Just go to the cheapest school no matter what?

[deleted925031]

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[Flossoraptor2015]

First off congrats on getting accepted into dental school! The estimates look a little low for those schools, did you factor in the interest rate on loans (I think for Federal Plus loans about 6-7% which starts as soon as the loan is taken out) as well as the cost of living? I think it depends on several factors, like do you have any scholarships (HPSP, NHSC, etc.) or would you be taking out all loans? Do you know where you want to practice? If you are dead set on a specific location or state it can be helpful to go to a dental school in that state/region for licensure and networking. Do you want to specialize? If so, some specialties programs will charge tuition so that's an additional future cost to consider. It is good that you are thinking of the financial aspect prior to starting a program. Hope this helps

 

[Svart Aske]

Does the UCSF estimate include in-state tuition after year 1?

My personal suggestion is to look at a cheaper public school. I am a Penn grad and IMO the clinical education was lacking in some respects and I only recommend it with certain reservations. You can specialize out of anywhere as long as you get good grades.

 

[Combine33]

Absolutely 100% go to the cheapest school. Why pay more for the same abilities and license? Its not like your income will be larger bc you went to a more expensive school. You'll also be happy if in the future you choose to specialize. If you go to the cheaper school, and your res charges tuition, you'll be ahead of the average.

 

[RuffDay]

If the overall expense would be only ~30k more, then you might be able to afford to go to Penn, in my opinion. You do have a better chance of specializing if you attend Penn, as you can focus a lot on your extracurricular activities and everything outside of academics.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

You do have a better chance of specializing if you attend Penn, as you can focus a lot on your extracurricular activities and everything outside of academics.

Why don’t you have to focus on academics at UPenn? The misleading class ranking system?

Big Hoss

 

[Anondds87]

i always 100% advocate for the cheapest school. new grad dentists really don't know a lot - once you graduate you will probably do as many procedures in 3 months as you did in the whole time at dental school - so this experience is really pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.

however one thing i didn't realise was a thing until recently was the pass/fail schools. i met someone the other day in 1st year and he said he wants to specialise but didn't want to devote 4 years to getting the best grades to specialise and i had to agree somewhat with that mentality.

do pass/fail schools do you a service then in wanting to specialise? because you don't have to worry about your class rank and can relax more during those 4 years? i have no idea - interested to get others opinions on this.

 

[Combine33]

i always 100% advocate for the cheapest school. new grad dentists really don't know a lot - once you graduate you will probably do as many procedures in 3 months as you did in the whole time at dental school - so this experience is really pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.

however one thing i didn't realise was a thing until recently was the pass/fail schools. i met someone the other day in 1st year and he said he wants to specialise but didn't want to devote 4 years to getting the best grades to specialise and i had to agree somewhat with that mentality.

do pass/fail schools do you a service then in wanting to specialise? because you don't have to worry about your class rank and can relax more during those 4 years? i have no idea - interested to get others opinions on this.

They keep an internal class rank system that is sent to post grad programs, so you still have to worry about it.

 

[PreDentTechySon]

I thought I'd give a shot posting here to get feedback from those who are dentists rather than pre-dents since our perception may not be reality. So if you're lucky enough to have multiple options for schools is going to the cheapest school all that really matters?

I've been lucky enough to get into some schools some of which I'm really excited about and some of which I can see myself warming up to but don't have anything bad in particular. The issue is that the schools I'm really excited about is the most expensive of course while the others are cheap by today's standards because they are public schools.

The schools I'm most excited about are Penn and UCSF and I'm OOS. UCSF and Penn will both run me about $370k and $330k. The other public schools will be anywhere from $290k to $300k.

I will say finding a cost effective school is very important. Lots of people are getting saddled with debt and have no
clear plan of tackling it. That being said, I wouldn’t make that my only means of deciding a school. I would talk with some of the existing students/read up on the numbers and types of procedures being done at each school. I’ve met with people who chose to go to a state school where they basically did the bare minimum of everything. One person told me they were required to complete 45 adult prophys (cleanings) and 28 quadrants of Scaling and Root Planing while they only complete a minimal number of crowns. That’s pretty outrageous in my opinion considering most dentists don’t do those procedures once they graduate.

A lot of people will say “You learn basically the same thing at every dental school,” and to some degree that’s true, everyone comes out with fairly minimal experience still has a long ways to go before becoming a veteran. On the other hand, there are some schools which do a better job of training students to hit the ground running.

 

[Combine33]

I will say finding a cost effective school is very important. Lots of people are getting saddled with debt and have no
clear plan of tackling it. That being said, I wouldn’t make that my only means of deciding a school. I would talk with some of the existing students/read up on the numbers and types of procedures being done at each school. I’ve met with people who chose to go to a state school where they basically did the bare minimum of everything. One person told me they were required to complete 45 adult prophys (cleanings) and 28 quadrants of Scaling and Root Planing while they only complete a minimal number of crowns. That’s pretty outrageous in my opinion considering most dentists don’t do those procedures once they graduate.

A lot of people will say “You learn basically the same thing at every dental school,” and to some degree that’s true, everyone comes out with fairly minimal experience still has a long ways to go before becoming a veteran. On the other hand, there are some schools which do a better job of training students to hit the ground running.

Doing a couple more crowns or extractions compared to another graduate does not justify a large increase in cost. Also, just because theres a low requirement for a specific procedure doesnt mean you cant do more of them if you have them in your patient pool. Dental school and residency is what you make of it: Go to the cheapest one and learn as much as you can.

 

[allDAT]

Cheapest school.

 

[Extirpator]

Those aren’t insanely large price differences. If you feel a strong inclination toward one of the schools, for whatever reason that may be, I wouldn’t let a $30k price difference be the deciding factor.

It helps a lot if you have an idea of your goals immediately after school... if you know you want to go right into practice, you can point your education/experience that direction regardless of where you go... same applies to knowing a specialty you want to pursue. On the other hand, if you really don’t have future plans and want to keep options open, a pass/fail school with a strong reputation for residency placement is worth the 10-20% premium imo. It is definitively not equally easy to specialize from all schools. The difference may not be large, but it exists.

 

[swindoll]

Four years ago I chose to attend Penn over a much cheaper state dental school. From a purely financial stand point, I do think this decision was unwise. Do not delude yourself thinking you will graduate with less than $400k. Unless you're getting a strong financial support from your parents, Penn will run you at around $450k+ even if you're a recipient of their Dean's scholarship, like I was.

I also disagree that Penn helps you specialize.

Cheaper school all the way!

 

[P7898]

I will be in $150k in debt when I graduate. I chose not to attend any private schools merely for financial reasons. But hey, six-figure debt is nothing to brag about. I will still be stressed out to pay it off.

But the way I see it - less debt = more freedom. "Do you want your life to be better, worse, or stay the same? - Michael Gary Scott"

 

[allDAT]

I will be in $150k in debt when I graduate. I chose not to attend any private schools merely for financial reasons. But hey, six-figure debt is nothing to brag about. I will still be stressed out to pay it off.

But the way I see it - less debt = more freedom. "Do you want your life to be better, worse, or stay the same? - Michael Gary Scott"

You'll be able to tackle 150 in 5 years; less if you can keep your living expenses low and refinance to a better rate.

 

[P7898]

You'll be able to tackle 150 in 5 years; less if you can keep your living expenses low and refinance to a better rate.

Also a wife who is a GP in no debt helps ....still though. The quicker one makes money, the quicker you can put that into the stock market and start growing it. Or buying something that builds you equity and income - this is how to get ahead and this is why dentistry is a beautiful profession for the right price. Putting money towards loans decreases that amount.

I really wish people where taught amortization and compounding interest and more financial things. It is like schools are taking people for granted almost without the consumer knowing what they are getting into.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

Four years ago I chose to attend Penn over a much cheaper state dental school. From a purely financial stand point, I do think this decision was unwise. Do not delude yourself thinking you will graduate with less than $400k. Unless you're getting a strong financial support from your parents, Penn will run you at around $400k+ even if you're a recipient of their Dean's scholarship, like I was.

I also disagree that Penn helps you specialize.

Cheaper school all the way!

It is so refreshing to hear from someone who has already graduated from one of these schools. The predents screaming and yelling that the ivies are so much better really need to hold their tongues.

Penn must have a phenomenal marketing team if they’ve convinced so many posters on SDN that it’s the end all be all school.

 

[Cold Front]

Four years ago I chose to attend Penn over a much cheaper state dental school. From a purely financial stand point, I do think this decision was unwise. Do not delude yourself thinking you will graduate with less than $400k. Unless you're getting a strong financial support from your parents, Penn will run you at around $400k+ even if you're a recipient of their Dean's scholarship, like I was.

I also disagree that Penn helps you specialize.

Cheaper school all the way!

The 2019-2020 cost of attendance is about $500k for UPENN, closer to $530k with compounded interest. It’s definitely an uber expensive school, up there with midwestern, usc, BU, NYU and all the other private schools. Those monthly payments will be very steep for the new UPENN grads.


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[AONLINE]

I will be in $150k in debt when I graduate. I chose not to attend any private schools merely for financial reasons. But hey, six-figure debt is nothing to brag about. I will still be stressed out to pay it off.

But the way I see it - less debt = more freedom. "Do you want your life to be better, worse, or stay the same? - Michael Gary Scott"

I will graduate with a very similar amount of debt. That is because I got a lot of help from my parents - they paid for my housing as well as first year tuition. I think dentistry will be a good career for those who have the amount of debt like ours.

 

[P7898]

I will graduate with a very similar amount of debt. That is because I got a lot of help from my parents - they paid for my housing as well as first year tuition. I think dentistry will be a good career for those who have the amount of debt like ours.

Or scholarships like myself. No one has helped me. I agree although the only "thing" that will make dentistry good is our work ethic and persistence.

 

[Rambunctious]

I thought I'd give a shot posting here to get feedback from those who are dentists rather than pre-dents since our perception may not be reality. So if you're lucky enough to have multiple options for schools is going to the cheapest school all that really matters?

I've been lucky enough to get into some schools some of which I'm really excited about and some of which I can see myself warming up to but don't have anything bad in particular. The issue is that the schools I'm really excited about is the most expensive of course while the others are cheap by today's standards because they are public schools.

The schools I'm most excited about are Penn and UCSF and I'm OOS. UCSF and Penn will both run me about $370k and $330k. The other public schools will be anywhere from $290k to $300k.

UCSF all day

 

[mmc12]

Are employers gonna pay Ivy League grads more simply because they went to a “prestigious” school?

 

[ToothJockey]

Are employers gonna pay Ivy League grads more simply because they went to a “prestigious” school?

As a dentist you know its all about what you produce. It's not like a corporation or owner is going to give one dentist 25% collections because he graduated from Howard, and another dentist 35% collections because he graduated from Harvard. This isn't Law or Finance

 

[LFA20]

Are employers gonna pay Ivy League grads more simply because they went to a “prestigious” school?

Lol

 

[AONLINE]

As a dentist you know its all about what you produce. It's not like a corporation or owner is going to give one dentist 25% collections because he graduated from Howard, and another dentist 35% collections because he graduated from Harvard. This isn't Law or Finance

Out of curiosity, is that a common practice in law and finance?

 

[Flossoraptor2015]

Out of curiosity, is that a common practice in law and finance?

I've been told usually yes by my family and friends in law. Going to a more prestigious school in those fields are more important for the networking and career opportunities. Law schools are officially ranked and employers factor it into their hiring decisions. Many large law practices and corporations tend to hire and give preference to candidates from certain institutions or higher ranked schools. This means those graduates have a better chance at landing higher paid more coveted jobs. It is different in dentistry since our schools are not ranked.

 

[laundry]

Rule #1 - if you can, go to school where you want to practice.
Rule #2 - if you can't, go to the cheapest school.

Also, UCSF will allow you in-state after first year.

 

[AONLINE]

Rule #1 - if you can, go to school where you want to practice.
Rule #2 - if you can't, go to the cheapest school.

Say you want to practice in Boston, I think it’s still better to go to a cheap state school in the Midwest rather than Tufts, BU or Harvard. Just take the NERB (CDCA now, accepted in 48 states) and you can easily find a corporate job anywhere in this country.

 

[ToothJockey]

Out of curiosity, is that a common practice in law and finance?

Yes definitely. If you go to a bottom feeder school in law, you’ll be making like 50k-100k a year. If you go to a top school, like the ivies, that’s where the big money in law is. That’s when you’ll see the lawyers making 300-500k, they will get the opportunity to partner at these big firms. Similar thing in finance, if you go to a top MBA program like Wharton, then you have a good chance at breaking into Investment banking at a bulge bracket firm, as compared to if you went to some no name MBA your chances are much lower, almost non existent.

Funny enough, school name also matters in medicine, though not as much. If you go to a top 25 med school, you have a much better chance matching specialties like Derm and Ortho as compared to going to a no name school, or going to a DO school.


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[LFA20]

Yes definitely. If you go to a bottom feeder school in law, you’ll be making like 50k-100k a year. If you go to a top school, like the ivies, that’s where the big money in law is. That’s when you’ll see the lawyers making 300-500k, they will get the opportunity to partner at these big firms. Similar thing in finance, if you go to a top MBA program like Wharton, then you have a good chance at breaking into Investment banking at a bulge bracket firm, as compared to if you went to some no name MBA your chances are much lower, almost non existent.

Funny enough, school name also matters in medicine, though not as much. If you go to a top 25 med school, you have a much better chance matching specialties like Derm and Ortho as compared to going to a no name school, or going to a DO school.


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so dentistry is pretty much the only field where school name does not matter?

 

[ToothJockey]

so dentistry is pretty much the only field where school name does not matter?

I think there's other fields where school name matters even less, such as pharmacy or optometry. I think overall in healthcare, employers don't hire people based on what school they went to. However in the finance and law world, you only get into those big name firms if you went to a big name school, probably because you can network with other big name alumni at that big name firm.

 

[laundry]

Say you want to practice in Boston, I think it’s still better to go to a cheap state school in the Midwest rather than Tufts, BU or Harvard. Just take the NERB (CDCA now, accepted in 48 states) and you can easily find a corporate job anywhere in this country.

Sure, if you set your bar as low as a corporate job, go anywhere. But why would you ever settle for that? It’s like going to pharmacy school with end goal of working in Walmart.

 

[Debt Free DDS]

The amount of debt you get is a huge deal. It is really money and not monopoly money. It is hard to pay back. As long as it is not a much inferior education, go the cheapest one all the way.

 

[ToothJockey]

The amount of debt you get is a huge deal. It is really money and not monopoly money. It is hard to pay back. As long as it is not a much inferior education, go the cheapest one all the way.

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