PhD/PsyD Just a thread to post the weirdest/whackiest/dumbest mental health-related stuff you come across in the (social) media...

[WisNeuro]

He's more of a "pundit" than a real researcher.

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[R. Matey]

He's more of a "pundit" than a real researcher.

Of the Jordan Peterson variety, it seems.

 

[WisNeuro]

Of the Jordan Peterson variety, it seems.

But instead of catering to incels, he caters to data-hating psychoanalysts.

 

[The Cinnabon]

But instead of catering to incels, he caters to data-hating psychoanalysts.

Data-hating in general

I've seen him pop up in some psychotherapy leftists spaces, hence why I've heard his name, which has been invaded by anti-scientific sentiments and baseless criticisms. I say this as someone who is an admitted political radical, but you're not inspiring radical change by eschewing legitimate scientific inquiry.

 

[WisNeuro]

Data-hating in general

I've seen him pop up in some psychotherapy leftists spaces, hence why I've heard his name, which has been invaded by anti-scientific sentiments and baseless criticisms. I say this as someone who is an admitted political radical, but you're not inspiring radical change by eschewing legitimate scientific inquiry.

Don't you know, "science" is just a tool by the man to keep people in their place in this late-stage capitalistic hellscape!

Those psychotherapy leftists spaces are essentially just absurd caricatures.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Shedler is funny because he basically pushes the POV that "psychoanalysis/psychodynamics achieve(s) equivalent outcomes to cognitive-behavioral therapies," but he can only make that statement by ignoring all the clinical populations for which there are specifically-efficacious treatments (I've already mentioned some earlier, but, e.g., CBT-P for psychosis, DBT for BPD, CPT/PE/CBT-TF for PTSD, ExRP for OCD, and exposure therapies for most anxiety disorders). It's basically the equivalent of saying "psychoanalysis works just as well as CBT if you just throw out 85% of the diagnostic categories and only focus on depression, mild anxiety, and adjustment disorders." It's also maddening that he doesn't seem to really care about theoretical/mechanistic validity at all. Like, sure, let me grant that psychoanalysis is equivalent to CBT for treating depression...are you seriously telling me the psychoanalytic theory behind depression is as empirically valid as the cognitive-behavioral theory, and that choosing to use a theoretically unfalsifiable model is somehow not ethically problematic?

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Y'all, I just saw a post on r/therapists where a person is asking people to fund them traveling to Florida in the aftermath of Hurricane Milton so they can use their EMDR training with survivors.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Y'all, I just saw a post on r/therapists where a person is asking people to fund them traveling to Florida in the aftermath of Hurricane Milton so they can use their EMDR training with survivors.

Sigh. This person would be better off getting some EMS training and doing something actually useful.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Sigh. This person would be better off getting some EMS training and doing something actually useful.

After hurricane Katrina hit, a few local coworker psychologists were trying to get (shame?) me into joining them on a sponsored trip down to New Orleans to provide 'crisis counseling' to the survivors in the immediate aftermath, pro bono. Of course, I did the proverbial 'flatulence in church' thing by citing the literature on, if anything, the iatrogenic effects of 'critical incident debriefing' therapies. The points I was trying to make were:

1) most of these people are currently distressed primarily due to being suddenly homeless, dehydrated, food-deprived, etc., therefore,

2) even as psychologists, we'd be more useful doing stuff like handing out bottles of water, cooking meals for them, delivering supplies...pretty much anything but trying to deliver 'psychotherapy services' to them in that context and furthermore,

3) our actual impact, if any, would be getting in the way of all the folks down there trying to implement the genuinely helpful tasks outlined under #2), above

 

[WisNeuro]

Sigh. This person would be better off getting some EMS training and doing something actually useful.

This person is apparently not aware of the potential of significant iatrogenic damage (see the debacle of early CISD).

 

[smalltownpsych]

The wacky stuff I am hearing lately come from practicum students in counseling programs. Here ar a couple of examples I heard the other day, One instructor stated that toddlers should never be told no. Not sure how that would work or even why we should attempt this, maybe we shouldn’t train our dogs with no either? Another stated to the students that third graders that were caught masturbating at a school should be told they should use lube. Didn’t even comment or discuss reasons why kids that age might be engaging in sexualized behaviors or how a clinician would want to try to assess or intervene with potential underlying factors. This second one made me question if there was any ethical issues to be addressed if this instructor is actually working with kids.

 

[Sanman]

The wacky stuff I am hearing lately come from practicum students in counseling programs. Here ar a couple of examples I heard the other day, One instructor stated that toddlers should never be told no. Not sure how that would work or even why we should attempt this, maybe we shouldn’t train our dogs with no either? Another stated to the students that third graders that were caught masturbating at a school should be told they should use lube. Didn’t even comment or discuss reasons why kids that age might be engaging in sexualized behaviors or how a clinician would want to try to assess or intervene with potential underlying factors. This second one made me question if there was any ethical issues to be addressed if this instructor is actually working with kids.

No one tell my toddler that. 'No' is one of her favorite words.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The wacky stuff I am hearing lately come from practicum students in counseling programs. Here ar a couple of examples I heard the other day, One instructor stated that toddlers should never be told no. Not sure how that would work or even why we should attempt this, maybe we shouldn’t train our dogs with no either? Another stated to the students that third graders that were caught masturbating at a school should be told they should use lube. Didn’t even comment or discuss reasons why kids that age might be engaging in sexualized behaviors or how a clinician would want to try to assess or intervene with potential underlying factors. This second one made me question if there was any ethical issues to be addressed if this instructor is actually working with kids.

It's social media, but I saw a video recently about a Millennial parent trying to get the Boomer grandparent to understand Millennial parenting methods. It was obviously meant as comedy, but some of the things mentioned are similar to what you're describing (e.g., never saying "no" or "be careful"). Being completely removed from any child work clinically, I'd had no idea there were these sorts of parenting methods/advisements catching on.

 

[chicandtoughness]

I am a millennial and I am appalled at this behavior.

As much as we like to pretend children don't learn via behaviorism, alas, they do. Telling them "no" to things you don't want them to do, and encouraging the things you do want them to do, is just a fact of parenting.

 

[Sanman]

It's social media, but I saw a video recently about a Millennial parent trying to get the Boomer grandparent to understand Millennial parenting methods. It was obviously meant as comedy, but some of the things mentioned are similar to what you're describing (e.g., never saying "no" or "be careful"). Being completely removed from any child work clinically, I'd had no idea there were these sorts of parenting methods/advisements catching on.

I am a millennial and I am appalled at this behavior.

As much as we like to pretend children don't learn via behaviorism, alas, they do. Telling them "no" to things you don't want them to do, and encouraging the things you do want them to do, is just a fact of parenting.

Best to not communicate intentions with the small children. Perhaps a mild shock until they get the hint. In the event that you don't have a shock collar handy, maybe beat them about the head with a soup ladle.

 

[R. Matey]

As much as we like to pretend children don't learn via behaviorism, alas, they do. Telling them "no" to things you don't want them to do, and encouraging the things you do want them to do, is just a fact of parenting.

You should check out John Watson's book on parenting from a classic behaviorist perspective sometime. It run past this advice in a simultaneously humorous and appalling way.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

The wacky stuff I am hearing lately come from practicum students in counseling programs. Here ar a couple of examples I heard the other day, One instructor stated that toddlers should never be told no. Not sure how that would work or even why we should attempt this, maybe we shouldn’t train our dogs with no either? Another stated to the students that third graders that were caught masturbating at a school should be told they should use lube. Didn’t even comment or discuss reasons why kids that age might be engaging in sexualized behaviors or how a clinician would want to try to assess or intervene with potential underlying factors. This second one made me question if there was any ethical issues to be addressed if this instructor is actually working with kids.

Aaaaaand this is how far things have swung, pendulum-wise over the course of my career.

As an early career psychologist 20 years ago, the director of psychology was joking (privately among the three of us--the director, me, and another more senior psychologist):

"You hear that, [Fan_of_Meehl], Dr. X never got his a22 whupped growing up...that's what's wrong with him!" (joking, smiling). It was made after Dr. X had disclosed that he'd never been spanked growing up (he was from 'up North') but the director and I had shared that--though we were certainly never 'abused' growing up--we had experienced 'paddling' at school and (rare) 'spankings' at home and that this had still been common/normative in Southern culture when we were young.

Now, rapport was high among the three of us and this was said jokingly (and in private) and was more of a male-bonding practice of taking gentle 'jabs' at one another (especially folks you liked or admired). We weren't serious and weren't advocating for corporal punishment (as psychologists).

But the idea that children should 'never be told no' is just inconceivable.

Teaching your kids the (implicit) lesson that the world (and other people) shouldn't or won't ever tell them 'no' is a form of parental neglect and it's a training program for adult infants. They're not gonna be very happy or successful in life.

 

[SchoolPsycho]

Aaaaaand this is how far things have swung, pendulum-wise over the course of my career.

As an early career psychologist 20 years ago, the director of psychology was joking (privately among the three of us--the director, me, and another more senior psychologist):

"You hear that, [Fan_of_Meehl], Dr. X never got his a22 whupped growing up...that's what's wrong with him!" (joking, smiling). It was made after Dr. X had disclosed that he'd never been spanked growing up (he was from 'up North') but the director and I had shared that--though we were certainly never 'abused' growing up--we had experienced 'paddling' at school and (rare) 'spankings' at home and that this had still been common/normative in Southern culture when we were young.

Now, rapport was high among the three of us and this was said jokingly (and in private) and was more of a male-bonding practice of taking gentle 'jabs' at one another (especially folks you liked or admired). We weren't serious and weren't advocating for corporal punishment (as psychologists).

But the idea that children should 'never be told no' is just inconceivable.

Teaching your kids the (implicit) lesson that the world (and other people) shouldn't or won't ever tell them 'no' is a form of parental neglect and it's a training program for adult infants. They're not gonna be very happy or successful in life.

It is the same in schools - I recently gave a training to a group of schools on how to say no and setting healthy boundaries with students. Feedback ranged form "Are you sure we are allowed to do that?" to "I can't believe the district would let you do this session." Content of my session included such advanced and controversial methods as preteach expectations, redirect when expectations are not followed, and have a plan to follow through on consequences if the behavior continues.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

It is the same in schools - I recently gave a training to a group of schools on how to say no and setting healthy boundaries with students. Feedback ranged form "Are you sure we are allowed to do that?" to "I can't believe the district would let you do this session." Content of my session included such advanced and controversial methods as preteach expectations, redirect when expectations are not followed, and have a plan to follow through on consequences if the behavior continues.

As Timothy Vollmer says, "punishment happens (like the wind and rain)."

The universe says "no" near continuously without even the need for a human "oppressor" to inflict the "no."

The will to say, "I'm gonna jump off that ledge and fly!!!" will lose its argument with gravity...

Every. Single. Time.

Limitations on our will/power and our ability to unilaterally exert it on the world (and others) literally represent the boundaries of the self in context.

Without limitations, the individual ceases to exist.

Without 'no,' we cannot possibly mature or learn.

Kids need boundaries/structure--either socially imposed or natural--and actually seek them out and find them reassuring.

They constantly survey and check the boundaries in order to orient themselves.

 

[Sanman]

As Timothy Vollmer says, "punishment happens (like the wind and rain)."

The universe says "no" near continuously without even the need for a human "oppressor" to inflict the "no."

The will to say, "I'm gonna jump off that ledge and fly!!!" will lose its argument with gravity...

Every. Single. Time.

Limitations on our will/power and our ability to unilaterally exert it on the world (and others) literally represent the boundaries of the self in context.

Without limitations, the individual ceases to exist.

Without 'no,' we cannot possibly mature or learn.

Kids need boundaries/structure--either socially imposed or natural--and actually seek them out and find them reassuring.

They constantly survey and check the boundaries in order to orient themselves.

All of this is to say nothing of their enrichment in others areas, such as vocabulary. What do these folks suggest you do when the child asks what the opposite of "yes" is?

 

[chicandtoughness]

You should check out John Watson's book on parenting from a classic behaviorist perspective sometime. It run past this advice in a simultaneously humorous and appalling way.

I know exactly which book you're talking about 🤣 (I actually did a lil paper on the 1920s modernist trend of "children as little adults" back in my college days). It is a gem.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Best to not communicate intentions with the small children. Perhaps a mild shock until they get the hint. In the event that you don't have a shock collar handy, maybe beat them about the head with a soup ladle.

The video I referenced (which, again, was comedic) gave the solution that instead of saying "be careful," you should ask, "what's your plan?" Seems a bit...much.

Sort of like asking your 3 month old if it's okay to touch/hold them. Who knows, maybe I'm off-base.

 

[Sanman]

The video I referenced (which, again, was comedic) gave the solution that instead of saying "be careful," you should ask, "what's your plan?" Seems a bit...much.

Sort of like asking your 3 month old if it's okay to touch/hold them. Who knows, maybe I'm off-base.

What happens when their plan is destruction of other people's property or...say...staying up as late as possible and then waking mommy and daddy up by jumping on them while they are sleeping and screaming loudly in the middle of the night because you want to play (asking for a currently very tired friend....ok, it is me)?

 

[chicandtoughness]

"What's your plan" is hilarious 😂

3 year old me was convinced she could have Frosted Flakes for lunch, go out and slay some dragons in the backyard for an afternoon, and eat a family size bag of Skittles for dinner while watching the same Disney movie 5 times in a row.

Never let a 3 year old plan anything.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

"What's your plan" is hilarious 😂

3 year old me was convinced she could have Frosted Flakes for lunch, go out and slay some dragons in the backyard for an afternoon, and eat a family size bag of Skittles for dinner while watching the same Disney movie 5 times in a row.

Never let a 3 year old plan anything.

Sounds like a good plan for my weekend (minus the Disney movie)

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

The video I referenced (which, again, was comedic) gave the solution that instead of saying "be careful," you should ask, "what's your plan?" Seems a bit...much.

Sort of like asking your 3 month old if it's okay to touch/hold them. Who knows, maybe I'm off-base.

I saw that reel and my husband and I were both like... we're with the boomers on this one.

I do think it was meant to be more comedic than I took it, but unfortunately we've already seen our neighbors do similar things, like apologize to their toddler for picking them up without their consent during a tantrum.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I saw that reel and my husband and I were both like... we're with the boomers on this one.

I do think it was meant to be more comedic than I took it, but unfortunately we've already seen our neighbors do similar things, like apologize to their toddler for picking them up without their consent during a tantrum.

Apologizing for picking the toddler up without their consent during a tantrum.

Man, I wish this was satire.

Serious question: is there ANY known human culture in all of history (besides ours...at this particular bizarre juncture in time) for which the societal/cultural norm for parents would be to be fearful of picking their toddler up "without their consent" during a tantrum?

I mean, even if there was a historical precedent for such a culture, it wouldn't have survi---....wait a minute...I think I answered my own question.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I saw that reel and my husband and I were both like... we're with the boomers on this one.

I do think it was meant to be more comedic than I took it, but unfortunately we've already seen our neighbors do similar things, like apologize to their toddler for picking them up without their consent during a tantrum.

Yep, this is a thing I've seen on a decent number of parenting-type blogs/sites--the idea that you should ask your child's permission for most things, including just about anything that involves touching them. Even if they aren't verbal yet, you should ask and see if they're receptive. Not sure where it came from; maybe an offspring of Montessori methods...?

But yeah, I'm not going to ask permission every time I need to change a diaper.

 

[The Cinnabon]

How are master's level therapists finding so much of BVDK's work? I straight up didn't know who the guy was until I was in my VA post-bacc and cannot for the life of me find out how his marketing is so pervasive?

I, perhaps incorrectly, suspect that less empirically based folks are just far more attracted to neat theories that somehow tie up everything, whereas the "actual" forefront of a majority of our fields tend to be very messy and not conducive for effective marketing.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Seeking consent for engaging in sexual behavior which is appropriate being broadened to parent/child interactions is just so bizarre. Along the same lines, child abuse has been equated with any type of disciplinary actions. Some of this is because we don’t have an easy or maybe even any way way of stopping abusive behaviors.
One example that sticks out for me is a former coworker who several times touched me without my consent in an overtly nonsexual way but it seemed to me that it was sexual in their intent and also related to power dynamics and ability to impose something on me that was unwanted and that I could not easily fight without losing even more power. The incident clearly showed to me that regardless of what rules and laws we put in place some will continue to get away with stuff. Meanwhile the rest of us who are not evil and sadistic are afraid we are going to get in trouble for doing things that are completely ok.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

I’m learning that r/psychiatry is perhaps the only sub that circlejerks psychoanalysis as much as the actual r/psychoanalysis sub.

 

[cara susanna]

I just found out about this and am pretty horrified

Figuring out together which treatments work best

Add your experience to the largest community-driven research

www.stuffthatworks.health

 

[chicandtoughness]

Crowdsourced treatment efficacy studies? Kill it with fire.

 

[The Cinnabon]

I just found out about this and am pretty horrified

Figuring out together which treatments work best

Add your experience to the largest community-driven research

www.stuffthatworks.health

I woke up feeling fresh and happy today, was really wondering what was going to come along to harsh my vibe (that's being a buzz kill for you old timers).

 

[cara susanna]

Crowdsourced treatment efficacy studies? Kill it with fire.

Really a great strategy for a diagnosis where we know that short-term relief is not the same as and is, in fact, often contrary to, actual improvement

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I just found out about this and am pretty horrified

Figuring out together which treatments work best

Add your experience to the largest community-driven research

www.stuffthatworks.health

"Psychological Therapy"

We need to go back to printed books, encyclopedias, journals...

At least the cost of physically printing, editing, and distributing idiotic fluff in physical form served as a MINIMAL rate-limiting constraint on the propagation of absolutely vapid nonsense.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Evidently the current Reddit consensus is that all personality disorders are simply complex trauma responses.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Evidently the current Reddit consensus is that all personality disorders are simply complex trauma responses.

In a fit of irony I'm pretty sure my old PI, who was the chief of the PTSD section at my VA, used the word "trauma" in their daily life less than your average reddit midlevel who buys into snake-oil.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

There’s also currently a huge circle-jerk in favor of Gabor Maté currently happening on r/therapists.

 

[The Cinnabon]

There’s also currently a huge circle-jerk in favor of Gabor Maté currently happening on r/therapists.

Was he the guy who made claims on how people facing addiction can usually trace this back to childhood trauma?

I haven't really kept up with the addictions world and its resident goons who make unscrupulous claims

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Was he the guy who made claims on how people facing addiction can usually trace this back to childhood trauma?

I haven't really kept up with the addictions world and its resident goons who make unscrupulous claims

He thinks addiction and ADHD are both rooted in childhood trauma, even if the folks with the disorder can’t remember the trauma.

 

[The Cinnabon]

He thinks addiction and ADHD are both rooted in childhood trauma, even if the folks with the disorder can’t remember the trauma.

There is little originality with these types, at this point.

I wonder if BVDK hosts BBQs for Psychologists/Psychiatrists where he coaches his acolytes how to write a book that will garner the most $$$ from the common public. I'm only mostly joking ... mostly.

 

[borne_before]

I just saw a "coach" with a doctorate in political science discussing pathological demand avoidance (gentrified ODD + coddling). I think the treatment is basically to never ask your kid to do anything or set any boundaries. I'm sure it's effective in decreasing conflict and your child's ability to develop adaptive skills.

Casey Ehrlich, Ph.D. - sure makes sure to emphasize her doctoral training and claims of being a social scientist. Why do boards allow this? About

It's clearly misleading to parents.

 

[WisNeuro]

I just saw a "coach" with a doctorate in political science discussing pathological demand avoidance (gentrified ODD + coddling). I think the treatment is basically to never ask your kid to do anything or set any boundaries. I'm sure it's effective in decreasing conflict and your child's ability to develop adaptive skills.

Casey Ehrlich, Ph.D. - sure makes sure to emphasize her doctoral training and claims of being a social scientist. Why do boards allow this? About

It's clearly misleading to parents.

"Certificate in Polyvagal Theory from the Polyvagal Institute."

 

[borne_before]

"Certificate in Polyvagal Theory from the Polyvagal Institute."

Certified in Deez Theory from the Nutz Institute.

 

[WPMO]

Certified in Deez Theory from the Nutz Institute.

What's "Certified in Deez?"

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

I just saw a "coach" with a doctorate in political science discussing pathological demand avoidance (gentrified ODD + coddling). I think the treatment is basically to never ask your kid to do anything or set any boundaries. I'm sure it's effective in decreasing conflict and your child's ability to develop adaptive skills.

Casey Ehrlich, Ph.D. - sure makes sure to emphasize her doctoral training and claims of being a social scientist. Why do boards allow this? About

It's clearly misleading to parents.

This seems almost reportable.

 

[R. Matey]

These seems almost reportable.

Alas, coaching is a label that covers all kinds of misdeeds.

 

[borne_before]

What's "Certified in Deez?"

 

[ClinicalABA]

I just saw a "coach" with a doctorate in political science discussing pathological demand avoidance (gentrified ODD + coddling). I think the treatment is basically to never ask your kid to do anything or set any boundaries. I'm sure it's effective in decreasing conflict and your child's ability to develop adaptive skills.

Casey Ehrlich, Ph.D. - sure makes sure to emphasize her doctoral training and claims of being a social scientist. Why do boards allow this? About

It's clearly misleading to parents.

From the linked "About" page on the website:

"Pioneering the first peer-reviewed studies of PDA in the United States with Noelle Carlozzi, Ph. D., at the University of Michigan School of Medicine"

What do you know- a Proquest/psycinfo/ERIC search for pathological demand avoidance (in anywhere) and Ehrlich (in Author) or Carlozzi (in author) returns no results, while a search for just pathological demand avoidance (in anywhere) comes back with some peer reviewed stuff that is not done by Ehrlich or Carlozzi. A cursory review of Carolozzi's page on the U Michigan site shows no apparent connection to Ehrlich* or work on PDA. While it may be "in progress," it's at best a premature statement and at worst an intentional intent to mislead the public. It could be a matter of it being in a journal not referenced in the search, but my guess is that's unlikely.

*ETA- there is actually a pretty cool "collaboration network map on Carlozzi's UMich page. It show a collaboration with a Josh Ehrlich (who is an assoc prof of opthamology and visual sciences at UMich), but none with Casey Ehrlich.