just wondering...

[beaut1ful m1nd]

u know how its easier for certain ethnicities to get into med school, i was jus wondering if the same goes for pod school?

for ex. it would be good enough for an african american or hispanic student to get a 26 on the mcat and a 3.3 gpa to get into med school while an asian or south asian student competing for a seat in the same yr would need a 3.9 and like a 35 on the mcat. (it makes sense for the requirements to be this high b/c every other doctor (md) is some kind of asian)

Is it the opposite for pod school? b/c from what i know, the minority in pod schools is the asian/south asian group b/c there arent as many asian pods.

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[Dr_Feelgood]

u know how its easier for certain ethnicities to get into med school, i was jus wondering if the same goes for pod school?

for ex. it would be good enough for an african american or hispanic student to get a 26 on the mcat and a 3.3 gpa to get into med school while an asian or south asian student competing for a seat in the same yr would need a 3.9 and like a 35 on the mcat. (it makes sense for the requirements to be this high b/c every other doctor (md) is some kind of asian)

Is it the opposite for pod school? b/c from what i know, the minority in pod schools is the asian/south asian group b/c there arent as many asian pods.

I'm would not say that this is true. I believe that in podiatry a good students will be accept based on his/her accomplishments outside of being born to a certain ethnicity. This maybe true due to the fact that outside of TUSPM all of the podiatry schools are privately funded. Or do the fact that most pod schools have a very short turn around for acceptance. Generally, you are accept within the first week. So your timing and meeting a schools minimum requirements (which will vary from school to school) more than anything will help you get accepted.

 

[Feli]

There are quite a few Asian pods. CSPM has the highest proportion.

These race/ethnicity topics are never really great things to discuss, but, to help you out, I think a minority or international student status may help more at some pod schools than others. When you consider that DMU or AZPod are 80 or 90% Caucasian students and barely any Asian students (well, barely any of any non-white ethnic group), then those schools may want a bit more ethnic or international diversity for the sake of stats and choose a minority ethnic group or international candidate over a similarly qualified Caucasian. There's no real way to know, though; I really doubt the admissions at any school (MD, DPM, or any program) would ever admit anything like this even though the stats clearly show these practices are commonplace at many competitive grad schools.

On the other hand, when you look at a pod school like Barry or NYCPM, they're less than 50% Caucasian and the diversity is already pretty vast, so unless you are Alaskan or something, there's really no such thing as URMs...

http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistic...Enrl by COLLEGE, ETH ID and GENDER 05-06.pdf

 

[beaut1ful m1nd]

thank u guys for ur responses...i personally feel that this is an uncomfortable topic to discuss, but it is the truth (in my opinion)....i dont mean to offend anyone, i just wanted to know if the admissions committee takes that factor into consideration along with everything else. I dont like that idea b/c people should be granted admission based on his/her credentials/accomplishments/passion for podiatry etc.

I just asked this question out of curiosity, i dont advocate it. The only reason i used the example in my previous post is because i had been apart of this summer program at SUNY Downstate medical center and i remember the students discussing this issue with current med students there and some members on the admissions committee. I'm positive that i remember them saying that they had higher expectations for the asian students, just because there are so many in the field.

 

[txlioness]

thank u guys for ur responses...i personally feel that this is an uncomfortable topic to discuss, but it is the truth (in my opinion)....i dont mean to offend anyone, i just wanted to know if the admissions committee takes that factor into consideration along with everything else. I dont like that idea b/c people should be granted admission based on his/her credentials/accomplishments/passion for podiatry etc.

I just asked this question out of curiosity, i dont advocate it. The only reason i used the example in my previous post is because i had been apart of this summer program at SUNY Downstate medical center and i remember the students discussing this issue with current med students there and some members on the admissions committee. I'm positive that i remember them saying that they had higher expectations for the asian students, just because there are so many in the field.

Yikes if that is the case at that school then they are setting a group of people up for failure from the jump. The school should have high expectations of everyone they admit, not just one particular ethnicity.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

thank u guys for ur responses...i personally feel that this is an uncomfortable topic to discuss, but it is the truth (in my opinion)....i dont mean to offend anyone, i just wanted to know if the admissions committee takes that factor into consideration along with everything else. I dont like that idea b/c people should be granted admission based on his/her credentials/accomplishments/passion for podiatry etc.

I just asked this question out of curiosity, i dont advocate it. The only reason i used the example in my previous post is because i had been apart of this summer program at SUNY Downstate medical center and i remember the students discussing this issue with current med students there and some members on the admissions committee. I'm positive that i remember them saying that they had higher expectations for the asian students, just because there are so many in the field.

I understand your point. I think that it is helpful to discuss race, gender, religion, ect b/c it gives prospective and understanding to those that are open minded within the discussion. I have and probably never will understand how race plays into medicine, but it does. I understand why it is important to have strong representation of all races and genders b/c it adds understanding and strength to any program. I could not image understanding what it is like to be a black male or a asian female so I may miss important things when treating a patient. I hope not but I can't say for sure. I do think that this issue is unique to the US (and maybe a very few other countries). I don't image that the admission's board in Mexico or China say, we need more minorities.

Again, I don't think that race is an issue at any pod school. I could be wrong. I don't believe that DMU is worried about its racial make up. Would they welcome diversity? Of course, but I don't think that most minority students are looking to move to Iowa; they probably have many preconceived notions about the area. This means less minority applicants, therefore less minority students. Now, compare that to NYCPM or Barry, they have higher minority populations within the city and most people from large cities think that Miami or NY is more comfortable. Heck why is there a high population of LDSers at DMU? Comfort and a belief that Iowa is safe and good place for families.

I still don't think race comes into play when you apply to DMU. I am not a minority so I maybe wrong. I also don't think it matters at other schools. I have never heard of a quota like I have at MD programs.

 

[dpmgrad]

.

 

[txlioness]

I understand your point. I think that it is helpful to discuss race, gender, religion, ect b/c it gives prospective and understanding to those that are open minded within the discussion. I have and probably never will understand how race plays into medicine, but it does. I understand why it is important to have strong representation of all races and genders b/c it adds understanding and strength to any program. I could not image understanding what it is like to be a black male or a asian female so I may miss important things when treating a patient. I hope not but I can't say for sure. I do think that this issue is unique to the US (and maybe a very few other countries). I don't image that the admission's board in Mexico or China say, we need more minorities.

Again, I don't think that race is an issue at any pod school. I could be wrong. I don't believe that DMU is worried about its racial make up. Would they welcome diversity? Of course, but I don't think that most minority students are looking to move to Iowa; they probably have many preconceived notions about the area. This means less minority applicants, therefore less minority students.

I still don't think race comes into play when you apply to DMU. I am not a minority so I maybe wrong. I also don't think it matters at other schools. I have never heard of a quota like I have at MD programs.

This comment is tetering on the edge, don't you think??

Seems like you have some preconceived notions about what minorities think. I would think that most people regardless of race would just want to attend a good school with a good reputation. I myself looked at DMU, but felt that the job market for my husband would be better in Philly, Cali, or Chicago. IMy choice of where to attend had nothing to do with the racial makeup of each city.

 

[txlioness]

There are quite a few Asian pods. CSPM has the highest proportion.

These race/ethnicity topics are never really great things to discuss, but, to help you out, I think a minority or international student status may help more at some pod schools than others. When you consider that DMU or AZPod are 80 or 90% Caucasian students and barely any Asian students (well, barely any of any non-white ethnic group), then those schools may want a bit more ethnic or international diversity for the sake of stats and choose a minority ethnic group or international candidate over a similarly qualified Caucasian. There's no real way to know, though; I really doubt the admissions at any school (MD, DPM, or any program) would ever admit anything like this even though the stats clearly show these practices are commonplace at many competitive grad schools.

On the other hand, when you look at a pod school like Barry or NYCPM, they're less than 50% Caucasian and the diversity is already pretty vast, so unless you are Alaskan or something, there's really no such thing as URMs...

http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistic...Enrl by COLLEGE, ETH ID and GENDER 05-06.pdf

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

I understand your point. I think that it is helpful to discuss race, gender, religion, ect b/c it gives prospective and understanding to those that are open minded within the discussion. I have and probably never will understand how race plays into medicine, but it does. I understand why it is important to have strong representation of all races and genders b/c it adds understanding and strength to any program. I could not image understanding what it is like to be a black male or a asian female so I may miss important things when treating a patient. I hope not but I can't say for sure. I do think that this issue is unique to the US (and maybe a very few other countries). I don't image that the admission's board in Mexico or China say, we need more minorities.

Again, I don't think that race is an issue at any pod school. I could be wrong. I don't believe that DMU is worried about its racial make up. Would they welcome diversity? Of course, but I don't think that most minority students are looking to move to Iowa; they probably have many preconceived notions about the area. This means less minority applicants, therefore less minority students. Now, compare that to NYCPM or Barry, they have higher minority populations within the city and most people from large cities think that Miami or NY is more comfortable. Heck why is there a high population of LDSers at DMU? Comfort and a belief that Iowa is safe and good place for families.

I still don't think race comes into play when you apply to DMU. I am not a minority so I maybe wrong. I also don't think it matters at other schools. I have never heard of a quota like I have at MD programs.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

This comment is tetering on the edge, don't you think??

Seems like you have some preconceived notions about what minorities think. I would think that most people regardless of race would just want to attend a good school with a good reputation. I myself looked at DMU, but felt that the job market for my husband would be better in Philly, Cali, or Chicago. IMy choice of where to attend had nothing to do with the racial makeup of each city.

I dont think he is tetering on the edge. It is just his opinion. Everyone has preconceived notions about places they have heard about, it is natural. Growing up, to me, North Las Vegas was the ghetto and filled with criminals (my dad is from there originally).
Is it true? Probably somewhat, but also not to the degree of pre-conceived notions I once held.

I have never been to Iowa and have heard little of it. Do I have pre-conceived notions? You bet; corn fed, right leaning white farm boys. Is that reality? Probably not. (well, not as much as I think lol)

SOrry so long winded. My only point is it probably is a REALITY that some people avoid Iowa because of what they think it is. I know I avoid California because of all the horror stories I hear about cost of living.

Do I wish ethnicity had nothing to do w/ life and getting a job and into school etc.? I sure do. Does it in actuality affect things? Again, I think so.

 

[Cheetos]

I just asked this question out of curiosity, i dont advocate it. The only reason i used the example in my previous post is because i had been apart of this summer program at SUNY Downstate medical center and i remember the students discussing this issue with current med students there and some members on the admissions committee. I'm positive that i remember them saying that they had higher expectations for the asian students, just because there are so many in the field.

Coming from members of the admissions committee, that seems like a very risky thing to say for a potential lawsuit given that the SUNY universities are all public universities.

 

[Cheetos]

I dont think he is tetering on the edge. It is just his opinion. Everyone has preconceived notions about places they have heard about, it is natural. Growing up, to me, North Las Vegas was the ghetto and filled with criminals (my dad is from there originally).
Is it true? Probably somewhat, but also not to the degree of pre-conceived notions I once held.

I have never been to Iowa and have heard little of it. Do I have pre-conceived notions? You bet; corn fed, right leaning white farm boys. Is that reality? Probably not. (well, not as much as I think lol)

SOrry so long winded. My only point is it probably is a REALITY that some people avoid Iowa because of what they think it is. I know I avoid California because of all the horror stories I hear about cost of living.

Do I wish ethnicity had nothing to do w/ life and getting a job and into school etc.? I sure do. Does it in actuality affect things? Again, I think so.

I hate to admit it but coming from Cali, I'm a big fan of sunny weather. Iowa's freezing winters scares the crap out me That was my pre-conceived notion and it came true when my car door was frozen shut the morning of my interview

 

[blooh]

hate being asian, have to compete with all the other asians
- Danny

its funny how asians all choose the medical field... md, dds, pods, pt

 

[cool_vkb]

hate being asian, have to compete with all the other asians
- Danny

its funny how asians all choose the medical field... md, dds, pods, pt

My younger cousin said to his dad that he wanted to be a chef like Emeril and open his own restaurant and have a TV show. And that was like the worst news his dad could ever get. he felt sick for 1 week and poor son had to change his decision and go to Univ for taking pre-med classes

I guess may be the 3rd or 4th US born generations of asians might start looking around and finally realize that life is just not about engineering and medicine and Pharmacy is not at all considered as backup school for people who failed to get in medicine by all people. There are many more careers then this.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

This comment is tetering on the edge, don't you think??

Seems like you have some preconceived notions about what minorities think. I would think that most people regardless of race would just want to attend a good school with a good reputation. I myself looked at DMU, but felt that the job market for my husband would be better in Philly, Cali, or Chicago. IMy choice of where to attend had nothing to do with the racial makeup of each city.

I'm not trying to insult minority students, but the majority of minority pod students that I have run into have had some pre-conceived notions. right or wrong. If I remember right the 2000 census had Dm minority population at about 8% black, 3% asian, and 6% hispanic. When you figure out what that translates to in absolute terms, that is ~16, 000, ~6,000 and ~12, 000, respectively. i would guess that they would lead to some pre-conceived notions.

You yourself stated a pre-conceieved notion. I would dare to say that is is easier to secure a well paying job in DM than those other areas for a number of reasons: low cost of living means a 30K salary is equal to a 50k salary, less competition, strong positioning in various sectors including insurance and banking, ect. If you husband does something that is more narrow field such as art or acting, then you thought is right and NY and Chicago have more career options. But if you are talking just regular business, marketing, ect then your thought on the opportunities is in accurate.

 

[gustydoc]

I don't know about ethnicity but as far as certain demographics being predominate in podiatry, there is some of that going on. I cannot beleive how many morman students there are in this profession. Don't get me wrong I am good friends with most of the morman students at school and don't have a problem with the morman or any other religion. Is the profession headed for an LDS takeover? Possibly.

 

[cool_vkb]

..

 

[txlioness]

I'm not trying to insult minority students, but the majority of minority pod students that I have run into have had some pre-conceived notions. right or wrong. If I remember right the 2000 census had Dm minority population at about 8% black, 3% asian, and 6% hispanic. When you figure out what that translates to in absolute terms, that is ~16, 000, ~6,000 and ~12, 000, respectively. i would guess that they would lead to some pre-conceived notions.

You yourself stated a pre-conceieved notion. I would dare to say that is is easier to secure a well paying job in DM than those other areas for a number of reasons: low cost of living means a 30K salary is equal to a 50k salary, less competition, strong positioning in various sectors including insurance and banking, ect. If you husband does something that is more narrow field such as art or acting, then you thought is right and NY and Chicago have more career options. But if you are talking just regular business, marketing, ect then your thought on the opportunities is in accurate.

What i stated had to do with the job market, not someone's race regarding whether or not they wanted to live in Des Moines.

Our decision was based on a rather normal job search while I applying and interviewing. We just got really lucky that alot of the responses for employment came from the area in which I really wanted to go to school.

But the goal was for my spouse to find employment, since he will be the sole breadwinner for the next 4 years.

 

[blooh]

My younger cousin said to his dad that he wanted to be a chef like Emeril and open his own restaurant and have a TV show. And that was like the worst news his dad could ever get. he felt sick for 1 week and poor son had to change his decision and go to Univ for taking pre-med classes

I guess may be the 3rd or 4th US born generations of asians might start looking around and finally realize that life is just not about engineering and medicine and Pharmacy is not at all considered as backup school for people who failed to get in medicine by all people. There are many more careers then this.

ahah yea my parents are like that, i was a premed major but decided after getting my paramedics certification that it really wasnt for me... ended on changing to predent, and now deciding between dent or pod..
sigh i dunno i think its like embedded into 1st generation parents mind that medicine is where the money is at and thats where you will gain respect... i guess its true in a way since we are first gen so we have to pave the way, since this is white america and we have to gain respect somewhere
- Danny

and i also hate how asian parents thing school is soo easy, alright u dont make it as a brain surgeon, backup plan is a regular doctor
lol

 

[Feli]

...I have and probably never will understand how race plays into medicine, but it does...

I think the basis is mainly in communication^; I can tell you that after one day of clinic . The best doctor for John Doe is probably not the best doctor for Jaun Doezalez if you catch my drift. A red hot student of ethnicity X who aces board exams, graduates with honors, finishes a top residency, etc isn't all that functionally great if he can barey even communicate with a patient of ethnicity Y who does not speak or understand the national language. The best diagnostic and path knowledge are sorely wasted if one cannot even gain a proper history, and patient education is virtually useless if it can't be understood. For that patient, a middle-of-the-pack student of their own ethnicity Y, who can speak and understand their native language, would be functionally superior even if the latter student doesn't perform as well in the academic and clinical "measurables."

The AAMC has certainly decided that matriculating medical students with a variety of ethnic backgrounds are needed, and measures are being taken to see that through.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm
I know it's frustrating for majority applicants who see URMs with lower stats matriculate while they are waitlisted or rejected, but I think that building some balance and getting physicians from a variety of ethnic backgrounds is ultimately important due to the communication and patient comfort/trust reasoning. Regardless of how a student gets into the programs, the curriculum and board exams will still ensure (one can hope) that all students are competent when they graduate and gain licensure.

I agree that there's no real way to know if pod schools select based on ethnicity in the way MD programs do. There's certainly no Morehouse or Howard in podiatry schools, but a minority status certainly may not hurt at some of the pod schools which have a vast majority of Caucasian students. Again, there's no way to know, though...

...I think that it is helpful to discuss race, gender, religion, ect b/c it gives prospective and understanding to those that are open minded within the discussion...

I agree on this point also.^ Sensitive topic... sensitive topic, but I agree that discussing these issues further understanding. One has to keep an open mind or it always turns bad, though. I hope my post isn't misinterpreted...

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

What i stated had to do with the job market, not someone's race regarding whether or not they wanted to live in Des Moines.

Our decision was based on a rather normal job search while I applying and interviewing. We just got really lucky that alot of the responses for employment came from the area in which I really wanted to go to school.

But the goal was for my spouse to find employment, since he will be the sole breadwinner for the next 4 years.

I understand what you are staying. My comment to more along the lines that people assume that the job market is better in other areas such as Chicago, NY, ect b/c of number of jobs. But you must remember that they are about 5 to 10 times larger. Therefore, they need to have 5-10 times more jobs to be equal to DM. You also must consider other factors such as COL vs. income.

I'm not trying to argue. My comment is just that the numbers lead people to make assumptions. This is human nature. Whether the assumption has to do with diversity or racial atmospheres, job markets, or entertainment, people make assumptions. Heck, I would dare to guess that, as I stated before, most people believe that DM is a safer place to live. One looks at the crime rate and total crimes in NY and Chicago and assumes. But there are parts of DM that are crime ridden also, just like parts of Chicago are super safe.