Just Another Pathologist selling his soul....

[Unty]

“My services give clinicians the opportunity to bill the professional reading component of their own patients biopsies on MY BEHALF as well as ON BEHALF of OUR panel of board certified pathologists.”

Hey I’m a pathologist. I am willing to give you some of my professional component reimbursement! I’m also willing to give the reimbursement of the other pathologists I employ!!!!

We can make you more money!!! We can pay for your overhead!

Sadly this is the state of Pathology in private practice. The oversupply of training programs has contributed to this. What other field in medicine gives a portion of their reimbursement to another field?

If we protected our field like dermatology (limited number of residency spots) has we wouldn’t be in this position!

Reviving an old thread in regards to the current oversupply of pathologists:

"I received over 130 CV's for that position so your job service is VERY effective." Dr. Ernest Wu, Florida, 8 April 2015

"PathologyOutlines.com brings us the CV's we need." Ms. R, Maryland, 24 March 2015

"We received 41 CV's in 6 hours." Dr. M, Connecticut, 24 March 2015

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Med Director New England]

I think I am as just as disturbed by the grammar and formatting of the message as the content.

source?

 

[AZpath]

Applying for a job or soliciting business is normal. What is not is normal:

-Tons of applicants for even remote rural positions.
-Getting paid 50% to 25% of the PC.
-Insurance companies following that trend.
-The majority of Jobs advertise are academic.
-30% of fellow not getting a job offer.
-Unattractive to AMGs and this web site as the root cause.
-CAP selling this as a attractive profession as these trends continue

 

[Unty]

This website may be one of the root causes but another root cause is that no one knows what pathologists do and that it’s been traditionally a FMG dominated non competitive field. It doesn’t have appeal.

Not many people traditionally have gone into pathology because not many people go into medicine wanting to look down a microscope for the rest of their lives.

If you cut the number of spots to make Path competitive then I think it would open some eyes due to higher salaries.

Most Competitive US grads go for high paying careers with a strong future and job market. Dermatology is one specialty where they do a good job at protecting their profession from degradation.

Recently read an article about the glut of applicants in derm. Not a glut of residency spots but a glut of applicants. If you are a foreign grad your chances aren’t good to get a spot unless you take years off to do research or have some serious connections.

Dermatology residency match: Is the glut of applications for limited positions corrupting the process?

Path is the opposite. Too many spots-Opening the field to anyone who wants in because its not hard to get a spot somewhere.

 

[rirriri]

There is no “oversupply” or trainees. The reality is that good trainees easily get jobs and the leftovers end up doing pod lab practices like this.

the job market is not bad at all. it’s just different than it was 20 years ago. Some of you guys are stuck in 2001. We also have ended up with some substandard candidates like whomever wrote this letter—-in effect begging for some type of job since no private, hospital, or academic position gets offered to them. Every specialty has bad candidates—-so stop distorting ours with a few bad apples.

I personally haven’t seen graduates have any difficulty getting whatever they wanted.

 

[path24]

100+ applicants for a job at the VA. Yep, job market/pathology training is top notch. Great field. Highly recommend if you are looking to throw away your professional career.

 

[Dave CX]

There is no “oversupply” or trainees. The reality is that good trainees easily get jobs and the leftovers end up doing pod lab practices like this.

the job market is not bad at all. it’s just different than it was 20 years ago. Some of you guys are stuck in 2001. We also have ended up with some substandard candidates like whomever wrote this letter—-in effect begging for some type of job since no private, hospital, or academic position gets offered to them. Every specialty has bad candidates—-so stop distorting ours with a few bad apples.

I personally haven’t seen graduates have any difficulty getting whatever they wanted.

I suggest you try an experiment to test your theory. Apply to some non academic jobs and see what happens, how many interviews you get. Might be enlightening.

 

[MetroPath]

There is no “oversupply” or trainees. The reality is that good trainees easily get jobs and the leftovers end up doing pod lab practices like this.

the job market is not bad at all. it’s just different than it was 20 years ago. Some of you guys are stuck in 2001. We also have ended up with some substandard candidates like whomever wrote this letter—-in effect begging for some type of job since no private, hospital, or academic position gets offered to them. Every specialty has bad candidates—-so stop distorting ours with a few bad apples.

I personally haven’t seen graduates have any difficulty getting whatever they wanted.

You mentioned in a previous post that you have “no understanding of private practice.” That statement alone negates any advice you can shell out in regards to the current private practice job market.

I’m currently looking for private practice jobs and the job market is not great as you mentioned. Everyone does get jobs and I will eventually get one.

 

[MetroPath]

100+ applicants for a job at the VA. Yep, job market/pathology training is top notch. Great field. Highly recommend if you are looking to throw away your professional career.

Where are you hearing 100+ candidates? Just curious.

 

[Unty]

There is no “oversupply” or trainees. The reality is that good trainees easily get jobs and the leftovers end up doing pod lab practices like this.

the job market is not bad at all. it’s just different than it was 20 years ago. Some of you guys are stuck in 2001. We also have ended up with some substandard candidates like whomever wrote this letter—-in effect begging for some type of job since no private, hospital, or academic position gets offered to them. Every specialty has bad candidates—-so stop distorting ours with a few bad apples.

I personally haven’t seen graduates have any difficulty getting whatever they wanted.

Post one job in the Chicagoland area that is not academic. It’s a tight job market there especially with the training programs there.

If you can post a job in that area I will eat my words and take back everything I said about the job market not being good.

Just one private practice job and I’m not talking in a city 2-3 hours out.

I’ll be waiting for your reply. If you do find one., tell me how many jobs you found online TOTAL.

Pathologyoutlines which I consider to be one of the better places to find a job apart from word of mouth advertises only 10 jobs in the STATE of ILLINOIS. 7 out of the 10 jobs are academic positions leaving only 3 pp positions.

How hard is it to understand ririri that the job market is not good? Remember 600 pathologists enter the workforce each year.

 

[path24]

Where are you hearing 100+ candidates? Just curious.

Considered applying for a job at a VA (liked the location). Contacted and talked with a pathologist working there. Said 100+ applicants (don't know quality/qualifications). That was a surprise.

 

[Unty]

Considered applying for a job at a VA (liked the location). Contacted and talked with a pathologist working there. Said 100+ applicants (don't know quality/qualifications). That was a surprise.

I don’t believe you. Ririri said the job market is great though????

 

[CDX-2]

View attachment 283221

“My services give clinicians the opportunity to bill the professional reading component of their own patients biopsies on MY BEHALF as well as ON BEHALF of OUR panel of board certified pathologists.”

Hey I’m a pathologist. I am willing to give you some of my professional component reimbursement! I’m also willing to give the reimbursement of the other pathologists I employ!!!!

We can make you more money!!! We can pay for your overhead!

Sadly this is the state of Pathology in private practice. The oversupply of training programs has contributed to this. What other field in medicine gives a portion of their reimbursement to another field?

If we protected our field like dermatology (limited number of residency spots) has we wouldn’t be in this position!

Reviving an old thread in regards to the current oversupply of pathologists:

"I received over 130 CV's for that position so your job service is VERY effective." Dr. Ernest Wu, Florida, 8 April 2015

"PathologyOutlines.com brings us the CV's we need." Ms. R, Maryland, 24 March 2015

"We received 41 CV's in 6 hours." Dr. M, Connecticut, 24 March 2015

Wow just wow, at Pathologist offering a portion of his professional component to the clinician. I'm not aware of any other specialties that do this?!?!

At this rate, it seens like GP/Family Medicine is more stable...

 

[HeyDalaron]

Does this constitute a kickback?

 

[Guest8]

Does this constitute a kickback?

Legally, no. Legally it isn't really any different than being an employed physician where someone else bills for your services and gives you a portion of the revenue in return. And since we don't control the tissue, we don't have much power over it.

 

[y2k_free_radical]

View attachment 283221

“My services give clinicians the opportunity to bill the professional reading component of their own patients biopsies on MY BEHALF as well as ON BEHALF of OUR panel of board certified pathologists.”

Hey I’m a pathologist. I am willing to give you some of my professional component reimbursement! I’m also willing to give the reimbursement of the other pathologists I employ!!!!

We can make you more money!!! We can pay for your overhead!

Sadly this is the state of Pathology in private practice. The oversupply of training programs has contributed to this. What other field in medicine gives a portion of their reimbursement to another field?

If we protected our field like dermatology (limited number of residency spots) has we wouldn’t be in this position!

Reviving an old thread in regards to the current oversupply of pathologists:

"I received over 130 CV's for that position so your job service is VERY effective." Dr. Ernest Wu, Florida, 8 April 2015

"PathologyOutlines.com brings us the CV's we need." Ms. R, Maryland, 24 March 2015

"We received 41 CV's in 6 hours." Dr. M, Connecticut, 24 March 2015

Are there any other specialists who share their professional component with their referring physicians ????????????????

 

[cmz]

Local GI practices have shared with me advertisements of labs that are willing to charge $15.00 for the PC per 88305 (reading IHC and special stains for free). The labs let it go under the radar that they keep all the TC. They show a nice proforma documenting the number of avg jars expected per month and quantity of special stains and IHC to be used. All that is needed is a willing soul to read the slides, a $3,000 microscope and a one-time CLIA license fee of $1200. For a mere 7,000 jars a year, a GI office can expect to earn at least $250K per year profit. This is taking CMS rates (100%) into account only. Commercial carriers and HMO plans that may offer less than 100% CMS are excluded from the data so projected revenue can vary obviously.

There are labs out there that "purchase" the TC from GI offices and bill globally.

Then there are the in-office labs that probably do the best by billing globally and paying a flat fee to the pathologist of $20/slide.

As far as other specialists who share their PC with their referring physicians... not so much... but in anesthesia there is also some degree of commoditization by GI docs as well. CRNAs under the direction of an MD/DO can be hired by a GI group to perform conscious sedation for their endoscopy procedures. It's just one more pocket to pick. That's just the nature of our business. We are reliant on what other's feed us.

 

[Med Director New England]

Local GI practices have shared with me advertisements of labs that are willing to charge $15.00 for the PC per 88305 (reading IHC and special stains for free). The labs let it go under the radar that they keep all the TC. They show a nice proforma documenting the number of avg jars expected per month and quantity of special stains and IHC to be used. All that is needed is a willing soul to read the slides, a $3,000 microscope and a one-time CLIA license fee of $1200. For a mere 7,000 jars a year, a GI office can expect to earn at least $250K per year profit. This is taking CMS rates (100%) into account only. Commercial carriers and HMO plans that may offer less than 100% CMS are excluded from the data so projected revenue can vary obviously.

There are labs out there that "purchase" the TC from GI offices and bill globally.

Then there are the in-office labs that probably do the best by billing globally and paying a flat fee to the pathologist of $20/slide.

As far as other specialists who share their PC with their referring physicians... not so much... but in anesthesia there is also some degree of commoditization by GI docs as well. CRNAs under the direction of an MD/DO can be hired by a GI group to perform conscious sedation for their endoscopy procedures. It's just one more pocket to pick. That's just the nature of our business. We are reliant on what other's feed us.

So are radiologists (reliant on others referrals)
And yet no one who refers to them picks their pockets.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Recently posted radiology locums, as a comparison to pathology
Concord(e) Physician Source is seeking Radiologists for Wisconsin. Pay up to $15,650 per week when Call is included. General Diagnostic mix - Mammo preferred, but not required. Potential for permanent hire. Share this if you know a Radiologist

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I like these people. Look at number 5 on their list of what to check for.

5. CMS-compliant pathology contract for services (no need to give away the entire PC billings to any pathology group, ever)

In-Office Pathology Laboratory - What Not To Do — In-Office Pathology, LLC (IOP)

In-Office Pathology, LLC (IOP) specializes in building in-office ENFD testing lab from design by an architect to a IOP senior histotech on-site for startup of the lab. IOP is your Pathology Lab solution to help Podiatrists and improve patient care

iopathology.com

 

[Med Director New England]

I like these people. Look at number 5 on their list of what to check for.

5. CMS-compliant pathology contract for services (no need to give away the entire PC billings to any pathology group, ever)

In-Office Pathology Laboratory - What Not To Do — In-Office Pathology, LLC (IOP)

In-Office Pathology, LLC (IOP) specializes in building in-office ENFD testing lab from design by an architect to a IOP senior histotech on-site for startup of the lab. IOP is your Pathology Lab solution to help Podiatrists and improve patient care

iopathology.com

Give away the entire PC to any pathology group. Give away something that you should never have a piece of...what a warped concept


how do the academics who claim paths are in short supply not recognize that pathologists in bidding wars with ever increasing fractions of THEIR PC for work is related to pathologists availability and vulnerability.

first 25, now 15 will it soon be 10 bucks / 305. Where is the bottom.

 

[Unty]

Give away the entire PC to any pathology group. Give away something that you should never have a piece of...what a warped concept


how do the academics who claim paths are in short supply not recognize that pathologists in bidding wars with ever increasing fractions of THEIR PC for work is not related to pathologists availability and vulnerability.

first 25, now 15 will it soon be 10 bucks / 305. Where is the bottom.

Ririri and BUPath will still come here and say Path is great. They are academics and that’s what they are supposed to do, to promote Pathology.

I doubt they care about what happens in private practice pathology since it doesn’t affect them or they don’t understand it!

 

[Spikebd]

Give away the entire PC to any pathology group. Give away something that you should never have a piece of...what a warped concept


how do the academics who claim paths are in short supply not recognize that pathologists in bidding wars with ever increasing fractions of THEIR PC for work is not related to pathologists availability and vulnerability.

first 25, now 15 will it soon be 10 bucks / 305. Where is the bottom.

Should be 40

 

[deleted314957]

Ririri and BUPath will still come here and say Path is great. They are academics and that’s what they are supposed to do, to promote Pathology.

I doubt they care about what happens in private practice pathology since it doesn’t affect them or they don’t understand it!

Exactly why academics need their own board. What bothers me is that we all seem to understand that but they do not. But, their interests and motivations are just about 180’
from ours. If they don’t get residents they cannot do their rat-tail connective tissue hypoxia research and must gross and push glass ALL DAY.

 

[turtle1966]

"... The reality is that good trainees easily get jobs and the leftovers end up doing pod lab practices like this. .."

My logic says you have "pod practices like this" as a consequence of an oversupply and not because of poor quality of pathologists.

 

[HeyDalaron]

Agreed. These arrangements cannot happen unless willing parties are available.