shower for a year.

 

[DrMetal]

Navigating the job search for the first time as a new grad

What's the etiquette regarding number of interviews/contracts/recruiters to pursue?

Should I get multiple contracts in hand and compare them?
Talk to multiple recruiters at the same time?

At the moment I have 3 job site interviews lined up for the next few weeks.
Is this a no-no? I feel dirty.

There's no such thing as etiquette (you're not applying to med school or training programs any more, you're an attending, do WTF you want, within reason). Apply to whatever you want, go to as many interviews as you want.

I personally don't like recruiters. I'd rather learn and go at it on my own . . .but I'm sure there exists scenarios where they might be helpful.

 

[mszzeta]

Should I get multiple contracts in hand and compare them? Most people would do it. But the timeline may not always work.
Talk to multiple recruiters at the same time? I contacted a couple but mainly talked to one. There were a few unprofessional recruiters......

 

[IMGASMD]

Should I get multiple contracts in hand and compare them? Most people would do it. But the timeline may not always work.
Talk to multiple recruiters at the same time? I contacted a couple but mainly talked to one. There were a few unprofessional recruiters......

They’re car salesman. They don’t know anything about your job, TBH.

I will hold on to any acceptance as long as possible. Any job worth pursuing will let you compare to another. If they tell you that you need to give them a decision within a week or two, that’s a big flag.

If you really really want a location or a particular hospital, call them directly should get you a little closer.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You should feel free to apply to, and interview at, as many positions as you want. There rarely is a reason to interview at 10-15 programs like you might for residency, as you're likely to get offers from most of the places you interview. 3 is a reasonable number, although there is nothing wrong with 10. I would try to cluster the interviews into a reasonable window, so that you'll have your offers in a workable timeframe.

I agree that short windows to make decisions are often bad news. But, if a site has interviewed 3 people for a spot and is happy with all three, if you don't answer in their window they may just offer to the next person. So you can lose a spot that way. Much depends on whom needs whom more.

Recruiters are, in general, bad news. Once you engage one, if they are involved with an offer they get paid. Anything they get paid is something you can't get as part of your negotiations. There are some exceptions -- internal recruiters (i.e. hired by a site to fill their own spots) are totally fine. And if you're looking for a PCP type position in a private practice, those can be very difficult to find if you're not from the area -- in that case a LOCAL recruiter may be helpful. If they are not in the same zip code, then much less so. My experience has been that recruiters do not tend to get you "a better deal".

 

[CanadianMaple05]

Hi guys, what are some good questions to ask during an interview. I spoke to the hospital recruiter and she set up an informal interview with one of the doctors at the hospital. Pretty sure he’s one of the higher ups involved in hiring new physicians and he is not in my specialty. What are some good questions to ask?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

No such thing as etiquette. This is all money. Do whatever you want and maximize your income

 

[tantacles]

Hi guys, what are some good questions to ask during an interview. I spoke to the hospital recruiter and she set up an informal interview with one of the doctors at the hospital. Pretty sure he’s one of the higher ups involved in hiring new physicians and he is not in my specialty. What are some good questions to ask?

Keep it simple in an interview where someone is evaluating you. More pointed questions can come when you have job in hand.

“What does the day to day of the practice look like?”

“What would you change about hospital X If you were the president?”

“how is work life balance?”

 

[CanadianMaple05]

Keep it simple in an interview where someone is evaluating you. More pointed questions can come when you have job in hand.

“What does the day to day of the practice look like?”

“What would you change about hospital X If you were the president?”

“how is work life balance?”

I could understand this viewpoint if I was applying for residency or fellowship training where it’s up to the interviewer if they want to select me or not. I think at this point, it’s more both people evaluating if this would be a good fit. So I’m equally invested in asking all the right questions. So far, I’ve noticed that most places are in need of gastroenterologists and trying to convince me to come and work there.

 

[IMGASMD]

Keep it simple in an interview where someone is evaluating you. More pointed questions can come when you have job in hand.

“What does the day to day of the practice look like?”

“What would you change about hospital X If you were the president?”

“how is work life balance?”

Don’t try with this approach. Unless it’s a location you absolutely needs to be.

I usually ask if I can speak to someone who is the newest member of the group. Or if they can provide you with a few numbers?

I want to know how the call is divided.
How’s patient divided.
If it’s a partnership, how long? What is the increase in pay?

I am in anesthesia now, just learned that the OR nurses are getting 140/hr to do travel nursing…..

 

[CanadianMaple05]

Don’t try with this approach. Unless it’s a location you absolutely needs to be.

I usually ask if I can speak to someone who is the newest member of the group. Or if they can provide you with a few numbers?

I want to know how the call is divided.
How’s patient divided.
If it’s a partnership, how long? What is the increase in pay?

I am in anesthesia now, just learned that the OR nurses are getting 140/hr to do travel nursing…..

Yeah, definitely not a location I absolutely need to be in. I’m open to multiple different locations at this point. Asking to speak to the newest member is a good idea, thanks!

 

[IMGASMD]

Yeah, definitely not a location I absolutely need to be in. I’m open to multiple different locations at this point. Asking to speak to the newest member is a good idea, thanks!

So if then let you, good news. You get to ask some questions but tactically. They’re new, they can/will offer you better than some of the canned answers.

I’ve always asked to see the “books”. Some groups are more transparent than others.

One thing I learned a while ago, people care more about “fairness” than pay. That include, work/vacation, opportunities to earn extra, basically any “rules” that are governing the group. If there are too many exceptions, then you should/want to know them before you join.

No such thing as etiquette. This is all money. Do whatever you want and maximize your income

I am going to echo this with this…
You’re not expected to do “this” for free anymore. This is what you’ve been training for. Get a good job that can support your family and pay off that loan. The worst thing they will tell you is No; but you gotta ask the questions. They are not mind readers, if you don’t let them know what will get you there, then they cannot offer it.

 

[Gastrapathy]

The most important thing, IMO, is not to make decisions that tie yourself to your first job decision. Give yourself time to see if its right for you before you go off and buy a house, invest in the building, etc.

 

[Bendamustine]

How many days in a year are you guys planning to work? I guess y''ll are fresh out of residency.

 

[HeisenbergIsTheGOAT]

Same boat - will be looking for hospitalist jobs and I've talked to seniors who provided some insight. He was flexible location-wise and was looking for a gig with the best pay and warm weather. Ended up getting the combo he wanted after sorting through and talking to many of the recruiters. He advised talking to multiple people to get the gist of things and never settle for less $.

 

[CleverAlias]

To be perfectly frank my biggest priority is to find a job with the highest possible compensation. Everything else is secondary. With that being the case, how direct can I be about my for lack of a better word "greed" when talking to recruiters? It's frustratingly uncommon to find job ads with salaries quoted up front, and it would be a giant waste of time to spend 30 minutes talking about an opportunity only to find out at the very end they are offering much less than my target. Can I just at the outset say yo, before we get any further, I'm looking for at least X and if you're not able to offer X let's just save both of us some time?

 

[DrMetal]

To be perfectly frank my biggest priority is to find a job with the highest possible compensation. Everything else is secondary. With that being the case, how direct can I be about my for lack of a better word "greed" when talking to recruiters? It's frustratingly uncommon to find job ads with salaries quoted up front, and it would be a giant waste of time to spend 30 minutes talking about an opportunity only to find out at the very end they are offering much less than my target. Can I just at the outset say yo, before we get any further, I'm looking for at least X and if you're not able to offer X let's just save both of us some time?

I wouldn't mention it so explicitly, it's tacky.

The problem is, you're never really going to know what they're offering, until you see an actual offer/contract. And that usually doesn't come until after an interview (done either in person, or Zoom, or over the phone). So you're just going to have to bite that bullet and go through the interview process, to see what the final offer looks like. If you can, do your interviews remotely (phone, zoom) to minimize travel.

It's not rocket science. If you want max compensation, target the parts of the country that nobody wants to live in. You can probably get close to $300K base. Offer to do extra shifts, extra call, nights, swings etc, and you can probably make $400 to $500K.

 

[CleverAlias]

I wouldn't mention it so explicitly, it's tacky.

The problem is, you're never really going to know what they're offering, until you see an actual offer/contract. And that usually doesn't come until after an interview (done either in person, or Zoom, or over the phone). So you're just going to have to bite that bullet and go through the interview process, to see what the final offer looks like. If you can, do your interviews remotely (phone, zoom) to minimize travel.

It's not rocket science. If you want max compensation, target the parts of the country that nobody wants to live in. You can probably get close to $300K base. Offer to do extra shifts, extra call, nights, swings etc, and you can probably make $400 to $500K.

The problem is I want to find a job where I can hit 400k working 26 weeks. I know such a gig is maybe 1 in a 100, but I'm willing to work anywhere it may be found and so the major hurdle is literally just playing the numbers game and inquiring into a ton of jobs until I come across it. It would just seem like a massive waste of time to go through the full interview process every time knowing that the vast majority of offers will be nowhere close to what I am looking for. Seems like the lesser of two evils to just state outright what I am looking for and save everyone the time and effort.

 

[DrMetal]

The problem is I want to find a job where I can hit 400k working 26 weeks.

That's not realistic. 26 weeks = Full time (7 on, 7 off), base salary for which is usually $250-$300K. To get to $400K, you'd have to do extra shifts, probably working closer to 35-40 weeks/year (maybe less if you take nights and weekends).

Seems like the lesser of two evils to just state outright what I am looking for and save everyone the time and effort.

You can certainly try, go nuts.

 

[CleverAlias]

That's not realistic. 26 weeks = Full time (7 on, 7 off), base salary for which is usually $250-$300K. To get to $400K, you'd have to do extra shifts, probably working closer to 35-40 weeks/year (maybe less if you take nights and weekends).



You can certainly try, go nuts.

I mean, those jobs are definitely out there. They are outliers, but they exist. There was one posted in the "hospitalist jobs" thread on this very forum a couple months ago. Here is another example which seems to have been snapped up already:

https://jobs.mystateline.com/jobs/7-7-or-14-14-hospitalist-st.-louis-area-380k-physician-hannibal-missouri/760076695-2/

The problem is that it's probably as rare for a job to post the salary up front as it is for a job to pay 400k for 26 weeks lol. It would be a completely asinine situation for my eventual salary to be limited by the fact I can hardly do more than 10 full interviews and thus have to settle for the highest salary in a random sampling of 10 jobs lol.

 

[Splenda88]

The problem is I want to find a job where I can hit 400k working 26 weeks. I know such a gig is maybe 1 in a 100, but I'm willing to work anywhere it may be found and so the major hurdle is literally just playing the numbers game and inquiring into a ton of jobs until I come across it. It would just seem like a massive waste of time to go through the full interview process every time knowing that the vast majority of offers will be nowhere close to what I am looking for. Seems like the lesser of two evils to just state outright what I am looking for and save everyone the time and effort.

I have not seen 400k for day shifts, but I have seen ~350k.

 

[SOCalXtine]

When do you start looking for jobs 3rd year of residency fall? also Is it best to cold call hospitals or use a recruiter?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Navigating the job search for the first time as a new grad

What's the etiquette regarding number of interviews/contracts/recruiters to pursue?

Should I get multiple contracts in hand and compare them?
Talk to multiple recruiters at the same time?

At the moment I have 3 job site interviews lined up for the next few weeks.
Is this a no-no? I feel dirty.

As others have pointed out, this is nothing like the matches you have been in previously.

Go on as many interviews as you want/need.

Yes, you can take competing offers and leverage them to try to negotiate a better deal from whichever institution you like.

Put simply, you’ll find that many medical recruiters…suck. Unprofessional, dishonest, greedy…all words that can be used to describe them. I agree with the aforementioned comparison to used car salesmen.

As far as compensation information, my advice is this: ask for it as early as possible in the process. What you’ll find is that institutions whose compensation is very good tend to boast about it in their ads - If you’re gonna get paid well, you’ll know it right off the bat. The institutions that play games and don’t disclose compensation until the interview (or later) tend to have something to hide, and I’ve had some of them deliver insultingly low offers after what seemed like a good interview. If they won’t at least give you a potential salary range before you interview, I wouldn’t go on the interview.

 

[Ubba]

The problem is I want to find a job where I can hit 400k working 26 weeks. I know such a gig is maybe 1 in a 100, but I'm willing to work anywhere it may be found and so the major hurdle is literally just playing the numbers game and inquiring into a ton of jobs until I come across it. It would just seem like a massive waste of time to go through the full interview process every time knowing that the vast majority of offers will be nowhere close to what I am looking for. Seems like the lesser of two evils to just state outright what I am looking for and save everyone the time and effort.

I assume you're completely comfortable with lines, intubations, etc., because the only way you're going to approach that number is by being a bit of a cowboy in an open-ICU place.

 

[Bendamustine]

When do you start looking for jobs 3rd year of residency fall? also Is it best to cold call hospitals or use a recruiter?

DONT use a recruiter they just try to sell unworthy positions.
The best would be to search websites like practicelink.
If you specifically have a location preference, you can directly call them up. Remember you're a doctor, they need you, so they almost always reply.