Job search

[Pes anserine]

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So i have just really recently started searching for a job. Obviously I don't graduate until next year and many employers in my desired areas want someone now. I've inquired about 5+ jobs (most of these are based on emails I've received from recruiters in the past few months) and most jobs either have filled, have already interviewed, or they are in negotiations.

It's frustrating. Some recruiters where jobs are still open tell me they will call me or tell me more about the jobs and I don't hear back. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a better way to approach the job hunt? I'm an american grad, from a University residency program, have numerous unrestricted licenses, etc.

For example, I got an email from a recruiter. I answered them, talked to them, then they told me they get me in touch with their colleague who would be better able to help me. They forward my CV. I don't hear back for a few days so I contact the recruiter and they tell me they will call me. Still waiting.

I feel like I'm not going to get anything decent!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

So i have just really recently started searching for a job. Obviously I don't graduate until next year and many employers in my desired areas want someone now. I've inquired about 5+ jobs (most of these are based on emails I've received from recruiters in the past few months) and most jobs either have filled, have already interviewed, or they are in negotiations.

It's frustrating. Some recruiters where jobs are still open tell me they will call me or tell me more about the jobs and I don't hear back. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a better way to approach the job hunt? I'm an american grad, from a University residency program, have numerous unrestricted licenses, etc.

For example, I got an email from a recruiter. I answered them, talked to them, then they told me they get me in touch with their colleague who would be better able to help me. They forward my CV. I don't hear back for a few days so I contact the recruiter and they tell me they will call me. Still waiting.

I feel like I'm not going to get anything decent!

Have you tried cold calling places?

 

[Pes anserine]

Have you tried cold calling places?

No. Many of the positions don't specify which hospital or anything. But that really does not address the issue. I don't understand the issue - there are positions that have to be filled, I inquire, recruiters tell me they'll get back to me, etc. and crickets. I even talked to some recruiters at our annual conference, I expressed interest, they took my info, I contact them on the email listed on the job and crickets. Some of these jobs have been open for a long time too. I guess I don't understand. Is this the normal process?
I would assume you talk to a recruiter, express interest, send CV, perhaps interview, and offer is either made or not and negotiations/credentialing starts.

Am I missing something?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

No. Many of the positions don't specify which hospital or anything. But that really does not address the issue. I don't understand the issue - there are positions that have to be filled, I inquire, recruiters tell me they'll get back to me, etc. and crickets. I even talked to some recruiters at our annual conference, I expressed interest, they took my info, I contact them on the email listed on the job and crickets. Some of these jobs have been open for a long time too. I guess I don't understand. Is this the normal process?
I would assume you talk to a recruiter, express interest, send CV, perhaps interview, and offer is either made or not and negotiations/credentialing starts.

Am I missing something?

Recruiters can be very flaky. Look for hospitals or practices in the area you are interested and try cold calling. Look for those unlisted jobs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There are two types of recruiters. There are in house recruiters -- these are people who work for a (usually) large hospital system, and their job is to hire people into that system. They are salaried by the hospital. They are totally reasonable, should be very professional, and will usually answer your questions promptly. If they have no positions for which you fit, they will tell you that.

Then, there are freelance recruiters. These are people who simply try to find people jobs. They are essentially unlicensed, and there are no rules of conduct. My experience with these people, both myself and with my residents, has been catastrophically poor. They advertise jobs that don't exist, because they want to collect your resume in the hopes that they find a job in the future you might be interested in. They will stretch the truth greatly about positions to make them seem perfect for you, and then when you see them they will not meet your needs, but they will try to pressure you to take them anyway. Usually, they send you to a single job (or maybe two) and then tell you that there isn't anything else, and that if you don't take one soon that they will be gone, and that usually someone else is going to be looking at the job shortly, etc. If you make the mistake of giving them your cell phone number, you will never get rid of them. They get paid by the practice if you take the job they referred you to -- and for certain what ever they get paid comes out of whatever you would have gotten paid had you found the job yourself.

 

[Pes anserine]

There are two types of recruiters. There are in house recruiters -- these are people who work for a (usually) large hospital system, and their job is to hire people into that system. They are salaried by the hospital. They are totally reasonable, should be very professional, and will usually answer your questions promptly. If they have no positions for which you fit, they will tell you that.

Then, there are freelance recruiters. These are people who simply try to find people jobs. They are essentially unlicensed, and there are no rules of conduct. My experience with these people, both myself and with my residents, has been catastrophically poor. They advertise jobs that don't exist, because they want to collect your resume in the hopes that they find a job in the future you might be interested in. They will stretch the truth greatly about positions to make them seem perfect for you, and then when you see them they will not meet your needs, but they will try to pressure you to take them anyway. Usually, they send you to a single job (or maybe two) and then tell you that there isn't anything else, and that if you don't take one soon that they will be gone, and that usually someone else is going to be looking at the job shortly, etc. If you make the mistake of giving them your cell phone number, you will never get rid of them. They get paid by the practice if you take the job they referred you to -- and for certain what ever they get paid comes out of whatever you would have gotten paid had you found the job yourself.

I can see this. I have noticed this - but for example there are 2 hospital jobs that are both in an area that I like and would likely take. I think both are hospital based recruiters beacuse they are listed on the hospital's website for a bunch of jobs. I email one, they ask me for a CV. I did delay by a bit sure but I send them my CV and I hear nothing. The other hospital recruiter I evenmet at our national conference and talked to her (I was waiting for my license so I did not apply before). I emailed her after I got home expressing interest and still nothing.
I have had a few recruiters who I find that are reasonably reliable and respond promptly, etc. However as I was mentioning there are some jobs that don't list the hospital or any other info other than a recruiter.

I find this so frustrating. I guess I'll need to start calling some of these places. What's the typical time frame if an offer is made? few days? weeks? This feel so foreign!

 

[Apollyon]

What is your specialty? If you're neurosurg or ENT, you've got pull. If you're peds or IM or FM, that's different. Some places are REALLY hurting for primary care. If you have something really competitive, they might put up a little fight over you.

The main thing to remember, though, is that you are in the driver's seat.

 

[anonperson]

So i have just really recently started searching for a job. Obviously I don't graduate until next year and many employers in my desired areas want someone now. I've inquired about 5+ jobs (most of these are based on emails I've received from recruiters in the past few months) and most jobs either have filled, have already interviewed, or they are in negotiations.

It's frustrating. Some recruiters where jobs are still open tell me they will call me or tell me more about the jobs and I don't hear back. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a better way to approach the job hunt? I'm an american grad, from a University residency program, have numerous unrestricted licenses, etc.

For example, I got an email from a recruiter. I answered them, talked to them, then they told me they get me in touch with their colleague who would be better able to help me. They forward my CV. I don't hear back for a few days so I contact the recruiter and they tell me they will call me. Still waiting.

I feel like I'm not going to get anything decent!

Recently entered the job market after 4 years of residency and 3 years of fellowship. Had a somewhere similar experience as you.

Started searching for a job during my second year of fellowship. This was too early. Jobs that were listed were looking for someone sooner rather than later.

Timing can play a major role for many jobs unfortunately. You also can't discount that certain jobs are posted as a formality and may have an internal candidate. I was trying to get a job with a specific health system but they kept saying they wanted someone with a few years experience. Lo and behold, they hired a guy I know who just finished fellowship the same time I did. Obviously he had better connections than i did.

Plenty of jobs are not posted and groups will only hire the right person. Cold calling can be helpful and having some attendings make a call can be important.

At the end of the day, most physicians do not stay with their first job for more than 2 years. Your first job will not be perfect and it will be a learning process on two fonts : you will polish your skills as an attending and you will see what parts of the job negotiation you need to do better on (ie more time off, less travel sites)

 

[Pes anserine]

What is your specialty? If you're neurosurg or ENT, you've got pull. If you're peds or IM or FM, that's different. Some places are REALLY hurting for primary care. If you have something really competitive, they might put up a little fight over you.

The main thing to remember, though, is that you are in the driver's seat.

I’m PMR. All of the previous residents found jobs. I feel lame.

 

[kchan99]

At my program, I only know of one fellow who found a private practice position through a recruiter. The other fellows, myself included, found positions through word of mouth or "cold calling."

 

[Pes anserine]

Unfortunately for larger residency programs it becomes difficult to get "word of mouth" jobs especially if you are going to different states from where your residency is in. When you say cold calling, do you mean just calling hospitals and saying hi - are you hiring type of thing?

At my program, I only know of one fellow who found a private practice position through a recruiter. The other fellows, myself included, found positions through word of mouth or "cold calling."

At my program, I only know of one fellow who found a private practice position through a recruiter. The other fellows, myself included, found positions through word of mouth or "cold calling."

 

[kchan99]

When you say cold calling, do you mean just calling hospitals and saying hi - are you hiring type of thing?

Almost everyone in my program has gone into academics. We wrote to subspecialty division heads to ask about jobs.

Unfortunately for larger residency programs it becomes difficult to get "word of mouth" jobs especially if you are going to different states from where your residency is in.

Many of our fellows were looking for broad geographic areas or multiple areas. If a fellow turns down a position, then another fellow looking for a job several months later may look into that position. We also ask research collaborators if their group is hiring.
I think it might be easier to look for jobs coming from larger programs because alumni may spread the word.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I can see this. I have noticed this - but for example there are 2 hospital jobs that are both in an area that I like and would likely take. I think both are hospital based recruiters beacuse they are listed on the hospital's website for a bunch of jobs. I email one, they ask me for a CV. I did delay by a bit sure but I send them my CV and I hear nothing. The other hospital recruiter I evenmet at our national conference and talked to her (I was waiting for my license so I did not apply before). I emailed her after I got home expressing interest and still nothing.
I have had a few recruiters who I find that are reasonably reliable and respond promptly, etc. However as I was mentioning there are some jobs that don't list the hospital or any other info other than a recruiter.

I find this so frustrating. I guess I'll need to start calling some of these places. What's the typical time frame if an offer is made? few days? weeks? This feel so foreign!

Call hospital recruiters, they often aren't great about emails.

 

[Pes anserine]

Call hospital recruiters, they often aren't great about emails.

I guess. I've had really bad luck with recruiters. Some are really not very good. It's kind of odd. Today one of them asks me to describe my residency program and my "typical day" - I was like what?

 

[gutonc]

I guess. I've had really bad luck with recruiters. Some are really not very good. It's kind of odd. Today one of them asks me to describe my residency program and my "typical day" - I was like what?

Ummm...that's a pretty typical question. Perhaps the issue isn't the recruiters.

 

[Pes anserine]

Ummm...that's a pretty typical question. Perhaps the issue isn't the recruiters.

Really? How so? Are you saying that recruiters don't have any idea as to what different specialties do? to date, I have never been asked that.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Ummm...that's a pretty typical question. Perhaps the issue isn't the recruiters.

Really? I've never been asked that.

 

[PTPoeny]

Really? How so? Are you saying that recruiters don't have any idea as to what different specialties do? to date, I have never been asked that.

No, I'm quite sure some of them have no idea. One somehow got my cellphone number so I talked to them for a few minutes and they asked me if i was looking for an inpatient or outpatient icu job... I thanked them for their time and said I wasn't looking for a job yet and didn't want to talk to them again.

 

[Pes anserine]

Really? I've never been asked that.

Me either.

 

[Pes anserine]

No, I'm quite sure some of them have no idea. One somehow got my cellphone number so I talked to them for a few minutes and they asked me if i was looking for an inpatient or outpatient icu job... I thanked them for their time and said I wasn't looking for a job yet and didn't want to talk to them again.

One recruiter kept insisting I was a peda rehab pwrson. I explained I was not. Then he’s like oh you must have done a pedi residency then. I said no I do strictly adult. Then he’s like oh I don’t handle adults.

 

[wholeheartedly]

If you're on a job search page and it doesn't list the hospital where the job is located, the job posting was made by a recruiting website. They make it so you have to go through them to find out about the job. They do this all the time in my allied health field and it's incredibly annoying.

But it's often not that hard to do a little detective work to figure out which hospital it is and contact them directly. Usually you have enough info to narrow it down to a handful of hospitals and then can just search for the listing on the hospitals job site until you find the right one. You get a better description that way anyway.

I agree that cold calling can work well for docs sometimes too. For example I'm in a smaller community with a small hospital w/clinic and then another organization has a local clinic too. They are currently actively seeking/have jobs posted for EM docs and an ENT and psych. But either of those places would fall all over themselves if a doc in any specialty wanted to come work there. So if you have an interest in working somewhere, it doesn't hurt to show it.

 

[agranulocytosis]

What about physically showing up to a given hospital/practice and expressing interest? Say you're traveling the area to get a feel of the city or town and scope out the hospitals, is that too forward?

 

[geripalgal]

What about physically showing up to a given hospital/practice and expressing interest? Say you're traveling the area to get a feel of the city or town and scope out the hospitals, is that too forward?

Extremly forward. Dont do it. Call in advance and schedule a meeting with a hospital recruiter.

 

[hamstergang]

What about physically showing up to a given hospital/practice and expressing interest?

Who would you plan to talk to with zero notice and no apppintment that could actually help you?

 

[HomeSkool]

Recruiters can be very flaky. Look for hospitals or practices in the area you are interested and try cold calling. Look for those unlisted jobs.

Agreed. When I was looking for a job, I started by making a list of employers that met certain criteria (for me, private academic centers on a specific part of the US). Then I could called those places, sent in my CV, interviewed, and landed an outstanding job. Forget about the headhunters and grab the bull by the horns, my friend!

What about physically showing up to a given hospital/practice and expressing interest? Say you're traveling the area to get a feel of the city or town and scope out the hospitals, is that too forward?

WAY too forward. You're going to show up on the middle of their busy day and disrupt their schedule, which will likely irritate them more than anything else. Putting them on the spot and making them uncomfortable is a bad way to make a first impression. Unless your name is Cushing or Halsted, it won't be well received.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using SDN mobile

 

[Gfliptastic]

Hi,

I'm in the same boat. Last year of residency, in the job hunt, but at the same time I'm basically done w/ it. And found a great job opportunity. I'm sure IM and PMR is different, but I don't think looking for a job is that different.

What I did was got 2 head hunters, as a result of a job fair (CareerMD), and then also used my own hustle. Head hunters are generally great if you aren't restricted to area because they have access to a lot of different states. It is better than you really going too much in (to be worth your time). However, I used my own hustle, and probably secured as many interviews as the recruiters by contacting the system hospital recruiter. For real example, I contacted the recruiter for WVP (in Salem, OR) on my own. I am currently sitting on their job offer.

And as was mentioned, it's a good idea to check the hospital's career website yourself. If the job is available on their website, you can (and should) apply via that way. Then, you can also double check w/ your head-hunter. Like the opposite, don't use your head hunter to tell you about that opportunity. Basically tell them you found the opportunity and say you want it. Some of the better head hunters are on 1st-name basis w/ the system recruiter.

I'm actually very happy w/ my head hunters, so if you want some additional info, just PM me and I'll give you their contact information. They are not necessarily pushy, and yes they are trying to make a buck off of you, but they still are very respectful of your time. It is a "fun" time, it should be the exact opposite of Match. You should have multiple offers and have places fight over you, as opposed to casting out your net, and hoping to catch something. ALSO, the good places will do all expense paid trips to onsite interviews. I racked up enough FREE frequent flier miles I'm flying home for Thanksgiving this year!

Good luck, and let me know if you want my recruiters.

 

[Pes anserine]

Hi,

I'm in the same boat. Last year of residency, in the job hunt, but at the same time I'm basically done w/ it. And found a great job opportunity. I'm sure IM and PMR is different, but I don't think looking for a job is that different.

What I did was got 2 head hunters, as a result of a job fair (CareerMD), and then also used my own hustle. Head hunters are generally great if you aren't restricted to area because they have access to a lot of different states. It is better than you really going too much in (to be worth your time). However, I used my own hustle, and probably secured as many interviews as the recruiters by contacting the system hospital recruiter. For real example, I contacted the recruiter for WVP (in Salem, OR) on my own. I am currently sitting on their job offer.

And as was mentioned, it's a good idea to check the hospital's career website yourself. If the job is available on their website, you can (and should) apply via that way. Then, you can also double check w/ your head-hunter. Like the opposite, don't use your head hunter to tell you about that opportunity. Basically tell them you found the opportunity and say you want it. Some of the better head hunters are on 1st-name basis w/ the system recruiter.

I'm actually very happy w/ my head hunters, so if you want some additional info, just PM me and I'll give you their contact information. They are not necessarily pushy, and yes they are trying to make a buck off of you, but they still are very respectful of your time. It is a "fun" time, it should be the exact opposite of Match. You should have multiple offers and have places fight over you, as opposed to casting out your net, and hoping to catch something. ALSO, the good places will do all expense paid trips to onsite interviews. I racked up enough FREE frequent flier miles I'm flying home for Thanksgiving this year!

Good luck, and let me know if you want my recruiters.

Thanks for your response. A couple of things - PM&R is a much smaller field than IM, where there are thousands of jobs vs hundreds for PM&R. Also I'm restricted to a very competitive market, so there are limited number of jobs in the desired area. So a little different. I also am rather picky -ie- I don't want call, etc., I'm specific about salary, etc. so it's a little more challenging. But congrats on the job! Good for you!

 

[Gfliptastic]

Thanks for your response. A couple of things - PM&R is a much smaller field than IM, where there are thousands of jobs vs hundreds for PM&R. Also I'm restricted to a very competitive market, so there are limited number of jobs in the desired area. So a little different. I also am rather picky -ie- I don't want call, etc., I'm specific about salary, etc. so it's a little more challenging. But congrats on the job! Good for you!

Ok. One of my favorite jump off points was Doximity. (And yes, only 42 jobs vs. +100 😱)

Good luck.

 

[RangerBob]

I've found cold-calling to be the most helpful. After that, I'd say careermd, the AAPM&R job board site, and Linda Farr (she's a third-party PM&R recruiter, but much more professional than the other third-party recruiters) have all been helpful too. NEJM has some PM&R jobs listed as well. I didn't know Doximity had job postings, so I can't comment on them, but the more sources the better. Still, if you know you want to live and work in a specific spot, cold call all the groups and/or rehab units you're willing to work for. Just make sure you get connected with someone who would know whether there are open positions, or someone with the power to create one (at least one person said they didn't have a current opening, but thought they could create one for me). Generally that would be the medical director at a inpatient unit, or a partner at a group practice.

Who you know helps a lot too. My current PD has put in touch with a number of medical directors/service chiefs who told me about positions they would be posting months before they formally announced them.