Joining the military to get med school paid for??

[johnwandering]

I was wondering what the pros and cons were of joining the military to get my medical education paid for was...

I will have to take out hefty loans if I go straight into medical school (probably have to live on cereal and ramen for a while) =(

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[McBatCommander]

The biggest con is the part where you have to enlist in the military.

 

[JJMrK]

Do a search. There are plenty of threads on this topic. Also check out the military medicine forum on SDN.

 

[Longshanks]

I was wondering what the pros and cons were of joining the military to get my medical education paid for was...

I will have to take out hefty loans if I go straight into medical school (probably have to live on cereal and ramen for a while) =(

Who doesn't have to take out hefty loans?

While I think the military programs are great programs and an honorable service to our country, the major downside is when Uncle Sam tells you what to do your residency in if the military doesn't have enough of those specialists rather than the residency of your choice. Most of the time its up to you but on occasion they can order you into something other than your personal choice.

edit: absolutely take JJMrK's advice. You'll get great information there.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Con: you're somebody's dog on a leash for many years. I believe that for every year of tuition you are expected to do 100 years of service. And just when you think you will be free, they will enforce "stop loss" because they own you. They will bring your corpse back to life and continue to make you fight their bull**** corporate wars. Have fun.

 

[Electronegative]

Your question is more appropriate for military medicine forum.

Here are some military faq:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=277317

EN

 

[sphun65]

Con: you're somebody's dog on a leash for many years. I believe that for every year of tuition you are expected to do 100 years of service. And just when you think you will be free, they will enforce "stop loss" because they own you. They will bring your corpse back to life and continue to make you fight their bull**** corporate wars. Have fun.

Being a dog isn't so bad actually - sometimes I wonder if life would just be a lot easier that way!

 

[Cypher321]

Pros: Monthly stipend, no need for loans, cool uniforms, you get to tell your kids you were in the military, flag over your coffin when you die

Cons: every summer you spend 30-45 days doing your officer training and physical fitness, the residencies are picked based on the branch's needs though you do get to make a wish list, 4 years active + 4 years inactive duty, Uncle Sam owns you

Also...get used to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPwYWzrK1fc

 

[johnwandering]

Thank you, i'll probably take this over there...

But one last point~


The biggest problem I seem to notice from the posts is that I my career will be centralized in the military?
I don't intend on becoming a military doctor~ (I know that i would hate a life in the military).

I was under the previous assumption that I would serve a few years in the military, and go to medical school & enter residency purely as a regular civilian professional~
Is this not true? Will my career be bound to the military?

 

[Electronegative]

Pros: Monthly stipend, no need for loans, cool uniforms, you get to tell your kids you were in the military, flag over your coffin when you die

Cons: every summer you spend 30-45 days doing your officer training and physical fitness, the residencies are picked based on the branch's needs though you do get to make a wish list, 4 years active + 4 years inactive duty, Uncle Sam owns you

Also...get used to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPwYWzrK1fc

Sources please!?
Last time I checked residency spots are created based on branche's needs and student's apply to their desired specialty like civilians.
Those who don't match to their choice do a GMO which is basically intern year, after which almost all reapplicants match to their choice.

EN

 

[Electronegative]

If you do HPSP scholarship you can either get civilian residency or military hospital residency. After completing the residency you will work for military 7 years as an attending, that's the only commitment, Residency+7years. If you go to USUHS you will only do residency in military hospitals but commitment is same residency+7 years of attending work.

EN

 

[Cypher321]

Thank you, i'll probably take this over there...

But one last point~


The biggest problem I seem to notice from the posts is that I my career will be centralized in the military?
I don't intend on becoming a military doctor~ (I know that i would hate a life in the military).

I was under the previous assumption that I would serve a few years in the military, and go to medical school & enter residency purely as a regular civilian professional~
Is this not true? Will my career be bound to the military?

The HPSP,which is the program that pays for everything, is med school first then military service to pay back for the money Uncle Sam spent on you. Unless you desire more than just having the govt. pay for school, I wouldn't go this route.

Alternatively, you could join up after your undergrad as a regular officer pushing papers somewhere and then use the G.I. bill to pay for some of your school after your term is up.

 

[Longshanks]

Thank you, i'll probably take this over there...

But one last point~


The biggest problem I seem to notice from the posts is that I my career will be centralized in the military?
I don't intend on becoming a military doctor~ (I know that i would hate a life in the military).

I was under the previous assumption that I would serve a few years in the military, and go to medical school & enter residency purely as a regular civilian professional~
Is this not true? Will my career be bound to the military?

If you're going the medical scholarship route, you can do a civilian residency but you still have to do 4 years of active duty, meaning you will be a military doctor for those four years, and then the four years of inactive duty you can be called from time to time. After which you can decide to work for whomever you want, whether that is in the military or in the private/public sector.

If you would hate a life in the military it may not be the best choice as you'll be serving throughout your medical education and early career.

 

[Cypher321]

Sources please!?
Last time I checked residency spots are created based on branche's needs and student's apply to their desired specialty like civilians.
Those who don't match to their choice do a GMO which is basically intern year, after which almost all reapplicants match to their choice.

EN

I think we just said the same thing but I'll see if I can dig up where I read it. I followed some links after posting on the Army's forums over a year ago so I can't make any promises

No dice finding the links or old forms post. Either way he can always check with the official sources.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

I don't intend on becoming a military doctor~ (I know that i would hate a life in the military).

I was under the previous assumption that I would serve a few years in the military, and go to medical school & enter residency purely as a regular civilian professional~
Is this not true? Will my career be bound to the military?

If you are not interested in being a military doc do not go the HPSP route. I would love to be a military doc -- but unfortunately back problems will prevent it (I'm dq ) But if you are not interested in being in the military and getting commands, DO NOT GO THIS ROUTE! Many people are interested in the money, but do not think about what they are getting into, and end up hating it. Make sure you can be interested in working in the military first before applying.

 

[Electronegative]

Thank you, i'll probably take this over there...

But one last point~


The biggest problem I seem to notice from the posts is that I my career will be centralized in the military?
I don't intend on becoming a military doctor~ (I know that i would hate a life in the military).

I was under the previous assumption that I would serve a few years in the military, and go to medical school & enter residency purely as a regular civilian professional~
Is this not true? Will my career be bound to the military?

If you are not interested in being a military doctor don't go this way. Instead of being in active duty for 4 years and 4 years of inactive duty you could've spent that time working and paying off your medical school debt.

EN

 

[aspiringOSTEO]

1

 

[venacontracta]

The biggest con is the part where you have to enlist in the military.

This.

You're selling the ability to make decisions regarding your own career, place of residence, and life in general for a given number of years. You're probably getting a few hundred thousand dollars in exchange for giving up these freedoms. Personally, I'd never take that deal.

 

[mspeedwagon]

The yr commitments outlined are only true if you accept the money for all 4 yrs. It's one yr for ever yr you accept money (a minimum of two yrs). I talked to a recruiter since I plan to join the air force as an M3... I'm not a US citizen so I'm looking into joining for the last two yrs). In my case it would be a 2 yr commitment as a result.

Definitely do NOT go this route if you don't want to be a military doctor. It's a long commitment for someone not interested in being enlisted.

Point of clarification: I was looking into FAP and NOT HSPS.

If you're going the medical scholarship route, you can do a civilian residency but you still have to do 4 years of active duty, meaning you will be a military doctor for those four years, and then the four years of inactive duty you can be called from time to time. After which you can decide to work for whomever you want, whether that is in the military or in the private/public sector.

If you would hate a life in the military it may not be the best choice as you'll be serving throughout your medical education and early career.

 

[latrala2300]

hmm...so what if you accept the scholarship, and end up dropping out halfway through med school? do they run after you for repayment?

in the same vein, what if you develop a health condition through med school that prevents you from military service?

 

[sphun65]

Pros: Monthly stipend, no need for loans, cool uniforms, you get to tell your kids you were in the military, flag over your coffin when you die

Cons: every summer you spend 30-45 days doing your officer training and physical fitness, the residencies are picked based on the branch's needs though you do get to make a wish list, 4 years active + 4 years inactive duty, Uncle Sam owns you

Also...get used to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPwYWzrK1fc

I would just like to point out that this is completely false . You most certainly get to choose your residency. If you join the Navy, they most commonly send you on a 1-year GMO tour and then onto your residency. In rare cases outside of the Navy, the military may place you into a GMO if you don't match. From what I understand, this is >1% of the time, could be wrong though. You apply for your residency via the military match. If you want to do a residency in fingernail surgery, you may request a civilian deferment or check to see if there is an available agreement already in place. A military residency also will pay more than almost any civilian residency stipend I've seen. Of course, you are taking a big time paycut when you enter into active duty, but overall, its a trade at least worth considering.

 

[sphun65]

hmm...so what if you accept the scholarship, and end up dropping out halfway through med school? do they run after you for repayment?

in the same vein, what if you develop a health condition through med school that prevents you from military service?

If you drop out, they will still get their money's worth out of you. Its unlikely you will be given a gun, but you will likely be sent to do grunt work at a hospital or something along those lines. If you really want out, you may be sued in order to recoup the lost money. In short, there are no freebies.

If you develop a serious health condition, you may be able to work out a deal. I'm sure you're just trying to cover all your bases, but the military isn't completely evil.

 

[WNT Signaling]

The money isn't always as good as it seems. If you go to an inexpensive med school, financially, it's not worth it; if you go to an expensive school it might be worth it. If you end-up doing FP you might make a little more in the military, but if you do anything else other than PC, you will take a pay cut, and in the long run, the lost salary over four years might be more than the tuition and stipend Uncle Sam paid you for four years of med school

Read the military med forum: most posters will tell you to do FAP over HPSP because you have more control, you can choose your residency, and that military residencies can be sub-par in certain specialties

 

[TooMuchResearch]

The biggest con is the part where you have to enlist in the military.

This post was the first in a long string of misinformation and wrong information.

OP, I'd suggest trolling the military medicine forums for a while and then maybe contacting a recruiter about your interest. There are many programs available (HPSP, FAP, NG, etc.), and all have different benefits and hooks.

 

[Gastrapathy]

So much misinformation here, its hard to know where to start.

1. The obligated service is paid after training (either after internship, residency, fellowship or some combination thereof). The calculation of how much time one will owe is complicated and can be substantially longer than the initial 4 year obligation.

2. You cannot be forced to train in a specialty you don't like. You may not get the chance to train in the specialty of your choice.

3. There is an entire forum dedicated to this topic. Read it for a couple of hours, then ask your questions there.

 

[TexasFight]

2. You cannot be forced to train in a specialty you don't like. You may not get the chance to train in the specialty of your choice.

Could you explain that further? Those statements sound like they contradict each other.

 

[mspeedwagon]

This is my understanding from an air force recruiter (it was a brief conversation as I am not a United States citizen and not current eligible, but wanted to get as much info as I can before I make a final decision). If there is any misinformation in my response, I'd appreciate if someone corrects it.

Per my understanding, you cannot be made to accept a residency. Let's say you want to do pediatrics, but the military has a strong need for radiologists. The military cannot force you to accept the radiologist residency. However, they also cannot guarantee you'll match immediately in peds. You might have to end up doing an internship year and then try matching into peds the following year.

The military doesn't seem great if you have ONE very specific speciality in mind, but say you have a Top 2, there is a very good chance you'll get one of the other.

Could you explain that further? Those statements sound like they contradict each other.

 

[avatarftw]

Unless you're doing primary care, severely reduced compensation for each year of tuition assistance.

Pros: Monthly stipend, no need for loans, cool uniforms, you get to tell your kids you were in the military, flag over your coffin when you die

Cons: every summer you spend 30-45 days doing your officer training and physical fitness, the residencies are picked based on the branch's needs though you do get to make a wish list, 4 years active + 4 years inactive duty, Uncle Sam owns you

Also...get used to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPwYWzrK1fc

 

[Baron Samedi]

Could you explain that further? Those statements sound like they contradict each other.

The military will not force you into a specialty you do not like. If you want a specialty and it is not available, civilian deferment is possible(but the exception rather than the rule). If you are unable to either get a military residency or a civilian deferment in the specialty you want, the most common scenario is fulfilling your commitment after your intern year as a GMO. Then, after 2-4 years of GMO service(depending on the length of your HPSP commitment), you apply for the match just as you would as an MS4.

 

[mspeedwagon]

This is a good article to start with (recent veteran): http://www.medical-school.ws/military.html

 

[jm192]

I think the whole being in debt part is highly overrated.

Once you're practicing, the loans are really just another bill. Who cares? It's just part of the med-school process. I talked with an Air Force recruiter, and was told there would be something to the tune of $1900$ a month for living expenses. That's awesome. But, student loans are also giving me 1900$ a month for living expenses.

I'd rather pay back the loans, not have any commitments to fulfill. I don't want to serve in the military. I don't want to have to go somewhere that the military needs me, as opposed to wherever I decide I actually want to be above all else.

This is just how I look at it. If you'd rather NOT take out loans/be in debt---this may be the road for you.

 

[mspeedwagon]

This is VERY important. The money is NOT a good reason to do this. However, if you were planning to serve in the military either way, this is an excellent opportunity to start in the military at a higher rank.

Definitely do NOT go this route for the money. There is a great website put up by someone that did and regrets it immensely. I'll post the link once I find it.

Edit: Here is the link (it's fully of great information): http://gruntdoc.com/about. And within the website make sure to visit the pros/cons: http://gruntdoc.com/2004/04/so-you-want-the-navy-to-pay-for-your-med-school.html

I'd rather pay back the loans, not have any commitments to fulfill. I don't want to serve in the military. I don't want to have to go somewhere that the military needs me, as opposed to wherever I decide I actually want to be above all else.

 

[Bojangles85]

The HPSP,which is the program that pays for everything, is med school first then military service to pay back for the money Uncle Sam spent on you. Unless you desire more than just having the govt. pay for school, I wouldn't go this route.

Alternatively, you could join up after your undergrad as a regular officer pushing papers somewhere and then use the G.I. bill to pay for some of your school after your term is up.

Pretty sure you can't use the G.I. Bill to pay for your college as an officer. They want officers that want to be in the military, not using the military to pay off a loan.

G.I. is for enlisted people. IIRC.....

 

[avatarftw]

Amen. The debt is being sensationalized. I just crunched all the numbers and I'll owe about 170,000 after medical school. (I'll have the option of paying it down slight during residency because I'll be single and won't have many expenditures) Over 20 years and with the 6.8% interest, I'll devote 33,000 gross each year. That IS a significant amount of money.

However, if I work in the boonies like Panda Bear as an ER doc, I hope to make at least 250,000 as a locums doctor. Thus, my gross would be 217,000 for the 20 years. I'm aware about the Bush tax cuts being phased out and the capital gains tax rate increasing, etc.

Now, that doesn't include the opportunity cost of not working for those 7-11 years after college but my major would not have yielded a high salary.

Finally, the military is not THAT bad financially if you are doing primary care. That money that they give you can be invested early on and the pension after 20 years is pretty nice.

It should be noted that the 20 year vesting pension may be changed in the near future to allow pensions after 10, 15, etc years instead of the standard 20 years. I read that it won't be as good as in the past. Currently, its about 50,000 a year after doing 20 years active-duty as a doctor. That's a BIG DEAL. 50,000 every year after retiring from the military. If you had attended the military medical school you could be getting that every year after age 42!

I think the whole being in debt part is highly overrated.

Once you're practicing, the loans are really just another bill. Who cares? It's just part of the med-school process. I talked with an Air Force recruiter, and was told there would be something to the tune of $1900$ a month for living expenses. That's awesome. But, student loans are also giving me 1900$ a month for living expenses.

I'd rather pay back the loans, not have any commitments to fulfill. I don't want to serve in the military. I don't want to have to go somewhere that the military needs me, as opposed to wherever I decide I actually want to be above all else.

This is just how I look at it. If you'd rather NOT take out loans/be in debt---this may be the road for you.

 

[avatarftw]

Also, the national guard options are pretty appealing. I have a lot of family in the military so I also have their anecdotal advice, "Don't do it for the money but for the experiences. Where else can you travel in a supersonic fighter jet that costs 50 million?"

http://www.nationalguard.com/careers/medical-professional-officer/healthcare-bonuses-and-loans

Healthcare Professional Loan Repayment Program (HPLRP)

"Healthcare providers in the Medical and Dental Corps can receive loan repayment assistance—up to $120,000 for certain specialties—by agreeing to a three-year service commitment with the Guard ($40,000 per year, with a $120,000 lifetime cap).
Physicians Assistants, Physical Therapist, Nurse Practitioners, Social Workers, and Clinical Psychologists may qualify for loan repayments up to $20,000 per year with a $60,000 lifetime cap. Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) Nurses can receive up to $10,000 per year with a $30,000 lifetime cap."

The money isn't always as good as it seems. If you go to an inexpensive med school, financially, it's not worth it; if you go to an expensive school it might be worth it. If you end-up doing FP you might make a little more in the military, but if you do anything else other than PC, you will take a pay cut, and in the long run, the lost salary over four years might be more than the tuition and stipend Uncle Sam paid you for four years of med school

Read the military med forum: most posters will tell you to do FAP over HPSP because you have more control, you can choose your residency, and that military residencies can be sub-par in certain specialties