LECOM Independent Study

[MiesVanDerMom]

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For those who are in the IS track at LECOM: exactly how much time are you required on campus--how many days a week and for how many hours? I know the first few months you're in class with everyone else, but beyond that? And how strictly do they enforce the requirement to live within 30 minutes of Erie? Thanks 🙂

 

[24IdaFire]

You have to be in class for anatomy, embro, and the first section of core. These classes finish the week of thanksgiving (this year anyways). After that ISP only has to attend OMM lectures and labs, and show up for exams. OMM is every Wednesday for about 2 hours. However, you never know when they might throw in a workshop or something so your not 100% free, but darn close.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

You have to be in class for anatomy, embro, and the first section of core. These classes finish the week of thanksgiving (this year anyways). After that ISP only has to attend OMM lectures and labs, and show up for exams. OMM is every Wednesday for about 2 hours. However, you never know when they might throw in a workshop or something so your not 100% free, but darn close.

Thanks so much!

 

[ChiDO]

This is a really attractive option. Where exactly is this school located (for the IS option)?

www.lecom.edu

LECOM - Erie, PA

 

[engineeredout]

Man you guys who would do ISP are a lot braver than me.

 

[Green912]

Former ISP'er. After the first 3 months you're at LECOM more than you would think, or like. A bunch of short courses that you have to attend, like CODA, OPEP, Ethics, ect, keep popping up.

As far as the 30min thing goes (may be a new rule), I lived in Ohio during my first two years but also had an apartment in Erie to stay at when needed.

 

[Slevin]

Current ISPer wish I had gone back to LDP when I had the chance. Probably going back next year after having to remediate a course which if I was in LDP I wouldn't have to.

This year our Micro/Immuno was split up but for LDP it wasn't meaning that if you you were in LDP and you did poorly in one exam but did really well on the second enough to bring that 60 to a 70 then you passed the class. But for ISP if you failed one exam with a 69% and passed the other with even a 72% you would still need to remediate that class. Same thing happened with Pharm. I and Pharm. II

Some of the professors are getting lazy and not reviewing the course packets for the classes and as such there was one exam where 16% of the questions had to be thrown out since they weren't covered in the packet for ISP but they were mentioned in LDP.

Allot of the objectives are really vague like describe the histology of the eye and they'll give you a range of pages 400-425. Where as in LDP they tell you specifically what you need to cover, so as an ISP student you'll spend 2 hours trying to pull out what is important from that lecture where as LDP will have it handed to them on a silver platter.

This semester we had one less week than LDP to cover both musculoskeletal system and neuroanatomy and on top of that we had a neuroanatomy quiz the day after our MSK system ended before anyone even opened their neuroanatomy packet.

We in ISP aren't asking for things to be easy but rather to be fair. So far this semester we have had our MSK final and OPP exam on the same day, LDP only had the OPP exam. We also have an H&P and Neuroanatomy exam on the same day, LDP does not. The student's in PCSP voted to divide their MSK system exam into 3 parts where we only had one exam to cover roughly 400+ pages but yet they have the same exact objectives as we do.

When ISP started I thought it was the best pathway ever, get up when I want, study when I want and take the exam. Now I hate it and I know of at least 7 out of 28 people who are strongly considering it because it's just too stressful. I know some people like ISP because they have their families here and that allows them to spend more time with them and a few others who like ISP just because it suits them, but ISP isn't for everyone. It sounds appealing and sexy but as of right now its more like here is a book teach yourself what you need to know and good luck on the exam.

If you can do it kudos to you but I'll advise any who want to go into ISP to STRONGLY reconsider it. Personally I think it has been my worst decision over the last two years. The incoming director of ISP says it will get better in the future but that depends on the cooperation of professors many of whom aren't willing to go out of their way to help about 10% of the class.

Don't get me wrong LECOM is a good school but the organization of the ISP pathway needs work.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I have a few tips for anyone in or trying to decide on ISP:
1. Get the Kaplan USMLE review books. They cover the high yield topics for each system, which if you know just what's in those books you can more than likely pass each module.
2. Get a copy of the USMLE DVDs, either bootlegged or they have a copy in the library. It's like having ur own professor telling you what are the pertinent points to know. I think it's just too hard sometimes to not be able to listen to certain subjects or have ur hand held a little bit.
3. This is very time consuming, but helps me greatly, especially for the clinical portions. Make flashcards.
4. Get the powerpoints, either by signing up for noteservice or downloading last years. This is especially helpful for micro.
5. There are a lot of completed modules floating around out there. They don't always 100% correlate with the current year objectives, but they are pretty close, which you can tweak. Get the module, print it out at Office Max with ur discount card and read through it 2-3 times.

ISP is not like I expected and I sometimes wondered what life would have been like had I stayed in lecture. Then I look at the LDP schedule and think there's no way I could have tolerated all that class. ISP gives you the core material you'll need to pass ur boards whereas LDP has a lot of extraneous fluff that the PhDs think you should know. ISP is also advantageous come board time, imo, because you can carve out more time to review during the semester. Looking back on the last two years, I wouldn't have chosen a different pathway.

 

[jonb12997]

I have a question... is the LBP mandatory class? becaue if it's not, why not just go to the classes you might think you'd need and then study the rest of it on your own?

 

[NJWxMan]

Attendance is mandatory.

 

[DC DOC]

This is why PBL is the way to go. You get a lot of freedom in choosing your schedule and you know exactly where the questions are coming from, your text book. Also the faculty is really great in making us feel like we matter to them and go out of their way in order to make sure we are treated fairly. I have really enjoyed it thus far.

 

[Slevin]

I have a few tips for anyone in or trying to decide on ISP:
1. Get the Kaplan USMLE review books. They cover the high yield topics for each system, which if you know just what's in those books you can more than likely pass each module.
2. Get a copy of the USMLE DVDs, either bootlegged or they have a copy in the library. It's like having ur own professor telling you what are the pertinent points to know. I think it's just too hard sometimes to not be able to listen to certain subjects or have ur hand held a little bit.
3. This is very time consuming, but helps me greatly, especially for the clinical portions. Make flashcards.
4. Get the powerpoints, either by signing up for noteservice or downloading last years. This is especially helpful for micro.
5. There are a lot of completed modules floating around out there. They don't always 100% correlate with the current year objectives, but they are pretty close, which you can tweak. Get the module, print it out at Office Max with ur discount card and read through it 2-3 times.

ISP is not like I expected and I sometimes wondered what life would have been like had I stayed in lecture. Then I look at the LDP schedule and think there's no way I could have tolerated all that class. ISP gives you the core material you'll need to pass ur boards whereas LDP has a lot of extraneous fluff that the PhDs think you should know. ISP is also advantageous come board time, imo, because you can carve out more time to review during the semester. Looking back on the last two years, I wouldn't have chosen a different pathway.

See the problem with your method shows that A) people in ISP should have to use material from outside the module. Thats not right, the module should be self contained and individuals should be able to pass the class without having to rely on outside source material to provide the answers that should be evident in the module's objectives. B) You shouldn't need the completed course modules form a previous year. The time alloted to answer the objectives should be sufficient to answer the objectives and actually study. Yes it is convenient to use answers that were given out previously but that's not the way it should have to be in order to pass.

Todays Neuroanatomy exam after talking with several other students who relied on just the objectives felt that they are either barely passing but more than likely failing the course.

PCSP students (closest pathway to ISP) on the other hand which did not have an overlap between neuro and MSK and had enough time to go to lecture found the exam not to bad. Sure there things not mentioned but overall a vast majority of them feel like they passed.

Now asking why once MSK was done with we didn't start going to lecture its because we were a week behind and most of us wanted to catch up to where they were rather than sit in class and be lost in the sauce. I don't think this is a failure on the part of the students to adequately prepare. When grades come out if there is more than the standard of 10-20% of students failing this last exam I lay that at the feet of the administration for not giving us the time and opportunity to actually succeed. I don't know how many people in ISP feel this way but it's more than a handful that feel like we aren't studying to learn we are studying to pass the exam.

When this semester started I bagged on my friend who jumped ship to go back to LDP, now I only wish I had been as smart as he had been. But this is just my feelings of ISP, there are a few who actually like it and feel that it works for them.

Buckeye4life, how many people who started ISP with you in the fall of 2007 are still in ISP currently and how many had failed at least one if not more classes so far? I'm also wondering if you had anyone who had to remediate the entire year.

Thanks

 

[Buckeye4life]

Slevin. They're just tips to help with your understanding or provide an alternate source if you don't like reading pages of textbooks (which I don't). You can still pass all the modules with the textbooks and module packets. Yes, there were times when I felt the scheduling was unfair and the setup wasn't advantageous for ISP, but I dealt with it and still managed to do well (many times without using outside resources. It took me a year and a half to complile those suggestions). I don't know how they've restructured the program for your class, and maybe you guys are getting the short end of the stick. As for people failing, there were a few people that I know that failed more than one module. These same people, however, I know either weren't putting in the amount of time they needed to pass or they, imo, weren't studying correctly. By this I mean, they would just read the text and expect to be able to pass with just a basic gist of assigned material. However, ISP, was not the only pathway to have failures. I hear about people failing systems in LDP all the time as well. I know of 1 ISP student who had to remediate first year, but there was something going on behind the scenes that caused him to be held back. But there were several LDP students that repeated as well. As for people who started and are no longer with us: 1 student switched to PCSP, 1 student switched early back to LDP, 1 girl failed out after anatomy, 3 students dropped out of school because they decided med school wasn't for them, and 1 student is in prison (don't ask).

 

[MedicineMan99]

As an ISPer, it is my opinion that ISP is still the best pathway. Sure, ISP is not the most organized at times but things get better every year. For instance, an above poster was complaining that they had a neruo quiz the day after MSK ended. Well, guess what, when I took MSK we had a neuro quiz scheduled a week before MSK even ended, in addition to having 12 hours of mandatory neruo lab (with quizzes) during MSK. I guess we complained so much that they finally changed it this year.

ISP gets out of a lot of the useless stuff (but certainly not all). These include many of the useless micro labs, physio labs, etc, etc. PCSPers get out of even more.

But yes, with ISP you will be on campus much more than you would think from the ISP description on the LECOM website.

 

[bkpa2med]

I think PBL is probably the best pathway. LDP, which I can speak of, is good in the sense that we do learn a lot and I mean much more than ISP.

ISP has only one perk going for it -- grade inflation which LDP has 0 of.

 

[Slevin]

I think PBL is probably the best pathway. LDP, which I can speak of, is good in the sense that we do learn a lot and I mean much more than ISP.

ISP has only one perk going for it -- grade inflation which LDP has 0 of.

I take issue with the whole grade inflation bit, I think that pertains more to PCSP than ISP.

This year the average on exams have been in the low 80's or mostly the mid to high 70's for averages on ISP exams. I've also heard that they don't let anyone in PBL fail an exam. but that's 2nd hand information.

LDP has a few professors tell them exactly what their question is going to be, unlike ISP which has to guess at what is going to be on the exam since we hardly have a chance to even meet with a professor to review the material prior to the exam.

But then again I'm of the belief that everyone who is satisfied with their pathway believes that their pathway is the best, however that is always up for debate on which pathway is the best. Ultimately it is the student (or prospective student) who must decide what will work best for them and then go from there. Each has it's positives and negatives.

 

[bkpa2med]

Possibly, but many people in ISP have plenty of sources. Pathology is one -- they have ALL of Raymonds TQs for every system. That's unfair -- totally the opposite for LDP.

 

[Buckeye4life]

Possibly, but many people in ISP have plenty of sources. Pathology is one -- they have ALL of Raymonds TQs for every system. That's unfair -- totally the opposite for LDP.

Hey, bkpa. You know you're my boy, but who on earth told you we have the test questions? There is a website where some people have claimed that some of the path questions seem very similar, but this can be the case if you use any board review book with pathology questions. If people have all of the path questions, then I have never seen them. I would say that comparing LDP notes to ISP objectives, LDP may get 20% more material per system, but we still get a ton of information to cover. We also have to be able to pull all that info out at once, whereas LDP gets it in slightly more manageable bites. Not trying to make this into who's pathway is best, but ISP, imo, has it the hardest. People that I've talked to that switched from ISP back to LDP always tell me that LDP is easier because you know exactly what is going to be required of you for each exam, whereas ISP has to play a bit of a guessing game as to what is the most important information. Either way, all pathways have to work extremely hard, but it seems like the PBL students are the least stressed.

 

[bkpa2med]

Dude -- email me and I'll send you the site. My close sources -- and you know who they are just study those questions. During Endocrine I saw maybe 3 of those questions on my exam -- not all. I know how you feel because I feel the same way too. In LDP the people who claim it is easier is because they have material for LDP. I see them reviewing all this stuff during class but nobody shares. I just find it hard to believe when people come out of an ISP exam feeling that they failed -- like BOMBED the exam and end up with an A.

 

[Slevin]

Dude -- email me and I'll send you the site. My close sources -- and you know who they are just study those questions. During Endocrine I saw maybe 3 of those questions on my exam -- not all. I know how you feel because I feel the same way too. In LDP the people who claim it is easier is because they have material for LDP. I see them reviewing all this stuff during class but nobody shares. I just find it hard to believe when people come out of an ISP exam feeling that they failed -- like BOMBED the exam and end up with an A.

Is this the site run by JL? That was taken down at the request of the LECOM administration a few weeks ago unless they found a way to get that back up

 

[bkpa2med]

No it's not run by JL.

 

[Slevin]

No it's not run by JL.

OK, then this is one I've not heard of yet