PhD/PsyD Just a thread to post the weirdest/whackiest/dumbest mental health-related stuff you come across in the (social) media...

[EnPsychlopedia]

Someone in a Reddit thread posted this link of a video of George Bonnano talking with the YouTuber Doctor Mike. I much enjoyed it (but it is long):

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[quickpsych]

I stumbled upon some psychiatrist named Dr. Amen on social media… he pushes SPECT imaging for a fee to diagnose conditions. He also posts a lot about bio markers that don’t exist, scare tactics to get people to buy SPECT scans, pushes his own ADHD online test measure, among other things. He also talks a lot about products he has deemed bad for you while directing you to his website for better options.

Go through comments on his videos and find people praising him for his knowledge and asking him to do videos on other things they think he has the imaging and supplements answers for.

I initially laughed at the snake oil obviousness. Then sadly found there’s people online who said their therapists have recommended him and his “tests and advice.” Maybe he started off legit but click baiting sells and $3,500 “scans” make more than $200 med check visits I guess. 🙄

He makes Dr. Oz look like a great honest doctor and Dr. Phil look like he’s using empirically based approaches.


In his case you wonder where the medical board is on these things?

I don’t hate the hustle and business building, but I do hate the snake oil shilling and the disregard for general ethics and do no harm ethics to get clicks and trick people.

 

[chicandtoughness]

We refuse to acknowledge Dr. Amen as one of ours >[ He attended Oral Roberts University for his MD, which is an evangelical college whose medical school was shut down in like, the late 70s.

He's also a trauma fetishist in the same way that Mate is, sigh.

It's giving the same vibes as snake oil noctors who shill full body MRI scans every month.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I stumbled upon some psychiatrist named Dr. Amen on social media… he pushes SPECT imaging for a fee to diagnosis conditions. He also posts a lot about bio markers that don’t exist, scare tactics to get people to buy SPECT scans, pushes his own ADHD online test measure, among other things. He also talks a lot about products he has deemed bad for you while directing you to his website for better options.

Go through comments on his videos and find people praising him for his knowledge and asking him to do videos on other things they think he has the imaging and supplements answers for.

I initially laughed at the snake oil obviousness. Then sadly found there’s people online who said their therapists have recommended him and his “tests and advice.” Maybe he started off legit but click baiting sells and $3,500 “scans” make more than $200 med check visits I guess. 🙄

He makes Dr. Oz look like a great honest doctor and Dr. Phil look like he’s using empirically based approaches.


In his case you wonder where the medical board is on these things?

I don’t hate the hustle and business building, but I do hate the snake oil shilling and the disregard for general ethics and do no harm ethics to get clicks and trick people.

I've come across multiple evaluation reports from his clinics. I've yet to see one that didn't suggest some possibility, purportedly per results from SPECT and other imaging, of various combinations of ADHD, TBI, and possible Alzheimer's. My understanding is that the cost of all the work up was into the five figures, all out of pocket.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I feel like his politics make him come across as less credible

More details, please. I know nothing about this person.

 

[cara susanna]

More details, please. I know nothing about this person.

He's kind of like, anti-woke. I'm not saying it's a bad thing per se, just if you're trying to persuade people who are, well, woke, they aren't going to be super impressed.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

He's kind of like, anti-woke. I'm not saying it's a bad thing per se, just if you're trying to persuade people who are, well, woke, they aren't going to be super impressed.

Somehow this tracks.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Someone in a Reddit thread posted this link of a video of George Bonnano talking with the YouTuber Doctor Mike. I much enjoyed it (but it is long):

Sadly, this is one of the least watched videos from this channel. Peeing in the shower video was almost 8x more popular.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

More details, please. I know nothing about this person.

He's got some videos on his YouTube channel where he agrees with some of Tucker Carlson's weird spiel.

 

[Shiori]

Sadly, this is one of the least watched videos from this channel. Peeing in the shower video was almost 8x more popular.

It looks like people aren't as excited about his interview-style videos. They want pure Dr. Mike.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

We refuse to acknowledge Dr. Amen as one of ours >[ He attended Oral Roberts University for his MD, which is an evangelical college whose medical school was shut down in like, the late 70s.

He's also a trauma fetishist in the same way that Mate is, sigh.

It's giving the same vibes as snake oil noctors who shill full body MRI scans every month.

From my understanding, Nova Southeastern University's psych dept is in bed with his clinics.

 

[chicandtoughness]

From my understanding, Nova Southeastern University's psych dept is in bed with his clinics.

This.... does not surprise me given it's Nova.

Apologies to any Nova grads here :'(

 

[AcronymAllergy]

From my understanding, Nova Southeastern University's psych dept is in bed with his clinics.

I don't know how intertwined they are, but I've definitely seen Nova students who've done rotations through there.

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't know how intertwined they are, but I've definitely seen Nova students who've done rotations through there.

Been a few years since I trained interns/postdocs at this point, but nearly all of the applications for more neuro people I reviewed at that time had rotations/posters/pubs with the Amen clinic. Utilized my automatic veto quite a bit in those years.

 

[WPMO]

Yeah, but it should be a good enough rationale 🤣

Unironically though - the Therapists subreddit has over 100,000 people on it. There is influence to be had there. Even if not all are actual therapists, certainly tens of thousands are. There is nowhere else you can get out a message to tens of thousands of people all at once in this field.

 

[psychma]

Don’t knock all mid levels. We aren’t all posting on Reddit. I had 1 stats class, an assessment course that was all stats, and 4 additional assessment courses. I don’t believe in brain spotting or EMDR and practice the evil CBT. I completed thousands of hours of supervision with a licensed psychologist over 4 years … thousands of hours more than I needed. I have my own private practice but pay a PhD psychologist to collaborate with me in order to ensure I’m continuously providing quality care.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Note I said "someone" and not "me" for that reason. Also, like, I'm not sure "we need to educate people on Reddit" is the best rationale for a paper being a good fit for a journal.

I mean, there's a decent corpus of articles published to counteract/correct popular misconceptions, so it can be done.

 

[The Cinnabon]

It looks like people aren't as excited about his interview-style videos. They want pure Dr. Mike.

I've always been so torn on Dr.Mike. Occasionally he'll interview someone who is a legitimate expert in their field not out to shill. But he almost equally also interviews total shills or shill adjacent types.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Don’t knock all mid levels. We aren’t all posting on Reddit. I had 1 stats class, an assessment course that was all stats, and 4 additional assessment courses. I don’t believe in brain spotting or EMDR and practice the evil CBT. I completed thousands of hours of supervision with a licensed psychologist over 4 years … thousands of hours more than I needed. I have my own private practice but pay a PhD psychologist to collaborate with me in order to ensure I’m continuously providing quality care.

You’re a good therapist.

 

[Sanman]

I've always been so torn on Dr.Mike. Occasionally he'll interview someone who is a legitimate expert in their field not out to shill. But he almost equally also interviews total shills or shill adjacent types.

The problem is there would be little content without some shills. They are the ones willing to be guests.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Folks on r/therapists are now praising the surgeon general of California’s advice to “screen all children for trauma.” Our field learned almost nothing from the Satanic Panic.

 

[WisNeuro]

Folks on r/therapists are now praising the surgeon general of California’s advice to “screen all children for trauma.” Our field learned almost nothing from the Satanic Panic.

Sweet, let's re-commit all of the errors we thought we learned from the early CISD debacle. Also, everyone should be required to have their ACES score tattooed on their arms for easy identification and so we can more accurately direct our compulsory trigger warnings.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Sweet, let's re-commit all of the errors we thought we learned from the early CISD debacle. Also, everyone should be required to have their ACES score tattooed on their arms for easy identification and so we can more accurately direct our compulsory trigger warnings.

Some folks on the thread are now asking what trauma assessments are appropriate for them to administer as master’s-level folks.

 

[WisNeuro]

Some folks on the thread are now asking what trauma assessments are appropriate for them to administer as master’s-level folks.

And unfortunately, the cycle of iatrogenic damage continues from poorly trained providers who lack the knowledge or skills to properly understand what they are doing.

 

[Sanman]

Folks on r/therapists are now praising the surgeon general of California’s advice to “screen all children for trauma.” Our field learned almost nothing from the Satanic Panic.

Do they have any suggestions on what to do after this screening? Increased focus on psychosocial stressors in a clinical assessment is not a bad thing for a physician, but who is doing this screening and what are they doing with the information? I can tell you right now that folks in lower SES environments will tend to have higher ACES scores. How do they plan to address that? All they have to do is fix poverty.

 

[cara susanna]

Folks on r/therapists are now praising the surgeon general of California’s advice to “screen all children for trauma.” Our field learned almost nothing from the Satanic Panic.

Oh yeah, I saw that and had the same reaction

 

[The Cinnabon]

Do they have any suggestions on what to do after this screening? Increased focus on psychosocial stressors in a clinical assessment is not a bad thing for a physician, but who is doing this screening and what are they doing with the information? I can tell you right now that folks in lower SES environments will tend to have higher ACES scores. How do they plan to address that? All they have to do is fix poverty.

I was thinking this in my way over during the commute. Save the money from this waste of a program and utilize it on something useful for low income kids.

 

[cara susanna]

The concept of posttraumatic growth would blow some of these people's minds.

 

[borne_before]

I was thinking this in my way over during the commute. Save the money from this waste of a program and utilize it on something useful for low income kids.

I don't want to be nihilistic prick, but what would be useful for them? I'm a little familiar with some of the interventions targeting this demographic and my understanding is that it's really challenging to find reproducible results...

What a tough policy discussion.

My thinking is that it's because the group is so heterogenous. For instance, two of my families, are low SES because a parent has a disability (i'm working with a blind couple and their kid right now) or because they came here illegally? The immigrant family has a daughter getting a grad degree from yale, and we are working on helping the sibling with down syndrome travel to their graduation (I get goose bumps from this family).

 

[Sanman]

I don't want to be nihilistic prick, but what would be useful for them? I'm a little familiar with some of the interventions targeting this demographic and my understanding is that it's really challenging to find reproducible results...

What a tough policy discussion.

My thinking is that it's because the group is so heterogenous. For instance, two of my families, are low SES because a parent has a disability (i'm working with a blind couple and their kid right now) or because they came here illegally? The immigrant family has a daughter getting a grad degree from yale, and we are working on helping the sibling with down syndrome travel to their graduation (I get goose bumps from this family).

Honestly, cheap subsidized daycare, after school programs, or expansion of free school lunches.

 

[WisNeuro]

The concept of posttraumatic growth would blow some of these people's minds.

Or the concept of resilience, or the modal response after trauma, or pretty much anything of an empirical nature that contradicts the worldview they have constructed via confirmatory biases.

 

[borne_before]

Honestly, cheap subsidized daycare, after school programs, or expansion of free school lunches.

Personally, I agree with that stuff. But, is there evidence that those work? I'm on board from a humanistic perspective.

But, here's my real gripe with this: why are schools always tasked with job of fixing society? It's easy to criticize a school for caring about ACES, but I view it as completely outside the bounds of schooling (think the famous integration/national guard picture in the south).

I think schools serve as a memory hole. If we continue to say "that's the school's job (re trauma), it will stop grassroots initiatives in communities from forming because the school has got it." I like grassroots stuff better than governmental or policy stuff. It's a way to deflect responsibility.

If low SES kids are so trauma-ed, it's likely the school isn't the root cause.

Edit: this a prime example of schoolism: Youth Mental Health Corps: Fostering Well-being in Schools and Communities

 

[Sanman]

Personally, I agree with that stuff. But, is there evidence that those work? I'm on board from a humanistic perspective.

But, here's my real gripe with this: why are schools always tasked with job of fixing society? It's easy to criticize a school for caring about ACES, but I view it as completely outside the bounds of schooling (think the famous integration/national guard picture in the south).

I think schools serve as a memory hole. If we continue to say "that's the school's job (re trauma), it will stop grassroots initiatives in communities from forming because the school has got it." I like grassroots stuff better than governmental or policy stuff. It's a way to deflect responsibility.

If low SES kids are so trauma-ed, it's likely the school isn't the root cause.

Edit: this a prime example of schoolism: Youth Mental Health Corps: Fostering Well-being in Schools and Communities

I don't think schools should be involved with ACES. That is really about proper healthcare, in my view (properly assessing somatic complaints, etc).

However, the free school lunch program has been very effective and it really boils down to schools being the only public facility/infrastructure many poor communities can easily access. Bottom line is, it works. It has shown improvements in reducing childhood obesity and addressing food insecurity.

New Report: Every Dollar Invested in U.S. School Meal Programs Provides $2 in Health and Economic Equity Benefits

Expanding it is also a jobs program

 

[quickpsych]

Folks on r/therapists are now praising the surgeon general of California’s advice to “screen all children for trauma.” Our field learned almost nothing from the Satanic Panic.

This sounds like the mantra over on that r/therapists subreddit of "everyone has some trauma!"

I'm sure that sells more EMDR "company" trainings and services.

 

[Sanman]

This sounds like the mantra over on that r/therapists subreddit of "everyone has some trauma!"

I'm sure that sells more EMDR "company" trainings and services.

Pretty much. Otherwise known as, "You want therapy, surely we can find something to treat you for!"

 

[cara susanna]

Everything is trauma and every problem is caused by trauma

 

[RxPsych]

Everything is trauma and every problem is caused by trauma

This sentiment is eerily similar to early psychology theorists that attributed everything to the unconscious. Granted, trauma has research support for actually existing, but relating everything to trauma is just ridiculous.

 

[The Cinnabon]

I don't think schools should be involved with ACES. That is really about proper healthcare, in my view (properly assessing somatic complaints, etc).

However, the free school lunch program has been very effective and it really boils down to schools be the only public facility/infrastructure many poor communities can easily access. Bottom line is, it works. It has shown improvements in reducing childhood obesity and addressing food insecurity.

New Report: Every Dollar Invested in U.S. School Meal Programs Provides $2 in Health and Economic Equity Benefits

Expanding it is also a jobs program

Yeah that was my thinking. It doesn't have to be crazy, but I can't imagine expanding day care services for low income families would have less net positives than screening their kids for trauma.

 

[The Cinnabon]

This sentiment is eerily similar to early psychology theorists that attributed everything to the unconscious. Granted, trauma has research support for actually existing, but relating everything to trauma is just ridiculous.

What grinds my gears is that it often puts trauma on a pedestal above anything else. You shouldn't need trauma to legitimize a period where you are struggling and do need some professional help.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

So many folks have misunderstood the “stress” part of “stress-diathesis model” to be synonymous with “trauma.” Which we all know is ridiculous, but from that perspective it isn’t exactly hard to see why so many folks make this “everything has a trauma element” argument. It’s the equating of “adversity” with “trauma.”

 

[cara susanna]

Yup, like the people who think that existing with ADHD or autism is traumatic. Difficult? Heck yeah. Traumatic? Nope.

 

[borne_before]

Yup, like the people who think that existing with ADHD or autism is traumatic. Difficult? Heck yeah. Traumatic? Nope.

FTFY

 

[WPMO]

Do they have any suggestions on what to do after this screening? Increased focus on psychosocial stressors in a clinical assessment is not a bad thing for a physician, but who is doing this screening and what are they doing with the information? I can tell you right now that folks in lower SES environments will tend to have higher ACES scores. How do they plan to address that? All they have to do is fix poverty.

This is more what I wonder from the thread. I think a reasonable person could advocate for universal screenings for many different potential problems, but I wonder where we go from there. These screenings of children probably turn up many things that result in mandated reports to CPS...is that good for the child? Maybe. Depends on the situation.

I feel like we have just come back around to what Social Work figured out ages ago, which is that a lot of our client's problems are caused/influenced by their environment. So what can we do to try to promote societal change that will help these kids? I don't think it's a bad idea to ask that question, I just wish we were more focused on answers.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This sentiment is eerily similar to early psychology theorists that attributed everything to the unconscious. Granted, trauma has research support for actually existing, but relating everything to trauma is just ridiculous.

Agreed. There's a segment of MH professionals (and patients) increasingly moving in the direction of thinking that everyone, at some point, has experienced trauma (probably in childhood and which they may or may not remember), and that this trauma is then the cause of any and all psychological distress they experience in their lives.

 

[Sanman]

Agreed. There's a segment of MH professionals (and patients) increasingly moving in the direction of thinking that everyone, at some point, has experienced trauma (probably in childhood and which they may or may not remember), and that this trauma is then the cause of any and all psychological distress they experience in their lives.

If you open up the description wide enough, everyone has experienced traumatic events in their life. The important point to make here is that not all possible traumatic events require treatment and not everything is a delayed reaction to remote trauma.

 

[RxPsych]

Agreed. There's a segment of MH professionals (and patients) increasingly moving in the direction of thinking that everyone, at some point, has experienced trauma (probably in childhood and which they may or may not remember), and that this trauma is then the cause of any and all psychological distress they experience in their lives.

I may not distinctly remember it, but when I was 2 years old my parents had a minor argument over whether they should buy a pool table or a ping pong table. I overheard this and cried because my dad raised his voice, which caused me a lot of trauma. I am now an adult and I like to organize the spices in my cabinet by alphabetical order and feel slightly bothered when they aren't. Please give me EMDR

 

[AcronymAllergy]

If you open up the description wide enough, everyone has experienced traumatic events in their life. The important point to make here is that not all possible traumatic events require treatment and not everything is a delayed reaction to remote trauma.

Also agreed. There's research to suggest that many or even most people will, at some point in their lives, experience at least one Criterion A event. Yet the lifetime prevalence rates of PTSD, or even mental illness more broadly, are suspiciously not 100%.

I guess that means we just aren't diagnosing everyone accurately.

 

[Sanman]

I may not distinctly remember it, but when I was 2 years old my parents had a minor argument over whether they should buy a pool table or a ping pong table. I overheard this and cried because my dad raised his voice, which caused me a lot of trauma. I am now an adult and I like to organize the spices in my cabinet by alphabetical order and feel slightly bothered when they aren't. Please give me EMDR

I can get you in next week via telehealth. EMDR sessions are in high demand, so I am charging $400/hr. Hit me up, yo.

 

[Sanman]

Also agreed. There's research to suggest that many or even most people will, at some point in their lives, experience at least one Criterion A event. Yet the lifetime prevalence rates of PTSD, or even mental illness more broadly, are suspiciously not 100%.

I guess that means we just aren't diagnosing everyone accurately.

The point I often make to these people is that most of us have been in a minor car accident. Yet, we have managed to overcome the "trauma" and get back on the road. Now, the first week or two after an accident you may be more careful. But, we are not all sitting at home afraid to drive anywhere now.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

I may not distinctly remember it, but when I was 2 years old my parents had a minor argument over whether they should buy a pool table or a ping pong table. I overheard this and cried because my dad raised his voice, which caused me a lot of trauma. I am now an adult and I like to organize the spices in my cabinet by alphabetical order and feel slightly bothered when they aren't. Please give me EMDR

This is really complex—EMDR isn’t enough. Have you tried somatic therapy? I hear it releases stored remnants of complex developmental trauma.

(/sarcasm, just in case)