Chromium Surfer

2+ Year Member
May 24, 2015
1,212
835
Status
Pre-Medical
What is the general consensus about this school? How will it be viewed, is it safe to apply here, what should applicants be aware of?
 
About the Ads

aaronrodgers

Quarterback, Super Bowl MVP, Future Hall of Famer
2+ Year Member
Mar 19, 2017
598
1,131
36
Green Bay, Wisconsin
www.nfl.com
lots of clinical sites probably in all specialties, they have a plethoras of MDs and PhDs, being in SoCal will probably get loads of applications, I think they might look a lot like Mayo at a superficial level
 
  • Like
Reactions: nimbus

gonnif

Only 342 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,812
32,243
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
Every new school has the same issue for its first students: no residency program director has much of an idea of what their grads are going to be like.
 

gyngyn

Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Lifetime Donor
7+ Year Member
Nov 4, 2011
24,269
40,654
Status
Attending Physician
Every new school has the same issue for its first students: no residency program director has much of an idea of what their grads are going to be like.
Luckily, Kaiser also has a boatload of residencies.
 
OP
Chromium Surfer

Chromium Surfer

2+ Year Member
May 24, 2015
1,212
835
Status
Pre-Medical
Every new school has the same issue for its first students: no residency program director has much of an idea of what their grads are going to be like.
Luckily, Kaiser also has a boatload of residencies.
Gonnif that's what I was thinking but I was wondering if Kaiser would be treated differently since they have a lot of residencies, and have been a training site for Med students and residents in the past. That's partially why I asked this question.

Gyngyn, how do you think the other Cali schools will view Kaiser?
 

gyngyn

Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Lifetime Donor
7+ Year Member
Nov 4, 2011
24,269
40,654
Status
Attending Physician
Gonnif that's what I was thinking but I was wondering if Kaiser would be treated differently since they have a lot of residencies, and have been a training site for Med students and residents in the past. That's partially why I asked this question.

Gyngyn, how do you think the other Cali schools will view Kaiser?
They have considered a medical school for decades and have done all the necessary groundwork to make it a success.
They have ample resources and commitment so it should be fine.
The only question is how they are going to incentivize primary care specialties since this is their goal (I'm told).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Thoroughbred_Med

5+ Year Member
Jan 1, 2014
856
635
Status
Pre-Medical
I hear they will be accepting applications starting next cycle? Is this true? Should we expect to apply through AMCAS or Paypal like CNU?
 
Sep 28, 2017
6
38
Status
Attending Physician
Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

I’m an Emergency Physician with Kaiser Permanente, the Program Director for our Emergency Medicine Residency and one of several passionate faculty working on the curriculum for the KP SOM... a bit more about me and my involvement in the school here: bit.ly/2hFYDZO (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year. The School of Medicine will expand on KP’s long commitment to medical education which dates back >60 years and is home to over 600 residents/year in every major specialty. We currently play host to 1000’s of medical students and residents from other institutions and are excited to deepen our commitment to med ed with a school of our own.

We’re breaking from the long tradition of basic sciences in the first two years followed by clinical sciences in the second two years. Our students will have clinical experiences from day one and learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of the patient. They’re will be a strong focus on health systems, health equity, technology and team-based care. While there certainly will be deep exposure to primary care, students will be exposed to all of our medical and surgical specialties, women’s health and emergency medicine.

A particular strength of the school will be our tightly knit, integrated network of physicians, medical and ancillary staff, hospitals and medical buildings. Students will learn in traditional settings, but will also be able to leverage our comprehensive health records system, and learn from innovative approaches to care such as telemedicine and community and home-based care... all within the same healthcare system and all delivered by our more than 20,000 Permanente physicians and countless other team members.

To stay connected and learn more, you can check out our website or follow us on Twitter...
  • Web: k-p.li/2yhlzWq (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)
  • Twitter: @KPMedSchool
To follow me/our residency program:
  • Twitter: @MattSilverMD
  • Twitter: @SDMEDED
 

Goro

Gold Donor
7+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
54,460
80,861
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
The development of this model of medical education will be fascinating to follow. Will we see a trend develop where instead of med schools having hospitals, that hospitals have med schools?
 
About the Ads
Sep 28, 2017
6
38
Status
Attending Physician
The development of this model of medical education will be fascinating to follow. Will we see a trend develop where instead of med schools having hospitals, that hospitals have med schools?
Interesting thought. My take is unlikely to see hospitals having medical schools. However, more likely to see "large integrated healthcare systems with a tremendous network of hospitals and physicians tied together by a common mission and vision with a commitment to the health of their members and communities they serve and a long commitment to medical education" having medical schools :)
 

Med Ed

2+ Year Member
Sep 13, 2015
2,868
9,647
Status
Attending Physician
Interesting thought. My take is unlikely to see hospitals having medical schools. However, more likely to see "large integrated healthcare systems with a tremendous network of hospitals and physicians tied together by a common mission and vision with a commitment to the health of their members and communities they serve and a long commitment to medical education" having medical schools :)
Sure, but that's like sawing an arm off for shock value. You can only do it twice.
 
Oct 4, 2017
1
3
Interesting thought. My take is unlikely to see hospitals having medical schools. However, more likely to see "large integrated healthcare systems with a tremendous network of hospitals and physicians tied together by a common mission and vision with a commitment to the health of their members and communities they serve and a long commitment to medical education" having medical schools :)
Will the school offer additional courses on navigating health insurance policies that are particularly convoluted, asinine, and unnecessarily restrictive, as it's parent organization has some experience in this matter?

Asking for a friend.
 
Sep 28, 2017
6
38
Status
Attending Physician
Will the school offer additional courses on navigating health insurance policies that are particularly convoluted, asinine, and unnecessarily restrictive, as it's parent organization has some experience in this matter?

Asking for a friend.
Hi the snarkiest,
Myself or some of my Permanente faculty colleagues are happy to connect with you about how our physician-led health system collaborates/integrates with a health plan to achieve the outcomes that we do.
 

hugh2012

2+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2015
235
63
Status
Pre-Medical
How competitive do you think this school will be during its first year? Presumably, won't the top students still choose UCSF, UCLA, HMS, etc. over Kaiser?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio

OchemOficionado

Moderator
2+ Year Member
Apr 25, 2016
1,623
2,244
Status
Medical Student
How competitive do you think this school will be during its first year? Presumably, won't the top students still choose UCSF, UCLA, HMS, etc. over Kaiser?
Very competitive. It’s. In. California. It’s Kaiser.
 

Goro

Gold Donor
7+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
54,460
80,861
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
How competitive do you think this school will be during its first year? Presumably, won't the top students still choose UCSF, UCLA, HMS, etc. over Kaiser?
Do not underestimate the desire of California students to stay in California.
 

hugh2012

2+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2015
235
63
Status
Pre-Medical
So is it going to basically become another UCSF , Harvard , penn caliber?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio
About the Ads

Goro

Gold Donor
7+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
54,460
80,861
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
So is it going to basically become another UCSF , Harvard , penn caliber?
The crystal ball is murky, but I predict UCI/UCD class first. Then UCSD/Keck class? Ask me in three years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio
May 5, 2018
2
1
Does anyone have any information on how to apply for the inaugural 2019 class? I don't see them as a school option on AMCAS. Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: avargas4

FutureSurgical

5+ Year Member
Jul 2, 2014
428
382
Status
Pre-Medical
Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

I’m an Emergency Physician with Kaiser Permanente, the Program Director for our Emergency Medicine Residency and one of several passionate faculty working on the curriculum for the KP SOM... a bit more about me and my involvement in the school here: bit.ly/2hFYDZO (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year. The School of Medicine will expand on KP’s long commitment to medical education which dates back >60 years and is home to over 600 residents/year in every major specialty. We currently play host to 1000’s of medical students and residents from other institutions and are excited to deepen our commitment to med ed with a school of our own.

We’re breaking from the long tradition of basic sciences in the first two years followed by clinical sciences in the second two years. Our students will have clinical experiences from day one and learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of the patient. They’re will be a strong focus on health systems, health equity, technology and team-based care. While there certainly will be deep exposure to primary care, students will be exposed to all of our medical and surgical specialties, women’s health and emergency medicine.

A particular strength of the school will be our tightly knit, integrated network of physicians, medical and ancillary staff, hospitals and medical buildings. Students will learn in traditional settings, but will also be able to leverage our comprehensive health records system, and learn from innovative approaches to care such as telemedicine and community and home-based care... all within the same healthcare system and all delivered by our more than 20,000 Permanente physicians and countless other team members.

To stay connected and learn more, you can check out our website or follow us on Twitter...
  • Web: k-p.li/2yhlzWq (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)
  • Twitter: @KPMedSchool
To follow me/our residency program:
  • Twitter: @MattSilverMD
  • Twitter: @SDMEDED
What made KP to finally break ground for a medical school; to go through the thousands of hoops that LCME puts in place to establish an MD school? Also, will this have a big impact on other CA schools having rotations with KP institutions? Forgive me if these are dumb questions. I haven't been to CA in a very long time so I'm interested in the development.
 
Sep 28, 2017
6
38
Status
Attending Physician
@FutureSurgical, not dumb questions at all. Education has been part of KP's mission for >50 yrs. In SCAL alone, we have over 300 residents/fellows per year in >30 specialties. The medical school is an extension of that desire to train the next generation of physicians/physician leaders. More info can be found on our SOM website (top google hit when you search for "Kaiser Permanente School of Medicine"- still new to SDN- not allowed to post web links yet :)) or by following us on Twitter @kpmedschool. As for other med schools, we do serve as affiliates for many across California, and in some cases across the country... like the affiliation between Boston U SOM and KP Santa Clara. Given our commitment to education, the large # of communities we serve, the vast network of facilities and the large number of physicians and inter-professional team members within our organization, there is no need to sever our current relationships to make room for our own students. We get to have our cake and eat it to :)
 

hugh2012

2+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2015
235
63
Status
Pre-Medical
Is Kaiser likely to accept a 2019 class or likely 2020 and later for the inaugural class?
 

Goro

Gold Donor
7+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
54,460
80,861
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
What made KP to finally break ground for a medical school; to go through the thousands of hoops that LCME puts in place to establish an MD school? Also, will this have a big impact on other CA schools having rotations with KP institutions? Forgive me if these are dumb questions. I haven't been to CA in a very long time so I'm interested in the development.
To follow up the above post from SDMEDED, it seems there HAS been a trend recently for hospitals to open medical schools (rather than the other way around). Think Hofstra, Geisinger, CalU Med, Seton Hall and of course, the much older Cleveland Clinic and Mayo.
 

OchemOficionado

Moderator
2+ Year Member
Apr 25, 2016
1,623
2,244
Status
Medical Student
Is Kaiser likely to accept a 2019 class or likely 2020 and later for the inaugural class?
I’m wondering the same. The norm is to wait and have a full application cycle after prelim accreditation, but after Cal Northstate rushed their app cycle and Cal Uni did the same for the 2018 entering class, who knows?
 
About the Ads

efle

not an elf
5+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2014
11,714
15,589
Status
Medical Student
Those were both financial decisions. Kaiser is sitting on stacks.
But what's the impetus to wait? It's not going to be hard to fill a California med school with qualified bodies. Hell Northstate hit a 34 median MCAT with a mid-cycle start, while being for-profit.
 

Med Ed

2+ Year Member
Sep 13, 2015
2,868
9,647
Status
Attending Physician
But what's the impetus to wait? It's not going to be hard to fill a California med school with qualified bodies. Hell Northstate hit a 34 median MCAT with a mid-cycle start, while being for-profit.
You typically wait for two reasons: (1) it gives your faculty and support staff a few more months to cross the t's and dot the i's, and (2) it gives a nascent admissions committee time to pick through the pool and figure out with confidence who they really want.

It does not take talent to fill a new private medical school with high stat people. You just have to be willing to take, in part, what others have passed over.
 
May 25, 2018
120
133
Status
Medical Student
Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

I’m an Emergency Physician with Kaiser Permanente, the Program Director for our Emergency Medicine Residency and one of several passionate faculty working on the curriculum for the KP SOM... a bit more about me and my involvement in the school here: bit.ly/2hFYDZO (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year. The School of Medicine will expand on KP’s long commitment to medical education which dates back >60 years and is home to over 600 residents/year in every major specialty. We currently play host to 1000’s of medical students and residents from other institutions and are excited to deepen our commitment to med ed with a school of our own.

We’re breaking from the long tradition of basic sciences in the first two years followed by clinical sciences in the second two years. Our students will have clinical experiences from day one and learn the basic and clinical sciences in the context of the patient. They’re will be a strong focus on health systems, health equity, technology and team-based care. While there certainly will be deep exposure to primary care, students will be exposed to all of our medical and surgical specialties, women’s health and emergency medicine.

A particular strength of the school will be our tightly knit, integrated network of physicians, medical and ancillary staff, hospitals and medical buildings. Students will learn in traditional settings, but will also be able to leverage our comprehensive health records system, and learn from innovative approaches to care such as telemedicine and community and home-based care... all within the same healthcare system and all delivered by our more than 20,000 Permanente physicians and countless other team members.

To stay connected and learn more, you can check out our website or follow us on Twitter...
  • Web: k-p.li/2yhlzWq (copy and paste bitly link into your browser)
  • Twitter: @KPMedSchool
To follow me/our residency program:
  • Twitter: @MattSilverMD
  • Twitter: @SDMEDED
Will Kaiser be favoring California residents or be accepting both IS and OOS?
 
  • Like
Reactions: M&L

Unlimited Apps

King of Appetizers
Jun 8, 2018
497
476
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
Will Kaiser be favoring California residents or be accepting both IS and OOS?
Well it would be a private school so they would accept both IS and OOS. But I probably wouldn't be surprised if they prefer California residents but don't explicitly mention it (regional bias type of thing like Wake Forest and some other schools). The school will probably get a TON of high stat California residents so wouldn't be surprised if their IS > OOS in terms of stats (similar to some other Cali schools).
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio

hugh2012

2+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2015
235
63
Status
Pre-Medical
Any idea when they will admit their first class?
 
Aug 30, 2017
948
821
Status
Pre-Medical
Hey SDN... Long time listener, first time poster. Great questions/comments. I can give a little insight and answer some of what’s mentioned in the posts above.

A little about the school... it will be based in Pasadena, opening its doors in 2019, and welcoming 48 students per year.
When you say opening your doors for 2019, are you saying that the first class will matriculate in 2019 or applicants will first be able to submit their applications in 2019 and matriculate in 2020? Thanks!
 
Sep 28, 2017
6
38
Status
Attending Physician
Thrilled to see so much interest and soooo many insightful questions and comments!! The timeline has little to do with finances and staffing and much to do with the LCME accreditation cycle. We will know more regarding when we will open by the first quarter of next year (2019) after our accreditation site visit towards the end of this year. Time is on our side... there’s no reason to shoot for a mid-cycle start when that makes the recruitment and selection process rushed. More time allows us to spend more time reviewing each application, more time to engage with a greater number of applicants and more 1:1 time with each individual applicant allowing for a more holistic review process. While MCAT’s are one measure of a ‘qualified applicant’, a very narrow view of what it takes to be a successful student and competent physician and a tiny sliver of what we will look at in reviewing and selecting our prospective students. When we started the first ever Kaiser Permanente Emergency Medicine Residency Program in 2014 we also strategically waited so as not to rush the selection process. Holding off paid dividends in our first class and has set the stage for an incredibly bright and diverse group of residents ever since. We plan to do the same with the KPSOM.

Time also allows us to further explore the wide range of innovative educational technologies that will be used to prepare our students to learn and practice medicine. Yes, the KPSOM will be amongst the most tech enabled schools in the country! If you’re interested in learning a bit more about KPSOM’s tech, a gratuitous shout out to read my post here: bit.do/epsBM (copy and paste link into your browser)

Keep the questions and comments coming!

-Matt
 
Sep 28, 2017
6
38
Status
Attending Physician
And, as for IS vs OOS, we will not give preference to either or... As noted, we will select students through a holistic process, considering them as individuals, as students and as members of their communities. We will de-emphasize standardized exams like the MCATs, where high scores do little to predict success in medical school or competence as a doctor. The same goes for IS vs OOS... I've met plenty of great students and doctors from outside of CA :)
 

hugh2012

2+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2015
235
63
Status
Pre-Medical
Thrilled to see so much interest and soooo many insightful questions and comments!! The timeline has little to do with finances and staffing and much to do with the LCME accreditation cycle. We will know more regarding when we will open by the first quarter of next year (2019) after our accreditation site visit towards the end of this year. Time is on our side... there’s no reason to shoot for a mid-cycle start when that makes the recruitment and selection process rushed. More time allows us to spend more time reviewing each application, more time to engage with a greater number of applicants and more 1:1 time with each individual applicant allowing for a more holistic review process. While MCAT’s are one measure of a ‘qualified applicant’, a very narrow view of what it takes to be a successful student and competent physician and a tiny sliver of what we will look at in reviewing and selecting our prospective students. When we started the first ever Kaiser Permanente Emergency Medicine Residency Program in 2014 we also strategically waited so as not to rush the selection process. Holding off paid dividends in our first class and has set the stage for an incredibly bright and diverse group of residents ever since. We plan to do the same with the KPSOM.

Time also allows us to further explore the wide range of innovative educational technologies that will be used to prepare our students to learn and practice medicine. Yes, the KPSOM will be amongst the most tech enabled schools in the country! If you’re interested in learning a bit more about KPSOM’s tech, a gratuitous shout out to read my post here: bit.do/epsBM (copy and paste link into your browser)

Keep the questions and comments coming!

-Matt
So are you guys most likely not enrolling for a class fall of 2019 since you guys don't want to rush?That would be nice to know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio

Med Ed

2+ Year Member
Sep 13, 2015
2,868
9,647
Status
Attending Physician
So are you guys most likely not enrolling for a class fall of 2019 since you guys don't want to rush?That would be nice to know.
If the site visit is this later year then the LCME vote would happen at either the February or June meeting of next year. A full admissions cycle would matriculate the first class in 2020.
 
9

907906

@SDMEDED
Hello Matt!
Thank you for giving us information on your new school!

You mentioned that your school will de-emphasize MCAT. Does that mean you will have emphasis on something else like primary care, research etc? I read your mission statement but it didn't say anything special about the aforementioned topics. Also, what would you predict your first year acceptance pool stats to be like? Closer to UCI level or USC?

Any tips on making us next year's applicants look desirable in your adcom's eyes? :)
Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio

OneDayiA

2+ Year Member
Jul 21, 2016
42
10
Status
Pre-Medical
Oh nooo! I had my eye on this school for the longest time and was planning on applying for this cycle :( Is it confirmed that the inaugural class will be 2020, or is there a possibility for 2019? The website says yet to be determined which makes me think there might be a possibility for 2019. That said, last year Nova and UIllinois received preliminary accreditation in Nov/Dec so I was really hoping that would be the case with KP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LlamaIsCoolio
About the Ads