KYCOM vs KCUMB vs Western Pomona

[VespaDO4life]

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thoughts??

 

[DrWily]

 

[drgioiadds]

lol!!

 

[poopyhead]

allow me to translate for DrWily 😉

WesternU 👍

 

[Juice9]

anywhere but KYCOM

 

[JeetKuneDo]

anywhere but KYCOM

Seriously this thread should be titled KCUMB vs Western.

 

[DocEspana]

Seriously this thread should be titled KCUMB vs Western.

$100 say the kid is already accepted to KYCOM, neither of the other two, really wants to go to KY, will question anything we say that is critical of KYCOM and/or positive of the other two, and will eventually simply storm off and say its "all subjective anyway"

 

[drgioiadds]

Personally, of the 2 I'd go to Western.

 

[DocEspana]

Personally, of the 2 I'd go to Western.

Really? Hm. I would have thought this was a rather one sided "clearly KCUMB" moment. I mean, its not like it was WVSOM vs PCOM or something equally lopsided, but I figured KCUMB would be unanimous.

What made you suggest Western Pomona? Its established and all, but I never really hear anything great about it (nor anything bad). I just figure its a solid school, while KCUMB is one of those schools that you generally go "well thats a really good school"

 

[DrWily]

Really? Hm. I would have thought this was a rather one sided "clearly KCUMB" moment. I mean, its not like it was WVSOM vs PCOM or something equally lopsided, but I figured KCUMB would be unanimous.

What made you suggest Western Pomona? Its established and all, but I never really hear anything great about it (nor anything bad). I just figure its a solid school, while KCUMB is one of those schools that you generally go "well thats a really good school"

Western is in California

/thread

 

[megathunder]

I was accepted to the latter two. PM sent if you have any questions.

 

[DocEspana]

Western is in California

/thread

This is true. I use the same argument for Touro in NY. And Cali has better weather than NY ever could.

damn.

I agree. /thread.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

$100 say the kid is already accepted to KYCOM, neither of the other two, really wants to go to KY, will question anything we say that is critical of KYCOM and/or positive of the other two, and will eventually simply storm off and say its "all subjective anyway"

Hahaha. This seriously made me laugh out loud.

 

[VespaDO4life]

I actually did get accepted to all 3. Its basically a toss up between KCUMB and Western. I know both schools are good. I'm more concerned with the area for my family. I have a young child and my wife is a school teacher.

 

[DrWily]

Western's in Pomona, which is the armpit of California... but it's close enough to Los Angeles and the Coast for a nice getaway once in a while. That being said, don't live in Pomona. Live 5-10 mins way from Pomona and there's generally good areas to live in.

Don't know jack about KCUMB.

Where you are from, and where you want to ultimately practice?

 

[Jnet389]

Why does KYCOM suck so bad? Just curious.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Why does KYCOM suck so bad? Just curious.

Middle of Nowhere.
Lowest Mcat score of any medical school in the nation (22-23), actually below the mean. Gpa of 3.2? Basically stats of a podiatry school.
Rotations from what I've read in PDFs are more like apprenticeships with doctors in the area as opposed to major hospitals with diverse populations and needs.
Match list: Never published.
First time Pass Rate on COMLEX-1: No where to be found; Dean said it was 93% to some, but I've got doubts.
Retention Rate: Not mentioned, rumored to be somewhat lower than average.

Either way, it's the lowest ranked DO school in the nation in almost every regard. If you've got a choice between this and any half decent DO school you'll probably be better off there.

 

[drgioiadds]

The weather. Both schools are good. In response to DocE.

 

[tkim]

cheapest school between kcumb and western

 

[Juice9]

Middle of Nowhere.
Lowest Mcat score of any medical school in the nation (22-23), actually below the mean. Gpa of 3.2? Basically stats of a podiatry school.
Rotations from what I've read in PDFs are more like apprenticeships with doctors in the area as opposed to major hospitals with diverse populations and needs.
Match list: Never published.
First time Pass Rate on COMLEX-1: No where to be found; Dean said it was 93% to some, but I've got doubts.
Retention Rate: Not mentioned, rumored to be somewhat lower than average.

Either way, it's the lowest ranked DO school in the nation in almost every regard. If you've got a choice between this and any half decent DO school you'll probably be better off there.

Low average MCAT doesn't necessarily mean the school is bad, my problem with it has to do with quality of the rotations, which may not be bad if you know you want to go into primary care but if you want to specialize it may produce some issues. First time pass rate is in the 60's. At a couple of my interviews i saw charts that showed a school with a 68% pass rate, but on this page someone said 65%

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=586991&page=3


OP, between Western and KCUMB for you I would vote western. KCUMB has a limited number of rotation sites in KC so it is more likely you'll have to move after 2 year, something to keep in mind when you consider your wife's ability to find a job

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Western is also pretty warm..

And idk, call me a bit pretentious.. but if you didn't break a 23 on the mcat I don't think you should be going to medical school.

 

[Juice9]

Western is also pretty warm..

And idk, call me a bit pretentious.. but if you didn't break a 23 on the mcat I don't think you should be going to medical school.

What did you get on the mcat

 

[dbizzy]

Western's in Pomona, which is the armpit of California... but it's close enough to Los Angeles and the Coast for a nice getaway once in a while. That being said, don't live in Pomona. Live 5-10 mins way from Pomona and there's generally good areas to live in.

You won't see Pomona on a on a postcard anytime soon, but most of the city, including where Western is situated, isn't that bad. Largely suburban, lower-middle class, Hispanic and White.

I completely agree with the housing suggestion though. Crime there is more about theft and vandalism than drive-bys and armed robberies. I wouldn't worry for my life roaming the streets as much I would about my car getting broken into at night. Live in Diamond Bar, Chino Hills or even a little further in Brea, which is in Orange County and much nicer.

This comes from years of experience living all over that area, including Pomona, Diamond Bar, OC, etc etc etc...

And idk, call me a bit pretentious.. but if you didn't break a 23 on the mcat I don't think you should be going to medical school.

I tend to agree with you wholeheartedly, almost down to those exact words.. For christ's sake, just retake...but that's a whole 'nother topic. *puts on flame-******ant suit*

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Low average MCAT doesn't necessarily mean the school is bad, my problem with it has to do with quality of the rotations, which may not be bad if you know you want to go into primary care but if you want to specialize it may produce some issues. First time pass rate is in the 60's. At a couple of my interviews i saw charts that showed a school with a 68% pass rate, but on this page someone said 65%

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=586991&page=3


OP, between Western and KCUMB for you I would vote western. KCUMB has a limited number of rotation sites in KC so it is more likely you'll have to move after 2 year, something to keep in mind when you consider your wife's ability to find a job

I am on my phone so I am not going to bold the proper section but I disagree with the last part. At my interview at KCUMB I asked if I could stay in KC for rotations and they said they have a lottery thing but you can appeal and since I have a family, it was a 99% chance I could stay in KC. I basically said that I don't want to move my whole family to KC and then forced away for the last two years, leaving them in a place they don't want to be and they said it wouldn't happen. FWIW.

 

[Juice9]

I am on my phone so I am not going to bold the proper section but I disagree with the last part. At my interview at KCUMB I asked if I could stay in KC for rotations and they said they have a lottery thing but you can appeal and since I have a family, it was a 99% chance I could stay in KC. I basically said that I don't want to move my whole family to KC and then forced away for the last two years, leaving them in a place they don't want to be and they said it wouldn't happen. FWIW.

Thanks for correcting me frky. I cancelled my interview there so never had the chance to ask about that. Maybe things have changed, but I remember reading somewhere either on the website or the info packet they sent me that the majority of their rotations werent in Kc. That is great that they seem to be accomodating to families.

 

[NurWollen]

Nah, give the OP some slack. He probably listed all three because those are the three objective choices he has due to where he has been accepted, not because he's unaware of the relative merits of each school...

Anyway, I think academically, Western and KCUMB are pretty much on par academically with one another.

If you're a Republican, go to Kansas City. If you're a Democrat, go to California.

 

[VespaDO4life]

Western is also pretty warm..

And idk, call me a bit pretentious.. but if you didn't break a 23 on the mcat I don't think you should be going to medical school.

Who said anything about getting a 23? 😕 I scored a 30 and took the test once (3.5 sgpa, 3.6 cgpa. 30 mcat 12 P 10 V 8 B, writing P). I applied to a lot of schools. I didn't want to retake because of the lower Bio score, so I applied very broadly. KYCOM was my first acceptance that's why I listed it and KCUMB was my second. After that I only chose to attend my Western interview. Anyway, thanks for all the input. I'm going to do a bit more research on the surrounding areas before I decide. I know I can't go wrong with either school so its going to come down to family issues like daycare etc...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Who said anything about getting a 23? 😕 I scored a 30 and took the test once (3.5 sgpa, 3.6 cgpa. 30 mcat 12 P 10 V 8 B, writing P). I applied to a lot of schools. I didn't want to retake because of the lower Bio score, so I applied very broadly. KYCOM was my first acceptance that's why I listed it and KCUMB was my second. After that I only chose to attend my Western interview. Anyway, thanks for all the input. I'm going to do a bit more research on the surrounding areas before I decide. I know I can't go wrong with either school so its going to come down to family issues like daycare etc...

I stated 23 because thats the average at KYCOM, and I was broadly talking about the population attending.

 

[drgioiadds]

Western is also pretty warm..

And idk, call me a bit pretentious.. but if you didn't break a 23 on the mcat I don't think you should be going to medical school.

I know someone who got accepted off a wait list with a 21 who is doing really well in his first year and he doesn't go to KYCOM. I only scored a 25 and don't think I'm going to have a problem next year. I've heard so much conflicting evidence about the efficacy of the exam. Some schools tell me the verbal score correlates to boards, others say the biology section. From my own experience with the DAT and NDBE 1 and 2, I'd say there is 0 correlation.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I know someone who got accepted off a wait list with a 21 who is doing really well in his first year and he doesn't go to KYCOM. I only scored a 25 and don't think I'm going to have a problem next year. I've heard so much conflicting evidence about the efficacy of the exam. Some schools tell me the verbal score correlates to boards, others say the biology section. From my own experience with the DAT and NDBE 1 and 2, I'd say there is 0 correlation.

There is an R =~.65 for the BS, R= .~5 for PS, R= .~4 to the USMLE step 1. I'd assume this is likewise for the COMLEX, since the material is similar. Point being is that statistically you have an insanely high chance of failing out or not passing the boards if you're scoring that low on the mcat as medical school is a standardized test heavy endeavor.

 

[Juice9]

There is an R =~.65 for the BS, R= .~5 for PS, R= .~4 to the USMLE step 1. I'd assume this is likewise for the COMLEX, since the material is similar. Point being is that statistically you have an insanely high chance of failing out or not passing the boards if you're scoring that low on the mcat as medical school is a standardized test heavy endeavor.

Please present to me the source of this information. While I admit that somebody who struggled on the mcat will likely have more difficulty on the boards (or any standardized test for that matter) than someone who scored well, your inference that the MCAT has any strength at predicting the quality of a physician someone will become highlights your true ignorance

 

[tkim]

Please present to me the source of this information. While I admit that somebody who struggled on the mcat will likely have more difficulty on the boards (or any standardized test for that matter) than someone who scored well, your inference that the MCAT has any strength at predicting the quality of a physician someone will become highlights your true ignorance

I see no such inference. Point it out.

 

[DocEspana]

Please present to me the source of this information. While I admit that somebody who struggled on the mcat will likely have more difficulty on the boards (or any standardized test for that matter) than someone who scored well, your inference that the MCAT has any strength at predicting the quality of a physician someone will become highlights your true ignorance

The stats you have a problem with have actually been studied before and show a decently strong corrolation of MCAT score and *PRE*-clinical performance.

What you are clinically capable of is another matter and, as said by the person directly before me, was not hypothesized about at all. In order to get to the clinical level you need to have some sort of success in the pre-clinical realm though.

 

[poopyhead]

Please present to me the source of this information. While I admit that somebody who struggled on the mcat will likely have more difficulty on the boards (or any standardized test for that matter) than someone who scored well, your inference that the MCAT has any strength at predicting the quality of a physician someone will become highlights your true ignorance

I know someone who got accepted off a wait list with a 21 who is doing really well in his first year and he doesn't go to KYCOM. I only scored a 25 and don't think I'm going to have a problem next year. I've heard so much conflicting evidence about the efficacy of the exam. Some schools tell me the verbal score correlates to boards, others say the biology section. From my own experience with the DAT and NDBE 1 and 2, I'd say there is 0 correlation.

The problem is in order to even become a physician in the first place, one has to pass many standardized exams.

GPA from various institutions is so highly variable due to grade inflation, competition, entrance difficulty, etc...that trying to do comparisons is difficult. Some medical schools do give GPA "boosts" to applicants from certain colleges, but even within the same college, different departments/professors have variable difficulty.

Logistically speaking, MCAT is still the best objective way to compare applicants. Every applicant knows (s)he has to take it. It's curved to all test takers. IMO, it predominately tests repetition of practice exams. Take as many practice exams under actual testing conditions as possible. Then, go over explanations for every single question. Even though MCAT claims to test "critical thinking," it's cursory at best compared to the critical thinking involved in designing experiments/projects in an academic research lab. Thus, the MCAT simply measures your drive and motivation (i.e. time and effort) to do well on it. On a side note, I do wonder how applicants with high GPAs who had to take so many high-pressure final exams couldn't handle the stress of taking the MCAT.

The average scaled score in 2010 was 25.0 with a standard deviation of 6.4. The chart below lists the scaled scores along with their percentiles for 82,004 test takers in 2010:

An MCAT score of 23 equates to 33.1–38.5 percentile. That means >50,000 test takers did better than people who scored a 23.

 

[NurWollen]

I know someone who got accepted off a wait list with a 21 who is doing really well in his first year and he doesn't go to KYCOM. I only scored a 25 and don't think I'm going to have a problem next year. I've heard so much conflicting evidence about the efficacy of the exam. Some schools tell me the verbal score correlates to boards, others say the biology section. From my own experience with the DAT and NDBE 1 and 2, I'd say there is 0 correlation.

You're a dentist... you could have gotten an 18K on the MCAT and IMO you'd be more qualified than most other people. If you can get through dental school, I'm pretty sure you can get through med school, regardless of your MCAT score.

 

[NurWollen]

Western is also pretty warm..

And idk, call me a bit pretentious.. but if you didn't break a 23 on the mcat I don't think you should be going to medical school.

Keep in mind that the MCAT essentially hasn't change in 20 years... other than switching to the CBT... 15 years ago average MCAT of accepted applicants to DO schools or MD schools was a lot lower than it is today. Still above a 23, but I am sure many, many more people back then got in with a 23... and then passed their boards and today are fine physicians.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Keep in mind that the MCAT essentially hasn't change in 20 years... other than switching to the CBT... 15 years ago average MCAT of accepted applicants to DO schools or MD schools was a lot lower than it is today. Still above a 23, but I am sure many, many more people back then got in with a 23... and then passed their boards and today are fine physicians.

The score needed to pass the USMLE or COMLEX was also lower back then. There's actually a system I believe which uses the prior years scores to determine the minimum passing grade/number on the comlex/usmle for this year.

 

[drgioiadds]

You're a dentist... you could have gotten an 18K on the MCAT and IMO you'd be more qualified than most other people. If you can get through dental school, I'm pretty sure you can get through med school, regardless of your MCAT score.

Thanks but a few schools told me to retake to try and get the score to a 26-27. It wasn't possible for me as I work 40 hours a week and I really needed a review course, but didn't have the time. I'm just grateful I have a chance next year at my number one choice. I took my prereqs in 1994 and I studied 2 months for the MCAT at work, so I was ok with scoring the mean.

 

[dbizzy]

Well this thread sure has gone off course

 

[brownco]

FWIW at my interview at KCUMB, I was told ~50% of the rotations are within KC, and that the vast majority of students get their first choice of rotation sites. They handed out a list of rotation sites, which are located all over the country basically, so if you want to get out of KC after 2 years, it's highly likely you'd be able to. Because they accept students from all over the country, the desired rotations are all over the country, so competition for the KC slots aren't what you'd expect.

 

[FuturePharm21]

I don't know why everyone loves bashing KYCOM....in the end students from either school will have the same DO degree and the name of the school won't matter, ultimately it depends on you and how much effort you put into it...your board exam scores and letters of rec from rotations are what matter

Yes, KCUMB or Western have higher MCAT averages and better reputations, but in the end, the degree is the same. I would recommend you go to the school that you think you will be happy at and will give you the medical education you need to be a great doctor...location, family, tuition are all factors

 

[DrWily]

I don't know why everyone loves bashing KYCOM....in the end students from either school will have the same DO degree and the name of the school won't matter, ultimately it depends on you and how much effort you put into it...your board exam scores and letters of rec from rotations are what matter

Yes, KCUMB or Western have higher MCAT averages and better reputations, but in the end, the degree is the same. I would recommend you go to the school that you think you will be happy at and will give you the medical education you need to be a great doctor...location, family, tuition are all factors

^^ This coming from the guy who scrambled to post on a lot of individual school threads if it's too late to send in a secondary after getting acceptance at KYCOM

It's not that you won't be a D.O. if you go to KYCOM, but their first-time pass rate for COMLEX is absolute trash. This obviously speaks ill of the curriculum at KYCOM. You can't sit here and tell me that 30% of the students didn't pass because they didn't work hard enough. Something's obviously missing.

 

[NurWollen]

The score needed to pass the USMLE or COMLEX was also lower back then. There's actually a system I believe which uses the prior years scores to determine the minimum passing grade/number on the comlex/usmle for this year.

No kidding... I didn't know that. Pretty brutal.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

^^ This coming from the guy who scrambled to post on a lot of individual school threads if it's too late to send in a secondary after getting acceptance at KYCOM

It's not that you won't be a D.O. if you go to KYCOM, but their first-time pass rate for COMLEX is absolute trash. This obviously speaks ill of the curriculum at KYCOM. You can't sit here and tell me that 30% of the students didn't pass because they didn't work hard enough. Something's obviously missing.

I'm divided personally. I doubt it's that they are teaching the material or not providing sufficient board prep, but rather that some people simply don't have the aptitude to pass the boards.
Well... there I go being pretentious again..

 

[DrWily]

I'm divided personally. I doubt it's that they are teaching the material or not providing sufficient board prep, but rather that some people simply don't have the aptitude to pass the boards.
Well... there I go being pretentious again..

You may be right.

 

[DocEspana]

I'm divided personally. I doubt it's that they are teaching the material or not providing sufficient board prep, but rather that some people simply don't have the aptitude to pass the boards.
Well... there I go being pretentious again..

probably a 60-40 split of aptitude vs board prep. An amazing student can come out of anywhere, and everyone believes they are the amazing student. But someone (most people) have to be the average and plenty (half infact) have to be below average. Its not a good school to be in that bottom 50%.