Job Situation Entire U.S.

[VancTheTank]

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[StaviZFingerZ]

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that there are cities where the market is saturated. However, every person offers the same anecdote as proof. "Well, I have a job here, but I know a guy who doesn't, it's saturated here too." Okay. Did they want a hospital position? Many hospitals are in hiring freezes because of the economy. Did they want to work within a certain part of a metro area, or were they willing to work in the suburbs? This is not a black and white issue of "There's either jobs or not"; if a student is really considering pharmacy as a career and wants to work in a specific spot, it's worth his while to do some digging on his own and find out about an area. This is not a "I can work anywhere I want" sentiment, simply a suggestion that if you're going into the field, know firsthand what you're getting into.

Just 5 years ago, pharmacists were able to get a job anywhere in the US. Fact or Fiction?

Today, pharmacists are not able to get a job anywere in the US.
Fact or Fiction?

Today, Wags & CVS, 2 of the largest employers of pharmacists have curtailed their exapansion.
Fact or Fiction?

Tomorrow, there will be more pharmacists graduating in the US.
Fact or Fiction?

Put the 2 and 2 together and stop bashing more experienced pharmacists with anectdotal experience that carries a lot more weight.

 

[gsinccom]

Meh...I don't think the coming years will be apocalyptic, but they certainly won't be as easy as the past several. Study hard, but more importantly make a good impression during your rotations.

As a hiring manager for a hospital in the (gasp) Midwest, I can say firsthand that the market is shifting. We used to have trouble finding applicants. During the recent "hiring season", we had 20+ applicants for three positions. I can only assume the numbers will continue in that direction.

FWIW, you are actually in a better position if you are looking for a job anytime other than spring. It has probably been discussed here many times before, but the glut of new grads each spring does make the pickins' slim. If you are looking later in the summer or in the fall/winter, you will not face as much competition.

good info. thanks

 

[IrishHammer]

Just 5 years ago, pharmacists were able to get a job anywhere in the US. Fact or Fiction?

Today, pharmacists are not able to get a job anywere in the US.
Fact or Fiction?

Today, Wags & CVS, 2 of the largest employers of pharmacists have curtailed their exapansion.
Fact or Fiction?

Tomorrow, there will be more pharmacists graduating in the US.
Fact or Fiction?

Put the 2 and 2 together and stop bashing more experienced pharmacists with anectdotal experience that carries a lot more weight.

Pharmacists can't get a job anywhere? That's fiction. There may be more competition for jobs (which is unquestionably a good thing, as it will eliminate the scores of "pulse and paper" pharmacists who managed to get hired over the years thanks to the shortage), but the job market being tighter is a very, very different animal from there being no jobs whatsoever.

I'm not trying to insult or demean any experienced pharmacists. Advising people to look deeper and not take everything at face value does not equate personal bashing. Besides, if someone is actually willing to do some real research about their area and find out about job prospects, that to me is a good indication of their work ethic. However, I will say that it's a logical fallacy to claim that secondhand anecdotes of experienced pharmacists somehow carry more weight. You're a smart guy. If you say your town is saturated, without actually having looked around the town myself, I'd be inclinced to say you're right. But if I inquire around another town, and they do have openings, then what weight does the anecdote hold?

You must understand, unlike many pre-pharmacy students, I'm not in this field to make a buck. Thanks to very good financial planning and a personal sense of thrift that borders on utterly stingy, I will have a minimal amount of loan debt after graduation and will be able to pay it off in very short order. I don't give a rat's ass what my salary is, and I don't plan on ever using that fact to my advantage. I'm getting into the field because I want to be in the field, and I plan on doing my job with integrity and dedication. Are the prospects of our field grim right now? Yes, without a doubt. There are too many schools opening, especially in such a down economy, and it needs to be curtailed ASAP. I'm in full agreement with you. But does that mean it's the end of the road for someone who is currently considering pharmacy? Not if they have the right mindset and are proactive enough in securing their own future. That's all I'm trying to get across.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Pharmacists can't get a job anywhere? That's fiction.

Have you looked for a jpharmacist job everywhere in the US? Have you worked as a pharmacist before? Have you been hired as a pharmacist before?

If you answered No to all 3, I would think you really have no idea what you're talking about.

There may be more competition for jobs (which is unquestionably a good thing, as it will eliminate the scores of "pulse and paper" pharmacists who managed to get hired over the years thanks to the shortage), but the job market being tighter is a very, very different animal from there being no jobs whatsoever.

You only need one job. But when 20 pharmacists compete for 1 position, 19 will have no job.

You may think I speak anecdotally. I'm not... I work with 250 hospitals throughout the country. We only have 35 pharmacist positions open. Out of that 20 is for DOP. The other 7 require residency and the other 8 is for staff position. Good luck.

I'm not trying to insult or demean any experienced pharmacists. Advising people to look deeper and not take everything at face value does not equate personal bashing. Besides, if someone is actually willing to do some real research about their area and find out about job prospects, that to me is a good indication of their work ethic. However, I will say that it's a logical fallacy to claim that secondhand anecdotes of experienced pharmacists somehow carry more weight. You're a smart guy. If you say your town is saturated, without actually having looked around the town myself, I'd be inclinced to say you're right. But if I inquire around another town, and they do have openings, then what weight does the anecdote hold?

It's pretty insulting when a fresh faced not yet P1 thinks he knows everything. Anecdotes my ass.

 

[bananaface]

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/state.html
Overall, the map looks alot like it did in 2004 except that the high demand areas have moved to moderate and there are a couple more states listed as balanced.

This may be of interest to you all:
http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/summary.html

Late-breaking news. We received late data for the March ADI report that changes the national ADI from 3.76 to 3.80. This slight rise in the ADI from last month (3.77), suggests the downward trend may be slowing or even reversing. The report below preceded receipt of these data.

March 2009 Summary. The ADI for March 2009 is 3.76, down slightly from 3.77 last month. These values represent a slowing downward trend traceable to the last 2 quarters of 2008. One year ago, the ADI was at 4.05—very much higher than this month's ADI. This month there was 1 state at the highest level of shortage or unmet demand which is "5"—Wisconsin at 4.83. There were 36 states at the "4" level (some difficulty filling open positions). The number of states at the "3" level (balance between supply and demand) was 14: Nevada, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Michigan, Arizona, Oklahoma, Florida, New Jersey, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Iowa and New Hampshire. There was 1 state at the "2" level (supply somewhat greater than demand): Hawaii. There were no states at the "1" level (demand much less than the pharmacist supply available). Overall, 72.6% of the U.S. population was residing in states where filling open positions was at least moderately difficult in March 2009—down from 77.2% last month.

Regional and Divisional Demand Indices. This month South had the highest level of unmet demand at 3.92, up from 3.85 last month. The Midwest had the next highest level at 3.70, up substantially from 3.58 last month. The West was next at 3.69, down substantially from 4.00 last month. The Northeast was lowest at 3.58, up from 3.52 last month. The gap which we have been observing on and off between the West/South and the Midwest/Northeast disappeared completely this month with the West falling to the third position in unmet regional demand.

The West South Central division (AR, LA, OK, TX) had the highest unmet demand this month at 4.12, up from 4.06 last month. Next was the East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) at 4.02, up from 3.87 last month. New England (CT, MA, ME, NH, RI, VT) had the lowest level of unmet demand at 3.38, up somewhat from 3.33 last month. The Mountain division (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) was next at 3.43, down from 3.59 last month. Values for all regions and divisions are on the ADI Website, www.pharmacymanpower.com

State Demand Indices.In March 2009, there was one state with a demand level rounding to "5= high demand"—Wisconsin at 4.83. There were 36 states at the "4" level (some difficulty filling open positions) and 14 states at the "3" level (balance between supply and demand): Nevada, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Michigan, Arizona, Oklahoma, Florida, New Jersey, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Iowa and New Hampshire. There was one state at the "2" (supply is somewhat greater than demand) level: Hawaii at 2.00. There were no states at the "1" level (demand is much less than the pharmacist supply available). Read all individual state ratings on the state map at the ADI Website, www.pharmacymanpower.com

Demand Indices by Population. In March 2009, 1.9% of the U.S. population lived in states at the "5" level, the same as last month. With 36 states in the "4" category this month, the percent population at the "4" level was 70.7%, down from 75.3% last month. This month, 27% lived in states at the "3" level, up substantially from 22.4% last month. 0.4% lived in states at the "2" level and 0% at the "1" level. Overall, in March 2009, 72.6% of the U.S. population was residing in states where filling open positions was at least moderately difficult.

Demand Indices by Practice Setting. This month's community pharmacy demand index was 3.29, down from 3.37 last month. The demand for institutional pharmacist positions was 4.16, up substantially from 3.29 last month. Integrated health systems with both institutional and community positions, which generally experience higher demand, were at 3.33, down substantially from 4.83 last month.

Thank you for your continued participation and interest in the Aggregate Demand Index project.
- Katherine Knapp

Katherine K. Knapp, PhD
Professor and Dean
College of Pharmacy, Touro University - California
1310 Johnson Lane, Mare Island
Vallejo, CA 94592
Phone: 707.638.5221; FAX: 707.638.5266
Email: [email protected] or [email protected]

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

[/COLOR]

Have you looked for a jpharmacist job everywhere in the US? Have you worked as a pharmacist before? Have you been hired as a pharmacist before?

If you answered No to all 3, I would think you really have no idea what you're talking about.



You only need one job. But when 20 pharmacists compete for 1 position, 19 will have no job.

You may think I speak anecdotally. I'm not... I work with 250 hospitals throughout the country. We only have 35 pharmacist positions open. Out of that 20 is for DOP. The other 7 require residency and the other 8 is for staff position. Good luck.



It's pretty insulting when a fresh faced not yet P1 thinks he knows everything. Anecdotes my ass.

I know right... p1 kids now a days... they have no common sense. Most of them didnt take basic statistics much less an advance one. Yet they throw around terms they have no idea about.

Jk. I am still a kid too.

But then again, Irish isnt even a p1 yet so I have no idea where he is coming from. He has no clue that student loans (150k)... requires at least 1-2k a month after taxes just to pay off the interest! He has no clue that statistically, he wont be the 19 out of 20 kids getting that hospital job. Heck, he has no clue that no matter how thrifty it is, he is going to get raped up in the ass by the schooling system. Ahhh ignorance is bliss... I wish I had somebody telling me all of this when I first started... No. Slaverph did not count.

 

[IrishHammer]

I know right... p1 kids now a days... they have no common sense. Most of them didnt take basic statistics much less an advance one. Yet they throw around terms they have no idea about.

Jk. I am still a kid too.

But then again, Irish isnt even a p1 yet so I have no idea where he is coming from. He has no clue that student loans (150k)... requires at least 1-2k a month after taxes just to pay off the interest! He has no clue that statistically, he wont be the 19 out of 20 kids getting that hospital job. Heck, he has no clue that no matter how thrifty it is, he is going to get raped up in the ass by the schooling system. Ahhh ignorance is bliss... I wish I had somebody telling me all of this when I first started... No. Slaverph did not count.

Where did I say I'm going to have 150K in student loans? My financial situation has already been mapped out, I'm going to walk away with my PharmD carrying the burden of approximately half of your figure.

You also seem to be assuming that I'm deadset on getting a full-time, clinical position. Um, no. If I have to work part time, or work in retail, so be it. It'd be nice to have a full time job, and if moving and/or working graveyard shifts is what I have to do for that, then fine, but with the state of both the profession and the economy, I'll just be glad to have a job.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Where did I say I'm going to have 150K in student loans? My financial situation has already been mapped out, I'm going to walk away with my PharmD carrying the burden of approximately half of your figure.

You also seem to be assuming that I'm deadset on getting a full-time, clinical position. Um, no. If I have to work part time, or work in retail, so be it. It'd be nice to have a full time job, and if moving and/or working graveyard shifts is what I have to do for that, then fine, but with the state of both the profession and the economy, I'll just be glad to have a job.

Nobody cares about your financial situation. Money that you saved up or parents helping you is not the norm.

http://home.sjfc.edu/bursar/costsGrad.asp

You school charges you 30k a year (assuming that tuition stays the same). Even if you get financial aid (Financial aid ends in the 5th year of your overall higher education), you still have to borrow to cover the rest. After interest (on your principle loan) and other expenses such as professional references, fees such as student malpractice insurance, rotation expenses, license review courses and exams, etc ... it will come out to 150k.

 

[IrishHammer]

Nobody cares about your financial situation.

Apparently you do, since you're still going on about it.

 

[WhiteSnows]

Why there is always arguement in every thread that I went to. I recommend this book to read :" How to win friends and influent people" of Dale Carnegie. Hope we will all keep thing positively.