Less reputable med schools?

[Berkeleygrad]

So I have heard that there aren't any "bad" med schools and it doesn't really matter where you go as long as you do well on your boards. Is this true?

Are there med schools that are somewhat easy to get into and seen as less reputable? I'm sure someone will argue that all med schools accept only a handful of applicants. But honestly, this probably just means that many delusional unqualified applicants apply (people with bad GPAs/bad MCAT scores) and that self-selection doesn't play as large of a role as it should in weeding out applicants.

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[nitemagi]

Are there med schools that are somewhat easy to get into and seen as less reputable?

Yes.

Easier, not necessarily easy.

 

[AlexMorph]

Why must you pollute Allo with this? I'm sure you will find plenty of willing participants in Pre-Allo.

 

[RapplixGmed]

The schools that are least reputable are the ones that reject you without an interview.

In all seriousness, any MD school in the US will give you a solid education. I may be slightly wary of new programs that haven't graduated a class yet but even those are under close regulatory scrutiny and will probably turn out fine.

Most DO schools are ok too I think. I have heard that the clinical training varies widely among DO schools though so there are likely to be some lower tier and for profit DO schools that will give you a subpar education.

As for carribean schools, the clinical education varies widely as well. They also have high attrition rates and don't let everybody take the boards. I'm not familiar with them but only SGU, AUC, Ross, and Saba graduates are eligible for licence in all 50 states.

 

[Berkeleygrad]

The schools that are least reputable are the ones that reject you without an interview.

In all seriousness, any MD school in the US will give you a solid education. I may be slightly wary of new programs that haven't graduated a class yet but even those are under close regulatory scrutiny and will probably turn out fine.

Most DO schools are ok too I think. I have heard that the clinical training varies widely among DO schools though so there are likely to be some lower tier and for profit DO schools that will give you a subpar education.

As for carribean schools, the clinical education varies widely as well. They also have high attrition rates and don't let everybody take the boards. I'm not familiar with them but only SGU, AUC, Ross, and Saba graduates are eligible for licence in all 50 states.

So if you graduate from one of the "worst" American med schools, you are still pretty much guaranteed a good job?

 

[RapplixGmed]

So if you graduate from one of the "worst" American med schools, you are still pretty much guaranteed a good job?

You're not guaranteed anything. Think of the journey to becoming a fully licenced physician as climbing mount everest. The difference between the starting points (1st year), aka the "base camps", of the best MD school and the worst MD school in the US is maybe a morning's hike. Going to a great school will put you a little bit ahead but you still have to do the work of climbing the mountain and if you're sluggish, you fall behind more motivated students who started from lower base camps. By the time you graduate from med school, you are usually less than halfway up. During the climb, sometimes people fall off the ridges and are never seen again.

Once you reach the top and finish residency, you have a good chance of getting a reasonably well paying job somewhere in the country. Graduating from a US medical school guarantees you nothing except a good chance at getting a residency in the US.

 

[searun]

So if you graduate from one of the "worst" American med schools, you are still pretty much guaranteed a good job?

Your concept of "worst" is nonsensical in the context of American medical education. Every accredited med school meets rigorous standards, medical education in the US is pretty standardized, every school will provide you with great residency options if you excel and do well on Step 1 and Step 2. Some schools have more prestige and research opportunities - some will be a better fit for you than others - but there are no "bad" accredited med schools in the USA. And all of them have a very competitive admissions process, some more competitive than others.

 

[ProtossCarrier]

please don't tarnish my alma mater by asking stupid questions. Berkeleygrad

 

[Ok2Panic]

Why must you pollute Allo with this? I'm sure you will find plenty of willing participants in Pre-Allo.

 

[Berkeleygrad]

You're not guaranteed anything. Think of the journey to becoming a fully licenced physician as climbing mount everest. The difference between the starting points (1st year), aka the "base camps", of the best MD school and the worst MD school in the US is maybe a morning's hike. Going to a great school will put you a little bit ahead but you still have to do the work of climbing the mountain and if you're sluggish, you fall behind more motivated students who started from lower base camps. By the time you graduate from med school, you are usually less than halfway up. During the climb, sometimes people fall off the ridges and are never seen again.

Once you reach the top and finish residency, you have a good chance of getting a reasonably well paying job somewhere in the country. Graduating from a US medical school guarantees you nothing except a good chance at getting a residency in the US.

Informative. Thanks for the response!

 

[Berkeleygrad]

Your concept of "worst" is nonsensical in the context of American medical education. Every accredited med school meets rigorous standards, medical education in the US is pretty standardized, every school will provide you with great residency options if you excel and do well on Step 1 and Step 2. Some schools have more prestige and research opportunities - some will be a better fit for you than others - but there are no "bad" accredited med schools in the USA. And all of them have a very competitive admissions process, some more competitive than others.

I guess it's different for the med profession then. I ask because I know people who scored admissions at certain med schools with a 28/29 on the MCAT, and many people have told me that a score is considered good only if it is 31+, so I assumed that those med schools were "less reputable."

 

[akwizeguy]

I guess it's different for the med profession then. I ask because I know people who scored admissions at certain med schools with a 28/29 on the MCAT, and many people have told me that a score is considered good only if it is 31+, so I assumed that those med schools were "less reputable."

You do understand that the application consists of other information as well right?

 

[Berkeleygrad]

You do understand that the application consists of other information as well right?

Yes, I realize ECs matter more than for other grad school admissions and the GPA is similarly important for admissions as other grad programs. However, the averages for these schools are below 31 as well (30), and many people keep telling me that only 31+ is considered a good score. (Someone I know at JHU compared scoring a 31 on the MCAT to getting a 1400 on the SAT?) I'm new to the admissions process and am merely trying to see what's considered "good" in the field. Other industries, for example, are very prestige-obsessed and care about your degree granting institution a lot.

 

[adaptation1]

i beg you. on my knees. please take your dribble and nonsense elsewhere. i have the bad habit, perverted masochism if you will, to click threads that infuriate and agitate.

Yes, I realize ECs matter more than for other grad school admissions and the GPA is similarly important for admissions as other grad programs. However, the averages for these schools are below 31 as well (30), and many people keep telling me that only 31+ is considered a good score. (Someone I know at JHU compared scoring a 31 on the MCAT to getting a 1400 on the SAT?) I'm new to the admissions process and am merely trying to see what's considered "good" in the field. Other industries, for example, are very prestige-obsessed and care about your degree granting institution a lot.

 

[medking]

please don't tarnish my alma mater by asking stupid questions. Berkeleygrad

I'm glad I chose not to go to Cal

 

[AlexMorph]

Yes, I realize ECs matter more than for other grad school admissions and the GPA is similarly important for admissions as other grad programs. However, the averages for these schools are below 31 as well (30), and many people keep telling me that only 31+ is considered a good score. (Someone I know at JHU compared scoring a 31 on the MCAT to getting a 1400 on the SAT?) I'm new to the admissions process and am merely trying to see what's considered "good" in the field. Other industries, for example, are very prestige-obsessed and care about your degree granting institution a lot.

If you are just starting out the process, please post your questions in Pre-Allo. You will find people there who can help you with your ... inquires.

 

[Berkeleygrad]

i beg you. on my knees. please take your dribble and nonsense elsewhere. i have the bad habit, perverted masochism if you will, to click threads that infuriate and agitate.

Why does it infuriate you? Did you get a 29/28?

 

[MCAT guy]

Go away B grad. You have a long way to go.

Also, your attitude sucks.

 

[username456789]

I, for one, am shocked that BG hasn't yet found a way to include what he scored on the LSAT in this thread yet.

 

[sanityonleave]

I, for one, am shocked that BG hasn't yet found a way to include what he scored on the LSAT in this thread yet.

In fairness, he did include it in the topic of the only other thread he posted, and for those of us who have enough perverse curiosity to search his posting history we could easily find it.

Please go back under your bridge, OP. And enjoy the banstick that should be flying your way soon.

Pro tip: if you're ever out trying to meet a girl in a bar, neither your undergrad nor your LSAT score are going to get you laid.

 

[ArcGurren]

Your concept of "worst" is nonsensical in the context of American medical education. Every accredited med school meets rigorous standards, medical education in the US is pretty standardized, every school will provide you with great residency options if you excel and do well on Step 1 and Step 2. Some schools have more prestige and research opportunities - some will be a better fit for you than others - but there are no "bad" accredited med schools in the USA. And all of them have a very competitive admissions process, some more competitive than others.

This. Most of the "competitive" medical schools are the ones that have more money. I'm sure they do a great job teaching and all but for f*** sake the education you get at all of them is almost always the same and relies on pretty high standards from everyone. Case in point my school does not get a whole lot of money... but we still somehow manage to get everyone matching at the end of 4th year despite our being "lower" on the ladder... This year we had multiple people match in plastics, ortho, derm, anesthesia, etc. at some very reputable places.

Also fun fact to the OP - nobody cares what you got on your MCAT

 

[Berkeleygrad]

This. Most of the "competitive" medical schools are the ones that have more money. I'm sure they do a great job teaching and all but for f*** sake the education you get at all of them is almost always the same and relies on pretty high standards from everyone. Case in point my school does not get a whole lot of money... but we still somehow manage to get everyone matching at the end of 4th year despite our being "lower" on the ladder... This year we had multiple people match in plastics, ortho, derm, anesthesia, etc. at some very reputable places.

Thanks for the only other legitimate response in the thread.

I guess I am surprised because pretty much all other professions are very institution-obsessed (PhDs, MBAs, JDs). I was just curious to see if med was the same way. Thanks for the insight.

Fwiw, I'm not a guy and I am not looking to get laid as I am engaged. I don't get why some people find this thread offensive. Did I hurt your egos? All of the information I previously gathered about what constitutes a good MCAT score I learned from friends who are currently in medical school.

 

[WellWornLad]

I don't get why some people find this thread offensive. Did I hurt your egos? All of the information I previously gathered about what constitutes a good MCAT score I learned from friends who are currently in medical school.

It's because your question is ridiculous in a way that is hard to describe before you've experienced medical school and medicine. No one's upset, they just want to slap you because you remind them of how silly they used to be when they were a pre-med.

 

[AlexMorph]

It's because your question is ridiculous in a way that is hard to describe before you've experienced medical school and medicine. No one's upset, they just want to slap you because you remind them of how silly they used to be when they were a pre-med.

And for bringing this non-sense to the Allo board!

 

[betsywetsy]

.

 

[ArcGurren]

Thanks for the only other legitimate response in the thread.

I guess I am surprised because pretty much all other professions are very institution-obsessed (PhDs, MBAs, JDs). I was just curious to see if med was the same way. Thanks for the insight.

Fwiw, I'm not a guy and I am not looking to get laid as I am engaged. I don't get why some people find this thread offensive. Did I hurt your egos? All of the information I previously gathered about what constitutes a good MCAT score I learned from friends who are currently in medical school.

Thanks, but I rather agree with a lot of the other people, this is just a ridiculous line of thought... when I was premed I also gave plenty of thought to "oh if I don't get into a GOOD medical school then I'll not get a good residency!!11one1!!" but then I got into medical school, and stopped giving a sh!! about it. The same will happen to you once you're in.

 

[officedepot]

OP I didn't really read the whole the thread but take it you have upset people.

Let's put it this way: yes, it makes a difference where you go to medical school in the sense that some have better reputations than others. This will make it easier for you to get better residencies. That is fact. NOT all medical schools are the same. However, all medical schools will give you a good enough education to learn what you need know to be a good doc. Also you can still get good residency spots by going to less reputable schools (not highly ranked NIH funding wise). Usually the schools with higher reputations want better scores because more people are applying there. But your scores are not the only thing that matters.

Also residency programs do not just look at board scores. Many things matter such as their opinion of the quality of education a school provides, their experience with past residents from your med school, you grades in that school, your research experience, volunteer experience, etc. Reputation of the school is another factor (funding rank) and is measured by the match process. If you look at the "harder" residencies to match into the chance you'll match is higher if you go to one of these better schools. So yes it makes a difference. Try and get the best mcat score you can otherwise you may not even be considered.

 

[MCAT guy]

OP, do you really want to know?

Do your own research. NRMP has surveys from Program Directors that rate the importance of all the factors of residency seleciton. This data is availabe in a few books, on NRMP's site, SDN, etc.

I think the reason people aren't liking you isn't curiousity, but your consistent attitude, "what are you mad? Did you score a 25 on the MCAT? You mad?" You sound childish. You think you've hurt someone's ego with a smug little post? lol.

You are focusing on the wrong thing. Do your best and get into the best schools you can, then go to the school that gives the best mix between quality, fit, and finance. It's that simple.

Some specialties it will matter, some it won't. To make a broad generalization is difficult, but if one had to chose a broad generalization, your US MD school will not be a difference maker.

Learn to have a little more class in asking questions.

 

[MCAT guy]

OP I didn't really read the whole the thread but take it you have upset people.

Let's put it this way: yes, it makes a difference where you go to medical school in the sense that some have better reputations than others. This will make it easier for you to get better residencies. That is fact. NOT all medical schools are the same. However, all medical schools will give you a good enough education to learn what you need know to be a good doc. Also you can still get good residency spots by going to less reputable schools (not highly ranked NIH funding wise). Usually the schools with higher reputations want better scores because more people are applying there. But your scores are not the only thing that matters.

Also residency programs do not just look at board scores. Many things matter such as their opinion of the quality of education a school provides, their experience with past residents from your med school, you grades in that school, your research experience, volunteer experience, etc. Reputation of the school is another factor (funding rank) and is measured by the match process. If you look at the "harder" residencies to match into the chance you'll match is higher if you go to one of these better schools. So yes it makes a difference. Try and get the best mcat score you can otherwise you may not even be considered.

Saying it makes a difference is like saying your pre-clinical grades make a difference. It is how much of a difference it makes. As I stated before, this really isn't a mystery. It's all published data. Medical school prestige is not in the top 5 factors for residency selection in most (or all?) specialties. Clinical grades, AOA, board scores, letters of rec from prominent faculty, etc are all much more important.

And if you had to pick one way to lean, it wouldn't be on the side of school prestige mattering greatly. Most specialties and at most programs, it isn't very important (i.e. a top 5 factor).

 

[SirGecko]

Thanks for the only other legitimate response in the thread.

I guess I am surprised because pretty much all other professions are very institution-obsessed (PhDs, MBAs, JDs). I was just curious to see if med was the same way. Thanks for the insight.

Fwiw, I'm not a guy and I am not looking to get laid as I am engaged. I don't get why some people find this thread offensive. Did I hurt your egos? All of the information I previously gathered about what constitutes a good MCAT score I learned from friends who are currently in medical school.

It is true that other professional schools that aren't medical can be very institution stratified. This is particularly true for law school and given that you keep posting your LSAT maybe that is the comparison you are thinking of?

I think more people are mad at you because you are in the wrong forum to be making these inquiries. This is the Allo forum. It's for issues relevant to medical students. You want the pre-allo forum. That's the one for general questions about the way medical school works and admissions standards.

 

[MossPoh]

I can go to the "worst" school, barely pass classes, barely pass boards, get into a subpar residency program and you know what? I would still have M.D. after my name and I would still use the same billing codes as someone who chose that specialty and went to the "best" school and residency.

 

[Gheorgia]

So if you graduate from one of the "worst" American med schools, you are still pretty much guaranteed a good job?

Pretty much yes in the 99% range - although if you applied to competitive programs (dermatology, neurosurgery) with very weak application and board scores, you end up risking not getting anywhere. On the other hand, if you are a decent student, passed all your class and rotation within the 4 year requirement and score within the average on the boards - you're pretty garanteed to "match" into a residency if you applied to a non-competitive program like IM or FM.

 

[FutureMDSurgeon]

Yo Berkley Grad dont worry about some of the responses here. the guys over here attacking u the most probably got the smallest wieners

 

[ArcGurren]

OP I didn't really read the whole the thread but take it you have upset people.

Let's put it this way: yes, it makes a difference where you go to medical school in the sense that some have better reputations than others. This will make it easier for you to get better residencies. That is fact. NOT all medical schools are the same. However, all medical schools will give you a good enough education to learn what you need know to be a good doc. Also you can still get good residency spots by going to less reputable schools (not highly ranked NIH funding wise). Usually the schools with higher reputations want better scores because more people are applying there. But your scores are not the only thing that matters.

Also residency programs do not just look at board scores. Many things matter such as their opinion of the quality of education a school provides, their experience with past residents from your med school, you grades in that school, your research experience, volunteer experience, etc. Reputation of the school is another factor (funding rank) and is measured by the match process. If you look at the "harder" residencies to match into the chance you'll match is higher if you go to one of these better schools. So yes it makes a difference. Try and get the best mcat score you can otherwise you may not even be considered.

Yes, some residency programs do care where you went for medical school, but they are generally in the minority, and insofar as I've read, they aren't going to accept a kid from Harvard with a 215 over a kid from somewhere else who got a 260 to get into Derm.

You're giving it way more importance than it actually has.

 

[Food]

you are fine as long as you're going to a US school. Worry about "less reputable" schools if you are at a Caribbean / IMG school (not promoting a viewpoint, just pointing out a fact).

 

[mfrizzo3]

Yo Berkley Grad dont worry about some of the responses here. the guys over here attacking u the most probably got the smallest wieners

I go to an unranked school and have a tremendous inferiority complex to my Top 20 med school friends. I also have a really tiny wiener. No need to rub it in guys.................

 

[MedicalBeast]

short answer: dominate your classes, boards, rotations, research experience, get good letters of recommendation, and you are set.

 

[osteohopeful09]

any medical, I dont care where/what country, can give you the same basic sciences education. the true differences in med schools comes from what clinical exposure they can give you. /thread. seriously, are you looking for a flamebait post? Get off your ***, finish your basic sciences work, and then get ready for the REAL work--clinicals. I dont care where you go, any half competent med school will give you a decent basic sciences education, if you're willing to work hard. Unfortunately, treating patients relies a lot less on how much basic biochem you know, and more on what clinical scenarios you've been exposed to. get out of here, OP

 

[officedepot]

Yes, some residency programs do care where you went for medical school, but they are generally in the minority, and insofar as I've read, they aren't going to accept a kid from Harvard with a 215 over a kid from somewhere else who got a 260 to get into Derm.

You're giving it way more importance than it actually has.

No yeah I agree with you. I think that first post came off as if I thought med school rank means a ton. It is important to some places and it can help offset (to some degree at least) some negative aspects to your application, but board scores, grades, and lors are more important.

Med school "reputation/rank" plays a role in the quality of your education and residencies out there know this. You just see more at some schools. That's why IMG who get 260s on step 1 still are not as competitive as a US grad with a 240 on step 1. It makes a difference. That guy from harvard with the 215 I bet could still match into a good IM or gen surg program with good clinical grades and lors.

 

[ArcGurren]

No yeah I agree with you. I think that first post came off as if I thought med school rank means a ton. It is important to some places and it can help offset (to some degree at least) some negative aspects to your application, but board scores, grades, and lors are more important.

Med school "reputation/rank" plays a role in the quality of your education and residencies out there know this. You just see more at some schools. That's why IMG who get 260s on step 1 still are not as competitive as a US grad with a 240 on step 1. It makes a difference. That guy from harvard with the 215 I bet could still match into a good IM or gen surg program with good clinical grades and lors.

Yes, being a Caribbean IMG vs. an AMG does make a difference but amongst AMGs, selection based on which medical school you went to is rare, and usually based on the biases of the residency director (in which case I'm not sure I'd want to go to that program anyway).

 

[robu058]

If the same question was to ask in the Pre-allo forum, you would have different, more aggressive and immature answers. They would start off by attacking the author (i.e, grades/mcat), the schools (low tiers) and finally, each other (oh yes: a lot of back and forth). We would probably have at least 5 pages of this.

However, I am very impressed for the most part by the Allo forum members response to this very same answer. It is quite different. It's like a different site onto itself. People here are more understanding, more courteous, always trying to help one another, and more importantly, mature in their logic.

Q: Beside the obvious, what else make the Allo forum members differ from pre-allo in term of temperament, courtesy, and a feeling of bonding???? After all, you can follow someone transition from pre-allo to allo here on SDN and the difference couldn't be so obvious. WHY???

 

[Gheorgia]

Q: Beside the obvious, what else make the Allo forum members differ from pre-allo in term of temperament, courtesy, and a feeling of bonding???? After all, you can follow someone transition from pre-allo to allo here on SDN and the difference couldn't be so obvious. WHY???

If you read the other thread by Jalby, we were discussing this and based on my experience - the pre-allo thread wasn't as horrible 3-5 years ago (most threads asked legitimate questions and most of the posters gave reasonable answers) I have a theory that in the past couple of years the pre-allo board has gone downhill because:

1. SDN has become more and more popular - since this is the internet, we have the MySpace/Facebook effect in the sense that the more accessible you make a certain website/tool the more it starts attrracting the lowest common denominator and trolls/spammers who have nothing better to do

2. Individuals on the Allo board are older and more mature - most of the readers can tell if you really go to medical school. And if you don't and BS on the allo thread, you get called out pretty quickly

3. People on the Allo threads are busy and don't have time for name-calling or acts of immaturity (Amazing isn't it how forcing people to be busy actually makes them more courteous)

4. There are a lot of people who don't get accepted to medical school because they lack the maturity or have underlying psychological issues. I see that there is a backlog of these individuals who were on SDN 5 years ago, who have not been accepted, who do nothing but troll on the pre-allo thread

 

[Jolie South]

More appropriate for Pre-Allo. Moving.

 

[HAV000]

If you read the other thread by Jalby, we were discussing this and based on my experience - the pre-allo thread wasn't as horrible 3-5 years ago (most threads asked legitimate questions and most of the posters gave reasonable answers) I have a theory that in the past couple of years the pre-allo board has gone downhill because:

1. SDN has become more and more popular - since this is the internet, we have the MySpace/Facebook effect in the sense that the more accessible you make a certain website/tool the more it starts attrracting the lowest common denominator and trolls/spammers who have nothing better to do

2. Individuals on the Allo board are older and more mature - most of the readers can tell if you really go to medical school. And if you don't and BS on the allo thread, you get called out pretty quickly

3. People on the Allo threads are busy and don't have time for name-calling or acts of immaturity (Amazing isn't it how forcing people to be busy actually makes them more courteous)

4. There are a lot of people who don't get accepted to medical school because they lack the maturity or have underlying psychological issues. I see that there is a backlog of these individuals who were on SDN 5 years ago, who have not been accepted, who do nothing but troll on the pre-allo thread

LOLLL. Thanks for sending OP our way then!

 

[bige11]

I take exception to the easy to get in to lower tier allo schools crap. Consider yourself very very fortunate to be in anywhere. I have a 37 MCAT, 3.8 gpa, and good ECs and I am sitting on 5 waiting lists now. At two of the schools I was told by my interviewer that I had a great interview. So please don't talk down to people on here who have devoted years of their lives to just have the opportunity to practice medicine! I know there are many smarter and better qualified people on this thread, but it isn't easy!

 

[Berkeleygrad]

I take exception to the easy to get in to lower tier allo schools crap. Consider yourself very very fortunate to be in anywhere. I have a 37 MCAT, 3.8 gpa, and good ECs and I am sitting on 5 waiting lists now. At two of the schools I was told by my interviewer that I had a great interview. So please don't talk down to people on here who have devoted years of their lives to just have the opportunity to practice medicine! I know there are many smarter and better qualified people on this thread, but it isn't easy!

Really good MCAT. Maybe something wrong with your ECs or you didn't apply to enough schools? I know people who got in this cycle with sub 30s....although they have WE because they are non-trads.

 

[HAV000]

Really good MCAT. Maybe something wrong with your ECs or you didn't apply to enough schools? I know people who got in this cycle with sub 30s....although they have WE because they are non-trads.

Lol you're a bit overly focused on the stats OP, and also the ranking/prestige based on your original post =P

on trying to make it to the most reputable med schools, and not the "bad med schools" as you refer to them.

 

[getdown]

Really good MCAT. Maybe something wrong with your ECs or you didn't apply to enough schools? I know people who got in this cycle with sub 30s....although they have WE because they are non-trads.

For someone who is just beginning their med school admissions process you sure seem to be able to offer a lot of judgement to those farther along.

 

[tabascosauce]

Really good MCAT. Maybe something wrong with your ECs or you didn't apply to enough schools? I know people who got in this cycle with sub 30s....although they have WE because they are non-trads.

hello fellow bear. please dont talk down to ppl. no one is ever in a position to do that. i see you. you cant see me.

 

[Berkeleygrad]

hello fellow bear. please dont talk down to ppl. no one is ever in a position to do that. i see you. you cant see me.

Over-sensitive much? How am I talking down to him? He has really good stats. He probably has better stats than everyone else in this thread. Therefore, the logical explanations are ECs or not applying to enough schools.