Letters of Interest for Choices 2 and 3?

[Abby_Normal]

I initially took it as a given that I would send letters of interest to my second and third choice programs, something to the effect of "I am ranking you highly," however I've since heard mixed opinions on this. On the one hand, it seems like a good idea because I am very interested in them, and in the likely event I don't get my first choice (it's very competitive) I'd like to end up at 2 or 3, but I've also heard it's a bad idea because all programs hear when they read "am ranking you highly" is "not first."
Thoughts?

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[physicsnerd42]

Don't do it. All "I'm ranking you highly" means is "I'm not ranking you #1". Also, those emails at most programs won't affect your rank.

The match algorithm works as it's supposed to when the program and applicant rank their respective lists based on their own preferences (and not how the opposite party ranks them). It's likely most PDs understand this, which is why the pre-match communication shouldn't really matter that much.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wouldn't. If you aren't going to tell them I'm ranking you number 1, don't bother. They will read ranked highly as "not my first choice". Better to say nothing. Even if you did say "I'm ranking you number 1" they probably have been burned enough that they won't believe you. The best course is to probably express interest to anyone you know at the program (alumni, contacts, through thank you notes, etc) but just not try to play the "how will I rank you" game.

 

[dyeguy21]

How would you feel if someone ranked you #2? How about #3?

And there's your answer.

 

[Escherichia]

How would you feel if someone ranked you #2? How about #3?

And there's your answer.

I would personally jump for joy if my #1 program (2 spots) ranked me #2... 😉

 

[dyeguy21]

How about if your SO ranked you #2 then spoil sports.

 

[ProEra]

I've heard of people phrasing things a little differently. Some people will send letter to their #2 and #3 by saying I am planning on ranking you "at the top of my list". However, even this seems disingenuous to me if you dont subsequently rank that program #1. Any thoughts?

 

[Law2Doc]

I've heard of people phrasing things a little differently. Some people will send letter to their #2 and #3 by saying I am planning on ranking you "at the top of my list". However, even this seems disingenuous to me if you dont subsequently rank that program #1. Any thoughts?

Still sounds too much like playing games, and telegraphs " not number one"

 

[mcl]

Still sounds too much like playing games, and telegraphs " not number one"

Agreed. An email that doesn't say "You are my first choice" implies "I'd rather be elsewhere." That said, in a perfect world it wouldn't make your placement on the ROL drop anymore than sending a "You are my first choice" email would make your placement rise.

While I know every program is different and it may matter a great deal to some, I don't think we are really outside the norm. When we get a "Your are my first choice" email from an applicant farther down on our list, we don't move them up--we just think that if we go down that far, we'll still be OK. When we get an "I'm ranking you highly" email from someone higher on our list, we don't drop them because we know that not everyone gets their first choice and we thought they were a good fit for our program.

 

[ChessMaster3000]

what about sending an email just stating your interest, and thanking them for the interview? you dont have to even mention that youre "ranking them highly". just talk about how you enjoyed learning about the program and that you're really interested--it's all honest, genuine, and lets them know you havent forgotten about them? anyone advocate for that kind of email?

 

[Chicago2012]

It won't make an iota of difference in your ranking

Actually, when described like that, it sounds like just your basic thank you letter (thanks for the interview, I'm interested, here's why, and here's why I'm awesome), which we've seen on the forums here has a rather variable effect on ranking
.

 

[Chicago2012]

I certainly have. There was a discussion a few days ago regarding just that here on the General Residency Issues forum. The discussion basically ended that some programs use it to move people around in their ROL but that some don't use it at all to do that.

 

[Chicago2012]

That's the exact one, and it began

Programs differ. Thank you notes don't have any affect on the ROL at my program, but another coordinator in my specialty once told me that she expects notes as a courtesy and not receiving one makes an applicant drop on her program's ROL (although she didn't say by how much). If a program tells you how much they like receiving notes/feedback/post-interview contact, I'd recommend sending something. If you feel weird about not sending a note, then send one. If it's been a while since your interview, you can couch it in terms of having recently completed your interviews. If, however, the program has said that thank you notes are not necessary or expected then you can safely pass. If a program didn't stipulate (I have yet to have an interview date where someone didn't ask during our final question/answer wrap-up-the-interview-day session), then follow your instinct.

I still think its the courteous thing to do, but in some cases the effect is probably minimal to nonexistent.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

That's the exact one, and it began



I still think its the courteous thing to do, but in some cases the effect is probably minimal to nonexistent.

My surgery program once brought out all the cards and whatnot that were sent from applicants and dumped it on the table. We were welcome to read it, but it had absolutely zero impact on ranking. We didn't even track who did or didn't send one. I think the only type of communication that might have some sway is a personal phone call from your mentor to the program to encourage your selection. That would go far more than some generic thank you note/letter that will sound like pretty much every other one.

 

[Chicago2012]

My surgery program once brought out all the cards and whatnot that were sent from applicants and dumped it on the table. We were welcome to read it, but it had absolutely zero impact on ranking. We didn't even track who did or didn't send one. I think the only type of communication that might have some sway is a personal phone call from your mentor to the program to encourage your selection. That would go far more than some generic thank you note/letter that will sound like pretty much every other one.

HA!

 

[Law2Doc]

That's the exact one, and it began



I still think its the courteous thing to do, but in some cases the effect is probably minimal to nonexistent.

It is courteous and you should do it for that reason. But it's not going to move you up or down significantly. Probably won't come up unless you really flub -- ie you accidentally address your letter to a different program or PD.

 

[Chicago2012]

Exactly

 

[Geekchick921]

On a related topic, my second choice program encouraged second looks but we can't afford it, especially considering how likely it is that we're moving for residency. Do you think it's worth it to send them a message about how much I like the program/they're one of my favorites but we couldn't swing the trip?

 

[tiedyeddog]

On a related topic, my second choice program encouraged second looks but we can't afford it, especially considering how likely it is that we're moving for residency. Do you think it's worth it to send them a message about how much I like the program/they're one of my favorites but we couldn't swing the trip?

I was wondering the same thing. Also, how does doing a second look alter your rank at most programs? Does it change your chances at most programs?

 

[rmcray08]

I encourage everyone with this question to take a peek at the NRMP data posted on their site, specifically the "Results of the 2014 NRMP Program Director Survey", as it has a lot of valuable information regarding what program directors say they use to rank applicants. While the general consensus here seems to be "don't do it, it doesn't matter," in the report, program directors ranked "other post-interview contact" an average of 3.9 on a 5 point scale of importance in ranking decision. Compare that to AOA status, which they rank collectively as a 4.0 of 5. It breaks this data down by specialty in the later pages of the report. I found it to be an interesting and helpful read.

 

[rmcray08]

This is where it is important not just to look at the result, but also the methodology.

For one, the spread on that likert scale is super tight. About the lowest ranked any factor is is a 3.5 out of 5.

For two, you need to look at the left side of thgraph = "% of respondents citing factor" - only 1/3 of PDs even responded that they consider this a factor at all (as opposed to say interview interactions, where 93% of PDs responded that they consider this a factor).

Good catch. I was looking at the numbers with a bit of tunnel vision, I suppose.

 

[dyeguy21]

For one, the spread on that likert scale is super tight. About the lowest ranked any factor is is a 3.5 out of 5.

And the likert scale claims another victim.