KCU vs DMU

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chemistryiscool

chemistryiscool

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I know, I know. This thread has been made multiple times. I just really want some new input because I'm still struggling to decide after reading every recent post made about DMU and KCU rotations, etc.

KCU was my #1 choice at the beginning of the cycle due to residency match placements and board scores. Everything I've seen on SDN hints towards KCU preparing their students for boards better than DMU.
(for what it's worth, I was accepted to the KC campus)

DMU was my #1 choice after interviewing there. They have some practices that I really like, but these are very specific and I'm not sure how much they will come up. Additionally, there are PBL-based electives, such as PBL biochemistry, anatomy, etc. and I am very interested in this. Another leg up on KCU is the surgical suite, and right now I am interested in a surgical sub-specialty and would like to give myself the best resources possible. I am also interested in doing a dual MHA, which is not offered at KCU. That said, my only real qualm with DMU is rotations, which is a huge deal. Even at my interview one of the students said that he felt like he was really on his own scheduling rotations and the DMU faculty were not helpful in finding rotations. Additionally, I have read that KCU has more ward-based rotations.

Location isn't really a factor as I have opportunity and family related things drawing me both ways. Additionally, I am more than happy to rotate in rural areas.


Can anyone give me some more information about if there are any options for PBL at KCU and if you felt you had a good opportunity to rotate in the areas you wanted to at either school? Which would you pick? Which is the better school for a non DO-friendly, competitive residency? Additionally, I'd love information as to how students from these schools are doing on the USMLE.

Also, realistically, how useful will a MHA be as a physician?


Thanks in advance.
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Following this as I am also in similar predicament.
DMU's research and global health program seemed a little stronger than KCU which is why I'm getting pulled to DMU more..but I wanna know more about rotations for DMU.
 
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I've been getting some good replies about rotations on the DMU specific thread.
I had decided on DMU last night after having found average USMLE scores from both schools, (I haven't even been accepted lol) but then today was told that rotations at DMU are 85-90% preceptor based and KCU 70% preceptor based. I'm not sure yet if that's enough to change my mind about DMU, probably not
 
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chemistryiscool said:
I've been getting some good replies about rotations on the DMU specific thread.
I had decided on DMU last night after having found average USMLE scores from both schools, (I haven't even been accepted lol) but then today was told that rotations at DMU are 85-90% preceptor based and KCU 70% preceptor based. I'm not sure yet if that's enough to change my mind about DMU, probably not
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What were the usmle averages?


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chemistryiscool said:
Another leg up on KCU is the surgical suite, and right now I am interested in a surgical sub-specialty and would like to give myself the best resources possible
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This is a bells and whistles thing. It will have 0 effect on your ability for surgery or any actual medical training honestly. It’s just a fancy toy to show and wow interviewees.

chemistryiscool said:
Additionally, I have read that KCU has more ward-based rotations.
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I’m not 100% sure how true this is.

Either way my opinion would be to go to DMU and here is why. Both are great schools, however my observation has been that my friends at KCU are much more stressed out than my friends at DMU due to the intensity of the curriculum. Yes it prepares you well for boards, but honestly good board prep is largely on you to simply put in the work. The reason the curriculum works is it essentially forces you to put in the work instead of you doing it on your own. My friends at KCU say they have a high rate of mental health issues. It also gives you less summer break time after first year to either de-stress or to find quality research.

Don’t get me wrong, medical school anywhere is difficult and challenging. If you are ok with the curriculum then KCU is great and will take you wherever you want to go. However if it were me choosing I would lean towards DMU simply from my observations of students at both programs.
 
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Thanks so much for this response! I definitely want to go to DMU but I haven't gotten my admissions decision yet!!
AnatomyGrey12 said:
This is a bells and whistles thing. It will have 0 effect on your ability for surgery or any actual medical training honestly. It’s just a fancy toy to show and wow interviewees.



I’m not 100% sure how true this is.

Either way my opinion would be to go to DMU and here is why. Both are great schools, however my observation has been that my friends at KCU are much more stressed out than my friends at DMU due to the intensity of the curriculum. Yes it prepares you well for boards, but honestly good board prep is largely on you to simply put in the work. The reason the curriculum works is it essentially forces you to put in the work instead of you doing it on your own. My friends at KCU say they have a high rate of mental health issues. It also gives you less summer break time after first year to either de-stress or to find quality research.

Don’t get me wrong, medical school anywhere is difficult and challenging. If you are ok with the curriculum then KCU is great and will take you wherever you want to go. However if it were me choosing I would lean towards DMU simply from my observations of students at both programs.
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I am in a similar situation. I received an acceptance to both DMU and KCUMB (Kansas campus) and honestly have no idea how to choose between the two so the SDN will be highly influential in my decision. I'm from the Midwest and wish to stay in a Midwest city (IA, MN, ND, SD, MO, MI, NE). I have an interest in general surgery at this time and have a vested interest in good scores, retention rate of material and well rotation sites. I have a knee jerk reaction to dislike the OMT mindset, especially the neck rotations even though physical therapy is very important for pain manag. and rehabilitation.

The noticeable differences I found were:

KCUMB student ambassadors seemed friendlier and more enthusiastic compared to DMU's counterparts.
KCUMB's location had a larger city vibe and was in a sketchy part of town compared to DMU's small town feel.
KCUMB had a larger student body and probably a lower cadaver to student ratio compared to DMU.
KCUMB has track programs for world health and ethics.
KCUMB has a big push to get you to study well for the boards instead of independent studying compared at DMU. (My gist)
DMU has a vested interest in training students for general surgery of which this amounts too, I have no idea. KCUMB has a surgical suite, I think somewhere
DMU has a larger gym and recreational facility.
DMU has a seminar on multiculturism in medicine which I think is key.

other than that:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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chemistryiscool said:
I've been getting some good replies about rotations on the DMU specific thread.
I had decided on DMU last night after having found average USMLE scores from both schools, (I haven't even been accepted lol) but then today was told that rotations at DMU are 85-90% preceptor based and KCU 70% preceptor based. I'm not sure yet if that's enough to change my mind about DMU, probably not
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Why would a difference in preceptor based rotations be so significant? I'm pretty new to this myself.
 
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YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
Why would a difference in preceptor based rotations be so significant? I'm pretty new to this myself.
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Preceptor based rotations are referred to as "glorified shadowing" by fellow SDN-ers, and from what I understand as a student in a ward based rotations you have more of an opportunity to act like an intern and check on patients, do PEs, etc
 
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chemistryiscool said:
Preceptor based rotations are referred to as "glorified shadowing" by fellow SDN-ers, and from what I understand as a student in a ward based rotations you have more of an opportunity to act like an intern and check on patients, do PEs, etc
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I looked into it briefly and it appears that between the two, there is no competition. Ward is superior by far in actually training you to become a physician because you are actually in their shoes. This thread and the mimelin quote were quite telling for me (How do residencies look at preceptor vs ward-based rotations?)
 
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chemistryiscool said:
Preceptor based rotations are referred to as "glorified shadowing" by fellow SDN-ers, and from what I understand as a student in a ward based rotations you have more of an opportunity to act like an intern and check on patients, do PEs, etc
Click to expand...

That’s actually not very accurate. Wards based rotations teach you how to act like an intern and part of a resident team, but it’s not uncommon that you get to do less. On preceptor rotations you generally actually get to do a lot more. There are benefits to both types and the best learning probably comes from a mix of both.

Very few prceptorships are glorified shadowing, even though it can happen. That’s one of the cons of preceptorships, it can be variable with how good the rotation is.

For residency ward based is the best prep, particularly in fields like IM and surgery.
 
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chemistryiscool said:
So are you leaning towards KCU?
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Yes... But I need more information before I make a dedicated decision on residency and rotation placements. DMU seemed to stress family medicine and I don't think thats for me. I like that KCUMB has you study everything twice to help with retention and forcing you to prep for the boards. I self-studied for the MCAT but I think I got lucky and lightning doesn't hit the same place twice (or so they say)

In terms of general surgery, DMU appears to have the upperhand because the past dean REALLY emphasized surgery and implementing a full surgery suite and not some surgical SIMULATION suite that KCUMB has. DMU at their interview told me that they trained many Marines on site before deployment. Those are hard to argue against if you are interested in surgery.
 
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YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
In terms of general surgery, DMU appears to have the upperhand because the past dean REALLY emphasized surgery and implementing a full surgery suite and not some surgical SIMULATION suite that KCUMB has. DMU at their interview told me that they trained many Marines on site before deployment. Those are hard to argue against if you are interested in surgery.
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This stuff is completely bells and whistles that will have no bearing on your ability to match surgery.
 
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YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
Yes... But I need more information before I make a dedicated decision on residency and rotation placements. DMU seemed to stress family medicine and I don't think thats for me. I like that KCUMB has you study everything twice to help with retention and forcing you to prep for the boards. I self-studied for the MCAT but I think I got lucky and lightning doesn't hit the same place twice (or so they say)

In terms of general surgery, DMU appears to have the upperhand because the past dean REALLY emphasized surgery and implementing a full surgery suite and not some surgical SIMULATION suite that KCUMB has. DMU at their interview told me that they trained many Marines on site before deployment. Those are hard to argue against if you are interested in surgery.
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Both schools post their residency match lists, maybe you've already done this but you could compare the # of student matching to general surgery the past few years
 
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chemistryiscool said:
Both schools post their residency match lists, maybe you've already done this but you could compare the # of student matching to general surgery the past few years
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ehhh you shouldnt put too much stock into the match lists. Its definitely good to see some students matching into competitive fields, but you shouldnt really make a decision based off that, theres too many outside variables.
 
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YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
Lets see... Nova>DMU>LECOM>Touro-CA>KYCOM>ACOM>BCOM. (With time, I'd probably move up ACOM above KYCOM but too early for that now).





@chemistryiscool, this may help you decide even though the whole debate feels kinda arbitrary.
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Thanks! Yeah, I'd like to know what this is based on. But, as I got wait listed at DMU and accepted to KCU, I'm actively trying to find reasons KCU is better so that I don't end up forfeiting my deposit
 
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YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
Lets see... Nova>DMU>LECOM>Touro-CA>KYCOM>ACOM>BCOM. (With time, I'd probably move up ACOM above KYCOM but too early for that now).





@chemistryiscool, this may help you decide even though the whole debate feels kinda arbitrary.
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the only reason Id put DMU above NOVA is because of cost. Cant go wrong with either school (especially the Florida beach), but I dont think its worth $15k a year
 
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Does anyone have a sample curriculum schedule for year 1 and 2 at KCU? I can't find anything on their website in this regard. I wish to get a sense for pace and courses covered in the 1st two years of the program. Like are electives a thing there? All it says is this on the website is this:

Curriculum

"We incorporate active learning in the classroom to enhance critical thinking skills to prepare you for continued learning throughout your career. We have early clinical exposure in the curriculum through participation in Score 1 for Health (KCU-Kansas City), standardized patient encounters and human patient simulation."

Paging @AlteredScale if you can or know someone who can shed some light on this. The website is in the dark 🙁
 
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YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
Does anyone have a sample curriculum schedule for year 1 and 2 at KCU? I can't find anything on their website in this regard. I wish to get a sense for pace and courses covered in the 1st two years of the program. Like are electives a thing there? All it says is this on the website is this:

Curriculum

"We incorporate active learning in the classroom to enhance critical thinking skills to prepare you for continued learning throughout your career. We have early clinical exposure in the curriculum through participation in Score 1 for Health (KCU-Kansas City), standardized patient encounters and human patient simulation."

Paging @AlteredScale if you can or know someone who can shed some light on this. The website is in the dark 🙁
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I'm not technically a student at KCU as I was just accepted a month ago, but KCU differs from most in that there are two passes through systems. Normal 1st year then abrnormal 2nd years. I'm guessing this means shorter blocks and more frequent exams.
 
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Coltuna said:
I'm not technically a student at KCU as I was just accepted a month ago, but KCU differs from most in that there are two passes through systems. Normal 1st year then abrnormal 2nd years. I'm guessing this means shorter blocks and more frequent exams.
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I'm familiar with the two pass system but I have no idea what classes are covered and what one's schedule would look like to compare it to another school. I will probably have to end up emailing them.
 
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chemistryiscool said:
I've been getting some good replies about rotations on the DMU specific thread.
I had decided on DMU last night after having found average USMLE scores from both schools, (I haven't even been accepted lol) but then today was told that rotations at DMU are 85-90% preceptor based and KCU 70% preceptor based. I'm not sure yet if that's enough to change my mind about DMU, probably not
Click to expand...

What’s DMUs average USMLE score if you do not mind I couldn’t find this info
 
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