Kirby - Game Thread

[mightyrunner7]

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Appreciate some what? What were you typing

Also it’s a phrase I’ve used in wolf chat quite often and it made my nose hairs tickle

Haha, knew you were gong to ask that

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dubz/Boquise interactions

Dubz on Boq:

Spoiler

For why?

I expanded on that later - I was specifically interested in PSV's read there because she was pretty quick to village read samac last game* and I remembered talking to her about that read at the time, and her general ability to read samac

I had and still have samac in neutral so I didn't have an answer to her question

*oh god more meta

Her answer worried me but at the moment I'm not sure if I'm more worried about her or about samac because of it.

Powervillage, powerwolf, power choker lol

In all seriousness I think they're pretty similar. I'm chatty and jokey and tend to be a prominent thread voice, though not necessarily an accurate one. I'm hard to push as any alignment. I haven't wolfed in a year so I'm starting to forget my own scum meta but I think I tend to be a bit more pushy when I'm wolfing because I'm trying to direct things. My village meta is a lot of stream of consciousness and a tendency towards snap reads based on vibes, which I have a hard time replicating authentically when I'm scum. I think the disparity between the two becomes more evident as the game progresses because it's harder to be sneaky about pushing my agenda, and to replicate the emotions I tend to have as a villager the closer we get to endgame.

Wolf village
village
village
wolf
village

Jesus crust

Village lite, village, wolfy, neutral, village, wolfy, neutral

Talk about emotional whiplash

Some of these are direct responses to suspicion Boquise had cast upon her. I think she looks like she is genuinely trying to explain herself to someone that isn't coordinating this conversation with her (i.e., Boquise isn't in her wolf chat).

Boq on Dubz:

Spoiler

oh alright, thanks tbh
unyeet dubz yeet nate

Unyeet Dubz, Yeet Nate

I dont feel like the kirby squad sold this that well
Aside from the wolfy thing I saw Dubz do early today, I dont feel bad about em.

this is a good piece of evidence for the Dubz case. Good job Mothy tbh. Since Mighty isn't here you can be my substitute sidekick tbh

i dont understand the dubz wagon

unyeet nate, yeet Dubz
will follow my town reads.

or wait
unyeet dubz

I have never played with Dubz before but she feels in general like a strong player
If she is a misyeet, it means town did a big one for scum.
And I dont like that.

However, thread-wise, she has felt like where wolves would want to be during a D1 (until the votes happened) - as in, middle of the pack.
And my town reads are voting her
And I found one post to be wolfy

Mayo on the other hand has posted mostly nonsense until close to the end of the day
has been solvy now
reacted okay to being pushed
But is an enigma of rand and will most likely be in everyone's poe for a very long time


Idk who i wanna vote

ok so i have been sus on various levels on everyone in the mayo wagon, and town read everyone on the dubz wagon

yeet dubz



gn tbh

^
Dubz search
WildZoo search
v

i guess my problem with pippy is that some posts sound like wolf salt, annoyed for being caught early, but a lot of that can also be read as vindicative town pushing back against the establishment

so idk

Yeet WildZoo tbh

busy wolf sweeping tbh

I found this post to be mildly wolfy tbh:


Potential was asking for reasons why players are town reading samac, and your response is sorta of a non-response? It starts with some mild shade "She's tricksy that one" that develops into a nothing read, to then turn it around with a question. Like you weren't answering the question really, instead your explanation is that samac is tricksy and getting on people's good side (which is pocketing). So that means that people are being pocketed by her, according to you.

And I realise I am delving deep here, but it is a sort of non-answer I expect wolves to write to get conversation going.

yeah and i respect that and stuff
however i find the immediate reaction/post to weight more
did you feel like you got a sufficient answer from Potential?

Whats your village meta and your scum meta

Could you expand your worry?

>Uses "I'm fully in my village meta" as an answer to "are you wolfing"
>Says that wolf meta and scum meta are pretty similar.

My knee-jerk reaction is that this sort of discrepancy comes from town than scum tbh

This isn't all in order because of the Dubz/WildZoo split. Boquise had a somewhat turbulent read on Dubz throughout Day 1, but we should be clear about something: his final vote (the one that he has been catching some flak for) did not come out of nowhere. There was an established trend of suspicion clearly evident in his posts well before that point, and to ignore that is to basically ignore Boq entirely. I don't think this looks like a teammate of Dubz at all.

Conclusion

Boquise is town, and he should not be in people's POEs. That's one of my most comfortable reads in the game, and even if people don't take me seriously right now this better not be forgotten when I am dead. At the very least, take a close look at the full breadth of his dealings with Dubz before lazily dropping a vote on him because he is an unknown commodity to y'all.

 

[genny]

Yes, “cast tinfoil on Zenge” is my mafia strategy. What is the point of this question?

What’s your point with shoehorning people into the POE that don’t belong there? Why did you even post that about Zenge?

I do think it’s mafia strategy to broaden the POE as much as possible and throw doubt around about core villagers so that endgame paranoia gets a misyeet.

 

[PippyPony]

I do think it’s mafia strategy to broaden the POE as much as possible and throw doubt around about core villagers so that endgame paranoia gets a misyeet.

Sometimes it's just someone like me choking

 

[holdthemayo]

In addition to them, I've most sus of Dr Wil from a content/reads perspective. If Dubz flips wolf the VCA will look pretty good for them. I don't know if they are comfortable bussing or not.

Medium sus of Nate and mothy

I feel good about PSV, Dina, Zenges (pending this vote), and boquise

Lighter good feels about Pippy and Samac

The rest are neutral or traditionally difficult for me to read

--As of page 21 and recent posts--

@holdthemayo - neutral (V). I'll officially promote him out of my PoE due to some solid points before end of day and more general engagement. The consistent mix of serious posts and general absurdity feels more genuine as time progresses. I think the biggest complaint would be he really has only offered 1 meaningful read so far (JJJ), but since this is also my read, it's hard to fault him on it too much.

I did post a read list yesterday. But yes, j has been my #1

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What’s your point with shoehorning people into the POE that don’t belong there? Why did you even post that about Zenge?

I do think it’s mafia strategy to broaden the POE as much as possible and throw doubt around about core villagers so that endgame paranoia gets a misyeet.

I didn't put Zenge in the POE. I don't want him there. You're not reading my posts.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am going to be dead very soon. This is my only opportunity to express any concerns I have, no matter how remote. So I am going to do it.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@samac your homework moving forward is to police the game thread for evidence of confirmation bias and ensure people are carefully reading and considering the nuances of posts. This is especially important for players that are newer here and not known as well, because they are the most likely to be misinterpreted. As it happens I think there's a concentration of less-known-to-SDN people in the consensus POE, and that might be perfectly accurate. But it also suggests a bias may exist, and I think you're well-suited to verifying that it's not an issue (or discovering that it is).

 

[NateTheLesser]

Morning. Some thoughts in a minute, but first: spreadsheets! (Putting them in separate posts so I can quote later)

 

[NateTheLesser]

Day 1 Votes​

 

[NateTheLesser]

Waterfall​

EOD Wagons​

 

[NateTheLesser]

(I don't think all of you have seen me do this, so I'm happy to explain if needed. In short, it's every vote that occurred on day one in a nice visual format)

 

[NateTheLesser]

Now, the first observation on the VCA and what I noticed when re-reading a large chunk of the thread: I didn't like how Dubz danced around the mayo wagon, especially later in the phase. When mayo was an actual wagon she followed samac onto me, which tied me with mayo. And then after her own wagon started accumulating (and mine had died), she moved back to Pippy instead of mayo. This is despite mayo being GTH wolf for her that morning:

village
wolf
village
village
wolf

And also mayo being in her POE (this is shortly after moving her vote back to Pippy):

Pippy, mayo, moon, samac are my focus atm. Idk if that's in order, but top choice would be...where I'm voting.

I'm saving my last pre-EOD post for a couple hours from now but I'll be lurking 👀

I don't like it.

Yeet mayo

 

[NateTheLesser]

Inb4 Jay starts talking about salad.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As a baseline for how I view the suspicion of me today (in terms of how suspicious I find it), from least suspicious to most suspicious:

Entered the day with an established hunch and acted on the hunch (Zenge, mighty) < confirmation bias group (Pippy, genny, Boquise) < talking about me but not making stance clear (samac, DrWilgy) < generating a hunch when it was already convenient (mayo, mothy) < not really talking about it (Dina, Nate) < trusting me for some reason (moonster)

To be clear, these aren't my overall reads. This is just an assessment of how people are treating/have treated their reads on me. It does more or less align with my POE though, which may evidence my own confirmation bias (or just that it worked out that way).

 

[NateTheLesser]

Another very surface-level VCA note: that would be some impressive partner-waffling by Boq.

 

[Zenge142]

You didn’t answer I don’t think - what was different about me asking vs Jay asking?

I guess I just never envisioned a Samac/Dubz W/W world

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Inb4 Jay starts talking about salad.

That's not salad, and your point is fair. mayo was ripe for the picking and Dubz declined to vote him in favor of Pippy. That's valid.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

vote mayo

Still don't really believe he has played an authentic game, and he has been cleared for terrible reasons.

Ignore me now, don't ignore me later when my name is green.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

unvote moonster
vote mayo

Unfortunate to lose a post for this correction lol but oh well

 

[DrWilgy]

unvote moonster
vote mayo

Unfortunate to lose a post for this correction lol but oh well

I thought naked vote posts didn't count towards the totals.

 

[genny]

unvote moonster
vote mayo

Unfortunate to lose a post for this correction lol but oh well

Naked yeet votes don't count.

 

[moonstermash]

Now, the first observation on the VCA and what I noticed when re-reading a large chunk of the thread: I didn't like how Dubz danced around the mayo wagon, especially later in the phase. When mayo was an actual wagon she followed samac onto me, which tied me with mayo. And then after her own wagon started accumulating (and mine had died), she moved back to Pippy instead of mayo. This is despite mayo being GTH wolf for her that morning:


And also mayo being in her POE (this is shortly after moving her vote back to Pippy):


I don't like it.

Yeet mayo

Yeah, I can sheep this.

Unvote mighty
Vote mayo

 

[NateTheLesser]

On Jay.

I know he already made this point himself so it's an extra layer of wifom, but: PSV's legacy for a w!Dubz was basically to protect Jay with her life and yeet mothy into the sun. She didn't seem swayed at all by the argument that Dubz/Jay were paired. That's a good person to have around when you know you'll be fighting off those accusations.

A couple things from Dubz that I found on a re-read that gave me some perspective weirdness with the idea of a Dubz/Jay world. Her response to Pippy saying that she was giving off "weird shade vibes at JJJ" (this was in her postcap wall):

And no that didn't really factor in, though I still don't get your point there because I was never shading Jay.

And then after cap lifted in her salt post (this was in response to PSV echoing the claim that she'd been shading Jay):

Oh my god. I literally didn't shade Jay. I presented reasoning and voted for Pippy. And I directly confronted samac about her different behavior this game. That's not bits of shade. At all.

Both of these were long after people had followed Zenge onto Dubz' wagon (the second was only 45 minutes to EOD). Why does w!Dubz poke at that as being a misrep..? Maybe this is one of my weird perspective things, but in a Dubz/Jay world, if she's looking like the decisive yeet and people seem to be unpairing her with Jay, you let that ride instead of pushing back and saying "how dare you I never shaded Jay!". That just seems to come more from a world where Dubz was pocketing Jay and wanted to keep them partnered in people's minds, to me.

 

[NateTheLesser]

I certainly have concerns about Jay that I don't want to ignore, either. As I mentioned I've almost entirely seen him up close as a wolf and the one time he wasn't it was a situation where we couldn't work together, so I'm never sure if what I'm expecting from his town game is realistic (maybe Wilgy can shed light on this). But what I've noticed in hindsight in his wolf games is that he produces town reads, and produces the building blocks of a "town core" (his GTH exercises, deep dives on interactions), but doesn't actually want a town core to form so he doesn't directly engage much with his town reads to put those blocks together.

 

[NateTheLesser]

I think my rough ranking at this point is something like this, not entirely ordered:
Zenge
Pippy
samac
mothy
Boq
moonster
JJJ
Dina
Wilgy
genny
mighty
mayo

 

[moonstermash]

Some rambling thoughts about Nate, mostly meta. I think there's plenty already to clear him as town, but more couldn't hurt.

Potentially wrong read since IDK that I've ever been town against wolf!Nate - I'd make a pretty good pocket for him with little effort, and I'm not feeling that here. Wolf!Nate also tends towards chaos, which I'm not seeing, either in his behavior or Dubz'. But it's also been awhile since I've seen wolf!Nate in general, I think? And D2 is maybe too early to notice much in the realm of chaos. (I guess drunk posting could be chaotic, but I lean towards just not posting as wolf there? I'm a teetotaler, though, maybe y'all are different. And the post min complicates some of this, too - he likely felt some pressure to get his posts up, town or wolf.)

Also, he usually does the spreadsheet regardless of alignment, but at this point I don't have any reason to think he's got ulterior motives. I follow his logic; Dubz going back to Pippy instead of attempting self-pres on mayo is weird. (Kinda makes me think mayo might be a wolf PR, and Dubz was vanilla? Or IDK, maybe the wolves didn't have much presence/thread control at that point - Dubz was gone for awhile, at least. And it was a big train where people were following Zenge, some I think mistakenly believing a read card had been used, so that complicates it, too.) Suppose I'll reconsider if mayo flips town.

 

[PippyPony]

Idk what to do about this many people putting me in green

I've never been this village in my whole life

 

[PippyPony]

I'm not very good at reading Mayo, so I don't know how helpful I'll be there.

Nate's vote spreadsheet is basically village spew

 

[NateTheLesser]

I certainly have concerns about Jay that I don't want to ignore, either. As I mentioned I've almost entirely seen him up close as a wolf and the one time he wasn't it was a situation where we couldn't work together, so I'm never sure if what I'm expecting from his town game is realistic (maybe Wilgy can shed light on this). But what I've noticed in hindsight in his wolf games is that he produces town reads, and produces the building blocks of a "town core" (his GTH exercises, deep dives on interactions), but doesn't actually want a town core to form so he doesn't directly engage much with his town reads to put those blocks together.

To this point, it matters to me that Boq mentioned feeling like Jay wasn't interested in working with him, since Boq is firmly in Jay's greens.

It also matters a great deal to me to get a firmer read there, because I think Jay and Mayo are hard unaligned.

 

[NateTheLesser]

Idk what to do about this many people putting me in green

I've never been this village in my whole life

You're never with Dubz, she was trying way too hard to chomp you.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Boq and I are hindered by our time zones in the work together department, but I definitely town read him.

@NateTheLesser and @moonstermash how much experience do you have playing together?

 

[moonstermash]

VCA notes I am putting in thread because post minimum. There aren't any solid conclusions, just curiosities. Feel free to ignore if you don't have a lot of time.

Spoiler

Waterfall​

One thing that jumps out at me here, though I don't quite know what to make of it, is that there's 0 overlap between moth and Pippy voters. Dubz, genny, samac, Wilgy, and Zenge voted Pippy; JJJ, me, Pippy, and PSV voted moth. And that leaves 6 people that voted neither (Boq, Dina, mayo, mighty, mothy, and Nate). IDK if this is just a dichotomy of LHF that reflects more on the voters than the voted (Pippy succinct and a little blunt, moth a n00b), or if it's more. I mean, Dubz is in here, so... 🔍

(Perfectly symmetrical haystacking would be one wolf in every pile. Which works with Dubz on Pippy, mayo voting neither, and one in JJJ, me, and Pippy. I kinda feel like the moth wagon is pure, though? Neither of them was a viable wagon when Dubz was run up, so it's hard to say if the wolves would be more likely to be together on Pippy or off entirely.)

It almost stands out more on the vote tally:

Day 1 Votes​

They're the two early wagons, and moth's wagon grows as Pippy's plateaus. Then they both fade away as Dubz' wagon really takes off. Hmm.

 

[moonstermash]

I think Boq and I are hindered by our time zones in the work together department, but I definitely town read him.

@NateTheLesser and @moonstermash how much experience do you have playing together?

We hydra'd together once on MU, and we've played a bunch on The Avocado (I joined the site before Nate, but he plays more than me). Estimating, I'd say close to a dozen games played together (or at the very least specced). I don't think we've ever been in the same wolf pack (though I've been a wolf while he's modded), and I don't think I've ever been town against him as wolf (can't remember if the opposite is true), though.

Overall, a good amount of experience, I'd say.

 

[moonstermash]

We hydra'd together once on MU, and we've played a bunch on The Avocado (I joined the site before Nate, but he plays more than me). Estimating, I'd say close to a dozen games played together (or at the very least specced). I don't think we've ever been in the same wolf pack (though I've been a wolf while he's modded), and I don't think I've ever been town against him as wolf (can't remember if the opposite is true), though.

Overall, a good amount of experience, I'd say.

Nate is free to correct me; based on his vote spreadsheets, he probably keeps better notes on past games than I do. 😅

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We hydra'd together once on MU, and we've played a bunch on The Avocado (I joined the site before Nate, but he plays more than me). Estimating, I'd say close to a dozen games played together (or at the very least specced). I don't think we've ever been in the same wolf pack (though I've been a wolf while he's modded), and I don't think I've ever been town against him as wolf (can't remember if the opposite is true), though.

Overall, a good amount of experience, I'd say.

Thanks.

I ask because you’re both broadly in people’s POE, and in this environment (where you’re not known yet and Nate is only semi-known) that poses a unique challenge. If either or both of you are town, I think you bear the biggest responsibility to find each other by whatever means. Others will be more likely to listen to both of you than one or the other. As importantly if it’s not happening, make that known clearly and consistently. @NateTheLesser too.

This is your mutual homework assignment.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Day 2 Yeet Tally
Wilgy (2) - Pippy 30, Dina 5
Boq (1) - samac 30
Dina (2) - Boq 39, Wilgy 35
mighty () -
JJJ (4) - mighty 21, Zenge 9, mayo 35, moth 20
moon () -
mayo (3) - Nate 33, JJJ 87, moon 29

12/13
yeet close in ~9 hours

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Posting minimums, friends.

 

[moonstermash]

Posting minimums, friends.

Day 2 Yeet Tally
Wilgy (2) - Pippy 30, Dina 5
Boq (1) - samac 30
Dina (2) - Boq 39, Wilgy 35
mighty () -
JJJ (4) - mighty 21, Zenge 9, mayo 35, moth 20
moon () -
mayo (3) - Nate 33, JJJ 87, moon 29

12/13
yeet close in ~9 hours

Most of us:

(Based on a brief perusal of the second StarWWdew game, the mods could go for some mass death. Best not to tempt them...)

 

[moonstermash]

Thanks.

I ask because you’re both broadly in people’s POE, and in this environment (where you’re not known yet and Nate is only semi-known) that poses a unique challenge. If either or both of you are town, I think you bear the biggest responsibility to find each other by whatever means. Others will be more likely to listen to both of you than one or the other. As importantly if it’s not happening, make that known clearly and consistently. @NateTheLesser too.

This is your mutual homework assignment.

For clarity, I'm feeling pretty good about Nate town. I might have some paranoia D3 or D4 (if we're both still around, of course), but as long as it doesn't turn into a full scum read, he's probably still town.* (*Standard disclaimer about not having faced his wolf game applies.)

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gonna try to actually rank my reads now instead of just color tiers. Still tiers, but in rough order most to least town:

Zenge

Pippy
Boquise
samac
mighty

genny

DrWilgy
Nate
moonster

Dina
mothy
mayo

 

[moonstermash]

I'm not very good at reading Mayo, so I don't know how helpful I'll be there.

Nate's vote spreadsheet is basically village spew

I wouldn't town read Nate for the spreadsheet alone. Like I said, he's done it regardless of alignment.

 

[Dinashadow]

why does a wolf do that?

I once as a wolf made a very dramatic display and flip-flopped voting someone I was village reading to save my packmate to make myself seem like a confused and unsure villager who was very torn about my votes, obv that's not what happened here because dubz was a wolf, but the sentiment feels the same re: wolfy theater

I was reacting to what I was seeing in the moment, it stuck out to me, so I made a comment about it. When I did I hadn't remembered you voted dubz earlier so I was under the impression you had flipped your read on her very abruptly, obviously I was wrong

With the earlier dubz vote I think it'd be weird for you and dubz to be aligned and so I'm not really feeling your vote today

 

[Dinashadow]

if you are a wolf, the post is made to discredit the wagon and Wilgy tbh
Why did you not push me and Wilgy harder yesterday?

okay but I'm not a wolf, so that point is moot to me

and by yesterday do you mean last cycle? Because I wasn't wolf reading you last cycle or really wilgy, although I found his reads difficult to follow I kinda just wanted to hang back and get a feel for how ya'll play

Also because I'm busy it's easy for me to come in late and just sheep a zenge reading card read especially when I was feeling weird about dubz' read of me so that's why I did what I did last cycle

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Dinashadow

Would you be able to just briefly state your current read on each player? I don’t ask for big paragraphs or anything (unless you want to). Just villager/null/wolf for everyone would be a big help.

You could even break it up into numerous posts 😉

 

[Dinashadow]

wait dina is a newbie?

Day un-ruined. Dina isn’t a n00b!

I've been playing off and on for a couple of years, but still have what the cool kids are calling skill issue 😎

 

[Dinashadow]

Opportunistic how? We yeeted a wolf.

I don't think the dubz wagon is pure, I think the dubz reading card carries a lot of weight and if it looks like she's going down it's easy to pop on her vote at the right time and try to gain some village cred

 

[Dinashadow]

@Dinashadow and @JaggedJimmyJay, may I have you both iterate how my reads have been hard to follow?

Today has been me simply doing VCA and I think the outcomes of said VCA were presented quite clearly.

I think my reads yesterday were also presented clearly, so idk where the mishap is if these are good faith statements.

Yes, just give me some time to pull quotes

 

[Dinashadow]

@Dinashadow

Would you be able to just briefly state your current read on each player? I don’t ask for big paragraphs or anything (unless you want to). Just villager/null/wolf for everyone would be a big help.

You could even break it up into numerous posts 😉

oho very true!

I will happily do that but I'm going to take my crazy dogs for a walk because somebody decided to go on a trip and leave me with the crazy beasts

 

[moonstermash]

I think this is where my gut is at now (tiers alphabetical, not ranked) (also tiers may imply a greater level of separation than there is):

Boq
JJJ
Nate
Zenge

genny
Pippy
samac

Dina
mayo (originally in a lower tier alone, but that felt too severe, even though I'm voting him)
mighty
moth
Wilgy

I know Zenge is super-cleared for some (most?) people based on Dubz sus/wagoning, but without re-reading or seeing a clear case I'm just not quite that confident. And IDK that I could explain all these placements satisfactorily (even to myself). Things could move around as people come back into the thread, too.