"Keep Asheville Weird".

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One of the cardiologists from my residency hospital was up in Asheville with his family a number of years ago. They were standing at an intersection waiting for the crosswalk light to turn.

His wife looks over and sees this guy kinda dancing across the street. She says "That man is about to take his pants off". Sure enough, 30 seconds later he strips down and dances naked in the street. None of the locals batted an eye.

That's Asheville in a nutshell to me.


Also, find out what BBQ place that was. I found one that I thought looked good for our trip next month and I want to make sure its not the same one.
 
Asheville was an hour from my medical school.
Had Thanksgiving at the Biltmore once. In the stables or something. An ice storm came in and I got to enjoy random people ****ing up other random people's cars in the parking lot. Breakfast at Waffle House was better.

Chilis is terrible for tacos. Their beer is domestic and cold. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
Asheville was an hour from my medical school.
Had Thanksgiving at the Biltmore once. In the stables or something. An ice storm came in and I got to enjoy random people ****ing up other random people's cars in the parking lot. Breakfast at Waffle House was better.

Chilis is terrible for tacos. Their beer is domestic and cold. Nothing wrong with that.
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Yeah they only do the stable cafe dinner during the Christmas lights. The food is underwhelming especially for the price.
 
I really like Tupelo Honey for food, but my favorite place is a bit out of town - Harvest Records. Great selection, friendly staff - definitely worth the trip for any records junkies like myself.

That said, I wouldn't want to live in Asheville these days. I think it peaked about 5-10 years ago.
 
WilcoWorld said:
I really like Tupelo Honey for food, but my favorite place is a bit out of town - Harvest Records. Great selection, friendly staff - definitely worth the trip for any records junkies like myself.

That said, I wouldn't want to live in Asheville these days. I think it peaked about 5-10 years ago.
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I'd still rather live in Asheville than Boone though.
 
Carolina barbecue is usually good.
 
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I ate at a run of the mill place in Durham, and the BBQ was excellent. Vinegar based sauce is the best.
 
@RustedFox - I think you hit the nail on the head with the homeless adjacent activity. I felt like there were a lot of people living in rich mommy and daddy’s basement at night while trying to look homeless during the day. It didn’t feel like a weird city as much as it felt like a city that wanted so, so badly to be weird. Like, we’re weird....I mean...can’t you tell....please like me!????

If you want a little different type of experience than a cabin, try to Grand Bohemian hotel across from the Biltmore. One of the nicest hotels and guest experiences I’ve had. It was like 5 years ago and could have changed, but it was amazing. Greeted by name when I walked in. They knew it was our anneversary and upgraded our room to the room right across the hall since they knew we had a coupes massage scheduled so we wouldn’t have to change back to real clothes. Truly a great experience. Plus, they had a moonshine oldfashioned.
 
I always thought Cherokee was an interesting place. Next to the National Park too.
 
RustedFox said:
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Headed back to Asheville tomorrow for round 2; hopefully with 50% less Ashe-Holes. Nightshift tonight. Stay tuned for the continued adventures next week.
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Just curious, but is it your preference to go on vacation right after a night shift? I'd be exhausted...
 
bravotwozero said:
Just curious, but is it your preference to go on vacation right after a night shift? I'd be exhausted...
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It's not at all a preference, it's just the way the cookie crumbled both of these times. Flight left at 4pm today, so I slept from 6a to 1p, which was just fine.
 
TimesNewRoman said:
@RustedFox - I think you hit the nail on the head with the homeless adjacent activity. I felt like there were a lot of people living in rich mommy and daddy’s basement at night while trying to look homeless during the day. It didn’t feel like a weird city as much as it felt like a city that wanted so, so badly to be weird. Like, we’re weird....I mean...can’t you tell....please like me!????

If you want a little different type of experience than a cabin, try to Grand Bohemian hotel across from the Biltmore. One of the nicest hotels and guest experiences I’ve had. It was like 5 years ago and could have changed, but it was amazing. Greeted by name when I walked in. They knew it was our anneversary and upgraded our room to the room right across the hall since they knew we had a coupes massage scheduled so we wouldn’t have to change back to real clothes. Truly a great experience. Plus, they had a moonshine oldfashioned.
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Pretty spot on right here.

I started my undergrad near Asheville but rarely went into town. We were told that it was full of trust fund pseudo-hippies who are not to be trusted and that we were the true grassroots liberals. I have no idea what I was thinking going there. I must have been high.

I'd still check out the Orange Peel if you get a chance. Doesn't matter what's playing, all the music that comes through sounds the same. It's a good time though. I also did a lot of mountain biking around Jones Mountain just east of Asheville. It's free and you can easily make a day of it.
 
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RustedFox said:
So, we went to Asheville...And when we got to “town square” we found literally dozens of “crust punks” who had decided that town square was now their bedroom/bathroom/kitchen/etc. Seriously, the entire “downtown square” was overrun with homeless folks who were busy conducting homeless folk business. It was like a Wall Street for homeless people, or people who were semi-domiciled and wanted to otherwise be involved with the business that homeless people are involved in.
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Congratulations...you've passed the prerequisite course to visit San Francisco.
 
Old_Mil said:
Congratulations...you've passed the prerequisite course to visit San Francisco.
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If you do go to San Francisco just make sure you either pack some thick boots you don't care about or download "SnapCrap," their human-feces-on-the-street poop-locator app. Don't question, just download. You'll thank me, later.

"'SnapCrap' app invites San Francisco residents to report poop on city streets"

Edit: App download temporarily taken down because the app icon was too triggering. I mean, Apple should be triggered. This is their own town, for Pete's sake. But don't worry, the app is soon to be back up for download, apparently with a more PC icon that candy coats the fact that SF is covered in 24,456 piles of human feces, and counting.
 
Birdstrike said:
If you do go to San Francisco just make sure you either pack some thick boots you don't care about or download "SnapCrap," their human-feces-on-the-street poop-locator app. Don't question, just download. You'll thank me, later.

"'SnapCrap' app invites San Francisco residents to report poop on city streets"

Edit: App download temporarily taken down because the app icon was too triggering. I mean, Apple should be triggered. This is their own town, for Pete's sake. But don't worry, the app is soon to be back up for download, apparently with a more PC icon that candy coats the fact that SF is covered in 24,456 piles of human feces, and counting.
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My one visit to SF was about 5 years ago before it got this bad....and that was enough for me. Dirty, gross, crowded and way expensive no thanks. How in the United States do we allow one of our major iconic cities to become covered in feces? Do these permissive social justice types really feel that their policies are doing good on the whole?
 
Birdstrike said:
Yes, they feel their policies are "doing good." Their excuse for their catastrophically failed policies, is always the same, that, "We need more of them."
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What policies are you referring to?
HH
 
RustedFox said:
It's not at all a preference, it's just the way the cookie crumbled both of these times. Flight left at 4pm today, so I slept from 6a to 1p, which was just fine.
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Most vacations start that way in my experience for a doc working rotating shifts. Your biggest block off every month starts after a night shift. Makes for a tough first day or two unfortunately. I've been on many a trip after a night shift and still go on trips with an emergency doc doing all shifts who almost always works a night just before we leave.
 
Birdstrike said:
Policies that lead to streets covered in human poo.
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Yes, I assumed that was what you were referencing. My question is, what policies does SF enact that "lead to streets covered in human poo"?

HH
 
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Hamhock said:
Yes, I assumed that was what you were referencing. My question is, what policies does SF enact that "lead to streets covered in human poo"?

HH
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- Generous social services benefits which attract homeless
- Non-prosecution of public urination/defecation
- Allowance of loitering/tresspassing/squating on private and public property
- Inadequate public sanitation
- High housing costs due to NIMBY policies which drive people to be homeless
 
GeneralVeers said:
- Generous social services benefits which attract homeless
- Non-prosecution of public urination/defecation
- Allowance of loitering/tresspassing/squating on private and public property
- Inadequate public sanitation
- High housing costs due to NIMBY policies which drive people to be homeless
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I appreciate your response. I was actually expecting something vague to which I would be unable to respond.

Unfortunately, what you have given me are not policies per se. Yet, I will try to address each of these, a bit out of order.

1. "Allowance of loitering/tresspassing/squating on private and public property".
I am unable to find any policy, ordinance, or law that allows squating or trespassing in SF.
*Can you provide a link or reference to a policy, ordinance, or law allowing any of these on private property?
Loitering is clearly illegal in private businesses and in many public areas. Extended daytime stays are allowed in parks and open public spaces, but that is something that I don't think can be limited without infringing on the rights of citizens. Here is an area that I am very open to being educated about (I'd be especially interested if the proposal doesn't cost more money or increase the "social services...which attract homeless") ...as long as the proposed policy is constitutional and does not infringe on "my rights as a US citizen". My city is struggling with this issue in our parks as we speak.

2. Inadequate public sanitation.
Yes, this is a huge problem that SF and most other cities, including mine, have struggled with for years.
I am pretty sure this is not a policy. I am unable to find any law or even "leftist"/"socialist" (kinda kidding here) webpage arguing for less public sanitation. There are plenty arguing for MORE public facilities and sanitation, in fact.
However, taxes and policies that try to increase public facilities are the very monies and policies it seems you are railing against. This often leads to public urination/defecation and the third "policy" you listed.

3. Non-prosecution of public urination/defecation.
There is an effort to limit the extent and cost of ineffectual prosecutions, but there is not a law per se that suggests public urination or defecation not be prosecuted in SF.
There are extremely limited public funds in the city and great law-enforcement needs with higher priority. There is little benefit to giving most homeless another "citation" or summons. And there is little benefit to incarceration in county jail (I highly doubt anyone would argue for placing someone in a state or federal prison for public urination; if for cost reasons alone). Citations are given frequently; it's just that they are ineffective. The courts can't collect funds from people without money and incarcerating them for not paying or not showing up just crowds the jails and jacks up the costs (tax money going to the toilets😉
Public toilets would be much more effective, yet that requires money and "social services", which just "attract homeless".
However, other suggestions would surly be welcome in SF and most other cities with large homeless populations.

Your next two are the most interesting, controversial, and complex. I'll start with the easier one.

4. Generous social services benefits which attract homeless
There is some intuitive support for this concept, but in most cases (some California cities are exceptions), homelessness is not a "tourist" industry. SF and places like Santa Barbara and San Diego do have some homeless who are "from elsewhere", but the available social services are usually in response to a pre-existing or de facto problem with homelessness in that area (city, county, or nearby city). Almost no one decides they are going to give up her home to go "get some social services" while homeless. Perhaps the combination of social services, weather, public safety (eg better protections from domestic violence), and changing job markets in places like SF do contribute slightly, but these services are not "attracting homelessness".
Even if there was a lot of "homeless tourism", would you not want SF to increase these social services so that the city "keeps" the homeless from your hometown? (kinda joking with you here)

5.High housing costs due to NIMBY policies which drive people to be homeless
This one is the most interesting and partially substantiated claim. There are certainly local (ie neighborhood) efforts that create NIMBY restrictions on services and outreach. These local policies may be a contributor to the problem of homelessness in SF, but only as a small part of a much more complex issue and an extremely small part of the nearly overwhelming complex issue of housing costs in SF.

Probably a "TLDR" type response, but since I asked you, Veers, to provide some "leftist policies" and you gave what seems like a genuine response, I think a lengthy response is indicated.

I do look forward to your thoughts here...probably regarding numbers 4 and, particularly, 5; as I think I have pointed out 1-3 are not policies, laws, or ordinances. However, if you can find such a policy (even proposed policy/legislation) that calls for 1-3 in SF, I will gladly stand corrected. I just doubt and can't find anyone proposing the "Allowance of loitering/tresspassing/squating on private and public property". Please don't post links about SF not giving second or third citations for the same event or not sending summons to homeless people. That was addressed above.

On that note, I would be also interested in a "conservative" policy that you would consider legal and cost-effective for the SF problem with homelessness. As a rock star once said, "I ain't no Democrat -- and I am surely not a f**king Republican either". It's just that, at least in my city, we often hear of polices to address the problem of homeless from "liberals" or "lefties" and much less from conservatives.

I am open to ideas more than you may believe.

HH
 
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GeneralVeers said:
Workhouses, like in a Charles Dickens novel would solve a lot of the homeless problems. That and bringing back Sanitariums for the chronically mentally ill who refuse to be compliant with meds.
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Well, that is disappointing.

It's a Twitter world.

So much for the educated, the experts, and the intellectuals.

HH

(edit: not to say that we don't need the pendulum regarding involuntary psychiatric hospitalizations to swing back to some degree; and some people just need to be conserved)
 
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GeneralVeers said:
Workhouses, like in a Charles Dickens novel would solve a lot of the homeless problems. That and bringing back Sanitariums for the chronically mentally ill who refuse to be compliant with meds.
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I'm all for a Civilian Conservation Corps, v. 2.0.
Do something, and you'll feel good about yourself.
 
The problem with liberals is that they don't hold people to accountability.
 
d2305 said:
The problem with liberals is that they don't hold people to accountability.
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I don't have anything to say.
I just wanted to make sure that this post was "saved" and to prevent d2305 from editing it.
HH
 
Hamhock said:
I am open to ideas more than you may believe.

HH
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Rather than argue your salient points (and I don't have a dog in this fight other than I really like California wines and often end up starting and ending in SF), my rebuttal would be "why don't other cities have as bad of a problem as SF"?
I would be happy (probably not the right word) to hear about other cities that have had similar outcomes.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
Rather than argue your salient points..., my rebuttal would be "why don't other cities have as bad of a problem as SF"?
I would be happy (probably not the right word) to hear about other cities that have had similar outcomes.
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Briefly, there are other cities with it "as bad" as SF. Los Angeles and San Diego (anyone who toured just south of ACEP would have come across areas very similar to the Tenderloin) come immediately to mind (although LA's problem is more spread out). Furthermore, even if there weren't multiple cities with very similar problems, that would not be an argument supporting the idea that it is SF's (liberal) policies are the cause of the problem of homelessness.

That said, the bigger issue here is that often superficial reactions based on politics expressing tribalism are expressed without any consideration of the "salient points". These kinds of reactions are often in Twitter-sized soundbites that hide thoughtlessness, lack of deep consideration of the facts, over-generalization, and often uneducated viewpoints. Polarization is furthered and we end up giving equal weight to the arguments of the uneducated over the experts. Not everyone's viewpoint should be considered equivalent; especially when the speaker can not back up wild statements with evidence, reason, or consideration of the "salient points". Does no one study philosophy and statistics anymore?

HH
 
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I'm not sure LA and SD are that different politically than SF though.
I don't have a dog in this fight. It wasn't my accusation. I was just asking for more information.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
I'm not sure LA and SD are that different politically than SF though.
I don't have a dog in this fight. It wasn't my accusation. I was just asking for more information.
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Yeah, I now re-read my post and realize it seems I was responding to you, Ninja -- yet I wasn't really.
I don't mean to be accusing you, it's just that your reply was the most recent and convenient. I apologize if it came across as aggressive or personally directed.

In fact, I am not even really responding to the comments in this thread only (although there are some responses that I have highlighted above which are great examples of what I am trying to point out). Rather, these last few posts are just an expression of a more general frustration. I actually don't have a "dog in this fight" either, if the "fight" is about SF. I certainly don't identify with SF.

My "fight" is more with the nature of "fights" around here (and elsewhere). The EM forum is frighteningly close to the vacuous discourse elsewhere on SDN whenever a hint of politics comes up...and that's just sad...and it ruins many threads...and it should be shameful for anyone who values their intellect, as all EM docs should. It is particularly unfortunate when the threat involves topics related to medicine.
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That said, the politics in San Diego are very far from those in SF. San Diego may not be Trump country or god-fearing Alabama, but traditional conservatives have great power and the Republican party there (including the mayor's office, for years) would laugh at the suggestion that SJWs or "progressives" are directing policy.

HH
 
Hamhock said:
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That said, the politics in San Diego are very far from those in SF. San Diego may not be Trump country or god-fearing Alabama, but traditional conservatives have great power and the Republican party there (including the mayor's office, for years) would laugh at the suggestion that SJWs or "progressives" are directing policy.

HH
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Yep. Indicted congressman Duncan Hunter, Jr was handily re-elected. Large swaths are indeed Trump country.
 
d2305 said:
Too bad B1 Bob Dornan is gone.
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And that, in making my point better than I ever could and in so many other ways, is the perfect end to this thread. My god!

HH
 
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