Kaiser Permanente Medical School

[RogueUnicorn]

so what you're saying is there's a chance

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[Med Ed]

so what you're saying is there's a chance

 

[700458]

Thrilled to see so much interest and soooo many insightful questions and comments!! The timeline has little to do with finances and staffing and much to do with the LCME accreditation cycle. We will know more regarding when we will open by the first quarter of next year (2019) after our accreditation site visit towards the end of this year. Time is on our side... there’s no reason to shoot for a mid-cycle start when that makes the recruitment and selection process rushed. More time allows us to spend more time reviewing each application, more time to engage with a greater number of applicants and more 1:1 time with each individual applicant allowing for a more holistic review process. While MCAT’s are one measure of a ‘qualified applicant’, a very narrow view of what it takes to be a successful student and competent physician and a tiny sliver of what we will look at in reviewing and selecting our prospective students. When we started the first ever Kaiser Permanente Emergency Medicine Residency Program in 2014 we also strategically waited so as not to rush the selection process. Holding off paid dividends in our first class and has set the stage for an incredibly bright and diverse group of residents ever since. We plan to do the same with the KPSOM.

Time also allows us to further explore the wide range of innovative educational technologies that will be used to prepare our students to learn and practice medicine. Yes, the KPSOM will be amongst the most tech enabled schools in the country! If you’re interested in learning a bit more about KPSOM’s tech, a gratuitous shout out to read my post here: bit.do/epsBM (copy and paste link into your browser)

Keep the questions and comments coming!

-Matt

oof, and with that... my heart is broken

This makes me admire KPSOM so much more in terms of what they value in their future students, and it further demonstrates their commitment to the best version of medical education possible- but DAMN I really wanted the chance to go here...

 

[DameJulie]

Really that KPSOM opens for application this cycle...

 

[OneDayiA]

oof, and with that... my heart is broken

This makes me admire KPSOM so much more in terms of what they value in their future students, and it further demonstrates their commitment to the best version of medical education possible- but DAMN I really wanted the chance to go here...

Ditto

 

[Med Ed]

Does anyone think Kaiser's inaugural class will get free tuition?

They'll need it to attract any students to that dump!

 

[700458]

They'll need it to attract any students to that dump!

It's a brand new building in Pasadena, what do you mean?

 

[OchemOficionado]

So is that a yes? lol

I think they’re joking. I could be interpreting it wrong. Kaiser will have no problem filling their class though. It’s already in demand and isn’t built.

 

[PeleHonuaMea]

Does anyone think Kaiser's inaugural class will get free tuition?

A friend of mine is a physician @ KPAnaheim, said he heard that rumor a few weeks ago "first 2 classes free", not sure if it's true though. I most definitely hope so! Lol.
But whatever the cost, I'm sure it'll be a great program .

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

As of yesterday, KPSOM is now accredited by the LCME: http://lcme.org/directory/accredited-u-s-programs/

 

[lakers4sho]

Kaiser Permanente’s New Medical School Will Waive Tuition for Its First 5 Classes

Starting Fall 2020

 

[OwurayawMD]

i found myself here after reading the news of its first 5 classes been free and i must say it is an interesting tread

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

"By eliminating the financial burden of a medical education, the school hopes that more students will choose family medicine and other vital but lower-paid specialties."

What happens after the first five years?

 

[IgEdoc]

"what happens after the first five years?

They commented that while it was not planning to cover tuition beyond the first five classes, it would provide “very generous financial aid” based on need after that.
It is, after all, a multi-billion, non-profit organization

 

[Goro]

Kaiser Permanente’s New Medical School Will Waive Tuition for Its First 5 Classes

Starting Fall 2020

Can you imagine what their first year's class's stats will be????? Eat that, NYU.

 

[Gastrapathy]

First 5 classes free and right in Pasadena...hope they created a big admissions committee.

 

[Med Ed]

What happens after the first five years?

Five years of double tuition.

 

[Goro]

Five years of double tuition.

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

100 students/class * 4 years/MD * 5 MD classes * $50,000/student*year = $100,000,000

Insane.

 

[LAIsTheBestPlaceEver]

100 students/class * 4 years/MD * 5 MD classes * $50,000/student*year = $100,000,000

Insane.

 

[Med Ed]

100 students/class * 4 years/MD * 5 MD classes * $50,000/student*year = $100,000,000

Insane.

The classes are 48 students and tuition about $55,000. So 48 x 4 x 5 x 55,000 = $52.8 million spread over 8 years.

One of the many benefits of having $73 billion in operating revenue.

 

[Med Ed]

Can you imagine what their first year's class's stats will be?????

If they're gunning for graduates to go into lower paying fields then the stats may be modest, at least by California standards. It will be interesting to watch this unfold.

 

[Goro]

If they're gunning for graduates to go into lower paying fields then the stats may be modest, at least by California standards. It will be interesting to watch this unfold.

This is CA we're talking about, AND a free medical education. So I predict a high stats first year class. Even CNU managed to snag a median 514ish for it's pioneer class.

 

[Med Ed]

This is CA we're talking about, AND a free medical education. So I predict a high stats first year class. Even CNU managed to snag a median 514ish for it's pioneer class.

The difference maybe that Kaiser is looking for fit more than stats. There are 4.0/520’s with a burning desire to practice in lower paying fields, but they are few and far between.

If you’re CNU you have more incentive to prioritize metrics.

That said, I have no doubt that Kaiser’s inaugural class will be academically well qualified.

 

[efle]

Would we really expect stats that high? Wasn't UCLA's Drew always more like 3.6-3.7 GPA and high 20s-low 30s MCAT?

 

[OchemOficionado]

Would we really expect stats that high? Wasn't UCLA's Drew always more like 3.6-3.7 GPA and high 20s-low 30s MCAT?

Drew is also a Historically Black College/University which is one reason for those stats.

 

[IgEdoc]

The free education is an "encouragement" not a blood contract that primary care is to be the one only choice for residency. The incentive behind the KP medical school is to train future doctors in the KP philosophy of medical care and KP does have and need ALL specialties, both medical and surgical.

 

[puahate]

Should OOSers apply to kaiser?

 

[OchemOficionado]

Should OOSers apply to kaiser?

It's private so why not try.

 

[PeleHonuaMea]

Should OOSers apply to kaiser?

Yes. It's not a school exclusively for California residents. Kaiser has hospitals, clinics and members in Washington, Oregon, Colorado, California, Hawaii etc.

 

[Goro]

Should OOSers apply to kaiser?

Based upon the IS/OOS numbers at CalU Med (which is a very similar school in scope and mission), I can't recommend it. CA is just too filled with competitive pre-meds.

Now throw in the fact that Kaiser is giving a free ride, and that will be a magnet for even more talented Golden Staters!

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Though the new Kaiser medical school can certainly fill their class with talented IS people with high stats, especially with their free tuition, I think they will need to recruit some high stat OOS matriculants as well in order to establish themselves as a private institution that wants to have a national presence. If they take too many CA residents initially, they will forever hurt themselves in attracting top OOS applicants. And though there are always lots of top applicants from CA, it certainly will be better if they attract a nationwide audience of the best and brightest, especially if they are not going to be able to offer the free tuition after the first few years. Of course, if their goal is to attract students who will stay in CA for residency and beyond, they will be necessarily be preferential towards IS applicants, but I still think they need to recruit a fair number of OOS.

The same thing happens with small residencies. If a small Neurosurgery program ends up matching 2/2 internal applicants three out of five years, subsequently, there is a always marked decrease in interest from top applicants from other schools.

 

[Goro]

That's an interesti

Though the new Kaiser medical school can certainly fill their class with talented IS people with high stats, especially with their free tuition, I think they will need to recruit some high stat OOS matriculants as well in order to establish themselves as a private institution that wants to have a national presence. If they take too many CA residents initially, they will forever hurt themselves in attracting top OOS applicants. And though there are always lots of top applicants from CA, it certainly will be better if they attract a nationwide audience of the best and brightest, especially if they are not going to be able to offer the free tuition after the first few years. Of course, if their goal is to attract students who will stay in CA for residency and beyond, they will be necessarily be preferential towards IS applicants, but I still think they need to recruit a fair number of OOS.

The same thing happens with small residencies. If a small Neurosurgery program ends up matching 2/2 internal applicants three out of five years, subsequently, there is a always marked decrease in interest from top applicants from other schools.

That's an interesting thesis, good colleague. Time will tell!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Kaiser spends certain percentage of their revenue on community outreach and they are using those funds for the medical school tuition is what I heard.

 

[Wannabemdee]

I met with my preprofessional health advisor. My advisor told me the Kaiser Dean of admissions recently met with him and his team of advisors at our state university since the Dean is traveling throughout the country meeting with preprofessional health advisors educating them about Kaiser. The Kaiser Dean is making yet another visit to my university in the next 6 months to meet with university preprofessional health advisors again (presumably another Kaiser promotional / marketing tour) to interview applicants that the advisors select. I was told by my advisor that he wants me to meet with the Kaiser dean.

The news from my advisor bewildered me since CA is thousands of miles away from us. I am married, URM, older, non-trad, 20+ yrs OR Tech, have family on this side of the country, and CA is a whole different culture on many levels. I was planning on staying on this side of the Mississippi. However my advisor told me I am the type of applicant Kaiser is targeting. Plus, my advisor reasoned, with a name like Kaiser, impressive clinical sites, terrific financial standing which translates into terrific resources and bright future, this is a one of a kind thing.

Free tuition is nice but I have concerns handling the shock of moving thousands of miles away and the goals Kaiser has. IDK.

Is Kaiser opening their school because of altruistic reasons, fill a need in medical education, be leaders in med ed, all plausible but naive, or are they looking for cheap labor for their hospitals in California once students train there? If they expect applicants like me to stay in CA, I don't see that happening. I have my own goals at my age on what I want to do in medicine, namely take care of "my people" where I live.

What do @gyngyn @gonnif and other adcoms think, who have yet to comment on Kaiser?

Yes. That is the Kaiser model.

 

[nimbus]

I met with my preprofessional health advisor. My advisor told me the Kaiser Dean of admissions recently met with him and his team of advisors at our state university since the Dean is traveling throughout the country meeting with preprofessional health advisors educating them about Kaiser. The Kaiser Dean is making yet another visit to my university in the next 6 months to meet with university preprofessional health advisors again (presumably another Kaiser promotional / marketing tour) to interview applicants that the advisors select. I was told by my advisor that he wants me to meet with the Kaiser dean.

The news from my advisor bewildered me since CA is thousands of miles away from us. I am married, URM, older, non-trad, 20+ yrs OR Tech, have family on this side of the country, and CA is a whole different culture on many levels. I was planning on staying on this side of the Mississippi. However my advisor told me I am the type of applicant Kaiser is targeting. Plus, my advisor reasoned, with a name like Kaiser, impressive clinical sites, terrific financial standing which translates into terrific resources and bright future, this is a one of a kind thing.

Free tuition is nice but I have concerns handling the shock of moving thousands of miles away and the goals Kaiser has. IDK.

Is Kaiser opening their school because of altruistic reasons, fill a need in medical education, be leaders in med ed, all plausible but naive, or are they looking for cheap labor for their hospitals in California once students train there? If they expect applicants like me to stay in CA, I don't see that happening. I have my own goals at my age on what I want to do in medicine, namely take care of "my people" where I live.

What do @gyngyn @gonnif and other adcoms think, who have yet to comment on Kaiser?

Kaiser is a powerhouse in Southern California. They enroll a large proportion of the working middle class and continues to grow. Unlike other healthcare systems, very few if any of their patients are indigent/homeless. Financially they are rolling in cash and always striving to increase capacity to meet the needs of their enrolled patients.

The pay is competitive considering the workload and lifestyle. They are considered a desirable gig.

On top of all that, free medical school is free medical school. You’d be CRAZY not to follow up. You can always move back home.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Kaiser does serve those with medical (CA medicaid) .

 

[IgEdoc]

Not sure what URM group you are @IL1B but in certain regions where Kaiser is established, there are strong Spanish speaking communities, many are Kaiser members. I see many of these patients and being an URM Latino physician, knowing the culture and being a native speaker is a plus that Kaiser is looking when training or hiring doctors

 

[Dream of the Endless]

Wouldn't it be nice if medical schools used metrics like emotional intelligence, social interaction skills, grit and maturity to demonstrate excellent skills as future medical doctors as opposed to a 520 MCAT and 3.9 Science GPA

Is not possible for someone to have those characteristics and have those statistics? Those numbers, which are arguably unreasonable, is to sift through applicants. There's not enough time or resources to sift through all X,000 of applicants while trying to objectively evaluate for those conditions. A 3.9 or a 3.5 will likely complete their medical education. However, a 520 MCAT is more likely to score high on USMLE 1 than a low MCAT which leads to better matches which boost schools prestige/worth. I'm not arguing for those ridiculous statistics, they are just a means to an end. Even if they are not the "best" way to do so. Frankly, I wish they had something better.

This is directly from the AAMC website - https://www.aamc.org/download/493340/data/lsl2018validity.pdf

 

[Neuro244]

What MCAT score do you guys think a person would need to have in order to be considered for an interview/matriculation?

 

[deleted962973]

Is not possible for someone to have those characteristics and have those statistics? Those numbers, which are arguably unreasonable, is to sift through applicants. There's not enough time or resources to sift through all X,000 of applicants while trying to objectively evaluate for those conditions. A 3.9 or a 3.5 will likely complete their medical education. However, a 520 MCAT is more likely to score high on USMLE 1 than a low MCAT which leads to better matches which boost schools prestige/worth. I'm not arguing for those ridiculous statistics, they are just a means to an end. Even if they are not the "best" way to do so. Frankly, I wish they had something better.

View attachment 264041

This is directly from the AAMC website - https://www.aamc.org/download/493340/data/lsl2018validity.pdf

This is interesting... the average score for someone who gets a 522+ on the MCAT is a 250+ on STEP? I was under the impression that these exams tested very different things (one is more conceptual, one is more memorization), and that there wasn’t a significant correlation.

 

[deleted972488]

these exams tested very different things

Yes, but good test takers are good test takers, so there is a correlation. It obviously doesn't work out that way for everyone but when dealing with averages and a large enough sample size...

 

[deleted962973]

Yes, but good test takers are good test takers, so there is a correlation. It obviously doesn't work out that way for everyone but when dealing with averages and a large enough sample size...

MSAR 2019 is out

MCAT 25%: 514 (accepted), 513 (matriculated) 75%: 520, 519 Median: 517, 516 GPA (total) 25%: 3.68 (accepted), 3.66 (matriculated) 75%: 3.92, 3.90 Median: 3.81, 3.80

forums.studentdoctor.net

See here, the same chart but with percentiles. It looks like there’s a great deal of overlap in scores past 518, though with a modest upward trend. Anyway, I might be derailing the point of this thread but I just wanted to say that there’s certainly some correlation but it appears to not be so robust.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Curious if anyone is applying to Kaiser for this cycle.

While volunteering last week at a local free clinic I was shocked but happy to have an undegrad premed student, also a volunteer at the clinic, tell me she is applying to Kaiser. We live >2000 miles away from Pasadena. When I asked why she was applying given she is from the NE USA, she said “Everyone is applying. Its free!”

Who is applying other than me?

Medical School Requirements for Admissions | KPSOM

Learn about the Kaiser Permanente Bernard J. Tyson School of Medicine medical school requirements like prerequisites, tests, and more before applying.

medschool.kp.org

Admission Requirements webpage:
However, know that your test scores and coursework will be reviewed in the context of your experiences, milestones, and personal attributes. We believe this holistic review process will not only help us form a multidimensional portrait of each applicant, but also recruit and admit a diverse, inclusive, and highly qualified class.

Meeeee! LOL, there is not a chance this school will happen for me, but the secondary was cheap so I thought I'd give it a shot.

 

[deleted972488]

Curious if anyone is applying to Kaiser for this cycle.

While volunteering last week at a local free clinic I was shocked but happy to have an undegrad premed student, also a volunteer at the clinic, tell me she is applying to Kaiser. We live >2000 miles away from Pasadena. When I asked why she was applying given she is from the NE USA, she said “Everyone is applying. Its free!”

Who is applying other than me?

Medical School Requirements for Admissions | KPSOM

Learn about the Kaiser Permanente Bernard J. Tyson School of Medicine medical school requirements like prerequisites, tests, and more before applying.

medschool.kp.org

Admission Requirements webpage:
However, know that your test scores and coursework will be reviewed in the context of your experiences, milestones, and personal attributes. We believe this holistic review process will not only help us form a multidimensional portrait of each applicant, but also recruit and admit a diverse, inclusive, and highly qualified class.

Applying!

 

[Neuro244]

Applying!

I'm planning on applying but won't be retaking the MCAT until August so I'm worried about that! What MCAT score do you guys think they'll have for their 10th, 25th, and 50th %'s?

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

Applying!!
Website says CASPer required!!