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I have my interview next week... anyone else in a similar boat? interview already? would love to know your thoughts!
lets talk about DUKE
- Thread starter Jessie12
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I recommend staying with a host med student. There are few better means to get to know the strengths and weaknesses of a school. Of course, keep in mind that MS2s are going to be much more knowledgeable than MS1s.
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Anyone applying to Duke's MD program in singapore?
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Whoaaaa....singapore?? How does that work? If someone went there, would they have to take a test to come back to US (like doing foreign medical school anywhere else)? Or would it be transferrable since it's with Duke?
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I think that program favors Singaporeans. Isn't that the whole idea?
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I'm an MSII at duke currently...let me know if you guys have any questions.
And to answer the question about Duke in Singapore, you wouldn't be considered an IMG if you graduated from there. Though I'm not sure who the program gives preference to.
And to answer the question about Duke in Singapore, you wouldn't be considered an IMG if you graduated from there. Though I'm not sure who the program gives preference to.
What are you doing in your third year? Do you feel that 1 years was too little to cover all the basic sciences? Did you manage to absorb as much? It seems very compressed to me. Now I think I get the joke a FMG MD told me who did his residency at Duke (he had 4 years basic science as an FMG): "If you ask a duke student if their patient has one kidney or two they wouldn't be able to answer" or something like that, but less lame. Of course he was being facetious and didn't mean anything by it, but I can see why a joke like that would have developed among FMGs who generally have 4x the training in basic science.
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I love the curriculum, and no, I'm not being paid to say that. Things definitely do go faster and it can get stressful (but then again, what med school isn't?), but they also cut out some of the superfluous stuff. For example, at some schools you have to learn every step of the Krebs cycle during biochem. How is that going to make you a better doctor? Better yet, are you even going to remember it 2 days after you have your exam? We had to learn the Krebs cycle but not memorize every step, which I think makes more sense. And, as far as I understand it, step 1 doesn't require you to have every step memorized either. That was just an example of what I'm talking about. Seriously, the clinical year is where everything comes together and you learn the really important things. I don't feel like I missed out on anything in my first year.
And 3rd year, as you probably know, you can do research or get a dual degree. I'm doing clinical research since I'm tired of mice and PCRs. As long as you can make your project somewhat related to medicine (e.g. it can be public health-related, about medical ethics, etc.), you can do it your 3rd year.
Do you take your step1 at the end of 2nd year? I've heard from med students that the step doesn't really test anything that you would be significantly more comfortable with after doing your rotations and they think the sooner you take the step after your basic sciences the better. If you've already taken the step I'm assuming you felt that your one year of basic science prepared you adequately. Do you feel that anatomy was deemphasized in comparison to other schools curricula? What are your feelings on the area (just to get some context, what areas did you go to undergrad and grow up in)?
Thanks for answering some of my questions. Earning an MPH during med school without extending my length of education sounds pretty awesome so I wan't to research duke as much as I can. I don't know a whole lot yet since I'm not applying any time soon, but since you so kindly volunteered to help... ;]
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No problem. It's 2pm on a saturday, I woke up not too long ago...it's either this or work, so this wins! Anyway, you take step 1 anytime during your 3rd year. I've heard from many people (not just those that went to duke) that the clinical year is actually quite helpful for step 1 because you have a year of putting that info into context rather than just trying to memorize it from some review book. As far as anatomy goes, we had 12 weeks of it. The only thing was that we took physiology and histo at the same time, so I don't think we went into some of the same detail as some other schools do. However, I can't think of anything that students at another school covered that we didn't, so I really didn't find it all that "deficient."
I like the Durham-Chapel Hill area. I went to undergrad at duke so I've been here for 6.5 years now. It's small but not too small and everything is within driving distance. There's plenty of stuff to do, though you might not think so if you live in NYC or something.
Speaking of which, I need a car before med school ;[
I've just had the importance of anatomy drilled in my head by the FMGs I hang around. They do at least a year of anatomy and they always tell me that they can't imagine how we cram their 4 years of basic science in to 2 (and in duke's case 1). This has got me paranoid. What drew you to duke initially? What other schools were you strongly considering?
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First year here, currently in the Anatomy/Physiology/Histology block. I would definitely NOT say that Gross Anatomy is under emphasized here. In fact, it's been getting kind of annoying how the instructors are always making Anatomy out to be the most important course when I personally find Physiology to be far more interesting. But I digress. Anyway, in our three month Gross Anatomy course we definitely seem to be covering everything pretty comprehensively. The only major difference I see between here and the other schools with which I am familiar is that we move VERY quickly through dissection, so we don't have time to dissect out all of the smallest blood vessel and nerve tributaries. However, dissection gives you more than enough exposure to understand the 3D organization of the body and what things look like in reality. In fact, I much prefer getting to see all of the major structures in lab and filling in the details of the tiny, minor branches out of the textbook instead of spending extra hours upon hours in the lab digging through fat and fascia to find tiny things I can barely see and would probably destroy.
A few other points I can speak to:
1) I came here from a major metropolitan area, and I have to say that with how busy med school is there is more than enough to do in the Durham Chapel Hill area. Plus the lower cost of living here is a huge plus!
2) As has already been stated, the "one year" preclinical curriculum, while certainly strenuous, isn't nearly as impossible as it might sound. Our first year is a bit longer than at other schools, so really it's more like 2 years in ~1.25 years. Second, they do eliminate a lot of pointless memorization and focus more on the things that will be important for application later on (like not memorizing the Kreb's Cycle or the 12 different proteins that go into the secretory granules of a cell type you'll look at in Histology). Second, having the courses pretty well integrated cuts down on a lot of repeating of information. For instance, at a lot of schools you'll first take Histology, learn how all the different cell types work and then have to relearn that and a lot more when you take Physiology. Since we take those two courses together you'll end up only being taught some things once or twice that would have been repeated a lot elsewhere.
A few other points I can speak to:
1) I came here from a major metropolitan area, and I have to say that with how busy med school is there is more than enough to do in the Durham Chapel Hill area. Plus the lower cost of living here is a huge plus!
2) As has already been stated, the "one year" preclinical curriculum, while certainly strenuous, isn't nearly as impossible as it might sound. Our first year is a bit longer than at other schools, so really it's more like 2 years in ~1.25 years. Second, they do eliminate a lot of pointless memorization and focus more on the things that will be important for application later on (like not memorizing the Kreb's Cycle or the 12 different proteins that go into the secretory granules of a cell type you'll look at in Histology). Second, having the courses pretty well integrated cuts down on a lot of repeating of information. For instance, at a lot of schools you'll first take Histology, learn how all the different cell types work and then have to relearn that and a lot more when you take Physiology. Since we take those two courses together you'll end up only being taught some things once or twice that would have been repeated a lot elsewhere.
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No...though I'm dying to hopefully get one!
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Let's just say that I cannot fathom doing basic sciences in 4 years, much less 2. One was PLENTY for all of us. There's no need to get paranoid about it either. Duke is accredited and highly regarded...if they produced inferior doctors, then they would be forced to change the curriculum.
A lot of factors will go into your med school decision. For me, it was location, the fact that I went to undergrad there, the fact that I love Duke and wasn't ready to leave, and that my boyfriend would be at UNC Med. And if all that wouldn't have been enough, I really liked the curriculum. There are far more advantages to doing your rotations in 2nd year than there are disadvantages, at least in my opinion.
I'm sold. Pending further research I will probably be applying. Unfortunately, it seems that duke is a VERY competitive school ;[.
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Duke doesn't only want the smartest applicants (case in point: I'm a student here)...it also loves people that love Duke. For whoever is applying and decides they want to be here, make sure you let them know. I know so many instances where it's actually helped.
What you guys are saying about Duke's curriculum sounds similar to Penn's. Basic sciences are done in 1.5 yrs and step one is taken a year after that, so basically you have a 1 of rotations under your belt before step 1. In another thread we discussed this, and it seems that most people think it's a bad idea. However, Penn's students score extremely high and said during my interview that it actually helps them to take some shelf exams and doing rotations before step 1.
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what do you mean by "letting them know"? do you mean calling the admissions office? just being really enthusiastic during the interview?
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LOIs, emails, etc. Not necessary, but it doesn't hurt.
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I graduated from Duke in 2006, and wanted to echo several of the things that have been said here. I absolutely loved my time at Duke, and feel that the curriculum offers countless advantages over more traditional ones. That said, it's certainly not for everyone. It's helpful to do a search for threads in the pre-allo forum with "duke" in the title, as this topic has been pretty thoroughly debated by tons of people. It's a quick way to get lots of other opinions too.
As others have mentioned, the first year at Duke is longer than other schools, as there's no 3-month summer break (but there's plenty of vacation time...no worries). I preferred this because I didn't have to worry about finding a lab to work in or a summer job. But it also means that when you're comparing Duke to other schools, you need to realize that it's 11 months vs. ~18-20 months, not 1 year vs. 2 years. In addition, the topics covered in those 11 months at Duke are basically the topics that other schools cover in their first 14 months or so, because the first 2 years are NOT actually all "basic science" in most curricula. Other schools spend a sizeable amount of time during their 2nd years covering pre-clinical topics like radiology, dermatology, orthopedics, ophthalmology, etc. etc. These are things that are just not covered extensively in the pre-clinical curriculum at Duke, and for good reason...you learn these things best in the context of real patients, on the wards. Plus, this stuff isn't even on the boards, it's just meant to better prepare you for your time on the wards. Cutting these topics out is one of the biggest ways Duke is able to shorten the pre-clinical curriculum, and I found it to be a very worthwhile exchange.
As a medicine resident, I feel I was quite well-prepared for internship and residency by the Duke curriculum. Getting out of the classroom sooner is a HUGE advantage. That's where all the real learning happens in medicine. And when you take step one during the 3rd year you'll have a much better context within which to put all the vignettes. Although the exam tests "basic science" content, most of the questions are framed within a clinical context. It's just the final part of the question stem that gets at the basic science knowledge, but if you know a bit about clinical medicine and lab tests you can often figure things out more easily by gleaning other info from the question stem that you wouldn't recognize if you hadn't been on the wards. Plus, the flexibility of the third year is unheard of at just about any other school.
Duke rocks!
As others have mentioned, the first year at Duke is longer than other schools, as there's no 3-month summer break (but there's plenty of vacation time...no worries). I preferred this because I didn't have to worry about finding a lab to work in or a summer job. But it also means that when you're comparing Duke to other schools, you need to realize that it's 11 months vs. ~18-20 months, not 1 year vs. 2 years. In addition, the topics covered in those 11 months at Duke are basically the topics that other schools cover in their first 14 months or so, because the first 2 years are NOT actually all "basic science" in most curricula. Other schools spend a sizeable amount of time during their 2nd years covering pre-clinical topics like radiology, dermatology, orthopedics, ophthalmology, etc. etc. These are things that are just not covered extensively in the pre-clinical curriculum at Duke, and for good reason...you learn these things best in the context of real patients, on the wards. Plus, this stuff isn't even on the boards, it's just meant to better prepare you for your time on the wards. Cutting these topics out is one of the biggest ways Duke is able to shorten the pre-clinical curriculum, and I found it to be a very worthwhile exchange.
As a medicine resident, I feel I was quite well-prepared for internship and residency by the Duke curriculum. Getting out of the classroom sooner is a HUGE advantage. That's where all the real learning happens in medicine. And when you take step one during the 3rd year you'll have a much better context within which to put all the vignettes. Although the exam tests "basic science" content, most of the questions are framed within a clinical context. It's just the final part of the question stem that gets at the basic science knowledge, but if you know a bit about clinical medicine and lab tests you can often figure things out more easily by gleaning other info from the question stem that you wouldn't recognize if you hadn't been on the wards. Plus, the flexibility of the third year is unheard of at just about any other school.
Duke rocks!
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It's a shade under 25%, I believe.
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according to my book its 25% of out of state interviewees and only 9% of instate interviewees. But thats because they interview 60% of instate applicants and only 17% of out of state applicants.
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I don't believe so. From the website:
Source: http://www.gms.edu.sg/index.php?Admissions/FAQs#MD_Program
If they werent considered IMGs, they wouldn't need to go through ECFMG certification. Duke is just trying to sell the school, but don't for a second think that this program will be considered and LCME accredited school.
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nah, I turned in my application with 10 days to spare, my boyfriend turned his in with 2 days until the deadline and we both got in (well, I got in after a brief stint on the waitlist, but either way, you're fine).
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Ahh, I stand corrected. It wasn't open until this year anyway so I was just making an educated guess. A poorly educated guess, maybe like an inner city public guess, but an educated guess nonetheless.
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Still, the sooner the better. Duke often literally fills all of its interview slots, so if you wait until too late you may get stuck with just a regional interview and not get to actually visit the campus. Get it in as soon as you can!
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That's true...my boyfriend would've gotten stuck with a regional interview if his region hadn't been Durham, NC.
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Little note of encouragement to those working on secondaries:
It seems that Duke pulls your file and sets you aside for an interview before you complete the secondary. But they will not extend the invite UNTIL you submit. I submitted on a Friday afternoon and heard back the next Monday with the invite. If I had completed sooner, I think I would have gotten an earlier interview (unless I am mistaken about this theory). So, finish up those secondaries and you could get an interview when they next extend them.
It seems that Duke pulls your file and sets you aside for an interview before you complete the secondary. But they will not extend the invite UNTIL you submit. I submitted on a Friday afternoon and heard back the next Monday with the invite. If I had completed sooner, I think I would have gotten an earlier interview (unless I am mistaken about this theory). So, finish up those secondaries and you could get an interview when they next extend them.
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Any idea why Duke interviews 4x the # of kids they accept? Do you guys think that interviews hold more weight at schools like Duke, Yale, & Harvard who interview a large # of applicants compared to schools like JHU, Pritzker, & UCSF who only interview 2-3x the # of accepted students?
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My school sends out paper LOR. On the secondary application site, they asked you to not send out paper LOR until you've been invited for an interview. I was invited last week, so am I suppose to send it in now or wait until they've asked me?
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I believe this is a myth of the Duke interview for the most part. Very few people that I know actually had an "ethics" interview. I wouldn't sweat it too much...if you get ethics questions, just remember to take a stance but understand where the other size is coming from. And if you have no idea what to say, just follow the laws of the state and I don't think they can penalize you.
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I interviewed at Duke in October and they told me that they read your essays before iniviting you, so the store your application until you submit your application theory is a myth. Also, I didn't get any ethical questions during my two interviews.
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This is definitely quite true. Each interview is scored on a numbered scale, and if you don't average a certain minimum score after your two interviews then your application literally doesn't even get reviewed by the committee. In other words, a non-stellar interview at Duke pretty much equals rejection. No exaggeration...there are always people with 40's on their MCAT who get rejected based solely on their interview performance. The interview is quite important at Duke, and they're looking for pretty specific things. That's why Duke interviews so many applicants compared to many schools.
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My "ethics" question was this long drawn out what would you do scenario. I think, in the end, my interviewer was more interested in WHY I gave my answer than what I chose, so I would just be sure to think about your answer for a minute, and PLAN what you're going to say before you just start talking out loud. And I only had that one ethics question, the rest of the questions were just about my application and my interests.
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Just call, the people in admissions are generally very nice.
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Ahh, it was more a guess of my own than a true myth, but that is helpful to know. Thanks.
Additional thanks to whichever committee members spent Friday/Saturday afternoons to read through all ~8 single-spaced pages of my secondary app.
