GiladJaffe

Removed
Mar 14, 2010
31
0
0
Status
So
They do consider which school you go to. If you have a 4.0 at SDSU its not = to a 4.0 and CAL (this is what he said). He said in my case, a 3.52 at CAL~3.72 and a state school or even UCI/UCR and UCM and UCSB. He said there is no "formal" calculation for this boost but this is how his committee views this issue.
 

bravofleet4

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 17, 2009
730
0
91
Status
Medical Student
so what you're effectively saying is that medical schools differentiate b/w 4-year institutions and community colleges. that's not really surprising. i also wouldn't blow this out of proportion and say that if you did go to SDSU alone your chances of getting into medical school will be much worse than anyone with the same GPA going to UCSD since GPA is only one factor in the admissions process.

also BTW UCI rocks. don't knock half of the UC's down without expecting people to start defending their schools!!!! :mad: I mean what do you mean "even UCI/UCR"? I don't think it's easier to get good grades there versus UCSD.
 

bannie22

Hero
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2009
3,693
1,105
181
So
They do consider which school you go to. If you have a 4.0 at SDSU its not = to a 4.0 and CAL (this is what he said). He said in my case, a 3.52 at CAL~3.72 and a state school or even UCI/UCR and UCM and UCSB. He said there is no "formal" calculation for this boost but this is how his committee views this issue.
Quite obvious.
 

bannie22

Hero
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2009
3,693
1,105
181
This is a key statement. It applies to that one school alone.
Cat, but you would agree that a 3.7 state is looked upon differently as a 3.7 ivy.

I think as humans we automatically would categorize, and no matter how hard we might try to put them into the same basket, thats more of a controlled cognitive process. And in reality, 3.7 ivy would probably be a better student academically, and also better for the md school to accept (~prestige-y like for the school)

I dont believe schools treat all schools equally.
Nothing is absolutely equal in life.

:D
 
Sep 4, 2006
30,590
10,411
281
Inside the tesseract
I think that every adcomm has their own way of viewing things and that it's impossible to make a generalization that's true across the board. "Prestige" and "perception of prestige" are impossible to quantitate. What you think of as a big name school, I may never have heard of on my side of the country.

University of Michigan is a state school. It it viewed as less rigorous than an Ivy that is notorious for grade inflation? I doubt it. (Just one example.)

If you want to talk "prestige," let's discuss Northwestern, which is a huge name in my part of the world, but probably barely known in California and New York (except to you, bannie).
 

bannie22

Hero
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2009
3,693
1,105
181
Yep. I agree with that.
Cat :( I am so sad :( I actually NEVER HEARD OF NORTHWESTERN till I checked them off on my AMCAS.

But what I'm suggesting is that, NO school A and school B are ever viewed equally by adcoms.

Diff adcoms will view each school differently, but your undergrad school will have a definite effect on your application.
 

GiladJaffe

Removed
Mar 14, 2010
31
0
0
Status
I completely agree and this is what i was saying. Im not saying UCI is bad, but im sorry to say, it is easier to get a high GPA there than at UCSD, UCLA or CAL. Theres just no way around it. Their professors are not at the same par and their grading scales are not either... He also said UCLA and UCB are considered Tier 1 with stanford and Ivys
 

bravofleet4

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 17, 2009
730
0
91
Status
Medical Student
lol even if that were true (which I disagree) how would you even quantify the difference? a 3.6 at UCSD ~ 3.7 at UCI? it's absurd. the best you can do is everything else being equal then you choose the candidate from the more prestigious school. however, that scenario is very rare. Also according to your own words, UCLA and UCB are Tier 1 but not UCSD. It's not like UCSD is Tier 2.5. I imagine it's just grouped up with the other UC's.
 

GiladJaffe

Removed
Mar 14, 2010
31
0
0
Status
UCB, UCLA =Tier 1 (along with ivys)
UCSD=tier II
UCSB,UCI=Tier 3
UCR=Tier 4

below UCM

This is what adcom from UCSD said... and no not all else being equal. a 3.6 is not as easy to get at CAL as it is at UCR/UCI. To get into CAL, there was much more selection for higher scores hence the larger number of very smart ppl.
 
Mar 10, 2010
948
0
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Man I think it's just how hardcore the students are at schools if anything. Cal has too many gunners probably who sabotage and aren't friendly. UCI is more relaxed probably and not as many gunners. I'm sure every school is hard in it's own way. If the med schools have their own way of looking at UCI vs UCLA vs UCSB vs Cal etc. well I guess that's what they do/have to do.
 

Legacy87

10+ Year Member
Mar 7, 2009
180
0
241
California
Status
Medical Student
I guess no matter how hard I worked at UCI, my gpa will only be a "3.7" in their eyes. O well
 
Mar 28, 2010
16
0
0
Oklahoma
Status
Pre-Medical
Though they may take into consideration the quality of education at different schools, I would think the MCAT is the great equalizer. For example, if you received a 4.0 at a state school with an MCAT score of 40T, you most likely have more of an edge than someone who earned a 3.9 with an MCAT score of 36S at an ivy league school. However, I attend a state school, so maybe I'm just trying to reassure myself...
 

bravofleet4

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 17, 2009
730
0
91
Status
Medical Student
what is UCSD's reputation outside of CA? I doubt that OOS schools keep a similar tier system for Cali schools. I also highly doubt they would put UCLA and Berkeley with IVY's. They're world-renowned that's for sure. However, if we're talking about competitiveness, even if I got accepted to both of them (for undergrad)...
 

drizzt3117

chick magnet
10+ Year Member
Oct 29, 2006
14,647
29
251
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Though they may take into consideration the quality of education at different schools, I would think the MCAT is the great equalizer. For example, if you received a 4.0 at a state school with an MCAT score of 40T, you most likely have more of an edge than someone who earned a 3.9 with an MCAT score of 36S at an ivy league school. However, I attend a state school, so maybe I'm just trying to reassure myself...
So much misinformation in this thread...

We can summarize things like this

1) adcoms are human beings who have human reactions to things they see. I have my own ideas about what schools are more competitive, someone with a different background might have a different idea. There's no hard and fast rule for the competitiveness of undergrad institutions. That said, the University of Chicago, Berkeley, Hopkins, MIT, Caltech, Cornell, and Penn are generally seen as being more academically rigorous than other schools although they aren't weighed equally, of course. After that, there are a group of other schools including other Ivys, Stanford, UCLA, Michigan, Northwestern,others few other top LACs and select state schools. Again there's generally a bit of variation here.

2)As far as those hypothetical candidates go? You have no idea how adcoms will evaluate them, but both will likely do just fine in admissions.
 
Mar 10, 2010
948
0
0
Status
Pre-Medical
man honestly just to get the highest gpa you can get. that's it. they'll be impressed by that unless it's at some super small no name school.
 

surftheiop

10+ Year Member
Dec 4, 2008
1,940
27
0
Status
So much misinformation in this thread...

We can summarize things like this

1) adcoms are human beings who have human reactions to things they see. I have my own ideas about what schools are more competitive, someone with a different background might have a different idea. There's no hard and fast rule for the competitiveness of undergrad institutions. That said, the University of Chicago, Berkeley, Hopkins, MIT, Caltech, Cornell, and Penn are generally seen as being more academically rigorous than other schools although they aren't weighed equally, of course. After that, there are a group of other schools including other Ivys, Stanford, UCLA, Michigan, Northwestern,others few other top LACs and select state schools. Again there's generally a bit of variation here.

2)As far as those hypothetical candidates go? You have no idea how adcoms will evaluate them, but both will likely do just fine in admissions.
Why didnt you put H/Y/P on that list? (I'm from Cornell so I'm not offended, but pretty sure that H/Y/P are the most prestigious schools around)
 
Mar 11, 2010
947
9
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Why didnt you put H/Y/P on that list? (I'm from Cornell so I'm not offended, but pretty sure that H/Y/P are the most prestigious schools around)
Because everybody knows that 99.9% of the grades at Ivies and Stanford are A- or above. DUH!
 

drizzt3117

chick magnet
10+ Year Member
Oct 29, 2006
14,647
29
251
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Why didnt you put H/Y/P on that list? (I'm from Cornell so I'm not offended, but pretty sure that H/Y/P are the most prestigious schools around)
The list isn't based on prestige, it's based on academic rigor. You might make an argument Princeton is pretty rigorous academically, but Harvard and Yale have too much grade inflation to qualify for the most academically rigorous institutions. Someone posted a scale one of the top 10 adcoms used to gauge academic rigor and I believe only 5 schools got the highest grade of 5, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, University of Chicago, and Hopkins, but I was being a little more generous with my list. If I recall correctly, when Larry Summers became president of Harvard, he tried to fight grade inflation and one of the examples he cited was the average GPA for all students at Harvard one year being 3.92...
 

drizzt3117

chick magnet
10+ Year Member
Oct 29, 2006
14,647
29
251
Status
Resident [Any Field]
How do they account for engineering majors?
The quick answer, is that they don't really account for the rigor of the major. You will get 0 forgiveness if you get below a 3.3 cGPA with an engineering degree more or less no matter where you get it. That said, if you go to one of the schools considered most rigorous, and are in a difficult engineering major, you might get a little consideration. I went to a top 5 school that's well known for engineering that's in Boston, and was a chemical engineering major, and my GPA after postbac was pretty good (~3.7) but from what I can tell, schools seemed to evaluate me based on if it were ~3.9, so it helps a little bit, but not if you're not competitive to start with.
 

surftheiop

10+ Year Member
Dec 4, 2008
1,940
27
0
Status
The quick answer, is that they don't really account for the rigor of the major. You will get 0 forgiveness if you get below a 3.3 cGPA with an engineering degree more or less no matter where you get it. That said, if you go to one of the schools considered most rigorous, and are in a difficult engineering major, you might get a little consideration. I went to a top 5 school that's well known for engineering that's in Boston, and was a chemical engineering major, and my GPA after postbac was pretty good (~3.7) but from what I can tell, schools seemed to evaluate me based on if it were ~3.9, so it helps a little bit, but not if you're not competitive to start with.
Did you go into MIT knowing you wanted to be a physician or have some sort of "realization"? I always figured to be the type of person who gets into MIT you would need to have your soul set on being an engineer or hard-science PhD
 

drizzt3117

chick magnet
10+ Year Member
Oct 29, 2006
14,647
29
251
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Did you go into MIT knowing you wanted to be a physician or have some sort of "realization"? I always figured to be the type of person who gets into MIT you would need to have your soul set on being an engineer or hard-science PhD
Actually I went into ibanking right out of ug, it was a crazy but fun time to be on wall street. I didn't decide to go back into medicine until a number of years later when I was consulting for health care companies.
 

LuciusVorenus

Bad Medicine
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 14, 2009
2,952
614
181
Status
Medical Student
I completely agree and this is what i was saying. Im not saying UCI is bad, but im sorry to say, it is easier to get a high GPA there than at UCSD, UCLA or CAL. Theres just no way around it. Their professors are not at the same par and their grading scales are not either... He also said UCLA and UCB are considered Tier 1 with stanford and Ivys
All UCs typically use the same grading scale. 17% As, 30% Bs, etc. Furthermore, undergraduate rankings are COMPLETELY useless, more so than any other kind of ranking, because they're ranking every single department in the university together. For example, I know really smart kids who were rejected from UCSDs engineering program but really medicore kids who got into other UCSD programs (same with UCB and UCLA). The prestige/difficulty of acceptance at these schools rely in large part on what major you pick, and that's something adcoms would never be able to differentiate between. Unless they for some reason have A LOT of spare time. Yes, to some extent (ie Harvard vs. a state school no one has ever heard of) it does matter, but to suggest that there is that large of a difference between UCSD and UCSB or UCI so as to "add" .2 to your GPA is just ridiculous. I can gaurantee you that an engineering/physical science major is in a program with more academic "rigor" compared to a humanities major at UCSD (not hating on humanities, just taking into account the number of science classes, curves for classes, number of units per quarter, etc).
 
Last edited:

RogueUnicorn

rawr.
7+ Year Member
Jul 15, 2009
9,746
1,595
181
Status
Resident [Any Field]
The list isn't based on prestige, it's based on academic rigor. You might make an argument Princeton is pretty rigorous academically, but Harvard and Yale have too much grade inflation to qualify for the most academically rigorous institutions. Someone posted a scale one of the top 10 adcoms used to gauge academic rigor and I believe only 5 schools got the highest grade of 5, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, University of Chicago, and Hopkins, but I was being a little more generous with my list. If I recall correctly, when Larry Summers became president of Harvard, he tried to fight grade inflation and one of the examples he cited was the average GPA for all students at Harvard one year being 3.92...
link?
 

RogueUnicorn

rawr.
7+ Year Member
Jul 15, 2009
9,746
1,595
181
Status
Resident [Any Field]
what was the thread generally about? do you recall the title? searching "academic rigor" has fairly poor yield because of volume..
 

drizzt3117

chick magnet
10+ Year Member
Oct 29, 2006
14,647
29
251
Status
Resident [Any Field]
what was the thread generally about? do you recall the title? searching "academic rigor" has fairly poor yield because of volume..
I have no idea, it was 3 years ago.