Least Competitive Programs?

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jazz27

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Sorry if this seems like an odd question, but what are the least competitive programs in NY, Chicago, and Pennsylvania?
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jazz27 said:
Sorry if this seems like an odd question, but what are the least competitive programs in NY, Chicago, and Pennsylvania?
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I'm afraid this is a bit of a difficult question to answer. ALL of the programs in these areas filled this year. If I were trying to pick "less competitive" programs I would probably knock the "Ivory Tower" programs in these areas off. Northwestern is apparently proud of the number of AOA members in its EM training program. Columbia has a reputation for being stingy with interview invites unless you have a proper educational pedigree. St. Luke's-Roosevelt in NYC seems to be a favorite amongst applicants and highly ranked by many come match day, but they don't seem to base interview invites or decisions solely on numbers.

Other people probably know more, but thought I'd put in what I've heard over the years on this board (more experienced peeps - feel free to correct me!).
 
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SoCuteMD said:
St. Luke's-Roosevelt in NYC seems to be a favorite amongst applicants and highly ranked by many come match day, but they don't seem to base interview invites or decisions solely on numbers.
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I think a lot of programs fall under this category. If you know you want to live in NY, PA, or IL I would just apply to all the programs there that you like regardless of how competitive you perceive yourself. I'm sure many of us who went through the match were surprised at some of the places we got interviews and where we were rejected. Besides, a good letter(s) from an away rotation in any of these areas might make you more competitive than you think.

Sorry for not answering your question, its kind of hard to tell.
 
StudentDoc327 said:
I think a lot of programs fall under this category. If you know you want to live in NY, PA, or IL I would just apply to all the programs there that you like regardless of how competitive you perceive yourself. I'm sure many of us who went through the match were surprised at some of the places we got interviews and where we were rejected. Besides, a good letter(s) from an away rotation in any of these areas might make you more competitive than you think.

Sorry for not answering your question, its kind of hard to tell.
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Thanks for trying, though.
I want to do an away rotation at one of these areas. I'm a CA med student and I don't think I have a shot at the Cali programs. My PD told me to do away rotations in large urban areas where I realistically have a shot at. So I don't want to take risks by doing an away at a popular place. I just want to do EM and I am less concerned with the name of the program. I realize that all programs are competitive, but surely there must be those that are less competive, even slightly, than others?
 
Several New York programs tend to be less selective in the applicants they choose. Regardless of what program, it's still going to be competitive.
 
Is there a "T" Pat?
 
For all the Fatty Mcfatty Pants people out there, I will have you know that I did do a search for what I was looking for but did not find the information I needed. There were hardly any programs listed in the areas I was looking for.
 
they do exist. but i'm sorry, no one here is going to tell you
 
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EM is a small world. No burning bridges here.

One thing you can do, is to go to emramatch.org, and see which programs have a significant portion of DOs and FMGs/IMGs.

That is one way that some people less competitive programs.

Q
 
Ide like to solve the puzzle

FATTY OF FATTY RANTS?:scared:
 
No reason to rotate at a 'less competitive' program. Pick a program and work your tail off. get a good recommendation. If you want to be in nyc, all the pds now each other and if you do well, it will carry you far in nyc.

No one is going to awnser this question directly. As noted, it burns bridges. and NYC is very small world.
 
roja said:
No reason to rotate at a 'less competitive' program. Pick a program and work your tail off. get a good recommendation. If you want to be in nyc, all the pds now each other and if you do well, it will carry you far in nyc.

No one is going to awnser this question directly. As noted, it burns bridges. and NYC is very small world.
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First, I apologize to all those who did not like my question. I definitely wouldn't want any bridges to be burned.

I understand your suggestion above, but I do know a few people who received honors at what many PDs consider top tier programs on the west coast but still failed to match this year. Hence, my reason for seeking the less competitive programs.
 
I don't understand why someone would want to set themselves up for something subpar. Every program is competitive by definition....there are more people applying than there are spots. Don't worry about everyone else. Find a program you like, rotate there, bust your a$$, and go get it. You do your job and you'll stick somewhere in due time.
 
The In-N-Out EM residency in Vegas is the most competitive of all residencies. Every other residency is less competitive by definition. You can try to get info from the PD but he'll likely just roundhouse kick you into next week for being insolent enough to ask.
 
deuist said:
I understand that the USMLE and COMLEX scores at McDonald's are down again this year.
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They just can't compete with In-N-Out. Although word on the street is that 5 Guys is about to start an EM residency. In a few years there could be a serious east coast - west coast rivalry.
 
jazz27 said:
I do know a few people who received honors at what many PDs consider top tier programs on the west coast but still failed to match this year.
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I heard a PD from an NYC program speak. He said every year there are people that rotate at his program who meet the standard for "Honors" on the rotation, so that's the grade they get. However, some of these same people don't click well with the residents or have problems in their applications (low step I scores, etc) and thus do not merit receiving an interview. His theory is anyone can work hard for a month, it is the totality of the application that matters when making interview cuts.
 
Dakota said:
They just can't compete with In-N-Out. Although word on the street is that 5 Guys is about to start an EM residency. In a few years there could be a serious east coast - west coast rivalry.
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I heard that 5 Guys was shut down before it got off the ground by 2 dudes.
 
DrQuinn said:
EM is a small world. No burning bridges here.

One thing you can do, is to go to emramatch.org, and see which programs have a significant portion of DOs and FMGs/IMGs.

That is one way that some people less competitive programs.

Q
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To the OP, this is very good advice. Aside from word of month, this is the best way to find out. I see why you would want to rotate at a less known program but apply to lots of programs (ones you think you have no chance at and more realistic ones). You just never know. Don't sell yourself too short. Also, when looking at programs to rotate, it might not be a bad idea to also rotate at ones that don't take a whole lot of students per month so you get more noticed (rotating with 4 other students is better than 20 other students). Lastly, don't just rotate at these programs because you have a chance at them. If you aren't going to be happy in one of these big urban centers or that sort of environment is not your thing, there are tons of other places in between cali and the large urban centers on the east coast. Just because your dude told you to look at large urban centers doesn't mean that you won't get in anywhere else. That said, getting an LOR in a large uban center will probably mean more to all the programs in that city, so not a bad idea if you actually like these cities. Good luck.
 
Shooting for less competitive residencies is much like hitting on a fat chick at a bar because you think you have a better shot to hook up. Be realistic, but go for programs where you think you'd like to do your residency. That's my plan :D
 
docB said:
The In-N-Out EM residency in Vegas is the most competitive of all residencies. Every other residency is less competitive by definition. You can try to get info from the PD but he'll likely just roundhouse kick you into next week for being insolent enough to ask.
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In-N-Out...sin city...las vegas...How do I download the application?
 
Don't sell yourself short. Apply broadly. However, this doesn't mean you have to apply to every single program in those states (but you can). I'm an IMG but I still received interviews at well-known programs and I know of an IMG at a big-name program in NYC. And there were lesser-known programs that didn't bother to interview me.

My advice is to first pick out areas that you want to live. Pennsylvania is a big place, Philadelphia is very different from Danville. Brooklyn can be very different from Manhattan. You get the picture. If it doesn't matter where you want to be in those states/cities and you can afford to apply every program, then the rest of my advice may not apply.

The second part of my advice is to make three tiers of programs based on how competitive you think they are (this is often times purely based on your perception and the opinions you collect). Finally, pick out programs from each of your tiers that seem attractive to you. You will eventually find out that there are well-known places that you may not really like and lesser-known programs that you end up liking more than you thought you would.
 
Dakota said:
They just can't compete with In-N-Out. Although word on the street is that 5 Guys is about to start an EM residency. In a few years there could be a serious east coast - west coast rivalry.
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Cook-out just got provisional status for 3 years. They will also have the milkshake fellowship, fyi. Unfortunately, they are going outside the match.
 
It's a small program, but I hear Murder Burger is the place to go for trauma...
 
Less competitive programs are easy to find. Just look at their geography. In the spectrum of EM, all residencies are structured by RRC so curriculums are similar. You can put the best residency in the world in North Dakota, and it won't be as competitive. You can put the WORST residency in the world in NY or LA, and it will be one of the MOST competitive. Less competitive = less geographically desirable. That's the only universal rule of thumb I can think of.

By the way, if In n Out Burger Residency were in North Dakota, it would still be the most competitive. (not to confuse you)
 
Apollyon said:
Cook-out is SO "county". Steak and Shake is much more cush.
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Yeah, but I don't want to go through my whole residency relying on all of stake and shake's academia, only to find my self not knowing how to make a 1/2 pounder with cheese and a watermelon-oreo milkshake in the middle of the night when I'm out on my own in 3 three years at some small diner in Nowhereville, USA.

Will I learn a lot at Steak and Shake? Absolutely, but how much real world experience will I get? That's the real question. So, that's what I like about cook-out, while they may be a little country, at least I'll be able to handle any milkshake or hamburger emergencies on my own, without having to call in, say, a french fry specialist every time some jack-nut orders chili fries. I can make my own chili fries- with or without cheese... could you say that about Steak and Shake?
 
Of course, you want to have a well rounded skill set. However, if your milkshake's bringing too many boys to the yard, do you think your co workers will begin to talk? Careful what you wish for. EM is a very small community. So I hear.
 
EMT2RN2MD said:
Of course, you want to have a well rounded skill set. However, if your milkshake's bringing too many boys to the yard, do you think your co workers will begin to talk? Careful what you wish for. EM is a very small community. So I hear.
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True, and if I was at an academic facility, I could teach you, but I would have to charge.

Of course, I would probably only be reimbursed about 10% of what I billed...
 
EMT2RN2MD said:
Of course, you want to have a well rounded skill set. However, if your milkshake's bringing too many boys to the yard, do you think your co workers will begin to talk? Careful what you wish for. EM is a very small community. So I hear.
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Also of note, the RRC has now mandated that all EM residencies be held as equal opportunity employers meaning that the aboved mentioned milkshake must be available to all.
 
ditch doctor said:
Yeah, but I don't want to go through my whole residency relying on all of stake and shake's academia, only to find my self not knowing how to make a 1/2 pounder with cheese and a watermelon-oreo milkshake in the middle of the night when I'm out on my own in 3 three years at some small diner in Nowhereville, USA.

Will I learn a lot at Steak and Shake? Absolutely, but how much real world experience will I get? That's the real question. So, that's what I like about cook-out, while they may be a little country, at least I'll be able to handle any milkshake or hamburger emergencies on my own, without having to call in, say, a french fry specialist every time some jack-nut orders chili fries. I can make my own chili fries- with our without cheese... could you say that about Steak and Shake?
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It's about time Cook-Out got some respect around here.
 
So, there is this new residency opening in the upstate apparently. Got all the prerequisites, including a heli-pad (no joke). This place also sells more sweet tea (not the poster above, although that might make them more competitive) than any other restaurant in the US. I wonder how they will fare.
They have a dairy bar fellowship, but it isn't accredited yet, as it is too new.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
So, there is this new residency opening in the upstate apparently. Got all the prerequisites, including a heli-pad (no joke). This place also sells more sweet tea (not the poster above, although that might make them more competitive) than any other restaurant in the US. I wonder how they will fare.
They have a dairy bar fellowship, but it isn't accredited yet, as it is too new.
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I read the URL for the link as "BaconDriveIn.com" and I was about to get in my car and go up there.


mmmmm.........bacon.....
 
Dr.McNinja said:
So, there is this new residency opening in the upstate apparently. Got all the prerequisites, including a heli-pad (no joke). This place also sells more sweet tea (not the poster above, although that might make them more competitive) than any other restaurant in the US. I wonder how they will fare.
They have a dairy bar fellowship, but it isn't accredited yet, as it is too new.
Click to expand...

I'll fight you for a spot. :smuggrin:
 
Dr.McNinja said:
So, there is this new residency opening in the upstate apparently. Got all the prerequisites, including a heli-pad (no joke). This place also sells more sweet tea (not the poster above, although that might make them more competitive) than any other restaurant in the US. I wonder how they will fare.
They have a dairy bar fellowship, but it isn't accredited yet, as it is too new.
Click to expand...

Don't tell all of the sweet tea making programs in Georgia.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
So, there is this new residency opening in the upstate apparently. Got all the prerequisites, including a heli-pad (no joke). This place also sells more sweet tea (not the poster above, although that might make them more competitive) than any other restaurant in the US. I wonder how they will fare.
They have a dairy bar fellowship, but it isn't accredited yet, as it is too new.
Click to expand...

HAHAHA Have you been to the beacon yet?!? You better know what you want before you walk through the door. It's kinda like the soup nazi with a lot of yelling. And I believe the ONLY thing you can get to drink is sweet tea.
Definitely an experience...I blame the beacon for my added 15 pounds, so beware.
Enjoy,
streetdoc
 
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