Let's Buy a Dental Practice

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I have a question--

Is it tre that if you do 4 yrs undergrad and DDS in USA you incur a debt of 350k$?

I shall have to do DDS for 2 years and shall have a loan of say 250k $. DOes that put me an advantage? Also What do you think of these corporate dental chains like say for Aspen Dental?

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I have a question--

Is it tre that if you do 4 yrs undergrad and DDS in USA you incur a debt of 350k$?

I shall have to do DDS for 2 years and shall have a loan of say 250k $. DOes that put me an advantage? Also What do you think of these corporate dental chains like say for Aspen Dental?
According to ADA, average dental grad debt is close to $200k. Many of those grads have undergrad debt too, so it's likely the average total debt including undergrad to be closer $250k. Remember, this is average, which means some people have 0 debt, and others about $500k if you include interest (USC grads would probably be in this category).

Foreign Dentists have a very limited choice. They can only go to expensive schools to get credentialed, and also have limited choice on where they can work when they graduate. Aspen is a dental mill, they are the gods of cheap dentures in this country. They will pay well, upto $250k a year at their busiest offices, but you will be seeing 50 patients a day including hygiene, pretty much EVERY DAY. If a foreign dentist worked at his/her own office at that rate, they would be making 3-4 times more of income than they would with Aspen. But it takes many years for a foreign dentist to even think about owning an office, as the US Immigration Law requires them to find a sponsor for their employment status after they graduate from the 2 yrs training program, and eventually work toward their permanent residency status (greencard).

The immigration process is the real headache for foreign trained dentists, debt is the least of their worries, at least the ones I know. Btw, this includes Canadians!
 
If you work for Aspen in a place like Maine, do you get paid more than average? Also, is it true that immigration application through work gets processed faster and these days these applications are becoming current within a year and a half?
 
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OK here's what we have done in the hiring process so far:

1. Placed "Want Ads" online and in print to "blind drop" email and mail addresses.

2. Establish a definitive criteria to filter out incompatible applicants and to rank the resumes' that have potential in order of importance

3. Call the applicants with potential and ask general questions to further refine your search

Now I send out an "Application for Employment" to further fill in what information you have about the applicant. REMEMBER!! There are laws about what you can and cannot ask an applicant. Using a standard application is a great way to ask all of the applicants the same questions and not get yourself into trouble with the Labor Board.

My "Application for Employment consists of this:

1. Applicant's Contact Information
- Full Name
- Mailing Address
- Telephone Numbers
- Social Security Number
- Email address
- Languages that the applicant can speak

2. Work Availability
- When can they start working for you
- Times available for work
- Salary requirements
- Can they travel for Continuing Education

3. Business Skills
- Typing Skills
- Accounting Skills
- Insurance experience
- Business reception skills

4. Dental Clinical Skills
- Familiar with Dental Terminology
- Treatment Planning
- Charting
- CPR Certified?
- Tray Set Up
- Lab Skills
- Room break down and set up
- OSHA training
- Radiology skills
- RDA Certification
etc

5. Level of Education with Names of Schools and dates
(Even though you are not allowed to ask someone their age you can ask them when they graduated from High School which should give you a good idea how old they are)

6. Any Specialized Training they might have attended with Names of Schools and dates attended

7. Employment Experience
- Employers name, address, type of work done, start and stop dates and most importantly why they left
- Supervisors names
- Salary
- Responsibilities

8. References both professional and personal
- Names and contact information

Then I end the application with these 5 questions;

1. What are you attracted to a career in dentistry
2. What about our organization prompted you to apply for a position with us?
3. Describe what you hope your career will look like five years from now
4. Describe your most favorite job and former position. Give three reasons that made it your favorite
5.List five reasons why this dental practice should consider you for employment

I then tell them I need to have this application back within 48 hours once that they get it. I encourage them to just drop it off by the office so that the staff can get a look at them as well.

Once I get these applications back I start calling ALL of their references especially work references. My next post I will talk about calling references and what questions I ask the references because I think that this is the most important part of the hiring process. If everything is OK with the references then I set up the final interviews and include the staff.

So next post we will talk about what to ask the applicant's references and how to legally find out the information that is import for you to know before you hire anyone.

Till then Drill, Fill, Bill and Chill. Keep the handpieces whirring and the tooth dust flying and your ink always in the black:thumbup:
 
Just a side note as to where I am practice wise. I've just finish my first full 6 months of practice (I basically took April off for surgery). The 900 sqft closet, I mean office:D that I am in is already way too small and affecting my ability to produce. I need a bigger space with at least 5 ops, another full time hygienist and an expanded function assistant.

So here's whats coming up. A friend of mine who is a periodontist is building himself a freestanding building so he is selling his 2000 sqft practice. It is located 25 ft behind my current space. He wants $200,000 for it and because he is my friend he is leaving the vacuum and the air compressor. I figured I will need at least another $40,000 to outfit all of the ops.

The biggest mistake I made when I built my first office was not to do enough competitive price shopping and I bought all new equipment. It is very very easy to blow your budget when you are opening a new office. You have so many different things all screaming for your attention from the contractors to your dental suppliers and your staff (especially if you are still seeing patients while you are doing it)

This time I am going to buy used if possible for whatever equipment I might need. I would definitely recommend shopping in the used dental equipment market first whenever you need a new piece of equipment. Dental equipment is designed to last forever and a reconditioned piece will save you a ton of money

So I go off to the bank to borrow more money for this new practice. I'm looking to consolidate my other loans and borrow enough for the new office. This is what I am looking at

New office loan $250,000
Current Practice loan $300,000
Old practice loan $288,000

Total Loan $838,000 :scared::scared::scared:

Yes that is a lot of money but remember, all I am asking for is $250,000. The other loans I already have and I've been paying them off and have not missed a payment. All that I am asking the bank is to assume the other loans so that I only have one huge a s s payment a month.

$838,000 is a lot of money but if I have a larger space, another hygienist and an expanded function auxiliary I should be able to cover it.

I've sent off the paperwork to the bank so let's see what happens next:thumbup:
 
Just a side note as to where I am practice wise. I've just finish my first full 6 months of practice (I basically took April off for surgery). The 900 sqft closet, I mean office:D that I am in is already way too small and affecting my ability to produce. I need a bigger space with at least 5 ops, another full time hygienist and an expanded function assistant.

So here's whats coming up. A friend of mine who is a periodontist is building himself a freestanding building so he is selling his 2000 sqft practice. It is located 25 ft behind my current space. He wants $200,000 for it and because he is my friend he is leaving the vacuum and the air compressor. I figured I will need at least another $40,000 to outfit all of the ops.

The biggest mistake I made when I built my first office was not to do enough competitive price shopping and I bought all new equipment. It is very very easy to blow your budget when you are opening a new office. You have so many different things all screaming for your attention from the contractors to your dental suppliers and your staff (especially if you are still seeing patients while you are doing it)

This time I am going to buy used if possible for whatever equipment I might need. I would definitely recommend shopping in the used dental equipment market first whenever you need a new piece of equipment. Dental equipment is designed to last forever and a reconditioned piece will save you a ton of money

So I go off to the bank to borrow more money for this new practice. I'm looking to consolidate my other loans and borrow enough for the new office. This is what I am looking at

New office loan $250,000
Current Practice loan $300,000
Old practice loan $288,000


Total Loan $838,000 :scared::scared::scared:

Yes that is a lot of money but remember, all I am asking for is $250,000. The other loans I already have and I've been paying them off and have not missed a payment. All that I am asking the bank is to assume the other loans so that I only have one huge a s s payment a month.

$838,000 is a lot of money but if I have a larger space, another hygienist and an expanded function auxiliary I should be able to cover it.

I've sent off the paperwork to the bank so let's see what happens next:thumbup:
Why couldn't you raise the investment for the new practice from your current practice? why dig deeper yourself into more debt? $838k is a lot of bones.

Also, how do banks react to this? when you go back and ask for more $$$? do they use a formula from your current practice revenue to determine how much more they can for out to you? I'm hoping to add a chair or 2 to my practice by the end of this year, and I'm shooting to do it from my own cash flow. This way, I can write it all off under the LLC, versus a bank loan - only the interest can be a tax deductible (it's an IOU money, so you can't write the principle off).

I agree, be very aggressive when equipping your ops. You can do it about $15k per op with the best chairs and cabinets the market has to offer. Also, best deals are available during Q4.
 
Just curious- what type of interest rates are banks charging for business loans in our current market?
 
Why couldn't you raise the investment for the new practice from your current practice? why dig deeper yourself into more debt? $838k is a lot of bones.

I second this question. Didn't you sell your old practice? Why don't you apply the proceeds from the sale of the first practice to the old practice loan?
 
I second this question. Didn't you sell your old practice? Why don't you apply the proceeds from the sale of the first practice to the old practice loan?

Without getting into the painful details I went through a bad divorce right after I sold my practice. It grievously hurt me both emotionally and financially. After the dust settled and the lawyers were paid, I had about $200,000 that I invested in my current practice (new equipment, computers etc and working capital) as a loan which I repay to myself. I also had a $300K loan prior to my divorce, which for reasons I won't disclose, I wound up with after our assets were settled.

If I had the money then yes I would use it again as a loan to myself to be repaid by me to me but that is not possible given my current financial situation.

So for any of you who are strapped with school debt and are considering taking on more debt to open your own practice then take heart to know that I am in the same boat with you. The only difference is I have been rowing that boat a little longer than you:thumbup:
 
Without getting into the painful details I went through a bad divorce right after I sold my practice. It grievously hurt me both emotionally and financially. After the dust settled and the lawyers were paid, I had about $200,000 that I invested in my current practice (new equipment, computers etc and working capital) as a loan which I repay to myself. I also had a $300K loan prior to my divorce, which for reasons I won't disclose, I wound up with after our assets were settled.

If I had the money then yes I would use it again as a loan to myself to be repaid by me to me but that is not possible given my current financial situation.

So for any of you who are strapped with school debt and are considering taking on more debt to open your own practice then take heart to know that I am in the same boat with you. The only difference is I have been rowing that boat a little longer than you:thumbup:


So are you implying that the ability to get a loan to buy a practice is hampered severely by the amount of student loan debt you have? Or are you simply saying that you have a lot of debt, like current students graduating?
 
So are you implying that the ability to get a loan to buy a practice is hampered severely by the amount of student loan debt you have? Or are you simply saying that you have a lot of debt, like current students graduating?

After my divorce I had a lot of debt and very little collateral like a new grad. Luckily the banks that lend to dentists looking to buy a practice understand this and will work with you:thumbup:
 
After my divorce I had a lot of debt and very little collateral like a new grad. Luckily the banks that lend to dentists looking to buy a practice understand this and will work with you:thumbup:


Ur the real tooth pimp hammer!! Way to go!!!! I love your spirit!!! The burning ambition...you have fire in your belly!! Way to go!!!!
 
OK I'm at London's Heathrow airport so I thought I'd check in. I'll be returning to the USA later today and I'll try to finish out the hiring process.

I've also had several people ask me about firing someone so I'll start on that next:thumbup:
 
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91,000 views and still not a sticky?!!:confused:

What am I doing wrong?:(
 
This is a great read. I'm entering my first year of dental school in the fall, and I will definitely remember this thread. Thanks, Hammer!
 
Incoming student here as well. Please keep the info coming
 
OK now that you have narrowed down your applicants its time to check references. I only call the people that they have worked for in the past. I rarely bother with the people that the applicants list as "personal references". I want to know what the people who they have worked for have to say about them. Believe it or not I have had several people in the past list their parents as "personal references" Once I did call an applicant's parents just to see what they would say about their child and they told me not to hire them because they were lazy!! LOL!!:D:D

One problem that you might run into when checking references is if the applicant worked for a big company like a university or hospital. Companies like this have a strict policy that the only answers that Human Resources can give you are
1. Date of Employment
2. Position
3. Salary

And that is it. Also you are not talking directly to the person who they were working under so calling HR is basically worthless. In this situation I usually try to find out who their immediate supervisor was and contact them. Even then you can still get stonewalled. In situations like this I try to find other employees that they have worked with and talk to them. The other employees can answer more freely and you can sometimes glean important information from them.

Once I am able to talk to someone who the applicant worked under here is how I proceed. Keep in mind that no one wants to speak badly about another person and keep them from finding a job. Even if the applicant was a bad employee the reference may speak highly of them just so they can foist them off on someone else and get rid of them.

First I tell the reference who I am and explain the position that I am considering the applicant for. I try to go into great detail about what the job requires and then I ask the reference if they think that the applicant is well suited for this position.

Things that I want to find out through these questions:
1. How flexible is the applicant to learning new skills
2. How do they deal with difficult people
3. Can they be trusted
4. Can they be discrete
5. Do they work well with other people
6. Can they be professional
7. Are they self motivated for work

I also ask what the reason was for the applicant to leave this job and I ask the reference if they would ever hire the applicant again given the opportunity.

I ask if the applicant had any issues with absences, showing up late or leaving early and if they created any drama while they were on the job. And most importantly I ask if the applicant is motivated to work on their own without supervision or if they need to be constantly monitored.

One advantage in hiring that I had was I was working in a small town and my first office manager was a gossip. Anytime I was considering someone for a position I would have my OM put feelers out to dig up any dirt on them and usually she would find something. In a larger city this is not possible but in a small town it is amazing the things that you can find out about someone.

Next post I will talk about the final interview with all of the employees but one final note before I go I'd like to strongly recommend this book:

"How to Spot a Liar by Greg Hartley"

http://www.amazon.com/How-Spot-Liar-People-Truth/dp/1564148408/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312633674&sr=1-1

It is a fascinating read and very helpful especially when you are doing hiring interviews.

OK so that is that for now, next post will be the all important staff interviews and as always please ask questions or add to the discussion with your own ideas and experiences :thumbup:
 
What do you think about having a dental and medical practice in the same office? My father is a physician and he wants me to use some of the rooms in his office when I graduate from Dental school. Have you seen this situation? If not, do you think its a good idea( or terrible)?

I haven't seen that. The only problem that I can see is that you would have to have a totally different staff and computer system than what your Dad has. If you can manage having two different practices under one roof it might work out very well:thumbup:
 
What do you think about having a dental and medical practice in the same office? My father is a physician and he wants me to use some of the rooms in his office when I graduate from Dental school. Have you seen this situation? If not, do you think its a good idea( or terrible)?

As a patient, I wouldn't be happy if I went to the dentist and a bunch of sick people were in the waiting area with me. And if I got sick from them? I'd never go back. Seems like an infection control nightmare. If you have the space I would put up a wall and completely separate the two practices.
 
What do you think about having a dental and medical practice in the same office? My father is a physician and he wants me to use some of the rooms in his office when I graduate from Dental school. Have you seen this situation? If not, do you think its a good idea( or terrible)?
The only way I've seen this is with cosmetic surgeons.
 
What do you think about having a dental and medical practice in the same office? My father is a physician and he wants me to use some of the rooms in his office when I graduate from Dental school. Have you seen this situation? If not, do you think its a good idea( or terrible)?

I think it might work in a rural area, but I don't think it would go over so well in the suburbs or a city.
 
How is it that dentists can ever be winners in "schemes" like these?

I think a good protective position to be in would be letting dentists dictate their own prices and keeping everyone else out of the discussion.

I just joined HealthSouk.com (they are competitors to Brighter.com) I heard they launched after they found that these "dental" deal sites were trying to price fix. . .so they started a real-time program...I am a dentist and didn't want to become a victim of yet another "business scheme" started by business people (non-dentists). I signed up with HealthSouk.com and there are no fees for anyone, not the the patients and not the doctors. . .

I saw that HealthSouk was launched and run by a group of doctors so I'm glad they are here to protect the dental profession while still serving patients. . .I got my first patient with it last week. It worked.

Check it out and let me know what you think? HealthSouk.com

<a href="http:/www.healthsouk.com>HealthSouk</a>
 
How is it that dentists can ever be winners in "schemes" like these?

I think a good protective position to be in would be letting dentists dictate their own prices and keeping everyone else out of the discussion.

amen :thumbup:
 
Hammer! This thread has been amazing, eye-opening and inspirational in the total essence of the word. I am only a senior in high school toying the idea of being a general practice dentist, but your thread has really solidified my interest and confirmed that it is for me! The business, the doing, the science. My question is what would a comfortable patient base be? Also what is the normal number of patients visited on a single day?or week? Also how do you handle incentives for patients that refer you out to others, do you offer maybe a discount to both? Thank you ahead of time!
 
By visiting I mean on average how many patients do you see a day?or for a normal week? Also what is the average amount of revenue being pulled on a single day on average?
 
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Why is this thread not stickied? It should be nailed on the very top of Dental forum, in my opinion.
 
Knock, knock................

Hellllllooooooo mods?!?!? STICKY this thread already!

:slap:
 
Hammer! This thread has been amazing, eye-opening and inspirational in the total essence of the word. I am only a senior in high school toying the idea of being a general practice dentist, but your thread has really solidified my interest and confirmed that it is for me! The business, the doing, the science. My question is what would a comfortable patient base be? Also what is the normal number of patients visited on a single day?or week? Also how do you handle incentives for patients that refer you out to others, do you offer maybe a discount to both? Thank you ahead of time!

This is a pretty hard question to answer because it depends on so many factors. Since we will be speaking in generalities lets say the practices are open Mon-Fri from 8 until 5.

If you have a practice that saw mostly medicare or HMO patients you would need a large patient base (3000+ for one doctor) and you would want to see 20+ patients a day for both hygiene and the doctor.

If you were in a mostly insurance based practice (80% patients with insurance) you would want about 2100 patients per doctor with doctor and hygiene seeing 13-16 patients a day

When I first started out in practice right after dental school I saw alot of medicare kids so I saw about 10 patients per day

Fast forward 12 years later and I was only seeing 2-3 patients a day but doing mostly full mouth stuff.
 
This is a pretty hard question to answer because it depends on so many factors. Since we will be speaking in generalities lets say the practices are open Mon-Fri from 8 until 5.

If you have a practice that saw mostly medicare or HMO patients you would need a large patient base (3000+ for one doctor) and you would want to see 20+ patients a day for both hygiene and the doctor.

If you were in a mostly insurance based practice (80% patients with insurance) you would want about 2100 patients per doctor with doctor and hygiene seeing 13-16 patients a day

When I first started out in practice right after dental school I saw alot of medicare kids so I saw about 10 patients per day

Fast forward 12 years later and I was only seeing 2-3 patients a day but doing mostly full mouth stuff.

Hammer, how many hygienists do you have?
 
Hammer, how many hygienists do you have?

From 1995-2009 in my old practice I had 2 full time hygienists 4 days a week.
Currently I have one full time hygienist 5 days a week. I am about to buy another practice and move into its space. I will then have 5 ops so I will try to have 2 full time hygienists again
 
Hammer, what about the referrals for patients to refer others? Is that a wise idea? Maybe offer a free cleaning for the current patient and certain percentage for the new patient? What's is your take on stuff like that?
 
Hammer, what about the referrals for patients to refer others? Is that a wise idea? Maybe offer a free cleaning for the current patient and certain percentage for the new patient? What's is your take on stuff like that?

Usually to generate internal referrals I give the patient a discount on whatever work that they need to have done. Usually about 10%
 
People tend to ignore the stickies. I think as long as the thread is active it won't get stickied. Not my call though.


:thumbup::thumbup: This is a great thread and I like that I can see there are new posts by Hammer when I see it towards the top of the forum. I tend to ignore stickies too.
 
Usually to generate internal referrals I give the patient a discount on whatever work that they need to have done. Usually about 10%

Do you let your patients know upfront that you'll give them a 10% discount for referrals or do you surprise them with the discount after they send you a referral?
 
Do you let your patients know upfront that you'll give them a 10% discount for referrals or do you surprise them with the discount after they send you a referral?

I usually tell them upfront. I give them the discount and tell them that since I gave them a discount they have to tell their friends about me. Then I give them some of my business cards. I tell them to tell their friends to be sure to let us know who referred them to my office when they make their first appointment.

Its a pretty simple way of doing some internal marketing but it works amazingly well for me.:)
 
I was curious about your thoughts towards an internal method of information. I always thought a good idea would be a "viewbook" type of production, that would help with new patients and patients that were with the previous owner of the practice.

In the viewbook I picture between 10 - 14 pages of information, ranging from a brief summary of the tooth and oral cavity, maybe an article over the importance of oral maintenance, preocedure that are offered, payment options and plans, a brief history or background on you to help establish trust a little, also maybe a "mission statement" and various full page photographs of smiling pretty peole? If attainable for around $4 a booklet do you believe its a good investment?

Also another idea is to have a set of paper with various problems (not being a dentist I have no clue) maybe like chipped tooth, blank-osis, etc. with a before and after picture, and an overview of the problem and then the summary of procedure with a summary why it is important with a price, amount of time required, etc. Do you think that may help ease people into different treatments? Thanks ahead of time.
 
Do you let your patients know upfront that you'll give them a 10% discount for referrals or do you surprise them with the discount after they send you a referral?

JADA covers this in their new issue:

What are the Ethical Issues I Need to Consider When Developing Marketing Strategies for My Practice?

Rod B. Wentworth, DDS

Q

I recently attended a practice management seminar on recruiting and retaining patients. One of the topics discussed was the use of incentives to motivate patients to make appointments. For new patients, the speaker suggested using a marketing technique in which the practice gives gifts (such as department store cash cards) to patients who receive an initial examination. To motivate patients who are overdue for their regular prophylaxis appointments, the speaker suggested that when telephoning these patients, office staff members should stress links between periodontal disease and systemic disease and use the phrase “periodontal maintenance” when informing patients of the importance of returning for recall appointments. Are there any ethical concerns I should have regarding

A

I think your question may best be explored by dividing it into two parts: one regarding the strategy to attract new patients and the other regarding strategies to encourage existing patients to return for their regular recall visits. In addition to this ethical assessment, it is important for you to check your state’s regulations to determine how they may apply to any marketing plan you decide to implement.

First, consider incentives for new patients. In a private practice setting, your business success may well depend on your ability to attract new patients, and there are many ways to market your professional services. You mention using a cash card to accomplish this. This may or may not be an ethical choice, depending on how you plan to use it.

On the basis of the American Dental Association Principles of Ethics and Code of Professional Conduct1 (ADA Code), we cannot ethically pay for patients. Just as it states in Section 5.F.4, Referral Services, that a dentist is “generally not permitted to make payments to another person or entity for the referral of a patient for professional services,”1 it also is unethical to pay your current patients to refer other patients to your practice. An example of this is a marketing campaign in which you offer a significant gift to existing patients—for example, a $100 cash card—for each patient they refer to you. Another possibility is to hold a contest in which you pay the patient who refers the most patients to your practice each month. In these examples, you have tendered an offer of a gift with value and given the patient making the referral a financial incentive to do so. This also could be considered a rebate, which is prohibited by Section 4.E, Rebates and Split Fees.1

However, this likely would not apply to an unsolicited cash card that you send along with a thank-you note to an existing patient who, on his or her own accord, recommends a neighbor to you. In this case, the patient did not solicit the gift and, particularly if it is nominal in value, the cash card likely would be considered a gesture of thanks, with no unethical overtones. Likewise, items that you may dispense gratuitously such as oral hygiene aids and toothbrushes typically would not be considered an ethical problem, because they are adjuncts to your care.

If you are considering offering some form of cash card to prospective patients for an initial visit, you should take into account the ethical implications as they relate to Advisory Opinion 5.B.1, Waiver of Copayment, which states that

[a] dentist who accepts a third party payment under a copayment plan as payment in full without disclosing to the third party that the patient’s payment portion will not be collected is engaged in overbilling. The essence of this ethical impropriety is deception and misrepresentation; an overbilling dentist makes it appear to the third party that the charge to the patient for services rendered is higher than it actually is.1

Simply put, if you discount a fee to a patient, then you must disclose the discount to any third-party payer involved. To illustrate, let us say you decide to offer a $100 merchant cash card for a new-patient examination, radiographs and a prophylaxis. In effect, you have discounted one or more of the procedures and may be obligated to inform the third-party payer of the discount.

The second issue concerns marketing strategies to motivate your current patients to return for their scheduled prophylaxis appointments. Because much of the practice of dentistry involves educating patients, you will want to inform and remind them regularly of the need to maintain their scheduled appointment sequence. Concerning research into links between oral health and systemic health, not only is this a hot topic within our profession, but also it is a popular news item of which many of our patients are well aware. However, this is a complex topic that involves various diseases and systemic conditions and the extent to which they are associated with oral conditions. Levels of evidence vary dramatically, and the science is changing as more is learned. As Lantz and Foy2 noted, dentists have an ethical obligation to include an evidence-based approach when making treatment recommendations. The overriding principle is veracity; as stated in Section 5, Principle of Veracity (“truthfulness”), “[t]he dentist has a duty to communicate truthfully.”

On the basis of current scientific evidence, it may be acceptable to inform patients that heart and periodontal diseases have a number of factors in common and that a significant amount of research is ongoing to better define the relationship between them. On the other hand, if you were to tell all of your patients that they would be at risk of experiencing a heart attack if they did not return for their recommended recall visits, you would be treading on unethical ground in view of the ADA Code, Section 5.A.2, Unsubstantiated Representations:

A dentist who represents that dental treatment or diagnostic techniques recommended or performed by the dentist has the capacity to diagnose, cure or alleviate diseases, infections or other conditions, when such representations are not based upon accepted scientific knowledge or research, is acting unethically.1

Conversely, ignoring or withholding accepted scientific knowledge or research findings in your discussions with a patient when making treatment decisions also may have ethical implications.

As for the speaker’s recommendation that, after informing patients of potential oral-systemic links, you stress the need for the patient to return for “periodontal maintenance,” it is important to keep in mind section 5.A, Representation of Care, which warns us not to represent treatment in a “false or misleading manner.”1 Remember that “periodontal maintenance” is a specific procedure defined by the Code on Dental Procedures and Nomenclature3 and is reserved for continuing periodontal care of patients who have undergone periodontal therapy; dentists can use this code ethically only for such patients. Periodontal maintenance is not appropriate for patients who are to receive a routine cleaning or prophylaxis. Directing staff members to tell patients to return for periodontal maintenance would not be ethical unless you limit this practice to patients who have been treated with scaling and root planing or surgery for periodontal disease.

Marketing is an important part of all business interactions with the public. In our profession, we provide care based on the trust our patients place in us. They expect us to be truthful and put their health ahead of our bottom line. As long as we market our services in an honest manner that maintains that trust, we will continue to meet our professional responsibility.
 
I was curious about your thoughts towards an internal method of information. I always thought a good idea would be a "viewbook" type of production, that would help with new patients and patients that were with the previous owner of the practice.

In the viewbook I picture between 10 - 14 pages of information, ranging from a brief summary of the tooth and oral cavity, maybe an article over the importance of oral maintenance, preocedure that are offered, payment options and plans, a brief history or background on you to help establish trust a little, also maybe a "mission statement" and various full page photographs of smiling pretty peole? If attainable for around $4 a booklet do you believe its a good investment?

Also another idea is to have a set of paper with various problems (not being a dentist I have no clue) maybe like chipped tooth, blank-osis, etc. with a before and after picture, and an overview of the problem and then the summary of procedure with a summary why it is important with a price, amount of time required, etc. Do you think that may help ease people into different treatments? Thanks ahead of time.

That's not a bad idea. The big question would be will the patient's take the time to read it. Also most of this information could just be put on the dental practices website so that the patient's could view it at any time. Good idea though:thumbup:
 
For you guys who are dental students, does your school give you a class in Practice Management? Do they have guest dentists come in and lecture? If so I would love to come and talk to dental students about buying a practice. I guess I miss being an instructor:D
 
For you guys who are dental students, does your school give you a class in Practice Management? Do they have guest dentists come in and lecture? If so I would love to come and talk to dental students about buying a practice. I guess I miss being an instructor:D

We do at UTmem, i'm actually in it right now. Contact Dr. Redmond in the pedo dept. if you're interested. I'm sure he would love to have you.
 
People tend to ignore the stickies. I think as long as the thread is active it won't get stickied. Not my call though.

It's a status thing. If ever there was a thread that was worthy of sticky, this is the stickiest!
 
For you guys who are dental students, does your school give you a class in Practice Management? Do they have guest dentists come in and lecture? If so I would love to come and talk to dental students about buying a practice. I guess I miss being an instructor:D

If you promise to be as entertaining as your denture lecture, I'd welcome you back!

MWU has actually done a decent job of getting a variety of guest speakers to talk to us about a bunch of Practice Management topics. We've had BofA, Wells Fargo, CPAs, attorneys, consultants, etc. I don't think they were well received though since those issues are the last thing on the minds of about 85% of the students. A more real-world perspective on PM from someone like you would be awesome and more applicable right now for us.

Let me know when to expect the second coming of The Hammer.:laugh:
 
If you promise to be as entertaining as your denture lecture, I'd welcome you back!

MWU has actually done a decent job of getting a variety of guest speakers to talk to us about a bunch of Practice Management topics. We've had BofA, Wells Fargo, CPAs, attorneys, consultants, etc. I don't think they were well received though since those issues are the last thing on the minds of about 85% of the students. A more real-world perspective on PM from someone like you would be awesome and more applicable right now for us.

Let me know when to expect the second coming of The Hammer.:laugh:

I've heard from some other students that your practice management class is pretty top notch. Tell the professor teaching it that I'd love to fly in on my own nickle and talk for a couple of hours. Show him this thread to let him know that I'm for real. I might even tell the story about the denture patient who accidentally caused me to set my hair on fire lol:D
 
Hammer,

This thread is amazing. I haven't really been on SDN since applying to dental school but I was looking for something the other day and stumbled across this thread. I have read the entire thread every chance I have had for the past 3 days. Thank you for taking the time to share this information with all of us. After reading this I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel and feel like these discussions have given me at least a small glimpse of what is to come.

I am very eager to hear what you have to say about how to find a good OM (especially after you said that yours was worth every penny to get her back). I think someone with with the proper skill set in this position could make an office run very efficiently and take a lot of stress of the doctor.

Secondly, if you are still thinking about making this thread into a book I would definitely buy it. Especially if you had some your accountant, lawyer, and such add their two cents. I really liked how your posts were to the simple but informative. I would love to see something like this in either an ebook or print.

Lastly, I am not sure what lays ahead for me in the way of practice management at OUCOD (3 years left) but I think it would be great to have someone like yourself come in and run through some of the scenarios like you have had in this thread and discuss the pros and cons of each. I feel like having a practicing dentist come in and talk "real world" stuff is always a breath of fresh air (and usually what I actually take home from the course).

Anyways, thanks again and I look forward to hearing about how to find that valuable office manager.
 
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