Letter of recommendation after one day of shadowing

[ChemCrazy]

Greetings everyone,
After an embarrassingly long time contacting hospitals and clinics, I found someone to shadow. He was confused about what shadowing is and why anyone would want to sit around looking at the computer screen all day with him (radiologist). I showed excitement and all and it's happening Monday. But from his personality and common courtesy, I can't tell if it's appropriate to ask for a LOR after such a short period.

If I decide to get ballsy, which is more important to ask: a LOR or a reccomdation for other specialists I can shadow?

Write now I only have 1 letter from my research PI and one from a professor I'm sort of close with. I'm not sure if the quality of the latter.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ortnakas]

The latter. You need a good letter and good shadowing experience (no offense to radiologists because we need them, but the kind where you see the physician actually interact with the patient) more than you need what sounds like will be a mediocre letter.

 

[deleted781806]

To justify an MD letter of recommendation you'd really need to have a more long-term relationship with that physician, one-day is definitely not enough time spent with someone for them to write you a strong recommendation. Also, apparently MD letters are not really recommended by many AdComs on SDN (DO letters are must though if you are applying to DO schools), so it might be better to search elsewhere for another LoR anyways.

 

[auferstehen92]

No offense, but I frankly astonished at your careless and almost entitled approach to receiving an LOR. How could you possibly think a physician would be able to contribute an important component of your application to medical school after knowing you for just 1 day? How could you expect that of anyone?

Do you think this whole process is a game?

 

[ChemCrazy]

more than you need what sounds like will be a mediocre letter.

You are probably right. I feel asking for a LOR would feel a bit entitled. I really did wish more places were willing. I've been on the receiving end- a patient with more people in the room than I was comfortable with, so I understand the concern. But from some of these interactions, I sense a general unwillingness to even give pre-meds a chance. Maybe some bad experiences.

@Écureuil I love your name. I am not used to seeing French here. I appreciate your advice. I am usually a quality of quantity person, but without a 3rd letter and only 3 months to get one, I'm starting to get desperate.

@auferstehen92 I mentioned the entitlement. I just saw some posters say they got one after 4 hours, so I was genuinely asking if it was common enough practice that I should go for it.

 

[libertyyne]

Physician letters are genuinely considered unimportant in the grand scheme of things. You need 2 Science and 1 non science professor, unless your committee has other requirements. Work on that. That being said, I disagree with @ortnakas. I shadowed a radiologist and the radiologist in addition to reading interacted with patients during ultrasound. It was a great experience for me because it gave me a look into what the day of a radiologist looks like. Spend more time shadowing if the physician would have you and if you are interested.

 

[deleted781806]

Besides the whole 1-day = 1 LOR mentality problem that you might need to correct, I would also look towards shadowing primary care physicians rather than specialists. Definitely need to work on getting some more faculty letters as well, my school's committee required five separate letters (~4 faculty and 1 personal) before writing a cover letter.

I'm glad that you like my name, I thought it was very nice. It's my favorite word in French actually. But yeah definitely work on bolstering your LORs otherwise it might be necessary to wait a cycle to patch up your application a little better before applying.

 

[ortnakas]

@libertyyne-- I meant no disrespect to radiologists! There's definitely radiologists who interact with patients doing ultrasounds and whatnot, but OP mentioned this radiologist was surprised he/she would want to "look at the computer with him all day", which made me think he's not really that kind of radiologist. It could definitely still be a valuable experience, especially if OP is interested in rads, but a physician with more patient interaction would probably let OP get more out of shadowing and eventually maybe a better letter.

 

[ChemCrazy]

Thanks for all of the advice. I guess my attitude didn't come off well online. I am a super shy person who never asks for anything. I guess I got intimidated by the number of people here who just go for these things and think "the worst they can say is no". That isn't me and doing so would have caused 3 days of overthinking and anxiety.

I will make the most of my experience, read the situation, and see what's reasonable at the end of the day. Should I already have the thank you letter ready, in case it's one and done?

@gonnif I had checked my school's pre-health FAQs a while ago and it does not provide community letters. If you don't mind my asking, will this have a negative impact on me?

In case anyone is willing to answer- one of my school's deans was put with me as a mentor after my depression second year and knows me now even more than my mom. But that also means she knows about my pride, guilt, mental health problems, lack of motivation in certain classes, etc. We even do bible study together now that I've graduated. Would it be a conflict of interest for her to write me a LOR? Would it be too much pressure for her? I don't want to ruin our relationship by asking.

 

[OchemOficionado]

(DO letters are must though if you are applying to DO schools).

This is debatable though, right? I looked at a few school websites and they require a physician letter, preferably DO.

I'm hoping they understand that for some people it's impossible to get a DO letter. I mean, I could cold call and try to do the "shadow for a day and ask for letter" thing, but what a weak letter that would be!

 

[libertyyne]

well not having a pre health committee would make it difficult to get one from them. It wont hurt you under these circumstances. speak to your premed advisor before you reach the conclusion that they dont provide committee letters

Underrated comment.

 

[deleted781806]

This is debatable though, right? I looked at a few school websites and they require a physician letter, preferably DO.

I'm hoping they understand that for some people it's impossible to get a DO letter. I mean, I could cold call and try to do the "shadow for a day and ask for letter" thing, but what a weak letter that would be!

My understanding of the situation is that it *really* better have been an impossible task for you to not have an extensive experience with the field via shadowing a DO and getting a letter from them stating that you are passionate about osteopathic medicine. The school's generally put just a general physician letter in their requirements but it is a very strong recommendation that it comes from a DO instead of an MD. That's kind of the kicker for DO schools, is that you better be able to demonstrate you are interested in the field on your application instead of just using them as a backup program.

This is only what I've been told through my own advising office and some skimming on SDN, I'm very willing to retract my statements upon correction by someone who actually has a better clue.

 

[libertyyne]

This is debatable though, right? I looked at a few school websites and they require a physician letter, preferably DO.

I'm hoping they understand that for some people it's impossible to get a DO letter. I mean, I could cold call and try to do the "shadow for a day and ask for letter" thing, but what a weak letter that would be!

The osteopaths are in on it. I shadowed one for 4 hours and got a letter that he had me write and submit. I thought of it more as an interview. The DO asked me why DO etc.

 

[ChemCrazy]

I will set up an appointment and ask. I was a little surprised that we have a medical school, but no pre-health committee.

@JeSuisUnDoc I believe I can handle that type of stress. It's coming off as entitled with LORs. I am very critical, so I didn't even think the 2 years I had known my PI was long enough to ask for an LOR. I hate bothering people.

 

[ChemCrazy]

I shadowed one for 4 hours and got a letter that he had me write and submit.

There we go! I knew people were doing something of the sort. But I promise not to.

 

[libertyyne]

There we go! I knew people were doing something of the sort. But I promise not to.

The DO letter was a formality to apply to DO schools. I may have left out that I worked along side the physician for years. You are missing the forest for the trees. No one cares about physician letters and you need professor letters to get in.

 

[deleted781806]

The DO letter was a formality to apply to DO schools. I may have left out that I worked along side the physician for years. You are missing the forest for the trees. No one cares about physician letters and you need professor letters to get in.

For the sake of emphasis: Physician letters are chump-change (with the DO-formality exception), you really need to get those faculty letters sorted out though. A four-hour experience with a physician is only good for that strange formality that they all are cognizant of, but not for a standard LOR.

 

[ChemCrazy]

For the sake of emphasis: Physician letters are chump-change (with the DO-formality exception), you really need to get those faculty letters sorted out though. A four-hour experience with a physician is only good for that strange formality that they all are cognizant of, but not for a standard LOR.

Thank you! I just reached out to my old theater professor to catch up. Hopefully, something can come of that. If so, then I will finally be on track to doing things that I both enjoy and help my application, and not for the sake of rushing to have everything. I fear this would have resulted in careless mistakes and boxchecking, so I appreciate the (mostly) constructive criticism on this thread.

 

[OchemOficionado]

My understanding of the situation is that it *really* better have been an impossible task for you to not have an extensive experience with the field via shadowing a DO and getting a letter from them stating that you are passionate about osteopathic medicine. The school's generally put just a general physician letter in their requirements but it is a very strong recommendation that it comes from a DO instead of an MD. That's kind of the kicker for DO schools, is that you better be able to demonstrate you are interested in the field on your application instead of just using them as a backup program.

This is only what I've been told through my own advising office and some skimming on SDN, I'm very willing to retract my statements upon correction by someone who actually has a better clue.

I agree that it's a very strong recommendation. I'm just not sure it's an app killer as I see several folks getting in with just an MD letter. I have to keep reminding myself that everything we see on SDN isn't truly reflective of what happens in general. I'm just scared I guess. We'll see what happens.

The osteopaths are in on it. I shadowed one for 4 hours and got a letter that he had me write and submit. I thought of it more as an interview. The DO asked me why DO etc.

Haha, they're in on it 🙂 I volunteer for a huge hospital system and it's hard to come by a DO for me. I've looked up bios and know they're here, but it's impossible to get any doctor to respond to my emails. If I can't get a DO list together of about 10 schools that will take a MD letter, then in June I can start stalking and begging I guess 🙁 I don't live far from a DO school and there has to be DOs willing to help here.