Joining before med school for the GI Bill?

[deleted988749]

Say someone is set on medical school and open to the idea of military after. Wouldn't it also make sense to enlist/OCS before med school to get the GI bill to pay off med school instead? This way they aren't trapped to a general care residency the military will give them. And it will look better on their application so they could go to better medical school. The GI Bill is only 3 years but I think paying the 1 year cost of med school is well worth the flexibility of choice.

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[LTMCUSN]

I’m sure its been done, but why?

If you’re not interested in one of the scholarship programs, why not join the military after a civilian residency of your choice, if you are still interested in loan repayment options? Also, keep in mind that your GI Bill cap for private schools is $24,476 at the moment-that does not get you very far at many private programs.

I am also not sure what you mean by a ”general care” residency. You will have a more limited selection for GME in the military- that is true- but you are not forced into any program. You can always pay back your service obligation by being a general medical officer (GMO) and then apply to the residency of your choice after the military, if you cannot find what you want. You would also be eligible for the GI Bill at this point, and you wouldnt have to put off your medical school plans for three years to get it.

 

[j4pac]

You do realize that physicians very commonly make over $150k right out of residency? $150,000 x 4 years = $600,000. How much do you make per year junior enlisted? $30ish thousand. $30,000 x 4 = $120,000.

So, if someone goes straight to Med school...they will probably make AT LEAST $480,000 more than someone who enlists. And that assumes that someone enters a job ar roughly15%tile in primary care...if they do non-primary care...the difference will be much greater. Even if someone enters as an officer, there’s an enormous difference to overcome.

 

[deleted988749]

You do realize that physicians very commonly make over $150k right out of residency? $150,000 x 4 years = $600,000. How much do you make per year junior enlisted? $30ish thousand. $30,000 x 4 = $120,000.

So, if someone goes straight to Med school...they will probably make AT LEAST $480,000 more than someone who enlists. And that assumes that someone enters a job ar roughly15%tile in primary care...if they do non-primary care...the difference will be much greater. Even if someone enters as an officer, there’s an enormous difference to overcome.

But there's the GI Bill. It can potentially cover $50k of tuition for 3 years so $150,000. Plus the benefit of military on the application will lead to better medical school which will affect the choice of specialty in the future.

Anyways. I was asking military before med school vs after. I think if someone really wants to serve they should just do it before going to medical school. To reiterate. First of all, this is your last chance at doing something non med related before being tied to medicine for the next decade and potentially for life. Financially, the 3 year GI Bill is also really good even though it does not cover everything like military after med school does. The boost in application also helps indirectly in choosing specialty in future, not like joining after medical school where it's REALLY LIKELY you are forced to do family med!

It's just my view on it. Please correct me if I'm wrong or tell me if you think otherwise. It really sounds like a no brainier to me I think I'm missing something.

 

[deleted988749]

I’m sure its been done, but why?

If you’re not interested in one of the scholarship programs, why not join the military after a civilian residency of your choice, if you are still interested in loan repayment options? Also, keep in mind that your GI Bill cap for private schools is $24,476 at the moment-that does not get you very far at many private programs.

I am also not sure what you mean by a ”general care” residency. You will have a more limited selection for GME in the military- that is true- but you are not forced into any program. You can always pay back your service obligation by being a general medical officer (GMO) and then apply to the residency of your choice after the military, if you cannot find what you want. You would also be eligible for the GI Bill at this point, and you wouldnt have to put off your medical school plans for three years to get it.

I see. The GI Bill part changes everything. I guess in terms of direct pay from military joining before loses out a lot.
I'm confuse by what you mean eligible for GI Bill at this point. What will a medical school graduate be doing with GI Bill? Get a PhD lol?

 

[SirGecko]

I see. The GI Bill part changes everything. I guess in terms of direct pay from military joining before loses out a lot.
I'm confuse by what you mean eligible for GI Bill at this point. What will a medical school graduate be doing with GI Bill? Get a PhD lol?

If you get out of the military and haven’t completed residency yet you can use the GI bill to supplement income in residency. It’s not the full tuition benefit but it is a way to use it. Also I would remember the ability to transfer the gi bill to a child or spouse is a pretty big benefit and a different way to use it on the back end.

 

[armytrainingsir]

The post 9/11 GI Bill is 36 months, not 3 years. The first two years of medical school aren't 12 months, so you would get the first part of your 4th year paid for.

Don't forget the housing allowance too.
IIRC, it is the E5 rate based on zip code.
That is an additional 50k or so, cash, tax free

Interesting concept.

So, spitballing here......

Theoretically, a motivated person could enlist after HS. Or better yet, do split option and be a drilling reservist during Sr year of HS, making/saving cash and then going AD.
Serve four years AD, as 68W, ideally in garrison unit, not field unit
TSP for math
Pick up the first 2 years of college credits online/ community college while on AD. Pay out of pocket.
Save cash for 2 years of college to finish degree
ETS or go reserves.
Knock out last 2 years of college
Get accepted to medical school
Go to IRR
Buy house in city where going to med school with VA loan
Housing allowance pays mortgage
Get good retirement years in IRR
Train in city where med school is located in order to stay in same house for an additional 3-5 years.
Finish residency.


After doing the above:

Upside:
Life experiences
Board cert MD
House with 7-12 years of equity+ appreciation
Little to no debt
10+ years toward reserve retirement
TSP retirement account
Only be 2 years behind peers.

Downside:
2 years behind peers
Two sucky years finishing college degree
Cost of those two years college+ living expenses

 

[deleted988749]

The post 9/11 GI Bill is 36 months, not 3 years. The first two years of medical school aren't 12 months, so you would get the first part of your 4th year paid for.

Don't forget the housing allowance too.
IIRC, it is the E5 rate based on zip code.
That is an additional 50k or so, cash, tax free

Interesting concept.

So, spitballing here......

Theoretically, a motivated person could enlist after HS. Or better yet, do split option and be a drilling reservist during Sr year of HS, making/saving cash and then going AD.
Serve four years AD, as 68W, ideally in garrison unit, not field unit
TSP for math
Pick up the first 2 years of college credits online/ community college while on AD. Pay out of pocket.
Save cash for 2 years of college to finish degree
ETS or go reserves.
Knock out last 2 years of college
Get accepted to medical school
Go to IRR
Buy house in city where going to med school with VA loan
Housing allowance pays mortgage
Get good retirement years in IRR
Train in city where med school is located in order to stay in same house for an additional 3-5 years.
Finish residency.


After doing the above:

Upside:
Life experiences
Board cert MD
House with 7-12 years of equity+ appreciation
Little to no debt
10+ years toward reserve retirement
TSP retirement account
Only be 2 years behind peers.

Downside:
2 years behind peers
Two sucky years finishing college degree
Cost of those two years college+ living expenses

LMAO. Had to Google a bunch of acronyms but this seems pretty legit. There are many days I wish I enlisted after high school. This has to be the best path I could think of.
Nothing against the people who does military after med school but if you want to serve why would you want to serve as a doctor in the military when you are going to be a doctor for the rest of your life. In my opinion I rather do enlist work and experience more aspects of life.

 

[j4pac]

But there's the GI Bill. It can potentially cover $50k of tuition for 3 years so $150,000. Plus the benefit of military on the application will lead to better medical school which will affect the choice of specialty in the future.

Anyways. I was asking military before med school vs after. I think if someone really wants to serve they should just do it before going to medical school. To reiterate. First of all, this is your last chance at doing something non med related before being tied to medicine for the next decade and potentially for life. Financially, the 3 year GI Bill is also really good even though it does not cover everything like military after med school does. The boost in application also helps indirectly in choosing specialty in future, not like joining after medical school where it's REALLY LIKELY you are forced to do family med!

It's just my view on it. Please correct me if I'm wrong or tell me if you think otherwise. It really sounds like a no brainier to me I think I'm missing something.

I understand the benefit of the GI Bill, I’ve used it. I don’t think you realize that the GI Bill is not likely to make up the difference of the money you lost by not becoming a physician sooner. $150,000 is nothing compared to the opportunity loss by becoming a physician four years later...again you’re losing at least $480,000 on active duty, and about $400,000 as a non-medical junior officer. You are still over $200,000 in the hole after the GI Bill

If you are going completely based on trying to make the most money...it’s to go civilian at a low prices medical school immediately after undergrad...and do 10 year loanforgiveness (if working in a non-for profit) or otherwise consolidating your loans immediately after residency at a lower rate and pay them off quickly (which you’ll be able to if your a physician and have discipline). Id only consider military if you truly want to serve and care less about trying to get a deal.

And you’re being a little dramatic about being FORCED into primary care. The mass majority applicants get what they want in the military...assuming they are competitive for what the want (just like the civilian world). Those that do not can do a GMO tour and get out and then do what they want (like me). But nobody is forced into primary care.

If your argument that becoming a non-medical officer by going through OCS, then using GI Bill for Med school is better than using HPSP...I’d probably disagree for a number of reasons. First...you are spending four years doing something random outside of medicine. Next...you will be forced to do MCAT years after undergrad...which could hurt your test score. Lastly...I’m still not sure it’s a wise financial decision. Again...you are significantly discounting opportunity cost of becoming a physician later.

 

[deleted988749]

I understand the benefit of the GI Bill, I’ve used it. I don’t think you realize that the GI Bill is not likely to make up the difference of the money you lost by not becoming a physician sooner. $150,000 is nothing compared to the opportunity loss by becoming a physician four years later...again you’re losing at least $480,000 on active duty, and about $400,000 as a non-medical junior officer. You are still over $200,000 in the hole after the GI Bill

If you are going completely based on trying to make the most money...it’s to go civilian at a low prices medical school immediately after undergrad...and do 10 year loanforgiveness (if working in a non-for profit) or otherwise consolidating your loans immediately after residency at a lower rate and pay them off quickly (which you’ll be able to if your a physician and have discipline). Id only consider military if you truly want to serve and care less about trying to get a deal.

And you’re being a little dramatic about being FORCED into primary care. The mass majority applicants get what they want in the military...assuming they are competitive for what the want (just like the civilian world). Those that do not can do a GMO tour and get out and then do what they want (like me). But nobody is forced into primary care.

If your argument that becoming a non-medical officer by going through OCS, then using GI Bill for Med school is better than using HPSP...I’d probably disagree for a number of reasons. First...you are spending four years doing something random outside of medicine. Next...you will be forced to do MCAT years after undergrad...which could hurt your test score. Lastly...I’m still not sure it’s a wise financial decision. Again...you are significantly discounting opportunity cost of becoming a physician later.

Of course you make more money if you work as a physician as early as possible. Can you please stop reiliterating this obvious point?

I think your first point can be seen both ways. For many people, they want to do some unrelated to medicine before spending the rest of their life in medicine. Your second point is true. Third point you chose to ignore everything I wrote. I said doing military before med school will boost your application hard. Better app-> Better School -> Better choice of specialty which could potentially result in higher income after med school. Whereas being in the military your chance of a top specialty is significantly diminished. Your last point I get it. But as a flight surgeon, you are a GMO and from what I found on Google GMOs make $20k.. so I really don't get why you keep drilling this point when you chose against it yourself.

I don't understand why you keep drilling this financial point. It's known going to med school and straight to residency then work is the best financial path. People serve because they want to serve their country. I'm comparing the two routes people could take to serve their country if they want to be a physician.

 

[LTMCUSN]

...from what I found on Google GMOs make $20k..

Is this the Cuban military?

 

[deleted988749]

Is this the Cuban military?

idk i just google "military gmo salary"

 

[SirGecko]

20k is the gmo bonus on top of tour normal salary.

Also I think you are overestimating the boost to your application from being in the military.

 

[deleted480308]

idk i just google "military gmo salary"

You don’t know enough about this to be so angry at jpac for their useful advice

 

[deleted988749]

You don’t know enough about this to be so angry at jpac for their useful advice

I'm just telling him/her to stop going off track because it's takes away from what I want to talk about in this post. I react everyone who post on my threads because I appreciate their input.
I'm angry at you, however, for assuming my mood like you're somehow so smart you call me out. Not only you put me down for not knowing something I took effort in trying to know, you didn't even bother explaining it.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm just telling him/her to stop going off track because it's takes away from what I want to talk about in this post. I react everyone who post on my threads because I appreciate their input.
I'm angry at you, however, for assuming my mood like you're somehow so smart you call me out. Not only you put me down for not knowing something I took effort in trying to know, you didn't even bother explaining it.

I’m pointing out that your demonstrated lack of knowledge on the topic makes it impossible for you to accurately determine if the answer you are getting is actually not needed as opposed to not wanted. Those are different things and your reactions to people with more knowledge who are willing to help you hear what you need don’t encourage folks to want to put energy into helping you

your anger is a choice and it’s counterproductive to increasing useful knowledge

 

[Helpful Troll]

Say someone is set on medical school and open to the idea of military after. Wouldn't it also make sense to enlist/OCS before med school to get the GI bill to pay off med school instead? This way they aren't trapped to a general care residency the military will give them. And it will look better on their application so they could go to better medical school. The GI Bill is only 3 years but I think paying the 1 year cost of med school is well worth the flexibility of choice.

Good luck with this. Go see an AD recruiter to enlist for the GI Bill benefits in the future. It's not for everyone but you should be ok.

 

[LTMCUSN]

OP, have you thought about talking to a corpsman or medic to get a sense of what enlisted life is like? Might be very helpful if you decide to go this route- that’s assuming you can get the MOS/rating of your choice in the medical community.

Don’t want to dissuade you from this but I would really think about the other commissioning routes through medical school (HPSP, HSCP, USUHS) or after residency (direct commission with loan repayment and signing bonuses if your ultimate goal is to pay for medical school and serve- you will make a lot more money this way, not delay medical school for years like some of us did and now regret (myself included here), and have more freedom of choice than most enlisted have- it is a tough life for many junior enlisted and something you should really consider. I also agree with the other posters- I don’t know how much military service helps your application. I certainly wouldn’t count on it to make up for other weak points in your application. Good luck.

 

[TheEarDoc]

OP, have you thought about talking to a corpsman or medic to get a sense of what enlisted life is like? Might be very helpful if you decide to go this route- that’s assuming you can get the MOS/rating of your choice in the medical community.

Don’t want to dissuade you from this but I would really think about the other commissioning routes through medical school (HPSP, HSCP, USUHS) or after residency (direct commission with loan repayment and signing bonuses if your ultimate goal is to pay for medical school and serve- you will make a lot more money this way, not delay medical school for years like some of us did and now regret (myself included here), and have more freedom of choice than most enlisted have- it is a tough life for many junior enlisted and something you should really consider. I also agree with the other posters- I don’t know how much military service helps your application. I certainly wouldn’t count on it to make up for other weak points in your application. Good luck.

Yep me thinks the op doesn't realize how rough the life of a baby whiskey in the Army or a baby corpsman in the Navy can be.

 

[deleted988749]

I’m pointing out that your demonstrated lack of knowledge on the topic makes it impossible for you to accurately determine if the answer you are getting is actually not needed as opposed to not wanted. Those are different things and your reactions to people with more knowledge who are willing to help you hear what you need don’t encourage folks to want to put energy into helping you

your anger is a choice and it’s counterproductive to increasing useful knowledge

I was pointing out jpac don't need to talk paragraphs about the same point twice. Not only that but he used it as his main point for something not even related to what I'm asking. Not to mention everything he said is really obvious lol.

I made this discussion because I knew a friend of a friend who enlisted and is now in DO school. It honestly seems to me joining the force before med school is for the most part a better move and I want to have a discussion here. That's all.

 

[deleted988749]

20k is the gmo bonus on top of tour normal salary.

Also I think you are overestimating the boost to your application from being in the military.

Like on top of normal officer pay? So that would be around $60k salary in total

 

[deleted988749]

OP, have you thought about talking to a corpsman or medic to get a sense of what enlisted life is like? Might be very helpful if you decide to go this route- that’s assuming you can get the MOS/rating of your choice in the medical community.

Don’t want to dissuade you from this but I would really think about the other commissioning routes through medical school (HPSP, HSCP, USUHS) or after residency (direct commission with loan repayment and signing bonuses if your ultimate goal is to pay for medical school and serve- you will make a lot more money this way, not delay medical school for years like some of us did and now regret (myself included here), and have more freedom of choice than most enlisted have- it is a tough life for many junior enlisted and something you should really consider. I also agree with the other posters- I don’t know how much military service helps your application. I certainly wouldn’t count on it to make up for other weak points in your application. Good luck.

The thing is I don't think the finacial difference is all that big. Sure as an enlist you make like $20k vs $60k GMO you lose out $160k over 4 years. But as officer you make $40k so you lose out on $80k over 4 years. The GI Bill pays for 3.5 years of med school if you go public. If private it pays around $25k*3.5 $88k in total if you go public. So yes if you go private it loses out a lot. But if you do officer and go to a public school, the difference is like $100k.

Of course I talked about the application boost don't have to elaborate more. I also have no idea how will being a GMO(hell I didn't even know it exist before this thread I thought they force most of you to primary care in military) affect residency application. Will it be good or bad for residency selection? That's a big factor considering after residency is kinda... what you do the rest of your life.

I searched a few threads about people considering military before med school, and yea a lot of 3.3 hoping it can save them. For your point about life as a junior enlist. I want to do military before med school because I want to do something else before dedicating the rest of my life to one profession. I think humans are not meant to do one thing their entire life and I want to do another job to look back on. I'm graduating undergrad 1.5 year early, and I don't mind being a doctor later. Look at it like this. For many people, being a doctor might be their first job. I hope I didn't offend anyone by indicating I'm doing this for fun or anything.

I made this post to compare the pros and cons of serving before or after.

 

[LTMCUSN]

Will let someone else advise you on whether GMO experience is beneficial in civilian residency applications. It confers some advantages in the military match, and may especially help you with more competitive residencies.

Doesn't sound like the opportunity cost of lost income is much of a factor for you in this decision, which is good since you’re not going to get rich in the military. But did want to correct one thing you said, just so you’re basing this on accurate numbers:

A brand new 0-1, which you’d be if you commissioned as a line officer today, is making about $42,525.36 +/- BAH (will let you look that up because it depends on where you live and if you are eligible). A GMO (in the Navy, at least) is paid at an 0-3 rate unless they have prior service, so you can expect a base salary of $55,679.76 +/- BAH + $20,000 incentive pay. That’s quite a bit more than you are figuring on.

 

[SirGecko]

The thing is I don't think the finacial difference is all that big. Sure as an enlist you make like $20k vs $60k GMO you lose out $160k over 4 years. But as officer you make $40k so you lose out on $80k over 4 years. The GI Bill pays for 3.5 years of med school if you go public. If private it pays around $25k*3.5 $88k in total if you go public. So yes if you go private it loses out a lot. But if you do officer and go to a public school, the difference is like $100k.

Of course I talked about the application boost don't have to elaborate more. I also have no idea how will being a GMO(hell I didn't even know it exist before this thread I thought they force most of you to primary care in military) affect residency application. Will it be good or bad for residency selection? That's a big factor considering after residency is kinda... what you do the rest of your life.

I searched a few threads about people considering military before med school, and yea a lot of 3.3 hoping it can save them. For your point about life as a junior enlist. I want to do military before med school because I want to do something else before dedicating the rest of my life to one profession. I think humans are not meant to do one thing their entire life and I want to do another job to look back on. I'm graduating undergrad 1.5 year early, and I don't mind being a doctor later. Look at it like this. For many people, being a doctor might be their first job. I hope I didn't offend anyone by indicating I'm doing this for fun or anything.

I made this post to compare the pros and cons of serving before or after.

If you want to join the military to do something before going to medical school then more power to you. I know plenty of prior service guys and gals that don’t regret the decision. Just make sure you are doing it for that reason and not deluding yourself into thinking it will be a financial boon to do it or that it will make it easier to get into medical school.

 

[Volatile]

Not to go too far off topic, but you definitely can come out of a military career in great financial shape.... of course that means having to stomach 20 years of uncertainty. One of my colleagues is a CRNA, enlisted at 17, had nursing school and CRNA school paid for by the military and his payback time is included in his 20 since it was all active duty. In two years he will retire at 37yo with tricare and a pension for the rest of his life, and then start his civilian career. I suppose you could do something similar as a doc. Not saying I would recommend it, but just adding for sh!*s and giggles.

 

[armytrainingsir]

Not to go too far off topic, but you definitely can come out of a military career in great financial shape.... of course that means having to stomach 20 years of uncertainty. One of my colleagues is a CRNA, enlisted at 17, had nursing school and CRNA school paid for by the military and his payback time is included in his 20 since it was all active duty. In two years he will retire at 37yo with tricare and a pension for the rest of his life, and then start his civilian career. I suppose you could do something similar as a doc. Not saying I would recommend it, but just adding for sh!*s and giggles.

No doubt an AMEDD military career for non-MDs is often a no brainer. Nurses especially. Easy to pick up shift work on the side to supplement your income. Retiring in your early 40s as a 05/06 with 'free' healthcare and about a 55k per year pension is a heck of a foundation upon which to start a second career.

 

[pawprint]

I agree with points above about only joining military if you want to be in the military, otherwise you will be completely miserable. There are a lot of extremely frustrating things about the military and the only way to stay sane is to tell yourself "I chose this because I wanted this".

Now, onto the financial component. Lets assume you are going to do your minimum military time by doing 4 years GMO and out. We will compare this to the route of enlisting for 4 years after high school and using GI bill for the first 3 years of medical school. We won't count undergraduate loans into this, because both routes will require the same way to pay for undergrad so they cancel each other out for comparison. End goal is time to civilian attending physician.

Route 1: Straight through, HPSP, GMO and out, civilian residency.
Total time from high school: 4 years undergrad + 4 years med school + 1 year military intern + 4 years GMO + 3 years civilian residency = 16 years
-50k/tuition paid for for 4 years
-Earn 30k/year in stipend pay for 4 years of med school, so 120k earned throughout medical school
-Earn 75k/year for intern year
-Earn 100k/year for GMO years (4 years total), so 400k earned during this time
-Go back to residency, where you will be able to use GI bill to supplement residency pay. You will earn an additional 25k/year during your 3 years of residency on top of your normal civilian residency pay(assuming 2k/month BAH stipend from post-9/11 GI bill, could be more or less depending on location and if you take montgomery GI bill money instead). Residency salaries vary, but lets assume 60k/year, so 85k/year x 3 years = 255k.
Total money earned during this time period: 120k+75k+400k+255k= 850k

Route 2: Enlist out of high school for 4 years, undergrad, med school, residency.
Total time from high school: 4 years enlist, 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 15 years total. to make it equal, we will add 1 year as an attending to get 16 years.
-Earn 20k/year as enlisted for 4 years = 80k
-use GI bill for 3 years of med school. Earn 25k/year of GI bill on housing stipend, 75k earned during those 3 years. Last year of med school costs 50k for the year so total net positive over med school is 25k earned.
-Residency salary is 60k/year x3 years = 180k
-You have 1 extra attending year here...so lets say 200k.
Total money earned over these 16 years: 80k+25k+180k+200k = 485k.

So from a financial standpoint, you make almost 400k more going HPSP route. The enlisted route means you dont have to deal with the military as a doctor, but it does not set up you up for a better financial standpoint compared to HPSP.

 

[j4pac]

I'm just telling him/her to stop going off track because it's takes away from what I want to talk about in this post. I react everyone who post on my threads because I appreciate their input.
I'm angry at you, however, for assuming my mood like you're somehow so smart you call me out. Not only you put me down for not knowing something I took effort in trying to know, you didn't even bother explaining it.

you know...since you know so much why are you even here to ask our opinion? Shouldn’t we be asking for your advice instead? Since you clearly have it figured out...quit wasting our valuable time and just make your foolish decision already.

 

[deleted988749]

you know...since you know so much why are you even here to ask our opinion? Shouldn’t we be asking for your advice instead? Since you clearly have it figured out...quit wasting our valuable time and just make your foolish decision already.

I was talking about military before and after med school and you keep talking about no military at all. You keep going on about it and use it as your main point.
So how about you? From what you said you seem like you regret military yourself. I'm asking people online for information so I don't make the same mistake.

 

[j4pac]

I was talking about military before and after med school and you keep talking about no military at all. You keep going on about it and use it as your main point.
So how about you? From what you said you seem like you regret military yourself. I'm asking people online for information so I don't make the same mistake.

Interesting. You made no mention of HPSP vs OCS/enlist in your OP. You don’t even mention HPSP. So how was I suppose to imply that was what you meant if you don’t say it in the OP? So I gave you my opinion on both scenarios (civilian vs OCS/enlisted and OCS/enlisted vs HPSP) since you were ambiguous. If some of it didn’t apply to you...you know you can just disregard it. The fact that you are getting this frustrated over this actually suggests that you will probably be a crap military doctor...and perhaps you should do our service members a favor and avoid the military entirely.

 

[deleted480308]

OCS/enlist was literally in my post. What else could I be talking about if I'm talking about military after med school? Enlist after med school lol? I even talk about residency and military there is so much context. HPSP is almost the entire point of this forum. Quit making up crap for the sake of your argument.

you might not be aware but officers don’t enlist, they commission...and yes, someone can commission after med school

 

[deleted988749]

you might not be aware but officers don’t enlist, they commission...and yes, someone can commission after med school

I was poking fun at how he said I'm being ambiguous. See even you get it! Of course I'm talking about commissioning what else do you do in military after med school?
Nice try trying to take me down and help your little friend there. You pointed out his stupidity and supported me.

 

[deleted480308]

I was poking fun at how he said I'm being ambiguous. See even you get it! Of course I'm talking about commissioning what else do you do in military after med school?
Nice try trying to take me down and help your little friend there. You pointed out his stupidity and supported me.

You ok?

 

[deleted988749]

You ok?

nice. resort to personal attacks

 

[deleted480308]

nice. resort to personal attacks

I’m asking literally, it’s not an attack

but you do you sir/ma’am. Good luck with it

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Keep this professional. There are people here with actual military experience giving advice. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, but personal attacks are not acceptable.

 

[deleted988749]

I’m asking literally, it’s not an attack

but you do you sir/ma’am. Good luck with it

Good day to you too sir. Hope everything is going alright for you.

 

[John1513]

OP, as you know, the path towards becoming a physician is a long and arduous one.

I am thinking about your original question.
If you are coming from hardship, then the military would be a viable choice before medical school. Do your initial tour, save up some money, earn your GI bill and perhaps even knock out undergrad courses completed while serving your commitment ('google "tuition assistance.")

We call those who are prior enlisted in the Navy as Mustangs.

If you have to worry about making rent, scraping together enough money for food and car payment after high school then yes, the military is a way of 'accelerating your life.'

As our elders on here such as Jpac and Sb247 have pointed out, there are certain hardships that is inherent with being an enlisted service member that officers do not directly experience.

There are pros and cons to every choice, and it is highly personal and unique to each individual.

Please let us know if you have any more questions. Especially if you are talking to a recruiter. Going in being fully educated and expectations fully managed would be best.

 

[ValeRx]

The great thing about being junior enlisted is that at least when you get out, you'll make a hell of a janitor. I can strip, wax and buff a deck like you wouldn't believe.

 

[deleted988749]

Keep this professional. There are people here with actual military experience giving advice. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, but personal attacks are not acceptable.

I'm done with this drama. But just to clear this so in case anyone wants to help me they don't think I'm the bad guy here.
Here are some highlights:
"you will probably be a crap military doctor...and perhaps you should do our service members a favor and avoid the military entirely." -j4pac
Then his buddy Sb came to defend him not realizing I was being sarcastic, inadvertently going against j4pac's argument.

 

[j4pac]

I'm done with this drama. But just to clear this so in case anyone wants to help me they don't think I'm the bad guy here.
Here are some highlights:
"you will probably be a crap military doctor...and perhaps you should do our service members a favor and avoid the military entirely." -j4pac
Then his buddy Sb came to defend him not realizing I was being sarcastic, inadvertently going against j4pac's argument.

There is a sticky at the top of the military forum that you didn’t read. “First: About the Military Medicine Forum” written by the military forum mod Lee. Since you didn’t take the take to read it...here is the pertinent part that you missed:

“Truth can hurt. Officers are trained to collect information and take the best actions based on facts; there is little room for personal feelings. To be most effective, we must be truthful with ourselves and those around us.

If you're coming for advice and don't like the advice you've been given, take a look at yourself before poking at others. A true officer accepts criticism and takes it as an opportunity to improve. If you can't handle hard truths and disappointments, the military will not be a good fit for you.”

If you want to take it up with Lee...that is fine. Maybe hearing it from more than one person will let it sink in. Doesn’t mean that you couldn’t be a good physician...but you are fitting the profile of someone who will struggle with the military.

 

[deleted988749]

There is a sticky at the top of the military forum that you didn’t read. “First: About the Military Medicine Forum” written by the military forum mod Lee. Since you didn’t take the take to read it...here is the pertinent part that you missed:

“Truth can hurt. Officers are trained to collect information and take the best actions based on facts; there is little room for personal feelings. To be most effective, we must be truthful with ourselves and those around us.

If you're coming for advice and don't like the advice you've been given, take a look at yourself before poking at others. A true officer accepts criticism and takes it as an opportunity to improve. If you can't handle hard truths and disappointments, the military will not be a good fit for you.”

If you want to take it up with Lee...that is fine. Maybe hearing it from more than one person will let it sink in. Doesn’t mean that you couldn’t be a good physician...but you are fitting the profile of someone who will struggle with the military.

Mate your complaint about my thread is null. Read what Sb wrote anybody understands what I'm saying when I said military after med school. Well except you.
I tried to guide you in the right direction to help me and you took it as offense. I have nothing more to say to you. Go somewhere else to play your old diva persona.

 

[LTMCUSN]

Mate your complaint about my thread is null. Read what Sb wrote anybody understands what I'm saying when I said military after med school. Well except you.
I tried to guide you in the right direction to help me and you took it as offense. I have nothing more to say to you. Go somewhere else to play your old diva persona.

J4pac is right, you are going to struggle in the military with that kind of attitude, or at least not be taken seriously as an officer.

There are plenty of people that are happy to help you here but learn to listen to tough advice, whether you like it or not, show some humility, and do not take things personally. If you can’t manage that, the military is going to be very painful for you.

 

[esob]

A gentle reminder to please keep the discussion civil and not hurl insults at fellow community members.

 

[deleted988749]

J4pac is right, you are going to struggle in the military with that kind of attitude, or at least not be taken seriously as an officer.

There are plenty of people that are happy to help you here but learn to listen to tough advice, whether you like it or not, show some humility, and do not take things personally. If you can’t manage that, the military is going to be very painful for you.

Again, it's obvious he didn't understand the topic of this post as he complained that my context wasn't clear enough. Maybe I should have made it more clear, but like Sb said, you commission after you have a MD degree it should be pretty obvious. My opening post wasn't very focused on talking about money. He entered this thread by saying "you do realize," already being passive aggressive and keeps talking about money. Keeps telling me I should just forget military and go straight to med school and make money. I thought maybe this guy regrets going to the military and just want to warn me because he thinks I'm doing this for financial reasons, so I asked him to stop because I don't want to detract from my post. I was very humble about it and said "I could be missing" something. I showed humility. But he didn't hear me. The next comment he rehashed the same thing. That's when I decided to be a bit harsh.
His buddy Sb dogpiled on me calling me angry. Nothing else. He just called me angry.
J4pac then called me arrogant because I told him what he was saying is unrelated to the discussion. Guy couldn't take criticism and from the earlier inability to understand what I was saying, pretty stubborn too. That comment calling me arrogant was pure hostility.
THEN he made an even better comment. J4pac told me I'm not competent for the military. It was then I realize his entire intent in this post. He wasn't trying to warn me from military. He thinks he's some kind of elite veteran because he served as a flight doctor. Like "oh you have to be really smart and level minded to be a good military doctor like me. You're not good enough for what I did."
I had enough of his crap so I spat on his face. Too bad the comment was deleted.

If I was in the military I don't mind taking it up the ass. But this is an internet forum I don't need somebody I talked 2 comments with to determine I'm incompetent. He's angry I called him out on his inability to read context that broke his super intelligent forum diva persona and his nice little "constructive criticism" of me was to protect his own ego.

Everybody's argument against me is that I should show respect because I'm asking for advice. And I should be professional because I'm on this forum. The first point sets the ground that me and J4pac were never on equal standing. He joined this discussion with the ability to be a jerk at me because I'm asking a question. Fine fair enough. But what he did wasn't being tough on me. He hurled crap at me and broke professionalism first. Sb broke professionalism by assuming my emotional mood. When you call someone angry, that makes it personal. When you call someone incompetent and a possible danger to servicemen, that makes it personal. Now quit your bias and look at this clearly.
@esob

 

[deleted480308]

Again, it's obvious he didn't understand the topic of this post as he complained that my context wasn't clear enough. Maybe I should have made it more clear, but like Sb said, you commission after you have a MD degree it should be pretty obvious. My opening post wasn't very focused on talking about money. He entered this thread by saying "you do realize," already being passive aggressive and keeps talking about money. Keeps telling me I should just forget military and go straight to med school and make money. I thought maybe this guy regrets going to the military and just want to warn me because he thinks I'm doing this for financial reasons, so I asked him to stop because I don't want to detract from my post. I was very humble about it and said "I could be missing" something. I showed humility. But he didn't hear me. The next comment he rehashed the same thing. That's when I decided to be a bit harsh.
His buddy Sb dogpiled on me calling me angry. Nothing else. He just called me angry.
J4pac then called me arrogant because I told him what he was saying is unrelated to the discussion. Guy couldn't take criticism and from the earlier inability to understand what I was saying, pretty stubborn too. That comment calling me arrogant was pure hostility.
THEN he made an even better comment. J4pac told me I'm not competent for the military. It was then I realize his entire intent in this post. He wasn't trying to warn me from military. He thinks he's some kind of elite veteran because he served as a flight doctor. Like "oh you have to be really smart and level minded to be a good military doctor like me. You're not good enough for what I did."
I had enough of his crap so I spat on his face. Too bad the comment was deleted.

If I was in the military I don't mind taking it up the ass. But this is an internet forum I don't need somebody I talked 2 comments with to determine I'm incompetent. He's angry I called him out on his inability to read context that broke his super intelligent forum diva persona and his nice little "constructive criticism" of me was to protect his own ego.

Everybody's argument against me is that I should show respect because I'm asking for advice. And I should be professional because I'm on this forum. The first point sets the ground that me and J4pac were never on equal standing. He joined this discussion with the ability to be a jerk at me because I'm asking a question. Fine fair enough. But what he did wasn't being tough on me. He hurled crap at me and broke professionalism first. Sb broke professionalism by assuming my emotional mood. When you call someone angry, that makes it personal. When you call someone incompetent and a possible danger to servicemen, that makes it personal. Now quit your bias and look at this clearly.
@esob

It would be cool if you stopped bringing me up, I thought we had settled

 

[deleted988749]

It would be cool if you stopped bringing me up, I thought we had settled

I didn't even ping you I just refer to you. Quite being petty.
If you don't like to take responsibility for what you said maybe shouldn't have said it eh?

 

[deleted480308]

I didn't even ping you I just refer to you. Quite being petty.
If you don't like to take responsibility for what you said maybe shouldn't have said it eh?

I stand by what I said, I just thought we were done repeating ourselves. But you do you, sir/ma’am

 

[deleted988749]

I stand by what I said, I just thought we were done repeating ourselves. But you do you, sir/ma’am

You are so petty it's insane. Not a single ping in your bell and you voluntarily chose to click on this thread. Like you know nothing will happen to you considering you probably account for over 5% of this subforum's activity. You come here to bother me and walk off with your "you do you, sir/ma'mam." What's the point. Seriously grow up.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Well you've clearly received the advice you're going to receive. Do what you will.

Thread closed.