Just how much better are your chances if you apply URM? Example...

[FIREitUP]

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Dear person,

Is you subconscious nagging you? Are you really a racist and trying desperately to clear that up in an anonymous internet forum?

From all I posted, all you were able to glean is that I accused everyone of being racist? That speaks more to you character.
Please read my post again, and if you must, give me a step-by-step breakdown of how you arrived at your interpretations from my post.

you got me. i'm a member of the underground. i just hope this doesn't get out past the internet forums.

 

[Dr Lyss]

The lower average stats for URM acceptances when compared to the average stats of accepted nonURM lead people to assume (possibly incorrectly) that wealthy/middle class URMs have an advantage over ORMs who are disadvantaged. That is all i am trying to say.

1. your comparison makes no sense to me. How do you parallel low MCAT/GPA with SES?

2. Schools can't see your financial information until after you are accepted. You don't need to show tax returns or anything like that to apply as disadvantaged, just an essay, so it is impossible for a school to know the socio-economic background of all of the applicants (URM & nonURM) before making their decisions. Just because someone doesn't apply as disadvantaged doesn't mean they are wealthy.

3. assumptions =/= reality. That's a pretty bold claim to make off of assumptions.

 

[nicole004]

That's horrible and let me say I do not agree with racism on any level...

but what you are experiencing is different. The racism you endure will ultimately not occur in the workplace, or in medical school or in random communities across America. Additionally, I am sure they are not saying look at the white (boy?) he's probably going to rob us, assault us, be a crappy employee etc.

Society is complicated. le sigh

This works both ways. I live in an urban place and my school was extremely diverse. I (as well as my friends) have had to put up with all sorts of racial slurs directed at my white skin and Italian heritage. They can yell at it me in the hallways or wherever, and it simply slips through the cracks because there is a HUGE double standard in society regarding this issue.

I'm not saying racism is right at all and the people who I describe in the above paragraph are the scum of the school/community, but racism comes full circle, not just against URMs.

 

[Gallix23]

That's horrible and let me say I do not agree with racism on any level...

but what you are experiencing is different. The racism you endure will ultimately not occur in the workplace, or in medical school or in random communities across America. Additionally, I am sure they are not saying look at the white (boy?) he's probably going to rob us, assault us, be a crappy employee etc.

Society is complicated. le sigh

I understand what you're saying and believe me I see coming from my "side" a lot as well and it makes me sick. It is especially true in the surrounding more "prosperous" (and predominantly white) cities when we would face them in sports and things, many of my non-white friends would get some terms thrown at them which would really aggravate me (but is easily settled in a football game 👍😀)

But yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I suppose I just pointed it out because the only way racism will ever totally end is if all parties involve stop, not just non-URM to URM or URM to non-URM

 

[strummin]

This works both ways. I live in an urban place and my school was extremely diverse. I (as well as my friends) have had to put up with all sorts of racial slurs directed at my white skin and Italian heritage. They can yell at it me in the hallways or wherever, and it simply slips through the cracks because there is a HUGE double standard in society regarding this issue.

Believe me, the racism you experience is VERY different from the racism experienced by all minorities, whether URM or ORM. The racism experienced by minorities is many times institutional racism. Whites rarely, if ever, experience this. Study after study has shown that many minorities, especially blacks, until today face discrimination in the workplace, in universities, basically in the entire society. Obama's election does not mean America is post-racial - in fact, some studies show that it has increased racist tendencies among many Americans.

Minorities are also stereotyped much more.. blacks are criminals, hispanics are illegal immigrants, brown people are terrorists etc. etc. And these affect them in many manners. I have many "brown" friends who absolutely DREAD going thru airport security - who have their patriotism questioned every single day. Is your patriotism questioned? If you grow a beard, will people start questioning your patriotism? How many blacks have grown to hate the police because of how they are always targeted? etc etc I could give you a hundred examples of how every minority experiences some degree of racism in this country.

Yes, whites experience racism. But if you think the racism experienced by whites is the same as the racism that minorities experience today, you are wrong.

 

[daisy44]

Believe me, the racism you experience is VERY different from the racism experienced by all minorities, whether URM or ORM. The racism experienced by minorities is many times institutional racism. Whites rarely, if ever, experience this. Study after study has shown that many minorities, especially blacks, until today face discrimination in the workplace, in universities, basically in the entire society. Obama's election does not mean America is post-racial - in fact, some studies show that it has increased racist tendencies among many Americans.

Minorities are also stereotyped much more.. blacks are criminals, hispanics are illegal immigrants, brown people are terrorists etc. etc. And these affect them in many manners. I have many "brown" friends who absolutely DREAD going thru airport security - who have their patriotism questioned every single day. Is your patriotism questioned? If you grow a beard, will people start questioning your patriotism? How many blacks have grown to hate the police because of how they are always targeted? etc etc I could give you a hundred examples of how every minority experiences some degree of racism in this country.

Yes, whites experience racism. But if you think the racism experienced by whites is the same as the racism that minorities experience today, you are wrong.

As an ORM, I have to agree with this. Members of my family and I have sometimes felt as though we're followed more in a store (like they're afraid we'll steal stuff). Also...sometimes, waspy sorority girls/soccer moms just treat you differently, look at you and talk to you a little condescendingly. It's rather subtle so i guess you don't realize if you're not in our shoes.

 

[yearn4ivy]

Believe me, the racism you experience is VERY different from the racism experienced by all minorities, whether URM or ORM. The racism experienced by minorities is many times institutional racism. Whites rarely, if ever, experience this. Study after study has shown that many minorities, especially blacks, until today face discrimination in the workplace, in universities, basically in the entire society. Obama's election does not mean America is post-racial - in fact, some studies show that it has increased racist tendencies among many Americans.

Minorities are also stereotyped much more.. blacks are criminals, hispanics are illegal immigrants, brown people are terrorists etc. etc. And these affect them in many manners. I have many "brown" friends who absolutely DREAD going thru airport security - who have their patriotism questioned every single day. Is your patriotism questioned? If you grow a beard, will people start questioning your patriotism? How many blacks have grown to hate the police because of how they are always targeted? etc etc I could give you a hundred examples of how every minority experiences some degree of racism in this country.

Yes, whites experience racism. But if you think the racism experienced by whites is the same as the racism that minorities experience today, you are wrong.

👍 ditto.

I think is what some people do not understand. Institutional racism is very different from personal prejudice. Institutional racism comes from historical oppression and fosters a normative, yet covet discriminatory practices that becomes enmeshed across all facets of societies.

Even mundane things like trying to buy a car...a potential buyer may even get a higher quote or get a higher interest rate on a personal loan, mortgage just because of a person's race

 

[millepora]

no

 

[strummin]

INSTEAD OF ARGUING, LOOK AT THIS ARTICLE, EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE (STATISTICALLY SPEAKING)!

http://www.ceousa.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=162&Itemid=54

It was a study done by the UMSM, and they actually put some statistics behind the skeptism.

Center for Equal Opportunity = conservative think-tank traditionally against affirmative action

Robert Lerner / Althea Nagai = quick google search shows that they are far-right authors who have argued things like "[American textbooks are destroying our young minds] by bowing to feminism and left-wing black politics".

Just a note to anyone visiting the link: don't expect the authors to be unbiased. In fact, expect them to be VERY biased.

 

[millepora]

I agree

 

[strummin]

I agree the actual paragraphs are pretty biased, but I found the statistics to enlightening. The only other place I have seen put the statistics in a juxtaposition before was AAMC.

This is what one of the paragraphs says:

For example, in 1996, the probability of admission for a black applicant with a total MCAT score of 45 and a science GPA of 3.5 was 97 percent— roughly three times the probability of a similarly qualified white, Asian, or Hispanic. The probability of admission for a white applicant with the same
credentials was 33 percent; for an Asian, 28 percent; and for a Hispanic, 37 percent.

So a white person with a 45 MCAT and a 3.5 sGPA had a 33% chance of admission in 1996? I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. A 45 MCAT? Nobody even gets a 45 MCAT. How on Earth did they compute these probabilities?

 

[bobsmith]

This is what one of the paragraphs says:



So a white person with a 45 MCAT and a 3.5 sGPA had a 33% chance of admission in 1996? I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. A 45 MCAT? Nobody even gets a 45 MCAT. How on Earth did they compute these probabilities?

They use a weird weighted MCAT score, so it's not really out of 45:

As noted above, the MCAT is made up of four subtests: verbal reasoning, physical science, biological science, and writing. USMS’s weighted total score is obtained by doubling the writing score and adding that number to the physical science, biological science, and verbal reasoning subscores.

 

[teenmachinery1]

They use a weird weighted MCAT score, so it's not really out of 45:

Wow...

Anyone find this weighted MCAT score beyond powerful stupid?

 

[yearn4ivy]

INSTEAD OF ARGUING, LOOK AT THIS ARTICLE, EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE (STATISTICALLY SPEAKING)!

http://www.ceousa.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=162&Itemid=54

It was a study done by the UMSM, and they actually put some statistics behind the skeptism.

I do not think this article contains scholarly research, is objective or at least, unbiased (as in it has a conservative agenda, since that politicizes education).

I would certainly not believe anything in this article and would never cite this as a research source