Kicked out because of OMM

[Carly Anne]

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I have a situation and need advice. I was kicked out of my medical school because I had too many OMM practical failures. My problem was test anxiety in the orals because I would get nervous with professors watching me to treatments during these practicals and I'd start babbling without saying anything really. I didn't have this problem on my written tests or on my standardized patient encounters and I was in the top half of my class academically. I even passed the OMM courses but I just couldn't hack the practicals. No DO school will look at me for this but if I got help for my anxiety is there any chance the MD schools might since they don't have OMM? My academics were fine. Mostly B's. I'll start all over if I have to but is there a chance?

 

[g8orlife]

I have a situation and need advice. I was kicked out of my medical school because I had too many OMM practical failures. My problem was test anxiety in the orals because I would get nervous with professors watching me to treatments during these practicals and I'd start babbling without saying anything really. I didn't have this problem on my written tests or on my standardized patient encounters and I was in the top half of my class academically. I even passed the OMM courses but I just couldn't hack the practicals. No DO school will look at me for this but if I got help for my anxiety is there any chance the MD schools might since they don't have OMM? My academics were fine. Mostly B's. I'll start all over if I have to but is there a chance?

FYI: All medical specialties have graded physical exam lab practicals: PA, MD, DO, even nursing.

If you truly had anxiety problems with presenting the H&P while an evaluator graded you, you'll probably have a similar problem elsewhere.

I don't buy your line of: "No DO school will look at me for this..." If you overcome the anxiety, some DO schools will look at you. Probably more than MD schools.

 

[Carly Anne]

But I didn't have problems doing the physical exams on standardized patients and I was watched on those too. I didn't have a problem presenting either. I don't know what it was about OMM. I did fine on the tests but I guess I didn't understand what the treatments were all about. I didn't understand the purpose of my hands being where they were and what I was doing that would correct the problem the patient was having and because of that I didn't know what I was really doing and trying to accomplish and felt nervous and began babbling while doing the exam but got everything all wrong. I tried harder and harder everytime but I still couldn't wrap my head around alot of OMM. But regular physical exams that I understood were fine.

You think DO schools will still look at me? I really want to understand OMM so maybe I will apply to them after getting my anxiety under control but I assumed they wouldn't give me the time of day since I did so bad in OMM.

 

[Instatewaiter]

what were your stats? Why did you go DO in the first place?

 

[ProtossCarrier]

maybe DO school just isn;t for you. Also isn't this the MD board?

 

[Carly Anne]

My stats are 3.7 GPA and a 29 MCAT. I went DO because it was in state. I had one DO acceptance and one MD acceptance and the DO was in state so I chose it to stay close to family.

To the other poster yes this is the MD board and that's why I'm posting here. I want to know if any MD schools will take me once I work on my problem since OMM clearly didn't work out for me and I assumed no DO school would look at me since OMM is so important to them.

 

[Meerkatology]

off topic, but there are prn meds for performance anxiety that you could look into

 

[Rollo]

So your main problem was/is you didn't understand the purpose behind the OMM techniques.

How do you plan on working on your problem so that you can convince MD schools that you've worked on your problem?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

So your main problem was/is you didn't understand the purpose behind the OMM techniques.

How do you plan on working on your problem so that you can convince MD schools that you've worked on your problem?

MD doesn't practice OMM at all. Her problem was that she didn't understand what the hell OMM and the reason why she was doing it. And she did well in her patient encounters. Wow I can't believe your school would not allow you to repeat those classes or choose to repeat the year.

Did they even warn you are offer you help?

 

[rmsgolfer]

MD doesn't practice OMM at all. Her problem was that she didn't understand what the hell OMM and the reason why she was doing it. And she did well in her patient encounters. Wow I can't believe your school would not allow you to repeat those classes or choose to repeat the year.

Did they even warn you are offer you help?

It doesnt sounds like she didnt understand what OMM entailed seeing as she passed the written aspects of the course.

I'm having a hard time rationalizing how an MD (or DO) school will look passed this issue simply based of the idea that you couldn't perform treatments pertaining to OMM. To me this points to a much larger issue and basically tells schools that you can't handle pressure or follow through with procedures/treatments when it counts. All the knowledge and skill you learn in med school is useless if you can't apply it in practice where it really matters.

I also agree that it seems strange your school is not facilitating some sort of make up or remediation.

Truly, best of luck in the future.

 

[Rollo]

MD doesn't practice OMM at all. Her problem was that she didn't understand what the hell OMM and the reason why she was doing it. And she did well in her patient encounters. Wow I can't believe your school would not allow you to repeat those classes or choose to repeat the year.

Did they even warn you are offer you help?

Yes I'm aware that MD schools don't teach OMM. OP said she was going to work on her problem (which is understanding OMM) to convince MD schools to let her in. I'm trying to understand her reasoning behind this strategy.

 

[Gabby]

It doesnt sounds like she didnt understand what OMM entailed seeing as she passed the written aspects of the course.

I'm having a hard time rationalizing how an MD (or DO) school will look passed this issue simply based of the idea that you couldn't perform treatments pertaining to OMM. To me this points to a much larger issue and basically tells schools that you can't handle pressure or follow through with procedures/treatments when it counts. All the knowledge and skill you learn in med school is useless if you can't apply it in practice where it really matters.

I also agree that it seems strange your school is not facilitating some sort of make up or remediation.

Truly, best of luck in the future.

That isn't really true because her physical exams during SP encounters went fine. It sounds like this problem is exclusive to practicing OMM. One can memorize the theory behind it to pass a written exam but if you don't know why you're doing what you're doing, you won't know where to put your hands, what to say during the practical, what you're feeling for, what your treatment will do, etc. for the practical. That's all stuff you have to say. If you don't understand the theory, you won't be able to.

 

[Dirt]

Sorry to be harsh but I doubt any MD schools are going to look at a DO dropout that was only pulling Bs. Your best bet is to try other DO schools.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

OP you got into an MD school before and you can do it again. You got kicked out because you can't do a OMM procedure that has little scientific backing not due to not getting the material or academic dishonesty. B's in Medschool good considering that about 50% of nearly every med class gets them or grades below.

Many MD schools allow students to repeat the year if they fail. Just apply to MD schools again you got into one before. SDN likes to make things sound worse than they are like if you reject an acceptance to a D.O school you can't get in. ADCOMs I talked to say there are reasons not to go to a school. Like if they don't have a nurturing environment which is clearly the case of the OPs school.

And to the above poster who said that she did know what she was doing yeah anybody can write about something but to practice on a person with little scientific basis can make a person nervous.

OP apply to MD schools with your story I'm sure you'll get in somewhere

 

[JaggerPlate]

OP you got into an MD school before and you can do it again. You got kicked out because you can't do a OMM procedure that has little scientific backing not due to not getting the material or academic dishonesty. B's in Medschool good considering that about 50% of nearly every med class gets them or grades below.

Many MD schools allow students to repeat the year if they fail. Just apply to MD schools again you got into one before. SDN likes to make things sound worse than they are like if you reject an acceptance to a D.O school you can't get in. ADCOMs I talked to say there are reasons not to go to a school. Like if they don't have a nurturing environment which is clearly the case of the OPs school.

And to the above poster who said that she did know what she was doing yeah anybody can write about something but to practice on a person with little scientific basis can make a person nervous.

OP apply to MD schools with your story I'm sure you'll get in somewhere

I'm sure you've come to this conclusion after conducting thorough research on OMM yourself, correct? Making such assumptions without doing the appropriate grunt work would seem like a modality with little 'scientific basis' behind it!

I recall reading studies in the New England Journal of Medicine and the American Journal of OB/GYN that found OMT was an effective treatment for back pain. These are just two sources that I figured out be significant enough to satisfy any issues.

Having said that ...

OP, I'm really sorry to hear this. I honestly can't believe they would dismiss you from school based on failing OMM practicals. No offense to OMM (I'm actually quite fond of it), but it's quite a small part of the overall curriculum and doesn't have much weight on how well you'll perform on boards, in residency, etc (except for maybe COMLEX PE). I attend a school that is heavy on OMM, and I've heard fellows and professors tell us that they will help us and keep working (via remediation) until we 'pass' OMM. Furthermore, these practical exams can be stressful! Not only are you being timed on something that is pretty subjective (time wise - if you get a healthy, normal student without much dysfunction, it's difficult to find, let alone treat anything), but you have to perform in front of a professor/clinician who eats, sleeps, and breaths OMM. I can definitely see choking up and having issues recovering.

I really suggest trying to appeal the decision and, if this works, doing all that you can to pass the OMM practicals. I think you may have a hard time reapplying elsewhere. Good luck!

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I'm sure you've come to this conclusion after conducting thorough research on OMM yourself, correct? Making such assumptions without doing the appropriate grunt work would seem like a modality with little 'scientific basis' behind it!

I recall reading studies in the New England Journal of Medicine and the American Journal of OB/GYN that found OMT was an effective treatment for back pain. These are just two sources that I figured out be significant enough to satisfy any issues.

OMM philosophy is what I'm talking about if it is just back limited to back massage than yeah which is why I said little evidence. Which is why fewer and fewer physicians really "practice" it.

 

[JaggerPlate]

OMM philosophy is what I'm talking about if it is just back limited to back massage than yeah which is why I said little evidence.

So ... you've studied the philosophy and concluded that it's 'back massage?' I'm not going to sit here and deny the fact that OMM research is lacking (personally, I think research funding at small, private DO schools and difficulties setting up true double blind studies with manipulative medicine plays a huge roll), nor am I going to say that some of the techniques are not more valid than others, but I do find it ironic that you would dismiss OMM because it has not been researched enough, but you aren't interested in researching it and coming to a sound conclusion on your own. Seems like bad science, which is why you're claiming to not put much merit in OMM in the first place.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

So ... you've studied the philosophy and concluded that it's 'back massage?' I'm not going to sit here and deny the fact that OMM research is lacking (personally, I think research funding at small, private DO schools and difficulties setting up true double blind studies with manipulative medicine plays a huge roll), nor am I going to say that some of the techniques are not more valid than others, but I do find it ironic that you would dismiss OMM because it has not been researched enough, but you aren't interested in researching it and coming to a sound conclusion on your own. Seems like bad science, which is why you're claiming to not put much merit in OMM in the first place.

Then these studies should be done by physicians/scientists, you shouldn't teach poorly understood physical examinations or treatments to med students which are to be performed on patients, which is why the OP was nervous. It is bugging me that a med school would dismiss a student who performed poorly on OMM practicals but did well on the OMM written and the other actual scientific classes and the real patient encounters.

 

[Cheshyre]

Then these studies should be done by physicians/scientists, you shouldn't teach poorly understood physical examinations or treatments to med students which are to be performed on patients, which is why the OP was nervous.

So we should never send patients to PTs?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

So we should never send patients to PTs?

To my knowledge PTs are not taught Craniosacral therapy. Also PT's are backed by kinesiology, exercise science and biomechanics. Hence it is scientifically sound.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Then these studies should be done by physicians/scientists, you shouldn't teach poorly understood physical examinations or treatments to med students which are to be performed on patients, which is why the OP was nervous. It is bugging me that a med school would dismiss a student who performed poorly on OMM practicals but did well on the OMM written and the other actual scientific classes and the real patient encounters.

Who says these studies aren't done by physician/scientists? Furthermore, I'm positive the OP wasn't nervous performing the techniques because they aren't (in your opinion) scientifically sound. That's absurd. He/she was nervous because a. It's hard to find and treat dysfunction on a young, healthy peer, b. it's even harder when you have a timer clicking down in your face, c. it's even HARDER when you have an instructor literally standing right next to you, grading your every move.

Additionally, I'm just as shocked that the OP was dismissed because of this. It's silly. You know it and I know it. I find it even more odd because I go to a school with a heavy OMM curriculum and, to my knowledge, you are worked with until you pass.

To my knowledge PTs are not taught Craniosacral therapy. Also PT's are backed by kinesiology, exercise science and biomechanics. Hence it is scientifically sound.

Wow, honestly ... the only way I can describe your POV on this subject is blatantly ignorant. Do you have absolutely any idea how much physical therapy and OMM overlap? I honestly think you are putting too much emphasis on cranial here. It's one technique out of the hundreds available to DOs, and I'd say a hefty majority of individuals don't touch it for a variety of reasons. However, I guarantee you that a large portion of what a DO does on general musculo skeletal issues overlaps with what a physical therapist does in a manipulation/stretching scenario. Ergo, these techniques are also backed by kinesiology, biodynamics, etc.

I'm very surprised that you would jump to these conclusions so quickly - OMT practiced by DOs isn't sound, PT is sound, and there isn't significant overlap. I honestly hope you'll do a bit more research into OMM at some point.

 

[thepoopologist]

To my knowledge PTs are not taught Craniosacral therapy. Also PT's are backed by kinesiology, exercise science and biomechanics. Hence it is scientifically sound.

Have you been exposed to OMT at all?

 

[denco88]

Okay... I'm not going to sit here and claim OMM is going to cure cancer one day. HOWEVER, I am going to comment as a person who had had OMM done one me. I have been a gymnast since I was 2 years old. With that said, my joints, hips, and back suck! We have a DO who specializes in OMM who comes in once a week to work on teams at my University. And honestly, I would not have been able to get through practices without him.

 

[thepoopologist]

But I didn't have problems doing the physical exams on standardized patients and I was watched on those too. I didn't have a problem presenting either. I don't know what it was about OMM. I did fine on the tests but I guess I didn't understand what the treatments were all about. I didn't understand the purpose of my hands being where they were and what I was doing that would correct the problem the patient was having and because of that I didn't know what I was really doing and trying to accomplish and felt nervous and began babbling while doing the exam but got everything all wrong. I tried harder and harder everytime but I still couldn't wrap my head around alot of OMM. But regular physical exams that I understood were fine.

You think DO schools will still look at me? I really want to understand OMM so maybe I will apply to them after getting my anxiety under control but I assumed they wouldn't give me the time of day since I did so bad in OMM.

What do these written tests cover then, if not the technique and the theory behind it?

And you're telling me that in lab, when they teach you these techniques, they do not explain them at all to you?

Yet you can still perform physical exams on standardized patients because you understand the purpose of them. Right.

I'm sorry, but either

1. This is the worse OMM department in the country
2. You did not practice for the lab practicals
3. Or you are trolling


I do not believe a word of the three posts on your account. In my experience, people who fail OMM practicals do not practice for them. You do not have to understand **** to pass them, you just need to practice.


You also do not have to understand **** to get through a physical exam on a standardized patient. I could give my stethoscope to anybody on the street and teach them how to listen to the five posts of the heart, the anterior, posterior, lateral lung fields, to test for ROM, to test reflexes, etc. Would they know why they were doing it? Hell no, but with practice they could enter a room and go through the motions.

 

[Dr Oops]

What do these written tests cover then, if not the technique and the theory behind it?

And you're telling me that in lab, when they teach you these techniques, they do not explain them at all to you?

Yet you can still perform physical exams on standardized patients because you understand the purpose of them. Right.

I'm sorry, but either

1. This is the worse OMM department in the country
2. You did not practice for the lab practicals
3. Or you are trolling


I do not believe a word of the three posts on your account. In my experience, people who fail OMM practicals do not practice for them. You do not have to understand **** to pass them, you just need to practice.


You also do not have to understand **** to get through a physical exam on a standardized patient. I could give my stethoscope to anybody on the street and teach them how to listen to the five posts of the heart, the anterior, posterior, lateral lung fields, to test for ROM, to test reflexes, etc. Would they know why they were doing it? Hell no, but with practice they could enter a room and go through the motions.

Im gonna have to agree with this post.

I dont see how you can pass the writtens and still not understand the practicals. Even in the practicals they dont expect you to have the greatest palpatory skills. You could simply go through the motions and still pass most likely.

The writtens are usually much harder because you have to actually know whats going on with the anatomy and how the technique is affecting it.

 

[ProtossCarrier]

why is this thread become bashing ground? Take the DO discussion back to DO board. The solution is incredily simple. OP either petition, if not, then reapply to MD school because she obviously does not jive with OMM.