Kaiser Permanente Medical School

[Chromium Surfer]

What is the general consensus about this school? How will it be viewed, is it safe to apply here, what should applicants be aware of?

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[efle]

Uh, isn't the first class enrolling in like two years?

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Yeah I believe so, I'm just curious that's all!

 

[aaronrodgers]

lots of clinical sites probably in all specialties, they have a plethoras of MDs and PhDs, being in SoCal will probably get loads of applications, I think they might look a lot like Mayo at a superficial level

 

[gyngyn]

Every new school has the same issue for its first students: no residency program director has much of an idea of what their grads are going to be like.

Luckily, Kaiser also has a boatload of residencies.

 

[lightblueelephant]

I am surprised to see Kaiser opening a school, what is its name?

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Every new school has the same issue for its first students: no residency program director has much of an idea of what their grads are going to be like.

Luckily, Kaiser also has a boatload of residencies.

Gonnif that's what I was thinking but I was wondering if Kaiser would be treated differently since they have a lot of residencies, and have been a training site for Med students and residents in the past. That's partially why I asked this question.

Gyngyn, how do you think the other Cali schools will view Kaiser?

 

[gyngyn]

Gonnif that's what I was thinking but I was wondering if Kaiser would be treated differently since they have a lot of residencies, and have been a training site for Med students and residents in the past. That's partially why I asked this question.

Gyngyn, how do you think the other Cali schools will view Kaiser?

They have considered a medical school for decades and have done all the necessary groundwork to make it a success.
They have ample resources and commitment so it should be fine.
The only question is how they are going to incentivize primary care specialties since this is their goal (I'm told).

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

I hear they will be accepting applications starting next cycle? Is this true? Should we expect to apply through AMCAS or Paypal like CNU?

 

[SDMEDED]

Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

I’m an Emergency Physician with Kaiser Permanente, the Program Director for our Emergency Medicine Residency and one of several passionate faculty working on the curriculum for the KP SOM... a bit more about me and my involvement in the school here: bit.ly/2hFYDZO (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year. The School of Medicine will expand on KP’s long commitment to medical education which dates back >60 years and is home to over 600 residents/year in every major specialty. We currently play host to 1000’s of medical students and residents from other institutions and are excited to deepen our commitment to med ed with a school of our own.

We’re breaking from the long tradition of basic sciences in the first two years followed by clinical sciences in the second two years. Our students will have clinical experiences from day one and learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of the patient. They’re will be a strong focus on health systems, health equity, technology and team-based care. While there certainly will be deep exposure to primary care, students will be exposed to all of our medical and surgical specialties, women’s health and emergency medicine.

A particular strength of the school will be our tightly knit, integrated network of physicians, medical and ancillary staff, hospitals and medical buildings. Students will learn in traditional settings, but will also be able to leverage our comprehensive health records system, and learn from innovative approaches to care such as telemedicine and community and home-based care... all within the same healthcare system and all delivered by our more than 20,000 Permanente physicians and countless other team members.

To stay connected and learn more, you can check out our website or follow us on Twitter...

• Web: k-p.li/2yhlzWq (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)
• Twitter: @KPMedSchool

To follow me/our residency program:

• Twitter: @MattSilverMD
• Twitter: @SDMEDED

 

[Goro]

The development of this model of medical education will be fascinating to follow. Will we see a trend develop where instead of med schools having hospitals, that hospitals have med schools?

 

[Isomerase]

Will Kaiser be public or private?

 

[gyngyn]

Will Kaiser be public or private?

Private.

 

[SDMEDED]

The development of this model of medical education will be fascinating to follow. Will we see a trend develop where instead of med schools having hospitals, that hospitals have med schools?

Interesting thought. My take is unlikely to see hospitals having medical schools. However, more likely to see "large integrated healthcare systems with a tremendous network of hospitals and physicians tied together by a common mission and vision with a commitment to the health of their members and communities they serve and a long commitment to medical education" having medical schools

 

[Med Ed]

Interesting thought. My take is unlikely to see hospitals having medical schools. However, more likely to see "large integrated healthcare systems with a tremendous network of hospitals and physicians tied together by a common mission and vision with a commitment to the health of their members and communities they serve and a long commitment to medical education" having medical schools

Sure, but that's like sawing an arm off for shock value. You can only do it twice.

 

[thesnarkiest]

Interesting thought. My take is unlikely to see hospitals having medical schools. However, more likely to see "large integrated healthcare systems with a tremendous network of hospitals and physicians tied together by a common mission and vision with a commitment to the health of their members and communities they serve and a long commitment to medical education" having medical schools

Will the school offer additional courses on navigating health insurance policies that are particularly convoluted, asinine, and unnecessarily restrictive, as it's parent organization has some experience in this matter?

Asking for a friend.

 

[SDMEDED]

Will the school offer additional courses on navigating health insurance policies that are particularly convoluted, asinine, and unnecessarily restrictive, as it's parent organization has some experience in this matter?

Asking for a friend.

Hi the snarkiest,
Myself or some of my Permanente faculty colleagues are happy to connect with you about how our physician-led health system collaborates/integrates with a health plan to achieve the outcomes that we do.

 

[IgEdoc]

Two points to mention are 1) that the medical school will be private, but the organization behind it is non-profit, 2) medical care under KP is unhindered by bureaucracy; decisions are made by physicians that are "owners" in the organization

 

[hugh2012]

How competitive do you think this school will be during its first year? Presumably, won't the top students still choose UCSF, UCLA, HMS, etc. over Kaiser?

 

[OchemOficionado]

How competitive do you think this school will be during its first year? Presumably, won't the top students still choose UCSF, UCLA, HMS, etc. over Kaiser?

Very competitive. It’s. In. California. It’s Kaiser.

 

[Goro]

How competitive do you think this school will be during its first year? Presumably, won't the top students still choose UCSF, UCLA, HMS, etc. over Kaiser?

Do not underestimate the desire of California students to stay in California.

 

[hugh2012]

So is it going to basically become another UCSF , Harvard , penn caliber?

 

[efle]

So is it going to basically become another UCSF , Harvard , penn caliber?

No, a brand new school isn't going to be UCSF/Harvard/Penn caliber

 

[Goro]

So is it going to basically become another UCSF , Harvard , penn caliber?

The crystal ball is murky, but I predict UCI/UCD class first. Then UCSD/Keck class? Ask me in three years.

 

[IgEdoc]

If interested, keeping up on the progress of the new school...visually

https://app.oxblue.com/open/kaiser/schoolofmedicine

 

[wcrungrl]

Does anyone have any information on how to apply for the inaugural 2019 class? I don't see them as a school option on AMCAS. Thanks!

 

[Med Ed]

Does anyone have any information on how to apply for the inaugural 2019 class? I don't see them as a school option on AMCAS. Thanks!

The school has not received preliminary accreditation, so it is not yet possible to apply.

 

[FutureSurgical]

Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

I’m an Emergency Physician with Kaiser Permanente, the Program Director for our Emergency Medicine Residency and one of several passionate faculty working on the curriculum for the KP SOM... a bit more about me and my involvement in the school here: bit.ly/2hFYDZO (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year. The School of Medicine will expand on KP’s long commitment to medical education which dates back >60 years and is home to over 600 residents/year in every major specialty. We currently play host to 1000’s of medical students and residents from other institutions and are excited to deepen our commitment to med ed with a school of our own.

We’re breaking from the long tradition of basic sciences in the first two years followed by clinical sciences in the second two years. Our students will have clinical experiences from day one and learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of the patient. They’re will be a strong focus on health systems, health equity, technology and team-based care. While there certainly will be deep exposure to primary care, students will be exposed to all of our medical and surgical specialties, women’s health and emergency medicine.

A particular strength of the school will be our tightly knit, integrated network of physicians, medical and ancillary staff, hospitals and medical buildings. Students will learn in traditional settings, but will also be able to leverage our comprehensive health records system, and learn from innovative approaches to care such as telemedicine and community and home-based care... all within the same healthcare system and all delivered by our more than 20,000 Permanente physicians and countless other team members.

To stay connected and learn more, you can check out our website or follow us on Twitter...

• Web: k-p.li/2yhlzWq (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)
• Twitter: @KPMedSchool

To follow me/our residency program:

• Twitter: @MattSilverMD
• Twitter: @SDMEDED

What made KP to finally break ground for a medical school; to go through the thousands of hoops that LCME puts in place to establish an MD school? Also, will this have a big impact on other CA schools having rotations with KP institutions? Forgive me if these are dumb questions. I haven't been to CA in a very long time so I'm interested in the development.

 

[SDMEDED]

@FutureSurgical, not dumb questions at all. Education has been part of KP's mission for >50 yrs. In SCAL alone, we have over 300 residents/fellows per year in >30 specialties. The medical school is an extension of that desire to train the next generation of physicians/physician leaders. More info can be found on our SOM website (top google hit when you search for "Kaiser Permanente School of Medicine"- still new to SDN- not allowed to post web links yet ) or by following us on Twitter @kpmedschool. As for other med schools, we do serve as affiliates for many across California, and in some cases across the country... like the affiliation between Boston U SOM and KP Santa Clara. Given our commitment to education, the large # of communities we serve, the vast network of facilities and the large number of physicians and inter-professional team members within our organization, there is no need to sever our current relationships to make room for our own students. We get to have our cake and eat it to

 

[hugh2012]

Is Kaiser likely to accept a 2019 class or likely 2020 and later for the inaugural class?

 

[Goro]

What made KP to finally break ground for a medical school; to go through the thousands of hoops that LCME puts in place to establish an MD school? Also, will this have a big impact on other CA schools having rotations with KP institutions? Forgive me if these are dumb questions. I haven't been to CA in a very long time so I'm interested in the development.

To follow up the above post from SDMEDED, it seems there HAS been a trend recently for hospitals to open medical schools (rather than the other way around). Think Hofstra, Geisinger, CalU Med, Seton Hall and of course, the much older Cleveland Clinic and Mayo.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Is Kaiser likely to accept a 2019 class or likely 2020 and later for the inaugural class?

I’m wondering the same. The norm is to wait and have a full application cycle after prelim accreditation, but after Cal Northstate rushed their app cycle and Cal Uni did the same for the 2018 entering class, who knows?

 

[Med Ed]

I’m wondering the same. The norm is to wait and have a full application cycle after prelim accreditation, but after Cal Northstate rushed their app cycle and Cal Uni did the same for the 2018 entering class, who knows?

Those were both financial decisions. Kaiser is sitting on stacks.

 

[efle]

Those were both financial decisions. Kaiser is sitting on stacks.

But what's the impetus to wait? It's not going to be hard to fill a California med school with qualified bodies. Hell Northstate hit a 34 median MCAT with a mid-cycle start, while being for-profit.

 

[Med Ed]

But what's the impetus to wait? It's not going to be hard to fill a California med school with qualified bodies. Hell Northstate hit a 34 median MCAT with a mid-cycle start, while being for-profit.

You typically wait for two reasons: (1) it gives your faculty and support staff a few more months to cross the t's and dot the i's, and (2) it gives a nascent admissions committee time to pick through the pool and figure out with confidence who they really want.

It does not take talent to fill a new private medical school with high stat people. You just have to be willing to take, in part, what others have passed over.

 

[frog301]

Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

I’m an Emergency Physician with Kaiser Permanente, the Program Director for our Emergency Medicine Residency and one of several passionate faculty working on the curriculum for the KP SOM... a bit more about me and my involvement in the school here: bit.ly/2hFYDZO (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year. The School of Medicine will expand on KP’s long commitment to medical education which dates back >60 years and is home to over 600 residents/year in every major specialty. We currently play host to 1000’s of medical students and residents from other institutions and are excited to deepen our commitment to med ed with a school of our own.

We’re breaking from the long tradition of basic sciences in the first two years followed by clinical sciences in the second two years. Our students will have clinical experiences from day one and learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of the patient. They’re will be a strong focus on health systems, health equity, technology and team-based care. While there certainly will be deep exposure to primary care, students will be exposed to all of our medical and surgical specialties, women’s health and emergency medicine.

A particular strength of the school will be our tightly knit, integrated network of physicians, medical and ancillary staff, hospitals and medical buildings. Students will learn in traditional settings, but will also be able to leverage our comprehensive health records system, and learn from innovative approaches to care such as telemedicine and community and home-based care... all within the same healthcare system and all delivered by our more than 20,000 Permanente physicians and countless other team members.

To stay connected and learn more, you can check out our website or follow us on Twitter...

• Web: k-p.li/2yhlzWq (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)
• Twitter: @KPMedSchool

To follow me/our residency program:

• Twitter: @MattSilverMD
• Twitter: @SDMEDED

Will Kaiser be favoring California residents or be accepting both IS and OOS?

 

[Unlimited Apps]

Will Kaiser be favoring California residents or be accepting both IS and OOS?

Well it would be a private school so they would accept both IS and OOS. But I probably wouldn't be surprised if they prefer California residents but don't explicitly mention it (regional bias type of thing like Wake Forest and some other schools). The school will probably get a TON of high stat California residents so wouldn't be surprised if their IS > OOS in terms of stats (similar to some other Cali schools).

 

[hugh2012]

Any idea when they will admit their first class?

 

[Med Ed]

Any idea when they will admit their first class?

Why don't you hail @SDMEDED ?

 

[buckoh24]

Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year.

When you say opening your doors for 2019, are you saying that the first class will matriculate in 2019 or applicants will first be able to submit their applications in 2019 and matriculate in 2020? Thanks!

 

[SDMEDED]

Thrilled to see so much interest and soooo many insightful questions and comments!! The timeline has little to do with finances and staffing and much to do with the LCME accreditation cycle. We will know more regarding when we will open by the first quarter of next year (2019) after our accreditation site visit towards the end of this year. Time is on our side... there’s no reason to shoot for a mid-cycle start when that makes the recruitment and selection process rushed. More time allows us to spend more time reviewing each application, more time to engage with a greater number of applicants and more 1:1 time with each individual applicant allowing for a more holistic review process. While MCAT’s are one measure of a ‘qualified applicant’, a very narrow view of what it takes to be a successful student and competent physician and a tiny sliver of what we will look at in reviewing and selecting our prospective students. When we started the first ever Kaiser Permanente Emergency Medicine Residency Program in 2014 we also strategically waited so as not to rush the selection process. Holding off paid dividends in our first class and has set the stage for an incredibly bright and diverse group of residents ever since. We plan to do the same with the KPSOM.

Time also allows us to further explore the wide range of innovative educational technologies that will be used to prepare our students to learn and practice medicine. Yes, the KPSOM will be amongst the most tech enabled schools in the country! If you’re interested in learning a bit more about KPSOM’s tech, a gratuitous shout out to read my post here: bit.do/epsBM (copy and paste link into your browser)

Keep the questions and comments coming!

-Matt

 

[SDMEDED]

And, as for IS vs OOS, we will not give preference to either or... As noted, we will select students through a holistic process, considering them as individuals, as students and as members of their communities. We will de-emphasize standardized exams like the MCATs, where high scores do little to predict success in medical school or competence as a doctor. The same goes for IS vs OOS... I've met plenty of great students and doctors from outside of CA

 

[hugh2012]

Thrilled to see so much interest and soooo many insightful questions and comments!! The timeline has little to do with finances and staffing and much to do with the LCME accreditation cycle. We will know more regarding when we will open by the first quarter of next year (2019) after our accreditation site visit towards the end of this year. Time is on our side... there’s no reason to shoot for a mid-cycle start when that makes the recruitment and selection process rushed. More time allows us to spend more time reviewing each application, more time to engage with a greater number of applicants and more 1:1 time with each individual applicant allowing for a more holistic review process. While MCAT’s are one measure of a ‘qualified applicant’, a very narrow view of what it takes to be a successful student and competent physician and a tiny sliver of what we will look at in reviewing and selecting our prospective students. When we started the first ever Kaiser Permanente Emergency Medicine Residency Program in 2014 we also strategically waited so as not to rush the selection process. Holding off paid dividends in our first class and has set the stage for an incredibly bright and diverse group of residents ever since. We plan to do the same with the KPSOM.

Time also allows us to further explore the wide range of innovative educational technologies that will be used to prepare our students to learn and practice medicine. Yes, the KPSOM will be amongst the most tech enabled schools in the country! If you’re interested in learning a bit more about KPSOM’s tech, a gratuitous shout out to read my post here: bit.do/epsBM (copy and paste link into your browser)

Keep the questions and comments coming!

-Matt

So are you guys most likely not enrolling for a class fall of 2019 since you guys don't want to rush?That would be nice to know.

 

[Med Ed]

So are you guys most likely not enrolling for a class fall of 2019 since you guys don't want to rush?That would be nice to know.

If the site visit is this later year then the LCME vote would happen at either the February or June meeting of next year. A full admissions cycle would matriculate the first class in 2020.

 

[907906]

@SDMEDED
Hello Matt!
Thank you for giving us information on your new school!

You mentioned that your school will de-emphasize MCAT. Does that mean you will have emphasis on something else like primary care, research etc? I read your mission statement but it didn't say anything special about the aforementioned topics. Also, what would you predict your first year acceptance pool stats to be like? Closer to UCI level or USC?

Any tips on making us next year's applicants look desirable in your adcom's eyes?
Thank you!

 

[Blanky]

So he stated NOT this cycle correct?

 

[907906]

So he stated NOT this cycle correct?

Yeah. First app cycle is 2019-2020 for incoming class of 2020

 

[westsidestoryz]

Yeah. First app cycle is 2019-2020 for incoming class of 2020

Noooooo was looking forward to applying this cycle...

 

[OneDayiA]

Oh nooo! I had my eye on this school for the longest time and was planning on applying for this cycle Is it confirmed that the inaugural class will be 2020, or is there a possibility for 2019? The website says yet to be determined which makes me think there might be a possibility for 2019. That said, last year Nova and UIllinois received preliminary accreditation in Nov/Dec so I was really hoping that would be the case with KP.

 

[Med Ed]

Oh nooo! I had my eye on this school for the longest time and was planning on applying for this cycle Is it confirmed that the inaugural class will be 2020, or is there a possibility for 2019? The website says yet to be determined which makes me think there might be a possibility for 2019. That said, last year Nova and UIllinois received preliminary accreditation in Nov/Dec so I was really hoping that would be the case with KP.

Based on what @SDMEDED has shared, 2019 is not happening. Repeat, it is not happening. Not. Happening. Odds of a 2019 opening are zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

LCME visit later this year means accreditation vote comes in either February or June of 2019. Either way the cycle will be almost over, and KP is not going to pull a Northstate and seat a class in three months via PayPal.

So, one more time, Kaiser Permanente School of Medicine will not be opening in 2019. Don't bother looking for it in AMCAS because it is not there.