Just read the comments...

[azrael87]

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austinap and Substance P:
You're both making valid points here. I don't consider myself economically aware enough (something I'm working to correct) to contribute much to the discussion.

My only suggestion is that one of you start a new thread specific to the subject of health care reform discussion, theories, and criticism and leave the link here. This way people who would be interested to see what others think (like myself) and people who do have ideas to contribute know where to do so now and in the future.

 

[ImNotBritish]

I'm not defending what the doctors did in this case - I know my confidence in them would definitely be shaken had this happened to me. But yet, I can't get over the fact that she's suing for "severe and serious personal injuries," yet she didn't even know what had happened until she returned a month later. The injuries can't have been too severe if you didn't notice them...🙄

 

[Hoody]

And also, last time I checked, there are not too many professions that anyone can get into, go to school for 2 years after high school, and make $50-75k /yr. Nurses aren't exactly doing their work for peanuts.

Ha. Keep believing this. I love when premeds get themselves worked up over things that aren't true.

If not more!!!

Show me where, and I'll apply cause everywhere I have looked or have been offered is nowhere near the over inflated numbers you guys regurgitate in every other post.

That is the thing that really pisses me off about people saying docs have it so much better than nurses.

Who said this? Or is this just what you think...

If Docs are directly responsible if something bad happens to the pt

Nurses are also responsible if they eff up

they have to pay for malpractice insurance

As do I. Granted it's not hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but I still pay hundreds of dollars a year for it.

If work long hours

I also work long hours.

If and do endless amounts of paperwork.

I also do endless amounts of paperwork. In general, more than the docs.

If Nurses on the other hand get to spend a lot more time with the pts

get to? you mean, have to. Spending time with the Pts IS the job. duh.

make a ton of money for the education, and only work 36 hours a week!!!

Um, I work 40hrs a week, minimum (don't act like we get out right at shift change either). And you will also make a ton of money for your education, far more than any other profession who also spends 4 years in graduate school.

In your opinion, exactly HOW much do you think nurses should make? 10K? 20K? 30K? Not sure why it is that you guys devalue nurses so much. And the average floor nurse at that. I understand why you may feel threatened by NPs and PAs, however, you keep forgetting that without floor nurses, whom you constantly bash for being overpaid and underworked, you could not do your job. period.

 

[Blesbok]

Ha. Keep believing this. I love when premeds get themselves worked up over things that aren't true.

Baby, I am twice the premed you will ever be.

And show me how it isn't true. RNs are still alive and well in our society and can easily get a job making $25/hr with plenty of overtime if they want it.

 

[DrYoda]

Show me where, and I'll apply cause everywhere I have looked or have been offered is nowhere near the over inflated numbers you guys regurgitate in every other post.

I'm well aware those numbers are above average, but I don't think they are unrealistic for the upper paid group of nurses. I personally know several nurses who make more than the numbers quoted in this thread. Some nurses, especially those who got in before the current nursing craze, have managed to land some pretty sweet gigs.

 

[Blesbok]

The numbers I am quoting are for nurses working in places like a trauma center, which may not be the most desirable position, but doesn't change the fact that the job is easy to come by with only an RN.

 

[austinap]

The numbers I am quoting are for nurses working in places like a trauma center, which may not be the most desirable position, but doesn't change the fact that the job is easy to come by with only an RN.

Listen, do you guys want to go be nurses? Then go be nurses. Nurses and doctors do significantly different work and have significantly different levels of understanding. If you're primarily concerned about the money, you'd probably be best off doing something else anyway.

I mean really. If you're already getting into pissing matches with the nurses as pre-meds or first-year med students, you're in for a long career.

 

[Blesbok]

Listen, do you guys want to go be nurses? Then go be nurses. Nurses and doctors do significantly different work and have significantly different levels of understanding. If you're primarily concerned about the money, you'd probably be best off doing something else anyway.

I mean really. If you're already getting into pissing matches with the nurses as pre-meds or first-year med students, you're in for a long career.

I am neither a premed nor a first year med student. And I am not getting into a pissing match with nurses at all. I think they are great and I would never want to do their job. What I do have a problem with is obama. I have a problem with obama trying to play them off as the saviors of medicine and making them out to be the only people in medicine that care about the patients. The fact of the matter is that if you are lucky if the nurse makes it two steps away from the room before they are bitching about their patients and calling doctors over petty **** to make their jobs easier. Sure there are exceptions, but most nurses are in it because the job pays well with little training, not because they are these bleeding heart saviors. I can guarantee there would be an even bigger problem finding nurses if they only made 30k a year after their 2 years of training.

 

[Substance P]

Ha. Keep believing this. I love when premeds get themselves worked up over things that aren't true.
Show me where, and I'll apply cause everywhere I have looked or have been offered is nowhere near the over inflated numbers you guys regurgitate in every other post.
Who said this? Or is this just what you think...
Nurses are also responsible if they eff up
As do I. Granted it's not hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but I still pay hundreds of dollars a year for it.
I also work long hours.
I also do endless amounts of paperwork. In general, more than the docs.
get to? you mean, have to. Spending time with the Pts IS the job. duh.
Um, I work 40hrs a week, minimum (don’t act like we get out right at shift change either). And you will also make a ton of money for your education, far more than any other profession who also spends 4 years in graduate school.

In your opinion, exactly HOW much do you think nurses should make? 10K? 20K? 30K? Not sure why it is that you guys devalue nurses so much. And the average floor nurse at that. I understand why you may feel threatened by NPs and PAs, however, you keep forgetting that without floor nurses, whom you constantly bash for being overpaid and underworked, you could not do your job. period.

Wowza! You are taking all my quotes and/or statements out of context. I have plenty of friends and colleagues who are nurses, which is where I hear the statements I've made. I also hear them from nurses I just happen to meet in passing. Ask yourself this, how would you feel if every time you told a doctor you were going to be a nurse they said, "you're too nice to be a nurse, if you are going to do it don't be a b!tch/d!ck like all the other nurses..." You wouldn't and that's what we get when we tell nurses we're going into medicine. I'm just saying that if you're going to say my statements are derived in my own head you might want to check what comes out of your own mouth first (based on how defensive you are, I'm assuming you're a nurse).


Hospital's would not function without nurses, so you can rest assured that I'm not saying you are overpaid. I'm saying you b!tch a lot for the money you are paid and for the time you work... Maybe not you, but your post certainly isn't making me think you don't. You pay a few hundred dollars a year for malpractice? Are you seriously trying to make that a valid arguement? I know you're responsible, but the doctor who's patient you're working on is also responsible for the patients you or s/he could screw up on. You don't have as much responsibility and to say so is ridiculous. I'm not trying to diminish your role, because I can't, it is a pivotal role at any hospital or medical center, I'm saying that when you b!tch about your job, your patients, and your hours, you should just take a moment to think about who you're bitching to.

I am neither a premed nor a first year med student. And I am not getting into a pissing match with nurses at all. I think they are great and I would never want to do their job. What I do have a problem with is obama. I have a problem with obama trying to play them off as the saviors of medicine and making them out to be the only people in medicine that care about the patients. The fact of the matter is that if you are lucky if the nurse makes it two steps away from the room before they are bitching about their patients and calling doctors over petty **** to make their jobs easier. Sure there are exceptions, but most nurses are in it because the job pays well with little training, not because they are these bleeding heart saviors. I can guarantee there would be an even bigger problem finding nurses if they only made 30k a year after their 2 years of training.

qft

 

[Food]

Frankly, I think many doctors deserve every bit of public outcry against them. Mostly, because they make the struggle for young aspiring docs like us, even more uphill than it should be.

 

[TexasFight]

Frankly, I think many doctors deserve every bit of public outcry against them. Mostly, because they make the struggle for young aspiring docs like us, even more uphill than it should be.

Can you explain this a little more?

 

[Hoody]

Ask yourself this, how would you feel if every time you told a doctor you were going to be a nurse they said, "you're too nice to be a nurse, if you are going to do it don't be a b!tch/d!ck like all the other nurses..." You wouldn't and that's what we get when we tell nurses we're going into medicine.

I'm saying that when you b!tch about your job, your patients, and your hours, you should just take a moment to think about who you're bitching to.

I wasn't b!itching about my job. You were. 🙄

 

[Food]

Can you explain this a little more?

In other words, I honestly do believe that there are plenty of doctors out there who do not care enough for their patients. I have shadowed over 4 doctors for over 150 hours of total shadowing, and I know how busy and stressful the lifestyle is. Yet, most of the doctors I shadow have made it a priority to at least convince their patients that they are the most important thing in the world. Too often, I hear or read stories about doctors who don't do that. Example: My father went in to see a cardiologist for a strange heart murmur / condition he had recently been having. The cardiologist never came in to even talk to my dad - a nurse basically came in and took vitals. Even if my father's condition was nothing to be worried about - he had a right to see the doctor, as this is what the appointment was for. This is the type of behavior I believe deserves public attention. And doctors like these give the honest, sincere doctors a bad name in general.

The best evidence for this is that the doc I'm shadowing (an extraordinarily nice and competent surgeon) has to deal with patients who are already antagonistic towards doctors because of bad past experiences. They complain of being neglected, patronized, and being given false information. Even if the patients are exaggerating, I think it is wrong that these patients are being sent home with such a bad impression of the care they are receiving. Clearly there is a problem, and at some level, the physicians must have some responsibility. You can't always blame it on the nurses or the coordinating staff.

 

[randombetch]

Hoody continually proves to have an IQ below average and as much logic as a monkey.

People need to keep people like Hoody out of medical school and into nursing school where she belongs.