I have been invited for an interview here next week and am debating whether or not I should go as I have already been accepted to MSUCOM. I am OOS for KCUCOM and MSUCOM. I was wondering what peoples opinions are on this school, and if I would be missing out by not attending the interview.
KCUCOM
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Out of state tuition for msu is 82k and kcumb is 44k. You could go to msu once or kcumb twice and pay almost the same amount!
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$82k?!?!?!?!?!?
In that case the KCU interview will be the cheapest $800 (or whatever) that you'll ever spend 😉
Really impressed by this school from interview day. You probably won't regret checking it out
In that case the KCU interview will be the cheapest $800 (or whatever) that you'll ever spend 😉
Really impressed by this school from interview day. You probably won't regret checking it out
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If you can afford it, go to MSUCOM. You pay more but your opportunities there are limitless. At KCU you will be under much more pressure to compete for residencies across the U.S. At MSU you basically have some cushion room.
Also, MSUCOM is the #1 DO school in America, and is the only one that is ranked along MD schools and outperforms many of them. Tuition sucks but you are getting more than what you would at KCU.
Also, MSUCOM is the #1 DO school in America, and is the only one that is ranked along MD schools and outperforms many of them. Tuition sucks but you are getting more than what you would at KCU.
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For sure just in Michigan. But have you seen HOW MANY residencies Michigan has, in every specialty of medicine?!! I'd say at least 1/3 of DO specialties (just an approx.) (specialties, meaning non-primary care) are from Michigan. It's the one school that's allowed many DO's from different states to not be relegated to primary care. And I know for fact that they do favor their residents b/c it's been mentioned on SDN.
Their board scores aren't the highest, but every student at MSU feels confident in wanting to pursue any specialty they can. And guess where the KCU students end up applying for residency? A Bunch in Michigan, especially for the specialties.
And when people say that KCU students match into Michigan, they do. But guess what, you as an MSU student have preference over them and only the cream of the crop of out of staters get the remaining seats. It's a more uphill battle from KCU. But this isn't to say at MSU you can barely pass boards and get into ortho surg, but if you do your part right you will have almost no problem getting a residency in the specialty you want.
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Some people may call such an opportunity "priceless" and others say it doesn't matter if you can't afford the tuition anyways. So yea, if you can afford it I'd go to MSU.
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On the contrary, if you want to pursue family medicine or general IM, then I would not waste my money going to MSU. It all depends on specialty.
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No, this is not true. Sorry I wouldn't normally be this blunt but OP is seemingly on the brink of giving up on kcumb, and he would be spending well over 200k (after interest) for something that isn't there if he's expecting limitless opportunities at msu. MSUCOM will not provide any cushioning beyond what KCUMB can do and the USNEWS ranking is meaningless garbage. If OP wants to spend that much money to live near family or something, that's fine, but MSU does not offer more.
http://com.msu.edu/Students/Career_Guidance/specialty_prog_match_2016.pdf
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachments/kcu-class-of-2016-matches-pdf.201466/
I admit to not having a very strong grasp on the relative program strengths in most of the specialties, but kcumb's match list really looks better to me.
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DEFINITELY attend your KCU interview.. you never know what school you will love until you visit!
MSU and KCU are both killer schools, and you can't go wrong with either of them, OP.
I received my MSU interview invite about a week after I was accepted to KCU. After researching the schools as best as I could for a few weeks, I decided to cancel my MSU interview. This is not because I thought KCU was superior to MSU, but because it was a secondary goal of mine to leave MI when I applied to medical schools, and I thought the schools were academically at similar levels. I'll say this:
MSU will make research easier to acquire (affiliation with a large research institution) and will make IN STATE residencies easier to acquire (as will any school and their respective location...) If you are very interested in research, or you want to end up practicing in MI one day, MSU may be the school you want to go with (assuming you get acceptances from KCU and MSU.) Also, MSU is rated top 20 in the country (MD & DO) for Primary Care... so if you might be interested in primary care, definitely a good choice.
At KCU, you will have too work a little harder to get clinical research, but the opportunity is there for you. With regards to residency, there is obviously preference shown in KC to KCU students in the area (just like there is preference shown to MSU grads in MI.) One thing I loved about the KCU curriculum was that they place a strong emphasis on board-prep and this shows in their board scores (they kill it.) Obviously your performance on the boards will be determined by how much preparation you put into it, but there is something to be said for KCU's curriculum and reputation for crushing the boards (both COMLEX and USMLE.)
ALSO: (IMO) Kansas City > East Lansing. KC has much more to do than East Lansing. Don't get me wrong, EL is fun (I've spent quite a bit of time there in undergrad!), but KC is a big city with all sorts of diverse things to do that you won't be able to do in EL. So if you are looking for more of a city feel, maybe you'd like KCU? If you like the college town feel, EL is definitely for you.
TL;DR: They are both killer schools... Attend the KCU interview (because, why not?) and if you're accepted to both, go where you think you will flourish most as a student (academically & otherwise), because that is what is most important!
MSU and KCU are both killer schools, and you can't go wrong with either of them, OP.
I received my MSU interview invite about a week after I was accepted to KCU. After researching the schools as best as I could for a few weeks, I decided to cancel my MSU interview. This is not because I thought KCU was superior to MSU, but because it was a secondary goal of mine to leave MI when I applied to medical schools, and I thought the schools were academically at similar levels. I'll say this:
MSU will make research easier to acquire (affiliation with a large research institution) and will make IN STATE residencies easier to acquire (as will any school and their respective location...) If you are very interested in research, or you want to end up practicing in MI one day, MSU may be the school you want to go with (assuming you get acceptances from KCU and MSU.) Also, MSU is rated top 20 in the country (MD & DO) for Primary Care... so if you might be interested in primary care, definitely a good choice.
At KCU, you will have too work a little harder to get clinical research, but the opportunity is there for you. With regards to residency, there is obviously preference shown in KC to KCU students in the area (just like there is preference shown to MSU grads in MI.) One thing I loved about the KCU curriculum was that they place a strong emphasis on board-prep and this shows in their board scores (they kill it.) Obviously your performance on the boards will be determined by how much preparation you put into it, but there is something to be said for KCU's curriculum and reputation for crushing the boards (both COMLEX and USMLE.)
ALSO: (IMO) Kansas City > East Lansing. KC has much more to do than East Lansing. Don't get me wrong, EL is fun (I've spent quite a bit of time there in undergrad!), but KC is a big city with all sorts of diverse things to do that you won't be able to do in EL. So if you are looking for more of a city feel, maybe you'd like KCU? If you like the college town feel, EL is definitely for you.
TL;DR: They are both killer schools... Attend the KCU interview (because, why not?) and if you're accepted to both, go where you think you will flourish most as a student (academically & otherwise), because that is what is most important!
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100%%% agree
Location is definitely a factor here. If you cant see yourself wanting to do both school and residency(because MI will be where MSU gives you an advantage for residency) in michigan, then save yourself the money. Because its a lot of money. However if youre just itching for a specialty and youre specialty or bust, and dont care where you end up/like Michigan then id suggest spending the extra cash. Youre gonna have to work your butt off no matter where you go though.
There's a ton of perks to going MSU and if you need help deciding later down the road id be happy to share what ive read/heard you can PM me. But for now, id suggest to at least attending the KCU interview and considering what youd do with an extra 200k as an attending while you explore KC
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I'm not sure how legitimate these rankings are considered to be, but MSUCOM has consistently placed top 20 in this list for "Best Primary Care Schools" in the United States (MD & DO); I think they were even top 10 last year: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/primary-care-rankings
I would argue that if OP was interested in primary care, MSU would definitely be the way to go if we're talking quality of education.
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So biased, but go to that interview! MSU is a great program but that 80k tuition is why I didn't apply there
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Don't just go to kcu over msu, go anywhere over msu (except the Carib). Every DO school in the country is overpriced but oos tuition at msu is the worst! Unless you're doing hpsp, you're insane for paying 80k+ to go there.
It's def the best DO school, but money is a real thing that exists and you'll one day have to deal with.
It's def the best DO school, but money is a real thing that exists and you'll one day have to deal with.
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Something else to consider, that you may have already. Is that not only is the tuition 30k greater a year, but that 80k a year grows a lot quicker than 40-50k a year. Not to mention stafford loans (your lowest interest loans) only cover 40k a year and grad plus for the rest. Grad plus has a higher interest rate and withdrawal fee (or whatever its called), so thats something to keep in mind.
However on the plus side MSUCOM has a plethora of scholarships you can apply for, check it out! http://com.msu.edu/Students/Financial_Aid/Scholarships.htm
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However on the plus side MSUCOM has a plethora of scholarships you can apply for, check it out! http://com.msu.edu/Students/Financial_Aid/Scholarships.htm
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AnatomyGrey12
I would at least go to the KCU interview because you never know what will feel more like home. And the money is a consideration, but I don't think it is as black and white as people here are making it seem.
I actually think the MSU one is more impressive. Remember that they have so many AOA specialty matches not because they aren't competitive for ACGME but because they have an absolutely massive number of AOA residencies in every specialty. If OP has any feelings at all that he might end up liking surgery of any kind then MSU would give him a marked advantage. If he decides he wants to do surgery then he is most likely to match in Michigan anyway because there are so many surgery residencies up there.
Another consideration is the KCU curriculum, its brutal. It prepares you well for your dedicated study period but it literally beats the crap out of you for 2 years. I know multiple students who have said they wish it wasn't quite so intense because there is never any time for a breather. Burnout is real. OP has to decide if that is something he can put up with and an environment he can excel in.
Like I said I would still go to the KCU interview because you never know if you will like it more. The money is a real issue but I hear MSU is fairly generous with scholarships for OOS to knock the tuition down a bit. I wouldn't say KCU over MSU every time without looking at it from every angle.
I actually think the MSU one is more impressive. Remember that they have so many AOA specialty matches not because they aren't competitive for ACGME but because they have an absolutely massive number of AOA residencies in every specialty. If OP has any feelings at all that he might end up liking surgery of any kind then MSU would give him a marked advantage. If he decides he wants to do surgery then he is most likely to match in Michigan anyway because there are so many surgery residencies up there.
Another consideration is the KCU curriculum, its brutal. It prepares you well for your dedicated study period but it literally beats the crap out of you for 2 years. I know multiple students who have said they wish it wasn't quite so intense because there is never any time for a breather. Burnout is real. OP has to decide if that is something he can put up with and an environment he can excel in.
Like I said I would still go to the KCU interview because you never know if you will like it more. The money is a real issue but I hear MSU is fairly generous with scholarships for OOS to knock the tuition down a bit. I wouldn't say KCU over MSU every time without looking at it from every angle.
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I agree that there are some angles that would make MSU the better choice for OP (and I do think that MSU is an impressive school! just very expensive) but I don't agree that MSU will necessarily lead to better chances for surgery, especially when considering that he will enter the match in a world where every program is ACGME. I could see the multiple surgery programs having a light regional preference for MSU grads but I do not believe it is worth the extreme cost of MSU. If OP can do HPSP or something then the cost would be a moot point, of course.
The curriculum is indeed tough, I went through it. But I dunno, I think avoiding a school because you think it's curriculum will be too hard is getting started on the wrong foot. Besides, if KCUMB pushes him to learn better and get a higher board score that will be worth way more than regional familiarity of msu in terms of matching.
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Definitely hit up the KCU interview and then decide once you hear back from KCU.
If KCU doesn't accept you, then off to MSU you go... If KCU does accept you, then you'll have to really weigh the pros/cons and go with your heart.
If KCU doesn't accept you, then off to MSU you go... If KCU does accept you, then you'll have to really weigh the pros/cons and go with your heart.
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AnatomyGrey12
Just to clarify, they actually pretty heavily favor MSU grads because a number of them are literally MSUCOM programs. I know people from other schools that have done auditions at some of these programs and told me that a number of these places have in house students from MSU they usually save spots for every year. They know some of who they will match often before auditions even occur because those students have rotated with them and around them for 2 years.
Other than that I agree with everything you said! I guess with the curriculum thing I am more of the party that getting a killer board score is more on the student and you can rock boards anywhere, the intense curriculum definitely gives you a good base of understanding though to springboard from.
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I feel you. I cancelled 8 residency interviews because they were too redundant to places I already interviewed at and I ran out of energy
But won't the merger mean more specialties are opening everywhere? Since all doors are now open for everyone?
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The real difference is that MD's can apply for DO residencies. This merger is actually causing less residencies because the DO ones who can't meet ACGME standards (maybe for good reason).
But aside from the merger, residencies have been opening up every year but mostly in primary care. Couple that with more medical students graduating med school every year and you will see how much tougher it's getting for everyone to apply for specialty residencies.
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AnatomyGrey12
No, and not all doors are open for everyone. The ACGME programs that used to not consider DOs before the merger won't all of a sudden start looking at DOs. Combine that with the fact that there are more graduates entering the match every year, DO programs are shutting down, and now MDs will be added to the applicant pool to these competitive specialty programs and what you get is increased competitiveness across the board. If you want a specialty then you will definitely have to earn it.
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Thankfully at least no one needs to worry about getting a residency period. If there weren't a surplus of FM and IM spots that's when a REAL panic would happen.
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Kind of depends on if she's footing the bill or not. If she is you're gonna need to be persuasive and talk about how the tuition difference alone is about 35K per year so 140k by the time med school is over. If she isn't paying the bill then probs mention what I just said but you don't need to sell it as much. It's your future and that's got to be something you address with your mom!
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Tell her you love KC barbecue too much to turn it down. This is the right time to pull the goro argument.
