Judge Overrules Parent's Choice in Chemo for Son

[engineeredout]

---

Members do not see this ad.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_he_me/us_med_forced_chemo

Doctors have said Daniel's cancer had up to a 90 percent chance of being cured with chemotherapy and radiation. Without those treatments, doctors said his chances of survival are 5 percent.

Daniel's parents have been supporting what they say is their son's decision to treat the disease with nutritional supplements and other alternative treatments favored by the Nemenhah Band.

The Missouri-based religious group believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians.

After the first chemotherapy treatment, the family said they wanted a second opinion, said Bostrom, a pediatric oncologist who recommended Daniel undergo chemotherapy and radiation.

They later informed him that Daniel would not undergo any more chemotherapy. Bostrom said Daniel's tumor shrunk after the first chemotherapy session, but X-rays show it has grown since he stopped the chemotherapy.


"My son is not in any medical danger at this point," Colleen Hauser testified at a court hearing last week. She also testified that Daniel is a medicine man and elder in the Nemenhah Band.

The family's attorney, Calvin Johnson, said Daniel made the decision himself to refuse chemotherapy, but Brown County said he did not have an understanding of what it meant to be a medicine man or an elder.

Court filings also indicated Daniel has a learning disability and can't read.

The Hausers have eight children. Colleen Hauser told the New Ulm Journal newspaper that the family's Catholicism and adherence to the Nemenhah Band are not in conflict, and that she has used natural remedies to treat illness.

Nemenhah was founded in the 1990s by Philip Cloudpiler Landis, who said Thursday he once served four months in prison in Idaho for fraud related to advocating natural remedies.

Landis said he founded the faith after facing his diagnosis of a cancer similar to Daniel Hauser. He said he treated it with diet choices, visits to a sweat lodge and other natural remedies.

At first I thought it was a matter of a dying kid and the parents just wanted his suffering to end. Then to find that they'd rather send him to a sauna and hope that vitamins cure his cancer? Especially when the docs say he has a 90% chance of survival?

ITs always hard to take a stand on these kinds of cases cause the media usually isn't providing all the info, but still seems F'ed up. They say that the 13 year old "elder" with a learning disability is deciding of his own volution that he doesn't want Chemo?

 

[Bacchus]

This is why the legal system is in place.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

and can this situation be extrapolated to deal with blood transfusions as well?

 

[engineeredout]

This is why the legal system is in place.

Yeah but then you probably have the ACLU on the other side of the fence arguing that the courts are violating their rights. Its definitely not over.


As for blood transfusions, apparently not. Haven't Jehovah's witnesses won the right to refuse them?

 

[phospho]

Its definitely not over.


As for blood transfusions, apparently not. Haven't Jehovah's witnesses won the right to refuse them?

Yup. When I read the article, I figured that the state was trying to get custody of the kid in case the decision was reversed. That way they could still force him to get chemo.

 

[kdavis04]

Yeah but then you probably have the ACLU on the other side of the fence arguing that the courts are violating their rights. Its definitely not over.


As for blood transfusions, apparently not. Haven't Jehovah's witnesses won the right to refuse them?

Why should you have to "win" the right to refuse a treatment. Your body, your choice about what treatment to seek or refuse. Thats how it should be. In the case of a minor, the fact is that the parents have the ultimate right and responsibility to make these decisions for their child.

 

[cpants]

Yeah but then you probably have the ACLU on the other side of the fence arguing that the courts are violating their rights. Its definitely not over.


As for blood transfusions, apparently not. Haven't Jehovah's witnesses won the right to refuse them?

You can refuse anything for yourself. You cannot refuse an emergent blood transfusion or any other time-sensitive, life-saving treatment for your child.

If it's an emergency, you treat the child and ask questions later. If it's not an emergency, as in this case, you try to get a court order.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

and can this situation be extrapolated to deal with blood transfusions as well?

Interesting question. With kids, I think it may. I hope so.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

Someone please teach this kid to read so he can know what decisions he is or is not making. That might put a rest to this entire scenario.

 

[Bacchus]

In the case of emergent care for minors you do in fact ask questions later. While saving the child's life you contact a judge to file the proper paperwork and get custody of the child until he or she is done receiving care. There is not many times where emergent care for a child is denied by a judge. I understand religious objections to medicine, but when it is your child who cannot make an informed decision (because he or she isn't legally able to) I put all my support with the physicians that ask later. Your child is not a pet.

 

[Bowl of oranges]

In the case of a minor, the fact is that the parents have the ultimate right and responsibility to make these decisions for their child.

You are right in 99% of the time the parents are the final decision maker good or bad. Except in a case where it clearly shows, that the parents decision, will kill (or harm) there child. Then it goes from a bad choice, to child abuse. Then the state has the right to flex thier moral authority muscle.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would place his/her life and the lives of their loved ones solely on faith itself, even with the facts in front of them that medicine works. Articles like these anger me. Whatever though, if they don't want treatment for their kid, they're all going to suffer the next time the tumor comes back. It's sad.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Someone please teach this kid to read so he can know what decisions he is or is not making. That might put a rest to this entire scenario.

Whether or not this kid can read is meaningless. He is a minor. Any life saving tx is a MUST. He can not legally make his own decision to turn down tx like this no matter how smart he is. His parents have no authority to successfully deny this tx under current laws.

He will receive tx.

 

[coffeeeandtea]

I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would place his/her life and the lives of their loved ones solely on faith itself, even with the facts in front of them that medicine works. Articles like these anger me. Whatever though, if they don't want treatment for their kid, they're all going to suffer the next time the tumor comes back. It's sad.

i totally agree.

 

[Freezer]

I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would place his/her life and the lives of their loved ones solely on faith itself, even with the facts in front of them that medicine works. Articles like these anger me. Whatever though, if they don't want treatment for their kid, they're all going to suffer the next time the tumor comes back. It's sad.

well... where i agree that this child needs medical treatment, i do also understand where this family is coming from... sure modern medicine has loads of treatments and therapies that have been supported with countless instances of sound science... but any parent who takes there child in for chemo still has no idea what is going on... how the meds are working... what various gizmos and gadgets are doing... they just trust the physician and defer there own lack of knowledge with the doctor's clout... just as they would trust a clergyman to guide their faith when they feel lost... unfortunately, as Jermone Groopman M.D. points out in his book "How Doctor's Think," often times physicians will blindly prescribe procedures that they themselves do not know if they will have any effect at all... even further, improved health cannot always be attributed to the procedure/therapy being used... in a way, trusting our physician is no different then trusting our religious leaders... sure Groopman describes procedures only involving his wrist... however without proper education, anyone could just as easily relate his story to common cancer treatments...

sure we can claim modern medicine is sound science... but that family can cite the 100 years of prescribed Calumel... the 10 years of prescribed Seldane... the 5 years of prescribed Vioxx... all of which were once considered sound science... in their eyes, they probably see the medical establishment much the same way A.T. Still did during the mid 1800s... barbaric...

as doctors, you will have to face the fact that you will be able to foresee the future of your patients health based on the decisions they make... you will have patients that will not take their meds... you will have patients that will still have their "bag of oreos" every monday night during House... you will write "non compliant" at least 3 times a day on patient records... but we cannot, as doctors, blame them... we can only blame the disease... did george bush kill 2974 americans? of course not, 19 well trained hijackers did... are those parents going to kill their son... no, cancer is...

 

[bunnity]

as doctors, you will have to face the fact that you will be able to foresee the future of your patients health based on the decisions they make... you will have patients that will not take their meds... you will have patients that will still have their "bag of oreos" every monday night during House... you will write "non compliant" at least 3 times a day on patient records... but we cannot, as doctors, blame them... we can only blame the disease... did george bush kill 2974 americans? of course not, 19 well trained hijackers did... are those parents going to kill their son... no, cancer is...

So if a parent doesn't give their child food or water, it will be dehydration killing the child and not the parent killing the child? What are you saying makes no sense.

Furthermore, there is a difference between an adult and a minor for a reason. There is a reason why 13 year olds can't vote, get married, have sex with someone over 18, join the military. They aren't ready to make that kind of decision. Of course parents can make many decisions for their children, but not in ways that harm the child. Some wacko religious cult does not give parents the authority to be above the law. It doesn't matter if your religion says it is OK for your kid to get married at 13 or smoke cigarettes at 13 - it's still illegal.

I don't know the specifics of the law regarding medical decisions but I don't see how an illiterate pre-teen brought up in an extreme belief system should be able to be allowed to die because their parents told them that God would fix the cancer. That just makes no sense. It's a crime to allow a dog to suffer without taking it to a vet - how the hell should it be OK to let a child do the same?

 

[Freezer]

So if a parent doesn't give their child food or water, it will be dehydration killing the child and not the parent killing the child? What are you saying makes no sense.

Furthermore, there is a difference between an adult and a minor for a reason. There is a reason why 13 year olds can't vote, get married, have sex with someone over 18, join the military. They aren't ready to make that kind of decision. Of course parents can make many decisions for their children, but not in ways that harm the child. Some wacko religious cult does not give parents the authority to be above the law. It doesn't matter if your religion says it is OK for your kid to get married at 13 or smoke cigarettes at 13 - it's still illegal.

I don't know the specifics of the law regarding medical decisions but I don't see how an illiterate pre-teen brought up in an extreme belief system should be able to be allowed to die because their parents told them that God would fix the cancer. That just makes no sense. It's a crime to allow a dog to suffer without taking it to a vet - how the hell should it be OK to let a child do the same?

i am not saying it is OK... i completely agree with you... but i understand the mindset of the parents... the parents are scared... any parent in that situation would be... and when we are scared, we dont always make the best decisions... these parents are not intentionally trying to kill their child, even though it may appear that way to others... and just because we bring in the law and make things all better, does not necessarily mean we fixed the problem...

 

[JeetKuneDo]

i am not saying it is OK... i completely agree with you... but i understand the mindset of the parents... the parents are scared... any parent in that situation would be... and when we are scared, we dont always make the best decisions... these parents are not intentionally trying to kill their child, even though it may appear that way to others... and just because we bring in the law and make things all better, does not necessarily mean we fixed the problem...

Yeah, but still, this is pretty insane. I'd place it up there with parents that don't vaccinate their children and don't believe in HIV because they think both are a conspiracy by big pharma to get them to buy more drugs.

 

[Thriller]

While I believe that the kid and his parents are horribly wrong in their decision, it still makes me a little nervous when government can force treatment on a 13 year old against he and his parent's wishes. That is, unless his disability is such that he can't make such a decision for himself.

 

[Revilla]

While I believe that the kid and his parents are horribly wrong in their decision, it still makes me a little nervous when government can force treatment on a 13 year old against he and his parent's wishes. That is, unless his disability is such that he can't make such a decision for himself.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe a 13-year-old's brain is developed enough to adequately understand the consequences of such a decision. The reasoning skills just aren't there, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[engineeredout]

Its not like the kid is going to realistically die anyway and the chemo would only maybe give him an extra month, and the parents just want him to stop suffering.

They say he is ALREADY cured. These people are not winning parents of the month.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Its not like the kid is going to realistically die anyway and the chemo would only maybe give him an extra month, and the parents just want him to stop suffering.

They say he is ALREADY cured. These people are not winning parents of the month.

👍 Definitely not.

 

[badapplestix]

Idiots -_-

 

[engineeredout]

Update: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo

The mother took the kid and ran, so theres a warrent out for her. Just fantastic.

 

[Black Adder]

If this case wern't over the fate of a minor who, I'm assuming must have been brainwashed by his nutcase parents.... I would just say let natural selection take its course and eliminate these folks from the gene pool. But, seeing how this is about a 13 year old with a learning disability, I think the state has a duty to protect him and any other kid growing up with these kinds of parents.

 

[slim78]

If this case wern't over the fate of a minor who, I'm assuming must have been brainwashed by his nutcase parents.... I would just say let natural selection take its course and eliminate these folks from the gene pool. But, seeing how this is about a 13 year old with a learning disability, I think the state has a duty to protect him and any other kid growing up with these kinds of parents.

I tend to agree. The scientist in me says let him die and use him as an example the next time some other nut cases want to treat cancer with ionized water. But the daddy in me wants to protect this poor kid from ignorant parents that are about to let him die.

 

[Semicolon]

Medicine totally gets in the way of natural selection. I can't tell if that's good or bad...

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

Well if you have population control issues, it's definitely bad.

 

[Black Adder]

Medicine totally gets in the way of natural selection. I can't tell if that's good or bad...

It's good 99.9% of the time.... bad in cases like this. Ever watch the movie "Idiocracy"? That may be the future we're headed for if these people continue to breed and multiply.

 

[Semicolon]

It's good 99.9% of the time.... bad in cases like this. Ever watch the movie "Idiocracy"? That may be the future we're headed for if these people continue to breed and multiply.

Well, if we're talking about people who shouldn't breed and multiply, then unfortunately I feel that quite a large portion of the American population would fit under that criteria. 😀

 

[MJB]

Sure glad I was old enough to decide on my own to have chemo/rads for Hodgkin's. Just saw this story last night, and it did a fairly decent job of ruining my day.