LECOM 2023

[CutsWithFury]

The beatings will continue until morale improves. I feel like the Podiatry Gods are punishing us for our SDN sins.

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[619]

Class starts Aug 2023!!!

That's quick. I was thinking it will take a few more years to get things rolling after approval. LECOM ain't playing. They are heading straight to the finals with the Texas school without even playing qualifiers. Let's make a bet that another pod school will open up before the next world cup?

Go #TeamUSA

 

[deleted1093615]

Does anyone know what their class size will be?

 

[619]

Knowing LECOM, it's gonna be HUGEEEEE

 

[Feli]

Does anyone know what their class size will be?

As many as are "qualified" to attend an "accredited school"? 🙂

 

[Pronation]

The residency shortage in 4 years is going to be epic. I need to open up my podiatry associate mill asap. Start new residency grad suckers at 70k and pod school graduate suckers that couldn’t find a residency spot as “preceptors” for 35k to help run the nail farm.

 

[heybrother]

You can't stop podiatry from approving new schools. All we can do is share our associate salaries and try to show potential applicants the truth. Consider the following - imagine 2 new schools and all the schools together only matriculate 300. How amazing would that be.

Share your debt.
Share your stories of pitiful residencies you visited.
Share your job offers.

I once visited a residency where a hospital employed podiatrist who completed a VA residency told a patient with a hammertoe that they needed to be referred to an orthopedist.

My co-residents were $280K in debt when I was a first year. Podiatry school is like $40K more expensive since then.

 

[deleted1138023]

This is just pathetic at this point. No one cares enough to do anything about it. Why couldn’t temple or kent lobby hard against this? Guessing it takes applicants away from those schools

 

[CutsWithFury]

This is just pathetic at this point. No one cares enough to do anything about it. Why couldn’t temple or kent lobby hard against this? Guessing it takes applicants away from those schools

Kent and Temple will get their students. They will just give acceptances to people on the street. They will somehow figure out how to fill those seats.

 

[deleted1138023]

Kent and Temple will get their students. They will just give acceptances to people on the street. They will somehow figure out how to fill those seats.

Lecom will fill it easy like other DO associated schools. Just give fliers to the med school rejects

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Kent and Temple will get their students. They will just give acceptances to people on the street. They will somehow figure out how to fill those seats.

Don’t forget Barry and nycpm.

I mean really none of the schools are very selective. It’s funny to pretend DMU and Scholl are the Harvard and Princeton of podiatry though I get it.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Lecom will fill it easy like other DO associated schools. Just give fliers to the med school rejects

LECOM has a masters program that med school hopefuls try to use to get into DO school. If they fail at that they can become podiatrists instead and enjoy being a doctor who realistically can only make 75-100k first year after residency.

 

[icebreaker32]

The beatings will continue until morale improves. I feel like the Podiatry Gods are punishing us for our SDN sins.

View attachment 362715

On behalf of the Board of Directors, of SDN Truth Tellers, a forum member remarked "As the 11th school of podiatric medicine in the United States, LECOM School of Podiatric Medicine will help the profession to meet the unmet demand for podiatric nursing home and assisted living toenail care and will contribute to the ongoing growth of Health Drive. No toenail should ever be trimmed by a CNA. The addition of LECOM will also help to simultaneously lower podiatric associate pay, residency availability and quality while spurring the growth of a new breed of double fellowship trained podiatrists. The new college will accept anyone that can obtain federal loans and will help to lower admission standards at the 11 schools. We welcome the LECOM School of Podiatric Medicine to SDN.

 

[Feli]

The residency shortage in 4 years is going to be epic. I need to open up my podiatry associate mill asap. Start new residency grad suckers at 70k and pod school graduate suckers that couldn’t find a residency spot as “preceptors” for 35k to help run the nail farm.

Look on the bright side: the number of practicing podiatrists will surpass number of orthopedists in the USA within a decade... or even less.

And sure, that makes no sense whatsoever in terms of public need or common sense or income for each DPM or the fact of churning out specialists for foot/ankle that's 90% MSK in higher number versus doc/surgeons for the whole body MSK, but logic doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that the avg podiatrist training level and income will regress. I'm sure surpassing orthos in sheer number played into the decision for approving and express-approving these new schools without quality residencies to back them up? We should try to outnumber chiros next? 🙁

 

[heybrother]

So - are the LECOM people going to even pretend that they will be opening new residencies?

 

[CutsWithFury]

So - are the LECOM people going to even pretend that they will be opening new residencies?

They won’t even try this time around. Neither will Lee Rogers awful Texas school. They are just going to crush this profession into oblivion. No remorse either. We are just going to sit back and take it.

 

[icebreaker32]

They won’t even try this time around. Neither will Lee Rogers awful Texas school. They are just going to crush this profession into oblivion. No remorse either. We are just going to sit back and take it.

Nope….they can just take the easy way out and due to the current reduction in enrollment spin it that they are doing good deeds by saving the existing bottom of the barrel residencies (that should be shutdown) from going unfilled instead of actually adding more quality residencies.

 

[de Ribas]

Does anyone know what their class size will be?

500-600. They are so cheap, all 600 applicants will go there.

 

[de Ribas]

LECOM has a masters program that med school hopefuls try to use to get into DO school. If they fail at that they can become podiatrists instead and enjoy being a doctor who realistically can only make 75-100k first year after residency.

Exactly. LECOM is thinking to have no waste byproducts. They will recycle ♻️ their master students who didn't get into their DO or other DO programs into Podiatry class. Maybe they will have "guarantee" admission for master students. Basically, make master students feel like they didn't lose anything by not getting into DO school. They will still become "doctors" by going into Podiatry.

"The program "will help" the profession to meet the unmet demand for podiatry care". Lol lol lol

 

[bloxxeeey]

Exactly. LECOM is thinking to have no waste byproducts. They will recycle ♻️ their master students who didn't get into their DO or other DO programs into Podiatry class. Maybe they will have "guarantee" admission for master students. Basically, make master students feel like they didn't lose anything by not getting into DO school. They will still become "doctors" by going into Podiatry.

"The program "will help" the profession to meet the unmet demand for podiatry care". Lol lol lol

Plus they’ll make 50-100k in the masters class. Average podiatry loans will be 400-500k for a 70k a year job, which might be a good offer in the future.

 

[air bud]

Don’t forget Barry and nycpm.

I mean really none of the schools are very selective. It’s funny to pretend DMU and Scholl are the Harvard and Princeton of podiatry though I get it.

Harvard is the Stansbury of the East

 

[air bud]

They won’t even try this time around. Neither will Lee Rogers awful Texas school. They are just going to crush this profession into oblivion. No remorse either. We are just going to sit back and take it.

I do think the Texas school will create residencies. Probably not enough. But they will create some good ones for what they are trying to accomplish.

 

[air bud]

 

[air bud]

Mods I believe memes are allowed in other threads if on topic?

 

[Weirdy]

Mods I believe memes are allowed in other threads if on topic?

Try to keep it in the meme thread. Otherwise I may get it confused for an SDN ad

 

[thefootfixer]

The deceased overall salary across the board is actually horrifying. Those 80k entry level jobs can easily drop to 60k..

Imagine making 40-50k as a resident and then coming out as an attending and making 60k…

 

[bloxxeeey]

The deceased overall salary across the board is actually horrifying. Those 80k entry level jobs can easily drop to 60k..

Imagine making 40-50k as a resident and then coming out as an attending and making 60k…

60k is 45k take home, after loans it's more like 20k. But you'll only have the loans for what 20-30 years?

 

[PTPuser]

This field gives me chest pain

 

[wakaflocka88]

This field gives me chest pain

If you work hard and seek the advice of smart people here like I did, you will do fine. As @DYK343 said before, hang out with the smart kids that don’t complain. It works.

 

[DYK343]

If you work hard and seek the advice of smart people here like I did, you will do fine. As @DYK343 said before, hang out with the smart kids that don’t complain. It works.

Thats my father's words/advice. It served me well so far in life.

Though I just started a complaining thread in the pre-pod forum. Oops.

 

[CutsWithFury]

If you work hard and seek the advice of smart people here like I did, you will do fine. As @DYK343 said before, hang out with the smart kids that don’t complain. It works.

You’re optimistic because you have a hospital job. Take away your job tomorrow. Would be as optimistic?

No

 

[CutsWithFury]

This was an awesome reply that got deleted by the podmed Instagram page. This must be an SDN member.

 

[wakaflocka88]

You’re optimistic because you have a hospital job. Take away your job tomorrow. Would be as optimistic?

No

Hindsight is real but Cuts is right. The majority of us are speaking from the greener side. If I wasn’t where I’m at currently, I will change careers. We’ve all said this many times: instagram will tell you “podiatry is a guarantee path to surgery” but they don’t tell you it’s also an almost-guarantee path to a high chance of a poor ROI of your time spent. No one will offer or hand me a job on a silver platter like the demand is for ortho and other specialities.

 

[GreenHousePub]

I'm curious to see how it will affect the applicant pool. Will there be more people applying for these spots? Or will it just split the current applicant pool across the 13 schools.

 

[Boba Foot]

I do think the Texas school will create residencies. Probably not enough. But they will create some good ones for what they are trying to accomplish.

I have heard that UTSA is trying to expand to more resident slots, but they’re going to have to come up with more spots than that in TX.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

This is just pathetic at this point. No one cares enough to do anything about it. Why couldn’t temple or kent lobby hard against this? Guessing it takes applicants away from those schools

It’s not about lobbying against it. CPME can’t consider anti-competition. They can only consider whether an applicant school meets the standards.

Good or bad, in light of the current application numbers, if they meet the standards they must be accredited.

 

[wakaflocka88]

It’s not about lobbying against it. CPME can’t consider anti-competition. They can only consider whether an applicant school meets the standards.

Good or bad, in light of the current application numbers, if they meet the standards they must be accredited.

So……none of our boards or governing bodies are voicing any opinion on this despite the glaring red flags of adding more unnecessary graduates? I can see how more students can benefit ABPM and ABFAS - more memberships but we have to look past the money at some point……right?

 

[DYK343]

At one point there was a moratorium issued so no further schools could be opened after western opened. Not sure what happened there....

 

[icebreaker32]

I'm curious to see how it will affect the applicant pool. Will there be more people applying for these spots? Or will it just split the current applicant pool across the 13 schools.

There will obviously be some local increase of a few applicants with each school. Maybe LECOM can recycle some rejected DO students. Texas is a big state and will draw some Texas students, that I believe they give priority to.

In many ways it does not matter how many schools there are. Total enrollment is what matters. It is currently on a downward trend, but if all schools could fill all their seats it would be brutal in the residency and job market. The job market is already not great.

If the new schools offer a better product, a better price or a better location then as sad as it is to say then hopefully another couple of schools close down.

Opening a school and saying it is to meet unmet demand goes beyond being PC for the job the person has......it is a lie. One can hope their will be increased demand in the future which has unfortunately never been true due to diabetes and aging population to any significant extent, but at least this statement would have been up for debate and not a bold lie.

There are only so many good residencies and jobs and there will never be enough of a supply of those those 2 things in this profession. It is the availability and pay for mediocre and bad jobs and residencies that fluctuate based on total enrollment. Demand only increases at a snail's pace for this profession no matter what the leaders say. That is why we should be limiting entrance slots. When the numbers go down it is actually a good thing for the profession, but the leaders get angry.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Exactly. LECOM is thinking to have no waste byproducts. They will recycle ♻️ their master students who didn't get into their DO or other DO programs into Podiatry class. Maybe they will have "guarantee" admission for master students. Basically, make master students feel like they didn't lose anything by not getting into DO school. They will still become "doctors" by going into Podiatry.

"The program "will help" the profession to meet the unmet demand for podiatry care". Lol lol lol

This is exactly what happened in my master's

I also question what the quality of their residency is going to be. The current residencies affiliated with LECOM are awful and MD/DOs actively avoid it

 

[de Ribas]

The deceased overall salary across the board is actually horrifying. Those 80k entry level jobs can easily drop to 60k..

Imagine making 40-50k as a resident and then coming out as an attending and making 60k…

Opposite. Residents now make 60k at some areas 70k. Imagine getting out of residency and making 50k like many fellowships pay.

 

[619]

Only positive I can think of is if in the future there is a possibility of a DPM/DO dual degree then LECOM will be the one to make it happen. Then other schools affiliated with a medical school and follow suit. A hospitalist podiatrist managing all the diabetic inpatient and also doing surgery will help increase pay and demand for "hospitalist podiatrist'. The "hospitalist podiatrist" can work under an MD/DO but still be somehow independent. Just like PA/NP who work on the hospital floor side by side with MD/DO and help manage inpatients.

We already do this in residency when we primarily admit our patients and manage them with appropriate consults.

 

[Pronation]

Only positive I can think of is if in the future there is a possibility of a DPM/DO dual degree

I just don’t ever see this happening

 

[619]

To make it happen, have an optional 4 year residency programs with entire 1st year spent in strictly medicine rotation managing inpatients.

 

[de Ribas]

To make it happen, have an optional 4 year residency programs with entire 1st year spent in strictly medicine rotation managing inpatients.

What's the point? We just want to make things so complicated. Nobody knows exactly what podiatrists do. Let's make it even more confusing.

 

[de Ribas]

To make it happen, have an optional 4 year residency programs with entire 1st year spent in strictly medicine rotation managing inpatients.

What's the point? We just want to make things so complicated. Nobody knows exactly what podiatrists do. Let's make it even more

Only positive I can think of is if in the future there is a possibility of a DPM/DO dual degree then LECOM will be the one to make it happen. Then other schools affiliated with a medical school and follow suit. A hospitalist podiatrist managing all the diabetic inpatient and also doing surgery will help increase pay and demand for "hospitalist podiatrist'. The "hospitalist podiatrist" can work under an MD/DO but still be somehow independent. Just like PA/NP who work on the hospital floor side by side with MD/DO and help manage inpatients.

We already do this in residency when we primarily admit our patients and manage them with appropriate consults.

8 years of school and 4 years of residency to work under MD/DO? What?!?!? Just go and become MD/DO so you don't have to work under anyone. Why would there be a need in podiatry working as IM hospitalist? What podiatrist then be board certified by IM board or podiatry board?

 

[619]

What's the point? We just want to make things so complicated. Nobody knows exactly what podiatrists do. Let's make it even more confusing.

Point is to graduate hospitalist podiatrist that will management diabetic patient with foot infections. Imagine if every hospital decides to hire a dedicated hospitalist podiatrist to manage this inpatients. The demand for pods will sky rocket.

 

[619]

8 years of school and 4 years of residency to work under MD/DO? What?!?!? Just go and become MD/DO so you don't have to work under anyone. Why would there be a need in podiatry working as IM hospitalist? What podiatrist then be board certified by IM board or podiatry board?

We already have a podiatric medicine board right. Can just create a CAQ in IM lol

I will stop now. I think I am going down the rabbit hole here.

 

[de Ribas]

Point is to graduate hospitalist podiatrist that will management diabetic patient with foot infections. Imagine if every hospital decides to hire a dedicated hospitalist podiatrist to manage this inpatients. The demand for pods will sky rocket.

Ok, but why do we need to become DPM/DO or have an additional year of residency. Plus there are hospitals out there where podiatry is primary managing their pts. Nothing new. Other specialties can be primary without additional years of IM training. That's not necessary. All of podiatry programs have their residents spend 10-12 months on other rotations acting like interns or TY residents.

 

[Pronation]

Point is to graduate hospitalist podiatrist that will management diabetic patient with foot infections. Imagine if every hospital decides to hire a dedicated hospitalist podiatrist to manage this inpatients. The demand for pods will sky rocket.

Yea, no…