Jumping Ship to Rads

[SeekerOfTheTree]

I brought this up in the rad thread before but keep debating. Been doing EM a little while and feel so crusty. How hard would it be to do rads and is it worth it? Could I work in the ED still for a few shifts? Or all this is a stupid idea.

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[namethatsmell]

Take the leap

 

[Hyperbarics]

I know a hospitalist who got burned out after a few years of practice and completed a radiology residency. He couldn’t be happier.

If you are thinking of making a change and are in a position to do so - then do it!

 

[Jabbed]

5-7 years of further training puts you conservatively at around $2 million opportunity cost. Would you be happier working part-time? Urgent care? Moving to a more desirable city?

Almost anything would be easier to do and financially more sound than going back to residency.

 

[Groove]

I brought this up in the rad thread before but keep debating. Been doing EM a little while and feel so crusty. How hard would it be to do rads and is it worth it? Could I work in the ED still for a few shifts? Or all this is a stupid idea.

Most of the times I’ve felt burned out or crusty actually have nothing to do with the specialty specifically (minus the schedule) and have more to do with medicine in general, working too many shifts and/or putting up with a malignant job environment. I’d really encourage you to do a self inventory and thoroughly analyze why you want to jump fields and why you think life would be so rosy on the other side?

4-5 years of a difficult residency with loss of income sounds like career and financial/retirement suicide. (Along with grounds for divorce if you’re married with kids) I’d look for alternate settings/environments to augment your current practice and give you a little variety and additional career satisfaction. Urgent care, telemedicine, chart review, consultant work, volunteer, medical missions, etc.. I’d also wager that if you cut back your shifts for a few months you’d likely rekindle your interest in emergency medicine.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Most of the times I’ve felt burned out or crusty actually have nothing to do with the specialty specifically (minus the schedule) and have more to do with medicine in general, working too many shifts and/or putting up with a malignant job environment. I’d really encourage you to do a self inventory and thoroughly analyze why you want to jump fields and why you think life would be so rosy on the other side?

4-5 years of a difficult residency with loss of income sounds like career and financial/retirement suicide. (Along with grounds for divorce if you’re married with kids) I’d look for alternate settings/environments to augment your current practice and give you a little variety and additional career satisfaction. Urgent care, telemedicine, chart review, consultant work, volunteer, medical missions, etc.. I’d also wager that if you cut back your shifts for a few months you’d likely rekindle your interest in emergency medicine.

Agree with the above except the "grounds for divorce" part.

If a marriage is based on one partner's job...it lacks a good foundation.

Back to the discussion at hand

 

[Porfirio]

I use to be against jumping ship because of the potential lost income. However the direction our field is going is down. It might make more financial sense to switch to Rad considering EM is headed down, and you will likely be able to work as Rad well into your 60s maybe 70s with no issues.

It would depend on how young you are right now.

 

[Dave1980]

I brought this up in the rad thread before but keep debating. Been doing EM a little while and feel so crusty. How hard would it be to do rads and is it worth it? Could I work in the ED still for a few shifts? Or all this is a stupid idea.

i remember that thread. you said you had a job making 400k a year. you are basically giving up 5 years of your life and 2 million dollars to switch from er to rads. i wouldn't do it. i think as a field rads is way better than er but not 5 years 2 million better

 

[deleted941485]

i remember that thread. you said you had a job making 400k a year. you are basically giving up 5 years of your life and 2 million dollars to switch from er to rads. i wouldn't do it. i think as a field rads is way better than er but not 5 years 2 million better

Well govt takes about 0.5 of that anyway so really you aint gonna see 2M more like 1.0M over 5 years. Plus if the trajectory is downward I would expect that opportunity cost to shrink even further. May still not be worth it to you but hey thats youre call

 

[Dave1980]

Well govt takes about 0.5 of that anyway so really you aint gonna see 2M more like 1.0M over 5 years. Plus if the trajectory is downward I would expect that opportunity cost to shrink even further. May still not be worth it to you but hey thats youre call

most rads jobs right out of fellowship wont get you 400k, i was thinking of total opportunity cost to get back to a partner in a PP or a good salary as an employed rad

 

[Dave1980]

Well govt takes about 0.5 of that anyway so really you aint gonna see 2M more like 1.0M over 5 years. Plus if the trajectory is downward I would expect that opportunity cost to shrink even further. May still not be worth it to you but hey thats youre call

it took me 3 years to get to 400+

 

[Tenk]

If you can go back to residency, you can live on ~50k a year. If you can live on ~50k a year you can work a few days a month in EM and enjoy the time off way more than doing another residency.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

most rads jobs right out of fellowship wont get you 400k, i was thinking of total opportunity cost to get back to a partner in a PP or a good salary as an employed rad

What has changed? Last time I checked, everyone made 400k+ in radiology. In fact, I was under the impression that there were more radiologists making 500+ than ones making less than 400. Perhaps things dramatically changed since last time I looked.

 

[deleted941485]

it took me 3 years to get to 400+

Seriously? That seems low and a bit on the exploitative side. But who cares, anybody making >400 is getting hit with a tax increase next year probably.

 

[maxxor]

What has changed? Last time I checked, everyone made 400k+ in radiology. In fact, I was under the impression that there were more radiologists making 500+ than ones making less than 400. Perhaps things dramatically changed since last time I looked.

Private practice partnership track pay is crap.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Pros of doing a residency
-escaping EM drudgery
-no night shifts
-Escaping burnout.. maybe

Cons
-5 years of working 60 hour weeks ( you have to study)
-living in a different area for 5 years
- going through the match
- lost income of 2 million
-making 50k and having less respect
-job market may change in 5 years so the location you’re living now may be hard to get into

Honestly doing another residency is a major decision that an attending physician shouldn’t take lightly

I would rather do MBA or open a clinic than do residency.

 

[thegenius]

I brought this up in the rad thread before but keep debating. Been doing EM a little while and feel so crusty. How hard would it be to do rads and is it worth it? Could I work in the ED still for a few shifts? Or all this is a stupid idea.

You could do rads just as easily as you could become a cardiologist, allergist, or neurosurgeon.

Go do the residency.

There is no reason why you couldn't be a 1/2 time rads + 1/2 EM doc if you are properly trained in both fields.

 

[thegenius]

Agree with the above except the "grounds for divorce" part.

If a marriage is based on one partner's job...it lacks a good foundation.

Back to the discussion at hand

I hear ya...yet I think it's true residency is potentially an enormous stress on a marriage or relationship. Especially if your spouse is not also in medicine.

 

[thegenius]

If you can go back to residency, you can live on ~50k a year. If you can live on ~50k a year you can work a few days a month in EM and enjoy the time off way more than doing another residency.

Best answer ever on this topic. Spot on. This should be stickied on the SDN EM Homepage in bold 48 font.

 

[DeadCactus]

I don't think it's a stupid idea but it's one that has to be carefully thought through.

Long-term, I doubt the finances play out to be a significant difference in quality of life either way. You have to get out of clinical medicine and into the top of the entrepreneurial or corporate pyramid if you want the kind of net-worth that actually meaningfully improves your quality of life. Trying to maintain your attending lifestyle as a resident is a fool's errand. Plan to make $60k/yr and account for it in your decision making.

The question is really what about being a radiologist makes you think it will improve your life so much to be worth another 4+ years of training and are there any short paths to that route? Overall, I'm of the opinion that we sacrifice a decade of our prime years and spend 11 years training for our job and it's dumb to let a few extra years of training be the difference between settling or getting our ideal career. But when people talk about doing a second residency, I worry the medical establishment has poisoned them into thinking that residency selection is the cause of and solution to all of life's problems. It's one thing to really want to be a radiologist and feel like you missed your calling. It's another to just be sick of dealing with emergency department patients, circadian rhythm disruptions, the superficial nature of some aspects of emergency medicine, etc.

Most people seem to fall into the latter category and would be better off finding the specific aspects of their career they find dissatisfying and then finding specific strategies to adjust for that. There may be better options than doing an entire new residency and hoping things are better on the other end.

 

[CorneliaSt]

one of the attendings at my program was an EM doc in a prior life. He is a MSK rad now and very happy. FWIW, the job market for rads is on fire right now (in a good way!). It's easy to find a job anywhere in the country right now, including the big elite coastal cities. But swallowing the pill of another 4-5 years of training would be rough.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

The “it’s only a few more years” is a bad argument. You can’t get that time back.

Also if you have a spouse it’s tough since you will be working more for half a decade making a 50k (you also have to pay taxes on this) You will put your spouse through the stresses of match and could end up away from family.

Also with residency you have to work nights and holidays for 5 years.


If money isn’t an issue you can work in urgent care and do 100k with an excellent lifestyle

I can see why that poster would say it may be grounds for divorce since you would be working more with less money change in location. Many divorce for less

 

[WilcoWorld]

Follow your principles.

If you've decided you want additional training BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO THAT THING, then do it.

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought the residency could be done in 4 years since our first year counts as intern year and I have no desire to ever do a fellowship.
- Could I work a couple of shifts a month while in residency to supplement my income is what I meant.
- I've been told radiology residency is pretty cush...am I wrong?
- I guess the main reason I want to switch is I like medicine but patients are pretty annoying and EM is in the gutter...most jobs that are good are in the middle of nowhere. We truly got screwed in this specialty. Feel like there aren't many other options for us other than working in the ED and just looking forward to the next stretch off. Right now I still work 2 weekends and half the holidays so feel nothing changes.
- 4 years without money would suck.

Anybody else just super bored with the protocolized ER medicine...sepsis order set...stroke order set...stemi order set...constipation order set...psych order set...

 

[namethatsmell]

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought the residency could be done in 4 years since our first year counts as intern year and I have no desire to ever do a fellowship.
- Could I work a couple of shifts a month while in residency to supplement my income is what I meant.
- I've been told radiology residency is pretty cush...am I wrong?
- I guess the main reason I want to switch is I like medicine but patients are pretty annoying and EM is in the gutter...most jobs that are good are in the middle of nowhere. We truly got screwed in this specialty. Feel like there aren't many other options for us other than working in the ED and just looking forward to the next stretch off. Right now I still work 2 weekends and half the holidays so feel nothing changes.
- 4 years without money would suck.

Anybody else just super bored with the protocolized ER medicine...sepsis order set...stroke order set...stemi order set...constipation order set...psych order set...

I give you a lot of credit for honestly examining your thought process and sources of unhappiness of where you're at.

A few random thoughts based on what you're saying:

-Working a couple of shifts a month in the ED during when going back to training is doable, but will require you to sacrifice other things (being with family, working out, studying your new field etc). I did this during fellowship and made some extra money, but overall I don't know if it was worth it.

-Regarding feeling like "patients are annoying" and EM as a specialty got screwed: If you are finding that you really don't like interacting with ANY patient anymore than yeah maybe stepping away from face to face care could make sense. As far as EM "in the gutter," any specialty that isn't forward facing to patients and where you can't own the place that patients show up...rads has some similarities to EM in this regard and while appears more protected than EM right now rads isn't without it's risks. Have you considered that if you enter a field where you can own your own practice...that you can decline to see/fire patients who push your buttons? Outside of the ED where there is no EMTALA, you can have much more control of who you see. If you're considering a 2nd residency, what about FM or IM or psych? Short residency, these fields are always in demand everywhere, and they have a stem-cell quality that afford you the opportunity to work in a ton of different settings. You could open up your own cash-only pp, screen your patients to only see the ones you want (who don't annoy you), and really divorce yourself from much of the worst aspects of medicine these days and have total control.

If you love rads and see yourself want to do it for many years, then just go for it. Of if you find something else that maybe makes more sense, then go for it. Any big career/life change will have obstancles, some foreseen and some unforseen. You'll figure them all out as you go along (finances etc). Just be willing to give yourself a chance and take a leap.

 

[Dave1980]

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought the residency could be done in 4 years since our first year counts as intern year and I have no desire to ever do a fellowship.

Fellowship is for all intents and purposes mandatory. You can't get board certified for like 17 months after residency. No halfway desirable job would even look at you without a fellowship. Telerad would probably take you though.

- Could I work a couple of shifts a month while in residency to supplement my income is what I meant.

You could probably do a shift every weekend you aren't on call although you really will need to study a lot more than in EM residency so you can't do nuts with it.

- I've been told radiology residency is pretty cush...am I wrong?

I'd say you are wrong. The hours are generally 8-5 although in second and third year you do a lot of overnights and weekends. Plus you have to study way more than in other fields.

- 4 years without money would suck.

yes

 

[Dave1980]

What has changed? Last time I checked, everyone made 400k+ in radiology. In fact, I was under the impression that there were more radiologists making 500+ than ones making less than 400. Perhaps things dramatically changed since last time I looked.

right out of training expecting over 400 is just not realistic. all VA is under 400, most PP associates are under 400, most entry level employed is under 400. a few years out except for the VA all rads should be over 400

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought the residency could be done in 4 years since our first year counts as intern year and I have no desire to ever do a fellowship.
- Could I work a couple of shifts a month while in residency to supplement my income is what I meant.
- I've been told radiology residency is pretty cush...am I wrong?
- I guess the main reason I want to switch is I like medicine but patients are pretty annoying and EM is in the gutter...most jobs that are good are in the middle of nowhere. We truly got screwed in this specialty. Feel like there aren't many other options for us other than working in the ED and just looking forward to the next stretch off. Right now I still work 2 weekends and half the holidays so feel nothing changes.
- 4 years without money would suck.

Anybody else just super bored with the protocolized ER medicine...sepsis order set...stroke order set...stemi order set...constipation order set...psych order set...

Based on your posts on this thread, I think this would be a terrible idea.

It sounds like you want to get out of EM a lot more than you want to get into rads. If you had a burning passion for radiology, then that would be a different story.

If you want to leave the ED but still want to see patients, there are a few ways to do that without doing more training (urgent care, workers comp, corrections, etc.).

If you want to switch fields, there are some with much shorter training (pain, palliative, sports, prev med, etc.).

If you want to leave medicine entirely, that will be a bit difficult unless you have significant experience in another field, capital to start a business, or some good connections. Consulting companies do like to just hire smart people with the right resumes, but that's often easier said than done.

Something else to consider, especially if you were ok with the financial hit of a 4-year residency, is to consider doing a master's degree (MBA, MHA, data science, etc.).

A few people I know (one halfway through residency) have done those intensive 3-4 month coding bootcamps and are now successfully working as programmers.

Anyways, if you hate the thought of going to the ED, you have a lot of options that don't involve doing 4+ years of residency.

 

[Hyperbarics]

Do you guys remember years ago when the topic of burn out in the field of EM was brought up the standard reply was:

“Burn out is something that happened to older ER docs because they hadn’t trained in Emergency Medicine. That won’t happen to doctors who complete a residency in Emergency Medicine.” Well turns out that was a lie.

At one point I was the OP and I feel for him/her. I found something else that I love. As a bonus I get to sleep at night. I feel better mentally, physically, emotionally. Seriously, don’t be afraid to make a change - there’s a lot more to life than just trying to maximize $.

 

[bravotwozero]

Is an MBA really worth the money?

 

[Rekt]

Is an MBA really worth the money?

Only to the chumps in the c suite.

 

[emergentmd]

I was in the same boat 18 yrs ago. Attending x 2 yrs, busy ER, had a really good job SDG, made above avg $$, good working environment before all the crazy metrics/CMG/Admin pressures. I still was drawn to radiology as this was my 2nd choice. Thought about changing but realized 4-5 yrs plus loss of well over 2M, putting my family not having me around much for 5 yrs, moving to another city just appeared selfish.

If you are single, go ahead. At worse you will regret it but only affect you.

If you are married or have kids, think very very hard b/c it really is a selfish decision. Imagine your wife/kids having a comfortable life and you making 400K/yr to have them move into a likely crappy city and making 60K/yr penny pinching for 4-5 yrs. On top of this not having you around.


Grass is never greener, and you likely will regret it the minute you step into a 30 hr intern shift. I know I would have great regrets b/c I have probably the best medicine job making more than a NSG and working half their hours.

 

[namethatsmell]

I was in the same boat 18 yrs ago. Attending x 2 yrs, busy ER, had a really good job SDG, made above avg $$, good working environment before all the crazy metrics/CMG/Admin pressures. I still was drawn to radiology as this was my 2nd choice. Thought about changing but realized 4-5 yrs plus loss of well over 2M, putting my family not having me around much for 5 yrs, moving to another city just appeared selfish.

If you are single, go ahead. At worse you will regret it but only affect you.

If you are married or have kids, think very very hard b/c it really is a selfish decision. Imagine your wife/kids having a comfortable life and you making 400K/yr to have them move into a likely crappy city and making 60K/yr penny pinching for 4-5 yrs. On top of this not having you around.


Grass is never greener, and you likely will regret it the minute you step into a 30 hr intern shift. I know I would have great regrets b/c I have probably the best medicine job making more than a NSG and working half their hours.

Agree with a lot of this except the bolded part. The grass can indeed be greener.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Is an MBA really worth the money?

Depends how you define "worth" (and often where you get the MBA from).

From a purely dollars perspective, it's probably only worth it if you get to a high enough level in the hospital chain or if you work in certain other fields. If you hate your job and are looking to switch into something else, it may be worth it even if you don't make as much money.

An MBA is likely the only way a typical physician is going to break into certain types of consulting, investment banking, private equity, venture capital, or high up at a big corporation (to name a few things). In this case, you really want to go to a prestigious program.

 

[emergentmd]

Agree with a lot of this except the bolded part. The grass can indeed be greener.

Mistyped. Not always greener.

I sacrificed my 20's for med school/residency. No way would I sacrifice another 4-5 yrs then go into an unknown Job Market which in medicine no one knows what happens in 4-5 yrs.

When I did residency 20 yrs ago, Radiology didn't fill and was not competitive with a not so great job market.

Imagine another 5 yrs in residency then coming into a poor job market b/c we now are in a single payer system? This is what hell would feel like

 

[Birdstrike]

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought the residency could be done in 4 years since our first year counts as intern year and I have no desire to ever do a fellowship.
- Could I work a couple of shifts a month while in residency to supplement my income is what I meant.
- I've been told radiology residency is pretty cush...am I wrong?
- I guess the main reason I want to switch is I like medicine but patients are pretty annoying and EM is in the gutter...most jobs that are good are in the middle of nowhere. We truly got screwed in this specialty. Feel like there aren't many other options for us other than working in the ED and just looking forward to the next stretch off. Right now I still work 2 weekends and half the holidays so feel nothing changes.
- 4 years without money would suck.

Anybody else just super bored with the protocolized ER medicine...sepsis order set...stroke order set...stemi order set...constipation order set...psych order set...

I'm all for the "jumping ship" part but not necessarily the "radiology residency" part. I went through this same thought process. My goal was to:

1) Jump ship,

2) Jump to something that allowed me a normal life (at true, Derm-normal life, not 'less call, less night, less weekends, less holiday," but no call, no nights, no weekends, no holidays. Ever.)

3) Do it in as little time as possible.

Pain allowed me to totally jump ship, ie, no EM every again and do it in 1 year, not 4 like radiology. Now, I work 8-4, 4 days per week and a half day friday, with truly no nights, no weekends, no holidays at all. Not less. None. And it only took me 1 year of fellowship.

Bam. Done. No EM in 10 years. Great life. Normal life.

My worry about jumping to rads is the length of residency and still having to do brutal blocks of night work my radiologist friends have, albeit not as frequent as EM.

But if it's what you need to be happy, then by all means, do it.

 

[namethatsmell]

Mistyped. Not always greener.

I sacrificed my 20's for med school/residency. No way would I sacrifice another 4-5 yrs then go into an unknown Job Market which in medicine no one knows what happens in 4-5 yrs.

When I did residency 20 yrs ago, Radiology didn't fill and was not competitive with a not so great job market.

Imagine another 5 yrs in residency then coming into a poor job market b/c we now are in a single payer system? This is what hell would feel like

Ah yes that's true. It's not always greener.

Agree with these other points. No doubt shorter time of additional training is better and markets can change wildly in a short timeframe.

I do think going into something that allows you to own your own shop that patients can directly access is a protective hedge against bigger market forces, but that's just me. And if you can go cash-only that's even more protective. On the flip side, if somebody really digs something like HPM I think that's are great way to potentially prolong one's career with a relatively short amount of additional training.

But if the OP really loves rads and is willing to accept the potential financial risk than more power to 'em.

 

[TheComebacKid]

I think whenever you cross this kind of bridge, its best to take some time, like upwards of a year, to really let it marinate before you jump ship. I agree with the grass is always greener mentality.

Rads is subject to the same sorts pressures that EM is. Right now the market might be booming. In 5-10 years, who knows. I've heard the threat of AI and tele-rads overseas is not a real thing, but there is definitely talks of midlevel encroachment in radiology. Radiologists are pressured to read studies. LOTS of studies, and to read them fast. So much of ED disposition is predicated on radiology reads. I can't imagine how much pressure these guys have, topped off with the fact that they can't really miss stuff and if they do, it can cause catastrophic issues for the patient.

There are burned out radiologists. Just like the patients keep coming, the studies keep piling up. The threat of litigation is very real. The pressure to read more studies, faster, and as a result possibly miss stuff, is also a thing.

I vote that you should diversify your EM career a bit. Maybe do a fellowship. Change the group you work for. Take time off. Work at an urgent care. But doing another residency, plus that god forsake pre-lim year that rads folks have to do (although I'm not sure if you could somehow get out of it because of your EM training), just sounds like self inflicted torture.

 

[thegenius]

I think whenever you cross this kind of bridge, its best to take some time, like upwards of a year, to really let it marinate before you jump ship. I agree with the grass is always greener mentality.

Rads is subject to the same sorts pressures that EM is. Right now the market might be booming. In 5-10 years, who knows. I've heard the threat of AI and tele-rads overseas is not a real thing, but there is definitely talks of midlevel encroachment in radiology. Radiologists are pressured to read studies. LOTS of studies, and to read them fast. So much of ED disposition is predicated on radiology reads. I can't imagine how much pressure these guys have, topped off with the fact that they can't really miss stuff and if they do, it can cause catastrophic issues for the patient.

There are burned out radiologists. Just like the patients keep coming, the studies keep piling up. The threat of litigation is very real. The pressure to read more studies, faster, and as a result possibly miss stuff, is also a thing.

I vote that you should diversify your EM career a bit. Maybe do a fellowship. Change the group you work for. Take time off. Work at an urgent care. But doing another residency, plus that god forsake pre-lim year that rads folks have to do (although I'm not sure if you could somehow get out of it because of your EM training), just sounds like self inflicted torture.

Really? You mean like a PA who just has knowledge of MSK xrays and that's all the read? Seems like it would be hard to have a PA education over two years to read some stuff in Radiology but not everything. It seems like an all-or-none field.

 

[maxxor]

Really? You mean like a PA who just has knowledge of MSK xrays and that's all the read? Seems like it would be hard to have a PA education over two years to read some stuff in Radiology but not everything. It seems like an all-or-none field.

We aren’t saying they’d be any good at it, but there are forces (boomers) pushing hard for mid level interpretation.

 

[Rekt]

We aren’t saying they’d be any good at it, but there are forces (boomers) pushing hard for mid level interpretation.

It just doesn't make sense. A low level provider won't make it any faster if a rad still has to over read. What does it take rads to read x-rays. 5-10 seconds? There's no place for low levels in rads.

 

[TheComebacKid]

It just doesn't make sense. A low level provider won't make it any faster if a rad still has to over read. What does it take rads to read x-rays. 5-10 seconds? There's no place for low levels in rads.

It takes you way less time to dispo a patient than it takes a midlevel. Yet they still exist in EM. They cost less, and so they will always have a role.

Maybe they will read simple XRs, and the attending will sign off on them in the morning, similar to how it is with residents at academic centers. They already are part of some interventional teams, rounding on patients pre/post procedure. I've called them for nephrostomy tube exchange multiple times, and spoken with a midlevel. If they are putting in central lines and arterial lines in the ICUs, I'm sure they will start doing more IR guided procedures.

I really don't think any specialty is immune.

 

[Bea5T]

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought the residency could be done in 4 years since our first year counts as intern year and I have no desire to ever do a fellowship.
- Could I work a couple of shifts a month while in residency to supplement my income is what I meant.
- I've been told radiology residency is pretty cush...am I wrong?
- I guess the main reason I want to switch is I like medicine but patients are pretty annoying and EM is in the gutter...most jobs that are good are in the middle of nowhere. We truly got screwed in this specialty. Feel like there aren't many other options for us other than working in the ED and just looking forward to the next stretch off. Right now I still work 2 weekends and half the holidays so feel nothing changes.
- 4 years without money would suck.

Anybody else just super bored with the protocolized ER medicine...sepsis order set...stroke order set...stemi order set...constipation order set...psych order set...

Fellowship is required for rads. Over 95% of residents do one.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Have to consider the $$$ side and the personal satisfaction side. Also remember Private Equity is deep in Rads and getting worse. So dont think there wont be pressure on their income. IR is moving MLP heavy. AI while perhaps not soon will push things as well.

 

[Manatee3]

try signing up for MRI online- see if it's interesting to you before you commit to changing careers.

 

[emergentmd]

I am looking into the future and seeing that it is not rosy for Rad or really any other medical field. I can see this happening in the near future.

Step 1 - Why do you need a radiologist to read basic plain xrays? Lets get an NP to read them, and the Radiologist over reads it. So if a radiologist can read and dictate a plain film in 5 minutes, then 5 NPs/PAs can read/dictate a film in 10 minutes. Thus 5 NPs=2.5 Rads. A radiologist would just verify similar to a pharmacist. There goes 25-50% of the jobs. I read my own xrays in the ER and rarely wait for a radiologist so not far fetch.

Step 2 - CMG Radiology residencies keeps popping up and supplying more radiologists. Flood the market and lower rates

Step 3 - CMS lowers read rates and private insurance follows suit.

I can see their field being in as much trouble as EM.

I would never go back to residency unless I really hate EM and love the new field knowing that I would be happy to work longer hours for less than I make now in EM.

Many EM docs still make 3-400/yr working 120-140hrs/month. It really isn't that bad.

 

[RADRULES]

Rads is a good field and has served me well. Few points:

Rads has benefited from a massive increase in imaging utilization over the last 10 - 15 years. This has, however, increased volumes and work hours a ton. Sure, this has increased income also but Rads is no longer a lifestyle field and burnout is a real issue.

Mid-level have not made inroads into imaging interpretation because it’s actually hard. It takes a lot of experience to get good at it which means reading a lot of volume for years and years. Chest X-rays are very challenging to read believe it or not., there is a lot of miss.
There may be some encroachment in the future in low level procedures like slinging barium and para / thora etc but honestly those are barely worth a Rads time.

CMG can’t open a Rad residency easily. In fact, it is difficult to open a new residency or even expand a residency. This is because certain areas of Rad, namely mammo, is highly regulated by the government.

AI is an unknown. I feel the likelihood it replaces Rads is pretty low. But it could potential decrease demand if it increases efficiency. Of course, increased efficiency will at first help Rads earn more, but eventually it could hurt demand for our services…. We will see.



Overall, Rads remains a good field but no longer easy street and the workload is high and mentally taxing. Still, for someone like me who discovered during 3rd yr that clinical medicine was not for me, it’s a good choice. Giving up $2M to go back and do Rads it a tough one, that’s a lot of money.

 

[Taurus]

Step 1 - Why do you need a radiologist to read basic plain xrays? Lets get an NP to read them, and the Radiologist over reads it. So if a radiologist can read and dictate a plain film in 5 minutes, then 5 NPs/PAs can read/dictate a film in 10 minutes. Thus 5 NPs=2.5 Rads. A radiologist would just verify similar to a pharmacist. There goes 25-50% of the jobs. I read my own xrays in the ER and rarely wait for a radiologist so not far fetch.

Lol. 😂 Um, no. I’ve posted a lot about why radiology is in no danger of midlevel encroachment. Just do a search to find my explanations.

 

[sylvanthus]

Lol. 😂 Um, no. I’ve posted a lot about why radiology is in no danger of midlevel encroachment. Just do a search to find my explanations.

If anything, midlevels will help rads. Im sure Nps and PAs wont overorder imaging studies….

 

[maxxor]

If anything, midlevels will help rads. Im sure Nps and PAs wont overorder imaging studies….

midlevels in other fields is what’s led to the current radiology job market craziness.