Just failed my Step2 CK

[Kobebucsfan]

im devastated.

I was all set to apply for residency next month, i have my LORs ready and everything. Took CS couple weeks ago also. should i still apply for residency, retake CK in october, get my score back in November and still have a shot ?


Step1 score: 218
Did a poster presentation at a psych conference
Did a 1hr speech to 18yr old kids about to go to college about "how to handle stress in School" in India. (ironic right ?)


what should I do, please help

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[MacDonaldTriad]

If you can retake in Oct. and get results in Nov. I would apply now. There will still be time to communicate your second attempt. If you wait a year, your first attempt will still be recorded. Applying this year will not change your chances next year should that be necessary. If you can articulate why you would consider waiting we can probably identify a false assumption your making. Maybe there is something I don't understand, but I see no advantage in pushing this back a year.

 

[24blue8]

Are you an IMG/FMG? Have you alreasy graduated? Were you planning to apply to only psych or also a backup? It might be a good idea to apply broadly and consider family medicine as an additional option.
I think you will also be at a disadvantage applying without your ECFMG certificate which is provisioned once a student has passed the step exams (excluding step 3).

 

[TexasPhysician]

Not enough info to lend an opinion other than I always recommend US MD applicants not take ck until the results would come out AFTER applications are sent out. This bites someone every year.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Not enough info to lend an opinion other than I always recommend US MD applicants not take ck until the results would come out AFTER applications are sent out. This bites someone every year.

Just to respectfully disagree. TexasPhysician is right unless you are interviewing with a PD who has been burned by matching someone who then failed step II and couldn't graduate. Some PDs have learned from hard knocks to not rank applicants who don't have step II. I guess the best answer is always take step II unless you are going to fail it. Of course that isn't so easy to know.

 

[futuredo32]

If you can retake in Oct. and get results in Nov. I would apply now. There will still be time to communicate your second attempt. If you wait a year, your first attempt will still be recorded. Applying this year will not change your chances next year should that be necessary. If you can articulate why you would consider waiting we can probably identify a false assumption your making. Maybe there is something I don't understand, but I see no advantage in pushing this back a year.

THIS. I am sorry you didn't pass. I failed the initial cert board exam 2x and it's not a good feeling.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Just to respectfully disagree. TexasPhysician is right unless you are interviewing with a PD who has been burned by matching someone who then failed step II and couldn't graduate. Some PDs have learned from hard knocks to not rank applicants who don't have step II. I guess the best answer is always take step II unless you are going to fail it. Of course that isn't so easy to know.

I haven’t kept up in recent years, but in the past:
Upon application submission, all Step results are released that have been scored.

After submission, you manually can release updated scores. If you fail, don’t release the scores. If you pass, manually release. I manually released, so it was a thing in the last decade.

There are still multiple well regarded med schools that don’t advise early step 2’s, so having a decent Step 1 is typically enough.

 

[Wilf]

PDs are going to be anxious about the CK failure because Step 3 is significantly more difficult. I've known a couple different residents who ran out of attempts on Step 3.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I never realized applicants had a choice not to submit a failed score. This is useful information. I guess if you have faith that a strong step I predicts passing step II it wouldn't matter.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I never realized applicants had a choice not to submit a failed score. This is useful information. I guess if you have faith that a strong step I predicts passing step II it wouldn't matter.

When you submit, everything you have scored will go automatically. After you can’t select to only submit a passing score instead of a failed one, but you can choose to release all of your scores again as an update or not.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I haven’t kept up in recent years, but in the past:
Upon application submission, all Step results are released that have been scored.

After submission, you manually can release updated scores. If you fail, don’t release the scores. If you pass, manually release. I manually released, so it was a thing in the last decade.

There are still multiple well regarded med schools that don’t advise early step 2’s, so having a decent Step 1 is typically enough.

A missing Step 2 in January is a failed Step 2 until proven otherwise.

 

[TexasPhysician]

A missing Step 2 in January is a failed Step 2 until proven otherwise.

The problem with some of these thoughts is that some medical school advisors actually advise students to take it in Dec-March of MS4. Baylor was strong on this last I checked. Their curriculum is also a bit odd though.

 

[twospadz]

Damn a step 2 ck fail is devastating blow to your app. I know someone who failed and got rejected from their home family medicine program. You will definitely need to apply very broad. Apply back up specialty too.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Just to respectfully disagree. TexasPhysician is right unless you are interviewing with a PD who has been burned by matching someone who then failed step II and couldn't graduate. Some PDs have learned from hard knocks to not rank applicants who don't have step II. I guess the best answer is always take step II unless you are going to fail it. Of course that isn't so easy to know.

Yeahhh I know at least when I was applying for residency people were asking for step 2 scores before they made rank lists. People would ask when you were planning to take step 2 on interview day.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

The problem with some of these thoughts is that some medical school advisors actually advise students to take it in Dec-March of MS4. Baylor was strong on this last I checked. Their curriculum is also a bit odd though.

They're giving crap advice.
From this PD's perspective, anyway.

 

[Stagg737]

The problem with some of these thoughts is that some medical school advisors actually advise students to take it in Dec-March of MS4. Baylor was strong on this last I checked. Their curriculum is also a bit odd though.

From my (very limited) knowledge PDs seemed to want as complete of an application as possible. I talked to 2 PDs and an APD about my application and all of them said they wanted to see a complete app submitted by Sept 15 with everything passed. One even said they do not offer interviews to candidates who don't have a complete app submitted within a week of it opening because they have so many applicants to choose from that they can be picky about less organized people.

10 years ago I was hearing med students and residents say to only take Step 2 before applying if you felt like you needed to make up for Step 1. The last 5 years I've been hearing more and more people saying that having a Step 2 score at the time of application is important. I could certainly be wrong, but the trends in CTO and the PD surveys seem to back up the statements I've heard about that trend.

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

Read the FA book. Practice. And take it as early as possible. All this “strategizing” around timing probably adds to a person’s anxiety and increases failure. It isn’t a difficult test, but it isn’t a freebie. Amazed at the number of people recommending to take it late into interview season — would recommend newbies avoid this advice and just get it done when you can.

 

[mymembernames]

im devastated.

I was all set to apply for residency next month, i have my LORs ready and everything. Took CS couple weeks ago also. should i still apply for residency, retake CK in october, get my score back in November and still have a shot ?


Step1 score: 218
Did a poster presentation at a psych conference
Did a 1hr speech to 18yr old kids about to go to college about "how to handle stress in School" in India. (ironic right ?)


what should I do, please help

Retake and apply! How were you doing on your practice tests?

 

[Kobebucsfan]

If you can retake in Oct. and get results in Nov. I would apply now. There will still be time to communicate your second attempt. If you wait a year, your first attempt will still be recorded. Applying this year will not change your chances next year should that be necessary. If you can articulate why you would consider waiting we can probably identify a false assumption your making. Maybe there is something I don't understand, but I see no advantage in pushing this back a year.

I was thinking that by the time I get my scores back in November, programs already would have removed me from the list. and interviews by that time might already be over

 

[hallowmann]

I was thinking that by the time I get my scores back in November, programs already would have removed me from the list. and interviews by that time might already be over

Strongly recommend taking it as soon as you can pass it. The sooner you have a pass for apps the better. It certainly won't be as if you didn't fail it, but if you are a US MD student, then its salvageable with a broad app.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

Strongly recommend taking it as soon as you can pass it. The sooner you have a pass for apps the better. It certainly won't be as if you didn't fail it, but if you are a US MD student, then its salvageable with a broad app.

I go to a Caribbean med school and i will take it as soon as possible. but after i submit the app, it will already have the failed attempt on the app right ? would everyone automatically throw mine out?

 

[NGTY1991]

Dont submit it with a fail on your app, which will happen if you havent released your USMLE scores yet and eventually need to for programs to look at your application anyway. Either way, I suggest waiting till you get your score then apply.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I was thinking that by the time I get my scores back in November, programs already would have removed me from the list. and interviews by that time might already be over

I took mine in Sept. I had interviews starting in October for every program I applied to - 16ish. I didn’t apply super competitive but did do Duke, Emory, etc. None cared about the lack of step 2 scores for interviews, and I am less than 10 years out.

Almost all of the programs I applied to would have weeded out a step 2 failure for interviews. I would have needed to apply to 4x programs that would have otherwise been safeties.

Step 2 not initially being released would have allowed me to fail step 2 in privacy. I could have retaken the exam and submitted both simultaneously or just not released either (recommended by my home PD at the time).

I have yet to meet a PD that would decline to rank or interview a US MD that had a average Step 1 and no red flags over fear of this applicant failing step 2 multiple times. Step 1 is predictive of Step 2. US MD students without any red flags that then can’t pass step 2 for residency is almost 0.

I would recommend that US MD’s pass step 2 initially and get the scores to programs before their rank meetings.

 

[mymembernames]

Dont submit it with a fail on your app, which will happen if you havent released your USMLE scores yet and eventually need to for programs to look at your application anyway. Either way, I suggest waiting till you get your score then apply.

So there’s no way to submit without releasing his step 2 score ?


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[medicool]

The step 2 CK failure will show up on the usmle transcripts when you release them to eras. I don’t think programs will favorably consider a step 1 of 218 and a step 2 failure, especially for FMGs. You can still apply but my game plan would be to knock off CK and step 3 and stick to a place doing rotations or research that is likely to take FMGs for next year.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

So there’s no way to submit without releasing his step 2 score ?


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I would hope not. That would take a lot of credibility out of this process. That would be like choosing which classes show up on a transcript.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

...
I have yet to meet a PD that would decline to rank or interview a US MD that had a average Step 1 and no red flags over fear of this applicant failing step 2 multiple times. Step 1 is predictive of Step 2. US MD students without any red flags that then can’t pass step 2 for residency is almost 0.

I would recommend that US MD’s pass step 2 initially and get the scores to programs before their rank meetings.

Declining to interview and declining to rank are two VERY separate things. We will almost certainly invite USMD/DOs with Step I passed and Step II missing in the fall, especially if they're coming from our region. But we won't rank them without a passed Step II.

The % of "US MD students without any red flags that then can’t pass step 2 for residency is almost 0"--but it is NOT 0. I've received at least one call every year in January from an otherwise acceptable USMG to inform me that they didn't pass either CS or CK and have to retake and "Is this a problem?"
Umm Yes. It is a problem. And we are going to rank everyone who has passed ahead of you, even if we do take a chance.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I don't know if there are any medical schools left that don't require step II to graduate. For most if not all, you don't pass, you don't graduate. You don't graduate, you don't train. You match with me and can't be hired, I have to find a replacement post SOAP. This is probably the worst timing in terms of replacing someone. We also will interview local people without step II, but I tell them they will not be ranked without step II. Programs could easily filter out everyone without step II and they still would only be able to interview a fraction of the applicant pool. This is mostly an artifact of people applying to more and more places, but it is true.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

sorry guys, im just trying to get everything straight. So i can submit my ERAS application with just my step 1 score ? and then once my retake score comes back in november, then upload it ?

 

[TexasPhysician]

sorry guys, im just trying to get everything straight. So i can submit my ERAS application with just my step 1 score ? and then once my retake score comes back in november, then upload it ?

No. If you had received the failed score after applications were submitted, you could have sat on it without schools knowing. When apps are submitted, all current steps go at 1 time.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

No. If you had received the failed score after applications were submitted, you could have sat on it without schools knowing. When apps are submitted, all current steps go at 1 time.

so i can only get interviews after my CK retake score comes back right ?

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Actually, you can be interviewed without your retake score, it is just less likely. Programs would have to trust you to graduate on time.